First point system build ever

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Ok the build you see is my first point system build ever. I used a 40 point system and I know some people are having heart attacks right now. But give mea break it is a step in what some or most of you would call the right direction. Plus this build will be the FIRST EVER IN AY GAME SYSTEM that I have a negative in a modifier. Now I know people are going to be critical of the build and that is ok and  would love your input if it is helpfull If you are going to say it sucks and leave it at that then please keep on walking.


The Plan: The plane is touse Con to AC have high HP and do some good damage while having high saves and chanesto make saves if fail.

The Lay out: Chaotic Good Goliath Barbarian, Ranger,Stoneblessed (dwarf) Deep Warden Holy liberator, Eldeen Ranger. Level 16 there is no levelbuy out so the goliathcounts against me


Lv1 Barbarian: Feat Auspisiuos marking 
LV2 Ranger: Fav Eneny Giants track 
Lv3 Stoneblessed Stonebond    Feat endurance
Lv4 Stoneblessd: Racial battle Techniques
Lv5 Stoneblessed: Stoneborn gain +2 con considered dwarf
Lv6 Deep Warden Track (prereq for Eldeen ) Feat Iron Will
Lv7 Deep Warden: Stone Warden add Con to AC in place ofDex
Lv8 Holy Liberator
Lv9 Holy Liberator  feat Marking of the blessed roll 2 D20 pick highest one for a save do ths 3/day
Lv10 Holy Liberator
Lv11 Holy Liberator Divine grace add cha to saves
Lv12 Eldeen Ranger Feat steadfast determination
Lv13 Eldeen Ranger
Lv14 Eldeen Ranger Unerthly grace add cha to saves 
Lv15 open right now


Stats after levels andracial adjustments

Str 21 Dex 8 Con 22 int 10 Wis 14 Cha 16

eldeen ranger is from eberron campaign setting and will haeto get cleared from DM but this is the idea.         





                                   
As the saying goes "the best defense is a good offense", and the sooner you can take an opponent out of the fight, the less time they have to do anything harmful.

You're focusing a lot on the defenses in what you're describing, but what are you putting towards your attack abilities apart from being a goliath barbarian?

The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Fulminating Crab, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome LurkerIronglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
Yeah, I would highly recommend picking up Power Attack at a minimum, so that you can at least put out enough damage to have enemies consider you a threat.  Otherwise they might just ignore you.

You've also got a surprisingly low Strength, considering that you've got an insanely high point buy and are playing a race that gets a massive Strength bonus.

Since Dex doesn't drive AC, I'd not put any points into it at all, and allow yourself to sink to a Dex of 6.  You can also probably afford to drop Wisdom a bit, as well, especially since Steadfast Determination means you're not worried about lowering your Will saves.  You should really be focusing almost exclusively on Strength and Constitution here.

If you really want Divine Grace twice, why not drop the four levels of Holy Liberator and just take two levels of Paladin of Freedom?  That will free up two otherwise dead levels, as well as allowing you to drop Iron Will.
Well three reason 1 the book it comes from is not allowed 2 by DM decree all paladins will be lawful 3 just did up the saves and a REF 12 is going to get me nothing but dead. Back to the drawing board and droping DEX to 6 would be a REF OF 11 NOT GOING TO GET OUT OF THE WAY OF ANY FIREBALLS THAT WAY and a -1 to initiative yeah not good point system you are almost dead to me.
...seriously?  Let's do some math here.

A fireball does, at maximum, 60 points of damage.  (On average, a fireball will do 35 points of damage, but still, let's assume the worst.)

Raising your Dex bonus by one point gives you a +5% chance of reducing that damage to half.  Even if we assume max damage, that means that there's a 5% chance you'll reduce the damage taken by 30.  That means that raising your Dex by a point is effectively worth 1.5 hit points.  (And only if you're actually targeted by said fireball.)

Raising your Con bonus by one point, on the other hand, boosts your AC, your Fort save, your Will save, and gives you 15 HP.  So not only does it generate ten times as many effective hit points than raising Dex, it also boosts all of your other defenses.  Including, again, Fort and Will.  You know what happens when you fail a Reflex save?  You take an extra 30 points of damage.  You know what happens when you fail a Fort or Will save?  You DIE, or you start killing your party.

Reflex can be important, but it's by far the least important saving throw.  And when you're using point buy, and you have one ability score that boosts 75% of your defenses and also your HP total, and you want to be defensive, that's the score you want to really focus on.
If you fail a Reflex save, you usually take some energy damage (and unless you have fewer than 3.5 hit points per level remaining, this is unlikely to do much more than singe you). You can also completely negate common energy damage types fairly cheaply through equipment.

If you fail a Fortitude or Will saving throw, you're probably out of the encounter, or at the very least damaged in some more troubling way.

