8/6/2013 RC: "From the Vault: Twenty"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's ReConstructed, which goes live Tuesday morning on magicthegathering.com.

>My goal for this product: be awesome.

So, what happened?
So, this is FTV: Jace & Jank?

What happened to making it awesome WOTC?

Some cards I understand, some I don't.

It certainly doesn't bring the 20th birthday vibe.

Except the JTMS is a good reminder, that Wizards still sees us as neither players nor collectors but cash cows.
How excited Evan Erwin would be? Evan Erwin is excited about everything. When he sees that he still has some of his favorite cereal left to have for breakfast, the man jumps up on the table and fist pumps.

My sole satisfaction for this set comes from two points: More Igor Kieryluk art to collect (which will hopefully be cheap as people dump the slag to recover their investment in FtV: Jace, the Mindsculptor), and the fact that Gavin will not be in charge of another FtV set.
>My goal for this product: be awesome.

So, what happened?



This.  Somehow the only 2 cards in this box set worth talking about are both banned in Modern (not "not legal", I mean "legal and actually banned").  Which is yet another reason why Modern is stupid.

Anyway, this article read like this to me:

Dark Ritual: So we found the first ever tournament winner and asked about his deck.  He played Black Vise and Unholy Strength.  So we put Dark Ritual in the set.

Swords to Plowshares: This card has been reprinted a billion times.  So let's reprint it again.

Hymn to Tourach: Alright, here's the 3rd in your list of commons/uncommons worth around $2 that you can pick up at your LGS anyway, but this time WITH BRAND NEW ART!

Fyndhorn Elves: YAY MOAR COOB AERT GUYZ!!!!!

Impulse: And the next in the long list of $2 or less uncommons that you're going to have to pay $500 for is...a card that was played in, but had no real game-relevance in the deck piloted by one of the biggest cheaters of all time.  Let's all remember Mike Long and ProsBloom when we play the card that is neither Prosperity nor Cadaverous Bloom (nor Squandered Resources, which also would have been acceptable).  Hooray Reserved List!

Wall of Blossoms: Second in our list of cards chosen by relevance to the deck they were played in, is Wall of Blossoms representing RecSur, which, by the way, is Recurring Nightmare and Survival of the Fittest.  The Reserved List strikes again!  Have fun guys!

Thran Dynamo: When I think of Urza's Block, the first thing I think of is fast mana and Combo Winter.  And when I think of Fast Mana and Combo Winter, the first thing I think of is Tolarian - wait - Time Spi - er - Palin - damn - Thran Dynamo.  Yeah, that's the one I wanted.

Tanglewire: And here, we have the original MUD deck, featuring Metalworker, Tinker, and a bunch of broken artifacts.  We even have Rishadan Port, the defining card of Masques Block Standard, and the second-best mana denial land in Legacy.  But nope, here's some junk not playable outside of Cube and EDH.

Fact or Fiction: For those of you who don't have enough of the FNM new frame foil of this one, here's another one that looks EXACTLY THE SAME!  Also, this is to add to your collection of $2 uncommons you're paying $400 for.

Chainer's Edict: Aside from this being the 8th (!) card in this box set worth $2 or less, here's a card that was played in exactly 1 deck in exactly 1 format ever.  Once again, we could have given you Mirari's Wake to represent the block for which the Mirari WAS THE FREAKING EXPANSION SYMBOL, but instead here's some more junk.  We weere considering giving you all a foil Upheaval for your cubes, but that's banned in Commander, so here you go.

Akroma's Vengeance: And now, to represent the format which brought you "It's an Angel!  Kill it!", and even representing a deck which played said angel and played it as a 4-of, here's an overcosted board sweeper.  If you liked Planar Cleansing, hoo boy will you like this one.

Gilded Lotus: When I think of Mirrodin Block, I think not of the deck which was ported almost directlty from Block Constructed to Legacy and caused the largest set of Standard bannings in Magic's history.  No, I don't think of that at all.  I don't think of Arcbound Ravager, I don't think of Disciple of the Vault, I don't even think of the Artifact Lands or Cranial Plating.  I think of 5 mana ramp spells that were so expensive that they only saw play in formats where Urza block cards could power them out.  Oh and by the way, it has "Lotus" in the name.

