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2 years ago ::
Sep 07, 2011 - 10:58PM
#11
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Date Joined:
Aug 21, 2009
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5's would be cool if they invented a d20 in increments of 5 instead of the tokens to track damage. In the last mini game we always ran out of damage tokens when we played. Tonight we were tracking with d10's and d20's on the creature cards and it was so easy to keep track of damage. Creatures with 65 hit points that require 13 damage tokens is going to take constant checking to count how many chips you have when calculating damage. Unless of course they are creating 10 and 20 damge tokens to go with all the 5's. But ultimately those will wear out where the d20 never would. Seems a little more sustainable in the long run as well as cardboard tokens fade, wear, and detoriate faster than the die would.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 08, 2011 - 5:38AM
#12
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Good point about counting tokens. I didnt have any tokens anyway so I just wrote on a sticky note what the current hit points were which worked fine.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 09, 2011 - 11:12PM
#13
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Date Joined:
Oct 17, 2007
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In addition to the "feels more like D&D" reason, there's also the fact that human beings see bigger numbers as better. It's utterly irrational, but it works.
DDM dealt damage in denominations of 5.
SWM dealt damage in denominations of 10.
Duelmasters had creature powers in denominations of 500!
Personally, I like the 1 to 1 ratio Magic: The Gathering uses, but I can understand if my mild rational disapproval of the numbers must be overshadowed by the threat of loud irrational disapproval of Chicken-Littles.
'I have had players complain about having extra rares in a pack. I’ve had players complain about getting free things. I have had players complain because they liked something “too much”.' - Mark Rosewater's Twitter, May 7th, 2013
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2 years ago ::
Sep 16, 2011 - 10:29AM
#14
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1s or 10s would make it easier to count. That's what I'd like to see since although I *did* learn my x5 tables, it was a LONG time ago. Providing special dice in increments of 5s (d20 counting from 5 to 100!) would about 1000 kinds of WIN, but I suspect that the costs of providing two dozen of those in the game box would be prohibitively expensive. There *should* be a bunch of cardboard chits marked 5, 10, and 20 (or maybe 25, depending on the "average" HPs of beings) since I do *not* want to have to count too many of them to see how close an opponent's being is to finally being destroyed. I just want to glance and know. Ideally, they would use the shield tokens from Castle Ravenloft that are gold on one side and black on the other so that it's easy to tell when something is close to being destroyed.
What are peoples' favorite ways of handling this in DDM?
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2 years ago ::
Sep 16, 2011 - 10:36PM
#15
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Increments of 5 seemed fine for us. 1 would seem paltry and 10 artificially inflated.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 19, 2011 - 6:56AM
#16
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Date Joined:
Aug 12, 2009
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I definitely think changing to increments of 1 would be better. Ravenloft uses 1 hit point increments, which I think works quite well. I played the skirmish game with someone who did not come from an RPG background, and they found it baffling that hit points and damage were in increments of 5.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 19, 2011 - 2:39PM
#17
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Date Joined:
Oct 31, 2003
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I think that they should stay in multiples of 5.
I feel the D&D Skirmish-Like Board game will be a middle step between the Ravenloft/Ashardalon/Drizz't and the full D&D RPG game.
At one of my D&D Encounters sessions we had a new player who had only played Ravenloft and he couldn't believe Fargrim, Dwarf Fighter had 31 hit points vs Thorgrim's 4 HP.
For the old DDM we had a number of chits in 5, 10, 25, 50 etc. that came with the starters for tracking how many HP had been lost.
If WotC includes a sheet of those same chits with the cards I doubt it would raise the price much.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 19, 2011 - 6:37PM
#18
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What are peoples' favorite ways of handling this in DDM?
I always used a set of d6s. Each pip equals 5 damage. Very quickly, you adjust to the system and when you see a '6' on a monster, you instantly read it as 30 dmg.
I preferred dice for ease of use, but the 'best' way, particularly in tournaments, is dry-erase markers on sleeved cards. For tournaments that's better because dice can be bumped and you might not remember the game state.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 20, 2011 - 10:26AM
#19
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2004
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to us D&D'ers the greater HP makes it 'feel' better.
I think most D&D players actually want streamlined mechanics in the skirmish game. A fluff note in the rules mentioning skirmish HP are about 1/5th D&D HP would effectively do the same job. Compared to the other deviations from standard D&D already present in the game, such a change seems pretty minor vs. how big a deal it is to speed and simplicity.
Most of us here are probably pretty good at math and don't have to think much to convert multiple's of 5... but the brain shifting gears still creates an imperceptible lag that adds up in regard to setting the pace of the game. And if you are playing with someone that isn't so strong with math... fuhggedaboutit.
Having everything in multiple of 10's could work fine too (indeed, doubling the HP & dmg. of the playtest creatures would actually seem closer to the D&D that I'm used to playing).
Update: after trying this out, I'm still noticing a bit of a brain slowdown simply from working with high digit numbers. Communicating those higher numbers to my opponent still seemed cumbersome too. Put me down as preferring low numbers.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 20, 2011 - 10:50AM
#20
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Date Joined:
Jul 25, 2002
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This has been a really interesting decision. Damage by 1, 5 or 10 have different pros/cons:
Damage by 1 is easiest math, but it's the hardest to recognize on a card as damage and numbers feel small when compared to most D&D examples.
Damage by 5 is most familiar to old skirmish players and it is somewhat in line with the RPG, but the math is most difficult.
Damage by 10 is easier math than 5, is somewhat in line with the RPG, and is the easiest to recognize as a damage/HP number. (You won't get it mixed up with the level of a card or speed of a creature, for instance.) The numbers do feel artificially large.
Peter Lee
Tabletop Games Designer/Developer
Dungeons & Dragons R&D
Wizards of the Coast
Twitter: @minipete
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