Dexterity matters for a lot of things, most prominently Initiative (and, if you're a melee lock, the Combat Reflexes feat). However, Reflex save bonuses are the least important thing Dexterity contributes towards. If you wish to raise Reflex for whatever reason, there are much more cost-effective ways to do it than raising Dexterity - particularly if little else in your build relies on Dexterity. (The same thing can be said for initiative, actually, but not all of the better +Initiative items are in your allowed books.)

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

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These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style))

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

[RT] Something for Everyone: A.K.A. The Last Sorcerer RT Will Ever Build (Caster, Damage, Trapscout, Takedowns)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

Fireball's not the problem, Grease and Resilient Sphere are the problem, but they're not even that bad.


Go with Slagger's Advice. You can be dumb and tough, but you gotta do it right. See Captain Constitution. You need a way to make the bad guys dead or they will make you dead, period, no matter how tough you are.
The captain build is OUT as it uses a class in a book that is so fare out of the game it will never see the light of day. There no other way to do this either so I start over or retool the build a little. The fort save not an issue REF 12 and will not much better at 16 the fort is 23 or something like that numbers like that in REF AND WILL then we have something.
Which books are in?
Here we go again
PHB PHB2 MINITURE RACES OF STONE ALL THE COMPLETE EXCEPT CHAMPIONS RACES OF THE WILD (JUST ADDED) EXPANDED PSIONICS FORGOTTEN REALS RACES OF FAEURN ( SOON TO BE ADDED MIC AND SPELL COMPENDIUM ) ARCANE EVOLVED 3RD PARTY BOOK WHEEL OF TIME SETTING RITUALS AND RELICS 2

Sorry about the CAPS did not notice till it was to late
We can work with that. You should just copy/paste that or make it a spoiler in your sig if you only play with one party.
Even then, when we link to a build, we don't mean "Play this exactly". We mean "Look here for useful tricks that you might be able to borrow". 

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style))

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

[RT] Something for Everyone: A.K.A. The Last Sorcerer RT Will Ever Build (Caster, Damage, Trapscout, Takedowns)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

I have done what I can with the crap he has given us and using the point systems to try something new even with the others having crazy stats which is going to make mine look like a little child next to a giant
A fellow player of mine built something like this the other way around.

He started with a Dwarf and then went Totemist2, Stoneblessed(Goliath)3 and then got the Barbarian1 with Goliath ACF mountain Rage. Then some Fighter2, Battle Rager5 and Deep Warden2, then Tribal Protector.

I'm not sure why he did that last one.

It might give you some ideas.

Also: Your posts are very hard to read.

5e should strongly stay away from "I don't like it, so you can't have it either."

 

I once asked the question (in D&D 3.5) "Does a Druid4/Wizard3/ArcaneHierophant1 have Wildshape?". Jesse Decker and Andy Collins: Yes and the text is clear and can't be interpreted differently. Rich Redman and Ed Stark: No and the text is clear and can't be interpreted differently. Skip Williams: Lol, it's worded ambiguously and entirely not how I intended it. (Cust. Serv. Reference# 050815-000323)

At least 2 of those classes can not be used as they are in books that are not allowed
At least 2 of those classes can not be used as they are in books that are not allowed



Even then, when we link to a build, we don't mean "Play this exactly". We mean "Look here for useful tricks that you might be able to borrow". 



Okay... I'll try and be VERY clear on this. If you want to play an effective melee character you need to either disable opponents with stuff like Three Mountains (and trickery to get your DC high), AOO Tanking, etc, OR kill it REALLY fast like with a Ubercharger. The advice people are giving boils down to just that.

So if we say your build needs work and quote some examples of good builds, what we're saying is consider what your build is actually DOING in a fight (which in your case is an inadiquit amount of damage). And then look at what the builds in question are doing, and try to figure out how to transition form A, to B.

Being tough as nails is GREAT in D&D, but isn't doing anyone in your party any good if you can't also make the bad guys dead. There are very few ways to force a bad guy to attack you, none of them are unavoidable. They're also not accomplishing anything unless you've got some trick like Robilar's Gambit to make it so you hit them back, and even that won't work on every opponent because not all of them will melee you (most won't with some DM's).

From what options you have consider Psychic Warrior, or some sort of Ur-charger (you won't have Pounce* which hurts but not ALL that much). 

You're worried about an ability array that most of us consider arbitrarily high, even in a setting where your other PC's are demigods or what have you, it's not hard to compete. A good charger build will WRECK any PC of the same level if allowed to charge them, likewise any monster can consider itself splatter.

I guarantee you if you play a character that follows the theory of "As long as I'm DOING something to the enimies, or to aid my allies each round, I'm winning" you'll have a good time playing. If you're building or playing a character that isn't functioning that way, you'll be spending rounds feeling completely inadiquate. With a 40 point buy you can qualify for just about any feat you want and still have impressive primary stats for melee. Just make sure you're never wasting precious resources when you don't need to be (ability points, feats, levels).

You want a build that's legit in your game? Consider this.