Ink-Eyes: From the block that brought you Gifts Ungiven, Sensei's Top, and Umezawa's Jitte, here's a $5 rare that's been reprinted as a prerelease promo and in a Planechase deck.  You know, we really thought this could be Kokusho (also featured in this deck), but then we thought we'd rather piss off all of you who bought Modern Masters hoping to pull actual Modern staples by putting the dragons there instead.  So here's a giant middle finger for the rest of you too.

Char: Alright, this one I actually have nothing to complain about, the explanation for this was pretty good.  The card is stone unplayable, but it was a part of Magic history.

Venser, Shaper Savant: HEY LOOK!  THIS DECK HAS TARMOGOYF IN IT!  But you know what?  Let's NOT reprint the $150 card that's serving as the biggest barrier to entry for our new fledging format we want to popularize.  Instead, here's a card that's playable exactly nowhere.  Have fun guys!

Chameleon Colossus: From the block that brought you Bitterblossom, Vivid-Pool manabases, and "Profane Command all legal targets" comes...ANOTHER BULK RARE!  HOORAY!!!!!

Cruel Ultimatum: Again, this one is actually legit.

Jace, The Mind Sculptor: We wanted a Planeswalker, so we took the biggest Planeswalker we could find and threw it into the set, just to remind all of you how badly we screwed the pooch on our new mechanic.  We also needed an excuse to shove all these jank cards into this box set we're claiming costs $40 but we know will cost $400.  Also, we needed a way to print cards that aren't Standard legal, despite all our constant whining that we can never do such a thing.  So, by surprise magic, we have done the impossible, by reprinting Jace without making him Standard-legal! 

Green Sun's Zenith: Hey, remember that card we banned in Modern because it made green decks too good?  Here you go, more copies of that card you can't use in any format!  Oh, and about that "banned in Commander" excuse for Upheaval above, that was...er...yeah.  Ignore the man behind the curtain.  These are not the droids you're looking for.

Kessig Wolf Run: From the format that showed you how we can print 6/2 flying creatures with upside for 3 mana, here's...ANOTHER BULK RARE!  But it's relevant, we promise.  Up until now we've shown you 1st place decks (except for Char and Cruel, which were understandable), but to show you how awesome Wolf Run is, here's a deck THAT DIDN'T EVEN WIN THE TOURNAMENT!  How about that guys?

Thanks, Gavin.  Thanks.
build a five color deck with 40 from the vault

president obombya speaks anger prejudice and a time for US foreign air strike while the US worries about its rights

Let 'em burn [Frozen Parody]
I am satisfied as long as I can get one (or more!!) of those. The article and the history of MTG are truly awesome! Though I still wish there are Rishadan Port and Bitterblossom...
is there a land for each set ?

president obombya speaks anger prejudice and a time for US foreign air strike while the US worries about its rights

Let 'em burn [Frozen Parody]
>My goal for this product: be awesome.

So, what happened?



This.  Somehow the only 2 cards in this box set worth talking about are both banned in Modern (not "not legal", I mean "legal and actually banned").  Which is yet another reason why Modern is stupid.

Anyway, this article read like this to me:

Dark Ritual: So we found the first ever tournament winner and asked about his deck.  He played Black Vise and Unholy Strength.  So we put Dark Ritual in the set.

Swords to Plowshares: This card has been reprinted a billion times.  So let's reprint it again.

Hymn to Tourach: Alright, here's the 3rd in your list of commons/uncommons worth around $2 that you can pick up at your LGS anyway, but this time WITH BRAND NEW ART!

Fyndhorn Elves: YAY MOAR COOB AERT GUYZ!!!!!