Orc or Dwarf are fine for race but I'm sure there are better options I'm missing (If you go Orc or Half Orc you can use the Ranger dip I mention below for subsequent levels without XP penalty)
Barbarian 4/Fighter 2/Frenzied Berserker 10
(You're 16, or soon to be?)

Feats are Power Attack, Intimidating Rage, Cleave-F, Destructive Rage, Improved Bull Rush-F, Shock Trooper, Leap Attack, Extra Rage

You're going to use a Greatsword to cut people in two, power attacking for 5 times your penalty, which you take to AC rather than your attack rolls. You'll want a Valorous Weapon to further double your total weapon damage (Which means +10 damage per -1 AC). You can Rage every combat and might as well max Intimidate to potentially Demoralize someone at the start of each combat (which can tip the scales). Don't forget to burn your frenzies each day in a padded cell or otherwise PC free invironment, or you'll probably kill a party member. (When raging you're looking at a 40 Str without party buffs, that's 22 damage/swing, 7 on average from base Greatsword, 1 for Enhancement, 5 for Colision, and 80 for Power Attack, all doubled is about 230 damage in a single swing).

* Actually with a Ranger dip and a Wand of Lion's Pounce you could pounce, via a Wand Chamber
Emphasizing the "USE UP YOUR FRENZIES HARMLESSLY AT THE START OF THE DAY" point. They can be triggered by the enemy, and cause you to attack your allies.

The true strength of the Frenzied Berserker is in its improvements to Power Attack. Remember what I said earlier about feats outdoing ability scores? This is a great example of that. You might get +4 to +5 damage from a frenzy, with all of those drawbacks.... While its improvements to Power Attack give you something like +5 *per level*, with no real drawback (especially if you're charging).

By the way, you said Races of Faerun was available? If it is, play an orc. Headlong Rush from that book is orc-only, better than Leap Attack, and stacks with Leap Attack if you squeeze them both in.

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style))

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

[RT] Something for Everyone: A.K.A. The Last Sorcerer RT Will Ever Build (Caster, Damage, Trapscout, Takedowns)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

I will look at that temp but the berserker is out. I played one once before and the group did not like the fact that I would try to kill them after and the DM with another stupid house rule ruled that frenzy and rage do not stack so the charger berserker would do not as much damage as if in a normal game.
Would that work with Roblit Gambit too. Because if so than that could make a very good charging AOO build. Take mobility get 4 take 1 level of marshal for cha to AC vs AOO. I know the half orc and orc take a hit to cha but that s easy over come.
Read Tempest's post, and all of mine. DO NOT USE FRENZY EXCEPT FOR THE SAKE OF USING IT, SOMEWHERE SAFE, AWAY FROM INNOCENT BYSTANDERS.

And, yes, to Headlong Rush, it's something I forget about. 
But would headlong rush work with gambit? I do not care about the frenzy part since rage and frenzy do not stack thanks to my DM and his asinine rules
Well three reason 1 the book it comes from is not allowed 2 by DM decree all paladins will be lawful 3 just did up the saves and a REF 12 is going to get me nothing but dead. Back to the drawing board and droping DEX to 6 would be a REF OF 11 NOT GOING TO GET OUT OF THE WAY OF ANY FIREBALLS THAT WAY and a -1 to initiative yeah not good point system you are almost dead to me.



Are you saying that Power Attack isn't allowed or Paladin of Freedom isn't?  Paladin of Freedom is from Unearthed Arcana...and the SRD.  If you don't want to risk adding another book (to which you don't seem averse), ask him if he'd allow the SRD (a website that combines the PHB and several other options in one place).
Paladin of freedom is not allowed because it is in a book that is not allowed. Did that already answer no. All paladins will be lawful period from the DM.

So now trying to find out that headlong rush will work with Roblit gambit if it dose then I have an idea that I would have to work on.
OK so here is what I came up with.

Orc Barbarian 11/ Fighter 4/ Marshal 1
Stats are before magic items and level additions
Stats: Str 20 Dex 14 Con 16 Int 12-2=10 Wis 12-2=10 Cha 16-2=14
Skills: 4+0x4=16. 4+0x10=40. 2+0x4=8. 6+0x1=6 Total 70
HP: 12+3=15. 11D12+33. 4D10+12. 1D8+3
Saves: Fort: 16 Ref: 6 Will: 6
Rage: +6 Str Con -2 AC
Trap Sense: +3. Improved Uncanny Dodge. Damage Reduction 2/- rage 3/day fast movement
Feats: lv1 daylight adaptation lv3 power attack lv6 headlong rush lv9 reckless rage lv12 roblits gambit lv15 leap attack
Bonus feat fighter level1 dodge lv2 mobility lv4 combat reflexes
OK so here is what I came up with. Orc Barbarian 11/ Fighter 4/ Marshal 1 Stats are before magic items and level additions Stats: Str 20 Dex 14 Con 16 Int 12-2=10 Wis 12-2=10 Cha 16-2=14 Skills: 4+0x4=16. 4+0x10=40. 2+0x4=8. 6+0x1=6 Total 70 HP: 12+3=15. 11D12+33. 4D10+12. 1D8+3 Saves: Fort: 16 Ref: 6 Will: 6 Rage: +6 Str Con -2 AC Trap Sense: +3. Improved Uncanny Dodge. Damage Reduction 2/- rage 3/day fast movement Feats: lv1 daylight adaptation lv3 power attack lv6 headlong rush lv9 reckless rage lv12 roblits gambit lv15 leap attack Bonus feat fighter level1 dodge lv2 mobility lv4 combat reflexes


There you go! That's a surprisingly good build, given the books you have abvailable (there's parts of it I'll help refine in a minute, but I wanted to say that first.)

It looks like you used 14/14/16/12/12/16 as your starting scores, or Point-Buy 40.

If you look below, I can show you a way to pull off almost exactly this same result, but with Point-Buy 32 (as I originally requested). NOTE: I'm easing him down from ridiculous to merely high-power point buy, by using a surprisingly competent build as a starting point.

Now, my suggestions.

1) If you want to try it with a "stock" ability score setup, you'll have to drop your marshal level. This is, actually, in your best interest: In order to make sure those charge attacks you're using will hit, you'll be using Shock trooper. Shock trooper can actually send your AC NEGATIVE. EVEN WITH the +4 from Mobility and the +2 from Motivate Care - and neither of those is actually going to help against anyone who attacks you after the charge. Since the marshal level isn't doing a lot of good for you, it can be removed - and if it's removed, your Charisma doesn't need to be that high, and so on and so forth down from 40 point-buy to 32!

2) Use the following 32 PB array. STR: 14 DEX: 12 CON: 16 INT: 12 WIS: 12 CHA: 12 before racial modifiers. This still avoids the negative ability modifiers you really dislike, and it is JUST as strong and JUST as tough. 

3) Why did I suggest dropping the marshal? Because you were using that level to give yourself +2 AC vs all AoOs. It came with a free Skill Focus: Diplomacy, but since Diplomacy is not a barbarian nor a fighter class skill, that feat is almost meaningless to you. I would suggest switching this over to any full-base-attack class that you can qualify for - Barbarian 12 is fine, as is Bear Warrior 1 (but I'll assume just Barbarian for the rest of this.)
3A) Why this? Because the marshal costs you a point of base attack. With your feats, that's +8 damage on a charge attack! What did the marshal give you in exchange for this? +2 AC vs AoOs - but since you're using Shock Trooper, your AC is already on the order of -15 already, at which point everything will hit you even without the Motivate Care aura!

4) The point now is, how do you cover for your low AC on a charge? Well, remember how all of us keep saying "AC is meaningless"? Here's why.
-You can buy a potion of Mirror Image and chug it several minutes before the battle. Enemies trying to hit you now have a 9% chance to hit you, even though your AC is negative. 
-You could put something like Smoking (It's in a Faerun book, but I'm not sure WHICH book) on a gauntlet or some armor spikes. If you're not in position to charge at the start of battle, you can trigger Smoking - and have a free 20% miss chance, regardless of enemy AC. Note that if you do both this and Mirror Image, they've got less than a 2% chance of hitting you. If this doesn't work, you can buy an eversmoking bottle from the DMG, clip it to your belt, and do something similar - just invest in something that lets you see through concealment.

5) Finally, if you're really interested in taking Mobility (even though your AC vs Aoos on a charge is still going to be negative, even with Mobility!), you can get its effect as a really cheap armor enhancement in the Magic Item Compendium. (The only reason to get Mobility as a feat on a charger is if you're also picking up Elusive Target, from Complete Warrior, but to do that you'd need to drop Reckless Rage.)
5A) If you're getting Mobility from armor, or not at all, that frees up two Fighter feats! You can do a LOT with those feats - my initial suspicion might be something like Deft Opportunist from Complete Adventurer (you'll need to increase your Dexterity with level-up boosts to take it), Exotic Weapon (Spiked Chain) if you aren't already using a reach weapon (you really should), and/or Hold The Line (Complete Warrior).



Summary:


  • Try STR: 14 DEX: 12 CON: 16 INT: 12 WIS: 12 CHA: 12 before racial modifiers. It's 32 PB and still meets all your requirements (has no penalties).

  • Exchange the Marshal level for a level of Barbarian. (With the lower Charisma, you won't get as much bang for it - and due to Shock Trooper you were getting exactly zero bang for it anyway!)

  • Replace Dodge and Mobility with two of the feats suggested above, such as Deft Opportunist and Hold the Line.

  • USE A TWO-HANDED REACH WEAPON (The glaive or guisarme are good places to start in the PHB). 

  • USE LIGHT ARMOR - the basic PHB/DMG suggestion is a Mithral Breastplate.