Impulse: And the next in the long list of $2 or less uncommons that you're going to have to pay $500 for is...a card that was played in, but had no real game-relevance in the deck piloted by one of the biggest cheaters of all time.  Let's all remember Mike Long and ProsBloom when we play the card that is neither Prosperity nor Cadaverous Bloom (nor Squandered Resources, which also would have been acceptable).  Hooray Reserved List!

Wall of Blossoms: Second in our list of cards chosen by relevance to the deck they were played in, is Wall of Blossoms representing RecSur, which, by the way, is Recurring Nightmare and Survival of the Fittest.  The Reserved List strikes again!  Have fun guys!

Thran Dynamo: When I think of Urza's Block, the first thing I think of is fast mana and Combo Winter.  And when I think of Fast Mana and Combo Winter, the first thing I think of is Tolarian - wait - Time Spi - er - Palin - damn - Thran Dynamo.  Yeah, that's the one I wanted.

Tanglewire: And here, we have the original MUD deck, featuring Metalworker, Tinker, and a bunch of broken artifacts.  We even have Rishadan Port, the defining card of Masques Block Standard, and the second-best mana denial land in Legacy.  But nope, here's some junk not playable outside of Cube and EDH.

Fact or Fiction: For those of you who don't have enough of the FNM new frame foil of this one, here's another one that looks EXACTLY THE SAME!  Also, this is to add to your collection of $2 uncommons you're paying $400 for.

Chainer's Edict: Aside from this being the 8th (!) card in this box set worth $2 or less, here's a card that was played in exactly 1 deck in exactly 1 format ever.  Once again, we could have given you Mirari's Wake to represent the block for which the Mirari WAS THE FREAKING EXPANSION SYMBOL, but instead here's some more junk.  We weere considering giving you all a foil Upheaval for your cubes, but that's banned in Commander, so here you go.

Akroma's Vengeance: And now, to represent the format which brought you "It's an Angel!  Kill it!", and even representing a deck which played said angel and played it as a 4-of, here's an overcosted board sweeper.  If you liked Planar Cleansing, hoo boy will you like this one.

Gilded Lotus: When I think of Mirrodin Block, I think not of the deck which was ported almost directlty from Block Constructed to Legacy and caused the largest set of Standard bannings in Magic's history.  No, I don't think of that at all.  I don't think of Arcbound Ravager, I don't think of Disciple of the Vault, I don't even think of the Artifact Lands or Cranial Plating.  I think of 5 mana ramp spells that were so expensive that they only saw play in formats where Urza block cards could power them out.  Oh and by the way, it has "Lotus" in the name.

Ink-Eyes: From the block that brought you Gifts Ungiven, Sensei's Top, and Umezawa's Jitte, here's a $5 rare that's been reprinted as a prerelease promo and in a Planechase deck.  You know, we really thought this could be Kokusho (also featured in this deck), but then we thought we'd rather piss off all of you who bought Modern Masters hoping to pull actual Modern staples by putting the dragons there instead.  So here's a giant middle finger for the rest of you too.

Char: Alright, this one I actually have nothing to complain about, the explanation for this was pretty good.  The card is stone unplayable, but it was a part of Magic history.

Venser, Shaper Savant: HEY LOOK!  THIS DECK HAS TARMOGOYF IN IT!  But you know what?  Let's NOT reprint the $150 card that's serving as the biggest barrier to entry for our new fledging format we want to popularize.  Instead, here's a card that's playable exactly nowhere.  Have fun guys!

Chameleon Colossus: From the block that brought you Bitterblossom, Vivid-Pool manabases, and "Profane Command all legal targets" comes...ANOTHER BULK RARE!  HOORAY!!!!!

Cruel Ultimatum: Again, this one is actually legit.

Jace, The Mind Sculptor: We wanted a Planeswalker, so we took the biggest Planeswalker we could find and threw it into the set, just to remind all of you how badly we screwed the pooch on our new mechanic.  We also needed an excuse to shove all these jank cards into this box set we're claiming costs $40 but we know will cost $400.  Also, we needed a way to print cards that aren't Standard legal, despite all our constant whining that we can never do such a thing.  So, by surprise magic, we have done the impossible, by reprinting Jace without making him Standard-legal! 