  • Look into equipment (suggested above) that gives you miss chances, ideally those that trigger miss chances while moving. There's lots of these options in the DMG and the MIC alone. If you wish, put the Mobility enhancement on your weapon.

  • While I'm at it, DEFINITELY look into any item you can wear that you can use as a swift action. Barbarian and Fighter lack a lot of swift-action effects, so there isn't as much competititon for that action from their gear. Swift-action teleports (anklets of translocation are reasonably cheap and from books you're allowed; there's an immediate-action teleport cloak in a book you CAN'T use,but...) in particular are a godsend.



You'll be surprised at how powerful this can be. Go ahead and give it a burl. 

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style))

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

[RT] Something for Everyone: A.K.A. The Last Sorcerer RT Will Ever Build (Caster, Damage, Trapscout, Takedowns)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

Well I already looked into dropping the marshal level but I need to know if gambit can work on a charge? If it dose not then I will have to change the build. For a weapon I was looking into the beast claw gauntlets yeah they do not do much damage but they give me pounce. For that I was also looking into monke grip so they could be large weapons and with only a -2 to attack it would not be that big a deal.Then with boots of haste and power attack on both. And since one of the books has ambidextrous in it I would get 1 1/2 times the str from both hands which is like 3x the damage plus the double damage from head long rush. If I want to go real big add in two weapon fighting and get 6 attacks with 1 1/2 times the damage plus doubled damage off the charge. Plus take like rhino hide and get another 2D6 so it would look something like this
BAB 16/16/11/6/1 before anything
After charge rage and magic items atta is would look like this
33/33/33/26/21/16 damage 1D6+12x6x2 with power attack -5 would look like this 28/28/28/21/16/11 damage 1D6+12+30x2 leap attack added +30 for something like min damage: 118 max 152
Gambit will work on AoOs provoked as part of a charge. I'm on my phone and can't check if the wording would suggest the improved multipliers from charging would apply go Robilar AoOs; my instinct is to say YES, but that is uncertain.

Do not fall into the trap that is Monkey Grip. It doesn't do what you think it does, and what it does do is pretty terrible. You typically take a -2 penalty for a +2 to +3 damage boost. By taking the same penalty on a normal weapon with Power Attack, you get at least +4, and likely more. Ignore the feat altogether.

Ditto for two-weapon fighting. You go from +8 per point of Power Attack to +3, and that's assuming you use Oversized Two Weapon Fighting.

Seriously, YOU WANT JUST ONE WEAPON. THAT WEAPON IS TWO HANDED AND IS EITHER A GREATSWORD, OR HAS REACH. Its that simple. Anything else will be a trap.

Skip Rhino Hide, too. Overpriced and under protective for what it gets you.

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style))

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

[RT] Something for Everyone: A.K.A. The Last Sorcerer RT Will Ever Build (Caster, Damage, Trapscout, Takedowns)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

Blasted phone keyboard.

Whoever else gets to this first, take *exactly* his build with a +1 collision great sword (his sources might not allow Valorous), and shoe him how much better a charge will be. Remember that one level is open and can easily be Ranger for wands of lions pounce.

Kos: I fully expect at least double that damage output using this, and likely quadruple or even quintuple with any luck. 130ish damage is just going to tickle at this level, especially if it never hits.

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style))

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

[RT] Something for Everyone: A.K.A. The Last Sorcerer RT Will Ever Build (Caster, Damage, Trapscout, Takedowns)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

Specifically having a greatsword (if going for a non-reach two-handed weapon) isn't all that important; the difference in damage is barely noticable so you can afford to pick whatever you happen to like.

The falchion probably has the best average damage output simply due to its critical range (even if you don't run into many vulnerable creatures, it takes a lot of hits to make 1 extra point of damage on the greatsword add up to a single additional critical hit).  But as has been said, being two-handed is the important part.

The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Fulminating Crab, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome LurkerIronglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
Okay, full keyboard now!

I pointed out earlier why Monkey Grip is a bad idea and should never be touched with a rusty pole.

I also pointed out why, with Shock Trooper: Heedless Charge, that things that boost your AC are meaningless. (I forgot to add that if you're Reckless Raging and using Robilar's Gambit, your AC drops by another 8.)

You've done the math with two weapons (I think it's a bit off, but I won't correct it). 

Instead, I'm going to show you what you could do with a deck brush.

That's right, I'm going to show you how much ass you can kick with a stiff broom. (Well, statistically, it's a quarterstaff, but you get the idea.) It will outperform your numbers substantially.