Green Sun's Zenith: Hey, remember that card we banned in Modern because it made green decks too good?  Here you go, more copies of that card you can't use in any format!  Oh, and about that "banned in Commander" excuse for Upheaval above, that was...er...yeah.  Ignore the man behind the curtain.  These are not the droids you're looking for.

Kessig Wolf Run: From the format that showed you how we can print 6/2 flying creatures with upside for 3 mana, here's...ANOTHER BULK RARE!  But it's relevant, we promise.  Up until now we've shown you 1st place decks (except for Char and Cruel, which were understandable), but to show you how awesome Wolf Run is, here's a deck THAT DIDN'T EVEN WIN THE TOURNAMENT!  How about that guys?

Thanks, Gavin.  Thanks.



I understand most of your logic, but there is one point where you contradict yourself.  You mention that Gavin chose to reprint Venser instead of Good 'Ol Goyf and that angers you, but then later on in your argument you complain how shoving Jace in the set makes the set so much more expensive.  If Gavin did add Goyf instead of Venser I'm pretty sure you would be complaining how the product is going to cost $800 instead of being happy they added Goyf instead of a bulk rare like Venser.

The main point is that we all want different things in Magic and life in general.  Mark Rosewater always mentions that he tries to aim his product at the bulk of the crowd because trying to aim towards everyone's needs is impossible.  I'm sure there will be people out there that will buy this product and be perfectly content with it.  

I don't mean to cause an argument here, that's not my intention at all.  My point is that everyone's complaining just makes them sound whiny and irritating.  It's comparative to someone who hates pickles running around complaining about how much he hates pickles.  That person should just not eat pickles and then stop mentioning his hatred for the altered cucumber.  Likewise you should not buy this product and not worry about how this product wasn't aimed towards what you wanted.  Personally I would never buy this product, but I won't complain about it because I don't want to ruin the pleasure for the people that will enjoy it.

Sorry for the rant, but the constant complaining across the magic community is really starting to bug me.

I understand most of your logic, but there is one point where you contradict yourself.  You mention that Gavin chose to reprint Venser instead of Good 'Ol Goyf and that angers you, but then later on in your argument you complain how shoving Jace in the set makes the set so much more expensive.  If Gavin did add Goyf instead of Venser I'm pretty sure you would be complaining how the product is going to cost $800 instead of being happy they added Goyf instead of a bulk rare like Venser.

The main point is that we all want different things in Magic and life in general.  Mark Rosewater always mentions that he tries to aim his product at the bulk of the crowd because trying to aim towards everyone's needs is impossible.  I'm sure there will be people out there that will buy this product and be perfectly content with it.  

I don't mean to cause an argument here, that's not my intention at all.  My point is that everyone's complaining just makes them sound whiny and irritating.  It's comparative to someone who hates pickles running around complaining about how much he hates pickles.  That person should just not eat pickles and then stop mentioning his hatred for the altered cucumber.  Likewise you should not buy this product and not worry about how this product wasn't aimed towards what you wanted.  Personally I would never buy this product, but I won't complain about it because I don't want to ruin the pleasure for the people that will enjoy it.

Sorry for the rant, but the constant complaining across the magic community is really starting to bug me.




Well, it may be a contradiction, but once Jace is in, there's no going back, and you might as well go whole hog.

As for aiming it at collectors, I don't know about Ertai87, but I do know that I am supposed to be the target audience for this product. Everything about the hype excited me. I love Magic history, and I collect cards and paraphernelia that revolve around its big events (invitational cards, special playmats, promos of historically significant cards), and I am extremely disappointed with this product. I like a lot of the new art, but this set was knee-capped before it even began by the Reserved List, and somebody should have seen that and shut this debacle down before it even began. This article, whether genuine, naive enthusiasm, or just good old-fashioned spin, leaves a sour taste in my mouth, as it gives you entire lists of more interesting cards, a taunting glimpse at what could have been. And the disparity between Jace and everything else is so much salt in the wound. Additionally, and this is just a personal thing, I find the pandering nature of Jace and the "Ignite your spark" campaign he headlines to be revolting, so when I see him enshrined as one of the pinacles of magic history I realize what I thought was salt is actually white phosphor.