The build Orc Barbarian 11/ Fighter 4 / Ranger 1.
Ability scores are using the 32 point buy array I mentioned above: STR: 14 DEX: 12 CON: 16 INT: 12 WIS: 12 CHA: 12 before racial modifiers (+4 Strength, -2 Int/Wis/Cha).
Feats are the same as the ones you mentioned: "lv1 daylight adaptation lv3 power attack lv6 headlong rush lv9 reckless rage lv12 roblits gambit lv15 leap attack".
The weapon is a regular ol' deck brush (quarterstaff), with a CL 16 Greater Magic Weapon cast on it. (That's a +4 bonus.) The weapon has been fitted with a wand chamber (Complete Adventurer) and a wand of Lion's Pounce (Spell Compendium; you're a ranger and can use it), but is otherwise standard.
Your other gear is only a set of +4 gloves of strength and a +2 periapt of wisdom (needed to use the wand). You should have more, which I'll address below.

You rage. Thanks to Reckless Rage and your gloves, your Strength is now 30.
You charge, casting Lion's Charge as a swift action.. You also pass the jump check for Leap Attack, and trigger Headlong Rush.
You take a -16 penalty to your attacks from Power Attack. Because you're holding your deck bresh two-handed, by default that's +32 damage. Leap Attack (read the errata) adds +100% to two-handed PA damage, so that's +64. 
This means your base charging damage is 1d6 + 15 (strength) + 5 (enhancement) + 64 (Power Attack). 
Headlong Rush kicks in, doubling this.

This means your final charge damage with a deck brush is 170 minimum, 180 maximum, without any critical hits on there.
Oh, and did I mention that because of Lion's Charge, you're attacking four times at the end of this charge, each time for that much damage?
And because Shock Trooper assigns that -16 penalty to your armor classyou're actually making these attacks at +33/+28/+23/+18?

And that's a regular ol' deck brush as your weapon, and "only" a 32 point buy. You get that powerful because Power Attack is that powerful



A proper charging weapon would probably be a +1 Valorous greatsword of Collision. Falchions are all right as well, but they work best with Keen on them. (Valorous may not be available to you; it's in Unapproachable East. Collision is in the Magic Item Compendium.) This is a +4 weapon (which a 16th level character can easily afford) that, with Greater Magic Weapon, deals 2d6+10+(Strength*1.5) damage, and doubles all your damage on a charge (i.e. triple on Headlong Rush).

If your character were to use one of these, his charge damage would be between 273 and 303 damage, again without critical hits. And this is actually on the lower end of what chargers can do (since I'm working entirely with your build instead of with a dedicated ubercharger build)!


Did you notice how the overwhelming majority of this damage came from Power Attack, and not from Strength? And how quite a lot of that Strength came from Rage and equipment, rather than starting Strength? And how this build does not need Charisma?

Also, note that during this charge attack, your AC would suffer a -26 penalty (Shock trooper -16, charge -2, reckless rage -4, Robilar's -4)? You could try buying very expensive AC-boosting items to cover for this penalty - or you could buy very cheap miss-chance-based items which work regardless of how low your AC is.

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

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These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style))

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

[RT] Something for Everyone: A.K.A. The Last Sorcerer RT Will Ever Build (Caster, Damage, Trapscout, Takedowns)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

Oh, and having demonstrated that, I figure now's a good time to address why those templates you wanted were a bad idea.

That character had a +7 level adjustment. He had a base attack bonus of +7, and a Strength of 29 before gear or rage. He had enough room for ALL of the same ubercharge feats (except he was human, so no Headlong Rush), so lets' give him Shock Trooper, Leap Attack, and Reckless Rage. For gear, we'll give him the same +4 gloves of Strength, and a greatsword with Greater Magic Weapon. (I'm assuming that the lower Base Attack didn't really slow down his feat selections, although it easily could have!)

Your template monstrosity rages, increasing his final with-gear Strength to 39 (+14 modifier)
He then charges and easily passes the Leap Attack jump check.
He fully Power Attacks for -8. This becomes +16 damage, which Leap Attack increases to +32.
You lack any form of multiplier.

Your final charge damage is 2d6+ 21 (Strength) + 5 (enhancement) + 32 (Power Attack) = 60 to 70 damage on a charge.
This is made at a final attack bonus of +26.

Even if you did manage to get a doubler on there somehow, you're performing comparably to your 40 PB TWF build, but still get your ass handed to you by a 32-PB two-hander build.


Despite having superior ability scores, your 40-point-buy, templated character underperforms the 32-point-buy untemplated character in this thread.

Why is this?

Because levels, not ability scores, are the true measure of badass in 3.5. Similarly, it's Power Attack, not Strength, that is the true measure of melee damage. Templates cost you levels (meaning you're less badass), and the increased Strength does not make up for the lost BAB to fuel Power Attack (meaning you deal less damage).

Does this make my point?