Essentially, I feel wronged. I've been interested in and excited for every FtV set so far (even Realms, though I'll admit the full list did cool my enthusiasm somewhat, I'd still be happy to own it), but this set is the first one that I'd rather not own. Like I said earlier, my only consolation is that people will buy it for Jace and ship the dross, meaning cheaper singles for me.
I love Impulse, but I hate this new art. Seems like a wasted opportunity. I also wish FtV wasn't foiled sometimes. It would be a neat way to bring back cards in the modern frame without foil being the only option. I'm all for foils in my EDH decks but in regular decks I just prefer to play all regular cards when possible.

If not for the reserved list, this would have been a really cool time to bring back Library of Alexandria or something like that.  Or maybe Tolarian Academy? I dunno. If you're gonna take on the attitude of 'who cares, let's just print some stuff' (indicated by the presence of JTMS), why not go all-out? Other than commitment to WotC's marriage to the reserved list (which really should be annuled), I can't think of any reason why Jace would be better.

I guess he's good for marketing. The author claims Jace is beloved but all I ever hear is moaning about what a ninny of a poster boy he makes for magic and how sick people are of him hogging the blue spot in the planeswalker rotation.

Anyway, something else that would have been really neat would have been to stick Serra Angel into this FtV - modern border, old art. Now that would have been sweet. Not worth much monetarily, but it would nostalgia the hell out of the older players. 
I feel a little sorry for Gavin. He seems like a nice guy, but FtV is in many respects a poisoned chalice.

Five years ago Wizards celebrated their 15th anniversary by reprinting (or, in the case of one card, future printing) 15 iconic dragons, nearly half with new art, in foil and in a collector box. I was in my local store and the store owner asked if I was interested. At this stage I still collected for the fun of collecting - after all, mythics hadn't come out yet - so I happily agreed to part with £20, the MSRP, for cards which were really for collector's pride rather than utility (c'mon, they're dragons - nobody actually plays dragons competitively). This was in the days before chase mythics, commander products, modern masters and other shameless cash grabs killed the collector in me. None of the cards were particularly valuable for what they did (Nicol Bolas, today the most vaulable card in the box, can be acquired in Time Spiral edition for about £1). None of this BS about thanking the retailers by handing them cash in the form of cardboard. This was a product just for the collectors.

Now in 2013 the product looks like this. Pick a theme, pick a reprintable card that sells for stupid money on the secondary market, package it in a box with other stuff and let the price gougers flog it for up to ten times the MSRP. Instacash.

I'm sorry to see such a lovely concept sullied in this pricegrabby way. 

Happy anniversary. What a difference five years makes.
Having a special anniversary product where all the value is concentrated in a single relatively recent card seems like a bizarre decision to me, and I don't really understand why it's been done.
I didn't think there could be something that would make me hate EDH more than its playerbase, but "we didn't put Upheaval because it's banned in commander!!1!" quite frustratingly does.

IMAGE(http://i1.minus.com/jbcBXM4z66fMtK.jpg)

192884403 wrote:
surely one can't say complex conditional passive language is bad grammar ?
Wouldn't be Magic without people bitching about it.
 (c'mon, they're dragons - nobody actually plays dragons competitively)



You mean like the Thundermaw Hellkite that Shahar played to win the World Championship this year?

 (c'mon, they're dragons - nobody actually plays dragons competitively)



You mean like the Thundermaw Hellkite that Shahar played to win the World Championship this year?




you know exactlly what I meant :p
I did, and I got your point. I just have to troll sometimes.  I understand your point as well. Personally I don't much like Jace, I don't play control after all. It's not my style. So this FTV really doesn't apeal to me. I do want to play M:tG at the higest competitive level I can so for me right now that means putting most of my resources into standard. That $40 (aka $400) could be put to buying useful singles like Liliana of the Dark Realms or other good stuff.  Hell, I could build a more than decent deck with that kind of money, I'm so used to building on a budget.

Anyway, something else that would have been really neat would have been to stick Serra Angel into this FtV - modern border, old art. Now that would have been sweet. Not worth much monetarily, but it would nostalgia the hell out of the older players. 



This sounds awesome! Let's find 15 classic cards that aren't on the reserved list and print them with the original original art in the new cardframe. I'm not a collector but this will make me one =). Release 2014.
18/20 cards in my cube.  WANT.  SO.  BAD.
B-b-but...isn't this what we all wanted?

1: Juzam Djinn
2: Mishra's Workshop
3: The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale (Would Mana Drain be too broken these days?)
4: Phyrexian Dreadnought
5: Intuition
6: Gaea's Cradle
7: Rishadan Port
8: Phyrexian Altar (My poor research show no major money cards from this year)
9: Vindicate
10: Goblin Piledriver
11: Stifle
12: Crucible of Worlds
13: Umezawa's Jitte (we just had Dark Confidant in MM, so stuff it)
14: Braid of Fire (Ravnica is just the dual lands, Dark Depths wasn't that much before Zendikar and FREE MANA!)
15: Thoughtseize (Not in MM, not in M14, not here. Wut?)
16: Rhys the Redeemed (AWESOME EDH TROLOLO)
17: Baneslayer Angel
18: Jace, the Mind Sculptor (no question here)
19: Snapcaster Mage (Lilly may be 50 bucks, but how can you have a modern blue without Snappy?)
20: Cavern of Souls (This or Thundermaw, but I guess Cavern is more versatile)

MSRP: $1,200
Actual retail price: Remember the 2008 bailout?

W/E, I'll get the normal FtV:20 anyways, if only for Jace and his stupid mug. Maybe Ink-Eyes. The rest can be traded for other stuff I want.

5: Intuition



The sad thing is, when I was still on the hype train, they revealed Impulse but I didn't look it up, I just assumed it was Intuition because I knew Intuition was a hugely powerful card. I mean, Impulse is far from awful, but c'mon, Wizards, step up your game.
Wow, it is so bad. Jace and the garbage.
Really my only disappointment is the art choice on Dark Ritual - it's from 5th edition and has been  reprinted several times including fairly recently.  This is a nostagia set - so the original would have been nice but really any other of the arts would have been better than this one. Love all the other new art and the art choice on Fact or Fiction.
for 1994 they went with swords that came out in 1993??
for 1996 they went with fyndhorn elves that came out in 1995??
how can the card impulse not be mother of runes?
and i wont even start on how much jace being in there pisses me off.
As this year went on, I was beginning to think WOTC was just going to slide past the anniversary so as not to draw attention to the fact that it was a 20 year old game. Then as we started to hear about their plans for celebrating the anniversary (crack-a-pack day, this overpriced mess), I'm beginning to wish they had ignored it.

This set should have been no more $20 and available in mass market retailers.  


(It really should have been the revealing that the Reserved List was going to be trashed and the cards we really want would be reprinted, but, well....) 
Proud member of C.A.R.D. - Campaign Against Rare Duals "...but the time has come when lands just need to be better. Creatures have gotten stronger, spells have always been insane, and lands just sat in this awkward place of necessity." Jacob Van Lunen on the refuge duals, 16 Sep 2009. "While it made thematic sense to separate enemy and allied color fixing in the past, we have come around to the definite conclusion that it is just plain incorrect from a game-play perspective. This is one of these situations where game play should just trump flavor." - Sam Stoddard on ending the separation of allied/enemy dual lands. 05 July 2013

My biggest disappointment was the power level of some cards over others. For instance Chainer's Edict over Pychatog, Pychatog was a much more era defining card that edict. I wish we were able to keep some flavor and an iconic feel to the set. I would have also preferred Lightning Helix over char because that was the pivotal and remember-able moment. I understand that balance and collector value is important. I would hope in the future that playability of cards would be used. Wall of blossoms was a great card but hasn't seen play in a long time. However, birds of paradise is still a playable card and much more expressing of magic's history. This would have been a great product if most of the cards saw play even if they weren't the highest of dollar value cards. For example, Dark Ritual and Swords to Plowshares are great additions because they are highly playable cards.