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style))

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

[RT] Something for Everyone: A.K.A. The Last Sorcerer RT Will Ever Build (Caster, Damage, Trapscout, Takedowns)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

I like the builds but there is a issue I know my DM is going to shot it down he hates the fact that someone can 1 round something. This is why I'm trying to make something that can hammer you good, take a beating,and survive I know this is a had if not impossible feat to do. If I could get to say 100 points from each attack I think I could get away with that.
Your DM does realize that 1 rounding things is exactly what makes Wizards/Clerics/Druids/Archivists/Artificers so damn dangerous? Not to mention even Tier 2 full casters can do that easily.
I like the builds


They're YOUR own builds! Just using different strategies (and a 32 point buy on the guy using two-handers).
but there is a issue I know my DM is going to shot it down he hates the fact that someone can 1 round something. This is why I'm trying to make something that can hammer you good, take a beating,and survive I know this is a had if not impossible feat to do. If I could get to say 100 points from each attack I think I could get away with that.


Here's why that's not all that extreme.

The average CR 16 opponent is:
 HP 239,  AC 32, Base Attack +21 Fortitude +17  Reflex +13 Will +17 

You will not be able to one-shot these guys in a single attack.

You will be able to one-shot these in a single pounce - especially with Shock Trooper. (That said, I tried, and I can't figure out how you got your attack and damage numbers for your two-weapon builds. They both seem very, very high.)

Your own build, using 32-point-buy, is already capable of taking these guys out in a single pounce, while armed with a deck brush

If you want to tone it down, drop the Ranger level from the 32 PB build, which gives up Pounce. Replace it with a level of barbarian. You will deal out over 50% of the monster's HP in a single hit - but you won't one-shot it.

There's your answer - 32 PB has to hold back to prevent one-shotting monsters, and produces values that you yourself say the DM won't instant-ban. What, then, do you think he'll do if you try something stronger than 32?

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style))

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

[RT] Something for Everyone: A.K.A. The Last Sorcerer RT Will Ever Build (Caster, Damage, Trapscout, Takedowns)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

Well he figures that magic I guess was put there to do that kind of thing if you can do it with melee then who needs magic and he LOVES spell caster where as I hate arcane caster but I like divine ok enough to play them. The only one that gets honourable mention is the duskblade but he did not like my duskblade doing 2000 points of damage or so and ending up with close to 500 HP
The two weapon fighting one was this.
Claws of the beast gauntlets = pounce but 1D4+str
Monkey grip to use large sized claws of the beast gauntlets = pounce 1D6+str Attacks.
Barbarian 12 fighter 4: 16/11/6/1
Stats: str 20 dex 12 con 16 int 10 wis 10 cha10
Rage: +6 str con +2 reckless rage for +8 str con
Headlong rush doubles the damage off of charge
Power attack -5 attack +5 damage
Boots of speed for an extra attack.
Gauntlets are +3
Belt +6 giant str
Leap attack
Total str with rage: 34 attacks 16+12+3+4=35-5=30/30/25/20/15 Damage 1D6+12+7+3+7x2= 60 points of damage min x5 =300 points of damage minimum. I think this is correct now.
Monkey Grip does not work that way.

Normal: Medium gauntlets are Light. Can use Large gauntlets one-handed with a -2 penaltiy.

Monkey Grip: Medium gauntlets are Light. Can use Large gauntlets *as Light weapons* with a -2 penalty.

Light weapons do not benefit from Power Attack, and if used as off-hand weapons, you only get Strength/2 on their damage.

I also do not see any TWF or Monkey Grip penalties on your attack rolls. More of your attacks will miss. (My quick estimate is, with buffs, +26 for your highest attacks with those buffs.)

Finally, to go up the TWF feat tree requires Dexterity, which in a point-buy context means lower scores in other areas.

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style))

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

[RT] Something for Everyone: A.K.A. The Last Sorcerer RT Will Ever Build (Caster, Damage, Trapscout, Takedowns)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

I can see where you are going with that
Finally, to go up the TWF feat tree requires Dexterity, which in a point-buy context means lower scores in other areas.


I can see where you are going with that


Forgive me for saying this but based on our previous experience with you when you say "I can see where you are going with that" you're just going to use that to say "I need a bigger point buy so I can have the ability scores I want to make it work."

In so many of your post KoS you seem unwilling to accept any kind of compromise when it comes to ability scores.  When Tempest talks about DEX meaning lower scores in other areas he is simply pointing out that buying DEX 15 means giving up two points is some ability that is below 14.  Getting DEX 17 means making even more investment in DEX via more points for point buy or in the form of magic items to boost your DEX. 
Exactly.

When buying the 15 Dexterity needed for Two-Weapon Fighting means you must give up that 18 Strength, you begin to see the value of trade-offs, of costs versus benefits - of the competition for resources that underlies point-buy.

You COULD argue that the solution is "MOAR POINTS!!!". You've more or less done this, to no effect.

You could also argue that the solution is "Spend points wisely". If you can get comparable results without Dex 19 (for Greater TWF), then there's no reason for 19 Dexterity in that build, and you can buy it lower.




For example.