New art on something that's supposed to inspire nostalgia doesn't work for me.  Magic art now is all high quality, but also pretty much all the same.  I miss there being different styles and being able to recognize who had done a picture before seeing the artist line.
My goal for this product: be awesome.

erdana, sans-serif; color:#000000; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px">Or, perhaps, said less succinctly but more objectively: give players cards they love and want to both own and play with.


Yeah, so you make this a limited issue that stores horde and resell for insane markup, making it so your average player can't do more than dream of it.  Should either require stores sell it at MSRP or take out Jace.
Hi there!

I might not be quite aware of the way things work at the back of the shops but, do anyone knows why, if Wizards set the MSRP at around 40$, shops are allowed to sell it at more than 400$/3xx€ ?? I have just spoke with some vendors and they told me so.

I mean, that's way over 1000% of its value...

Do Wizards sell the product to the shops way over 40$ so they have to increase the prices in order to get their benefit, or they are just acting waaaaay too greedy and Wizards doesn't give a **** about their plans for the product, though they say they care...

I would gladly buy the box (even without Jace) for the right amount as a pure collector's item, but being things like they are, that's gonna be impossible.
This set is a joke.  There's no way that anyone is going to find one anywhere for its MSRP, which means the only people that are going to buy it are speculators that are simply buying it for the secondary value of Jace. 

The average value of these cards should have been 2 - 2.50, and they could have mass-produced them with little stories about the cards in the tournaments they won.  Cards like Psychatog would have been perfectly reasonable to print, and would have actually lent flavor to the set.  Dark Ritual, Swords to Plowshares, Hymn to Tourach are all fine choices, but the cards should have had gameplay stories surrounding them - stories that could have accompanied the box!  Instead they throw in Jace, put in a bunch of subpar cards, and know that they'll all sell out before they even go to print.  Stupid, worthless thinking on the part of everyone that was responsible for this.
I might not be quite aware of the way things work at the back of the shops but, do anyone knows why, if Wizards set the MSRP at around 40$, shops are allowed to sell it at more than 400$/3xx€ ?? I have just spoke with some vendors and they told me so.


Because a (mostly) free market economy says that you can't dictate to a product purchaser how much they are allowed to resell the product.  Wizards could choose to stop selling to that store's distributor(s) or to that store directly, but they don't have a method of legally forcing the price point the store sells at.

Wizards could sell directly, like they used to in their own WotC stores, but that experiment has already failed in meatspace.  (On MTGO, Wizards does sell directly).

I mean, that's way over 1000% of its value...


Its value is what people are willing to pay for it.  Wizards could saturate the market so that its value decreased, but the limited run has a real value of 1000% its MSRP if people are willing to buy it for that much.  That doesn't make the shops not greedy ****s, either, though.

Do Wizards sell the product to the shops way over 40$ so they have to increase the prices in order to get their benefit, or they are just acting waaaaay too greedy and Wizards doesn't give a **** about their plans for the product, though they say they care...


It's the latter.  But note that Wizards doesn't typically sell to the shops directly, they sell to distributors who sell to shops.  The player is already the third buyer of a product.  While Wizards might care by that point, they generally don't act like they care.

http://www.nogoblinsallowed.com — A functioning forum

Thanks a lot EternalUnreality! That was just what I was really thinking,

So it seems like the only way to stop this would be to not buy anything that supprases the MSRP for that much wich... obviously is never going to happen : /

In times like this is when quitting magic comes to my mind...
Hey, at least Thran Dynamo isn't on the Reserved List. And since it's banned everywhere, despite the unattainable MSRP of From the Vault (20 cards, not just 15!) presumably its limited print run will ensure that existing copies aren't too badly disturbed in value.

Given the near-impossibility of obtaining FTV at the MSRP, most Magic players aren't going to care all that much what gets printed in it. Still, some collectors will like it, and it provides an opportunity for them to subsidize the existence of the brick-and-mortar stores that let the rest of us play FNM and so on.

So it's hard for me to be too excited or even positive about FTV; if anything, it's an annoyance. If anyone who wanted could pre-order one copy of FTV at MSRP directly from Wizards, then I'd respect the product more. But I understand that it serves a useful purpose, so I can't blame Wizards for having it.

Coming up with weird ideas to make everyone happy since 2008!

 

I have now started a blog as an appropriate place to put my crazy ideas.

Wow... This is so bad. Most cards here are already easy to get, aren't defining an era in Magic's history AT ALL and have generic art. Fyndhorn elves? Swords to plowshares? Wall of blossoms? Thran dynamo??? Ugh, might aswell call the set "FTV: Jace the Mindsculptor emptying his trash bin". the Jace addition only makes it worse, since it's such an obvious disparity in value and a obvious money grab.

Not to mention the new art for Diabolic edict and Hymn to Tourach are so generic... Both of the old ones were much more grim and fitting for such black cards. 

This is so bad. Any random magic player would put up a better list. Just sad. 
Hi everyone!

Thanks for all of your feedback. As the lead on From the Vault, I'm constantly working to make the future ones even better A lot of you have left notes saying that you don't like the contents of this box - I'd be interested more in specifics of what is bothering you about it.

A few of you have mentioned many of the early cards not encapsulating Magic's history well enough, which is interesting to me because cards like Swords to Plowshares, Dark Ritual, mana elves, Hymn, Wall of Blossoms, etc, all feel like staple cards of the game that are hallmarks of the era. Even today, these cards are sought after by players and used in Vintage/Legacy and Commander/Cube. (And foil versions of these cards are especially sought after, which is odd to me considering the jank claim some of you have made.)

Anyway, I'd be curious for some more in depth detail. Please, let me know what you think - and the more specifics, the better.
Hi everyone!

Thanks for all of your feedback. As the lead on From the Vault, I'm constantly working to make the future ones even better A lot of you have left notes saying that you don't like the contents of this box - I'd be interested more in specifics of what is bothering you about it.

A few of you have mentioned many of the early cards not encapsulating Magic's history well enough, which is interesting to me because cards like Swords to Plowshares, Dark Ritual, mana elves, Hymn, Wall of Blossoms, etc, all feel like staple cards of the game that are hallmarks of the era. Even today, these cards are sought after by players and used in Vintage/Legacy and Commander/Cube. (And foil versions of these cards are especially sought after, which is odd to me considering the jank claim some of you have made.)

Anyway, I'd be curious for some more in depth detail. Please, let me know what you think - and the more specifics, the better.



How about the fact it has jace in it. that makes it sell for around $250 and people will only buy it to get the jace. regular playes cant afford it and instead of being about the history of magic its just a way to sell a foil jace.
Hi everyone!

...

Anyway, I'd be curious for some more in depth detail. Please, let me know what you think - and the more specifics, the better.




Hi, Lesurgo!

I suspect the biggest complaints you'll find are these:

1.) Some of the cards (Fyndhorn Elves) aren't terribly exciting because there are so many functional reprints out there already. They might prefer something more unique from a premium product - maybe Urza's Bauble from the same deck.

2.) Some of the cards (Jace, the Mind Sculptor) compound the exclusive nature of the From The Vault series to make the whole product unattainable by most people.

3.) Some of the cards (Chainer's Edict) some players may prefer to have been other cards from the same year (Psychatog). I have no strong feelings on most of them, but you'll hear it.
jace would be good in a blue deck

i am happy with my bone dancer

president obombya speaks anger prejudice and a time for US foreign air strike while the US worries about its rights

Let 'em burn [Frozen Parody]