Your build, WITH Monkey Grip, gets no benefit from Power Attack. However, if you have TWF and Oversized TWF, you can still wield a Large set of gauntlets as if they were one-handed weapons (total penalty -4/-4), but they'd gain benefit from Power Attack (though still only half Strength to Damage). This is, basically, what I think you were wanting when you selected Monkey Grip.

So let's replace Monkey Grip with Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting. The build now looks like:
 Barbarian 12 fighter 4
str 20 dex 12 con 16 int 10 wis 10 cha10 after level-up boosts
Feats: Daylight Adaptation, Power Attack, Headlong Rush, Two-Weapon Fighting, Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Bull Rush, Shock Trooper, Leap Attack, Reckless Rage.
Weapons: Large Claws of the Beast gauntlets. As per every example, I'll cast Greater Magic Weapon on them; they're +4 but otherwise stock. (Their innate magic effect gives you Pounce, but only with the gauntlets, and only if fighting in pairs with them.)
Other gear: Strength +4.

Reckless Rage + Gear gives final Strength modifier of 30 (+15).
Charge, Power Attacking for 16. Shock Trooper, Leap Attack, Headlong Rush, and Pounce all kick in.
Attack bonus: 16 base +15 (Strength) +4 (ehancement) +2 (charging) -2 (TWF) -2 (Incorrectly sized weapons) = +33.
Pounce attack routine: +33/+28/+23/+18 main hand, +33 Off-Hand. 
Damage (main hand): 1d6+15(Strength)+4(Enhancement)+16(Power Attack) = 36 to 41
Damage (off-hand): 1d6+7(Strength)+4(Enhancement)+16(Power Attack) = 28 to 33.
All damage is Doubled via headlong rush.

ASSUMING ALL ATTACKS HIT, that's between 344 and 394.

However, we need to account for those attack rolls!

An average CR 16 monster as  HP 239 and AC 32.
This means your hit percentages are 95%, 80%, 55%, 30%, and 95%.
We can "weight" your damage by its chance to hit, to figure out your "average damage". (I can explain what I'm doing in more detail, but simply put, an attack that is guaranteed (100% of the time) to deal 10 damage and an attack that has a 10% chance of doing 100 damage can "expect" to deal the same amount of damage over time. Which one is more useful depends on your enemy, but all else being equal, the two are matched.)

Your expected damage is actually 120 to 138, or between 50% and 58% of the monster's hit points. This isn't actually bad!



Now that I've introduced expected damage, I can repeat what happened above for your templated monstrosity.
Single attack at +26 (even with Greater Magic Weapon) has a 70% chance of hitting; the damage range was 60 to 70. Thus, even with Half-Celestial / Half-Dragon added on to all of this, with all of those insane ability score modifiers on top of your 40-point-buy structure, you can only expect to deal 42 to 49 damage.

That's just 18-20% of the average monster's HP at your level.

See what I meant earlier about templates hurting a character? Look what you gained when you gave up that +7 level adjustment! You went from barely tickling it (less than 20% damage) to setting it up to be killed next round even if no one else is helping you (50%)!


Now, for sake of illustration.

If I take the 32 point buy guy with the deck brush through this, he's got two free feats (which can drop TWF/Oversized TWF for Combat Reflexes and Robilar's Gambit if you want). Remember, this guy has lower Strength than the above build!

I'll skip some steps here, but against  an HP 239,  AC 32 creature, his expected damage is 442-468 - or enough to overkill the monster in one charge. (Ubercharging is terribly powerful like that.)

Incidentally, he'll deal about 171 damage back to his attackers via an AoO this way. The TWF build would deal about 40 - or he would, if he had Robilar's instead of filling those feats with Oversized TWF. Also, ANY form of damage reduction will seriously hose the TWF build over the guy with the deck brush - DR is deducted PER HIT. This means that DR 10/- would lower the TWF build's maximum expected damage to 102 (40%), while it would lower the deck brush's overall maximum expected damage to 442 (still an instant-kill). A reminder: the deck brush build uses 32 point buy.

Hmm. Will you look at that. 32 point buy leaves both strategies in the dust while armed with a deck brush. And it's not because of the ability scores - it's because the selected components all work well together instead of at cross-purposes for each other. Instead of needing to buy high Dexterity for Two-Weapon Fighting, I just bought "enough" Dexterity for AoO tanking. And so on.




I hope with this, what I've been trying to teach you has come through as clear. 




I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject.

That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents?

I would argue that it is not optimized.

Why isn't it optimized?

Because it's overkill.

Overkill is NOT optimizing.

This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on.

However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat.

I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want.

You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.

See how this works, now?

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style))

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

[RT] Something for Everyone: A.K.A. The Last Sorcerer RT Will Ever Build (Caster, Damage, Trapscout, Takedowns)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject.

That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents?

I would argue that it is not optimized.

Why isn't it optimized?

Because it's overkill.

Overkill is NOT optimizing.

This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on.

However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat.

I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want.

You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.



That is the most succinct lesson for CharOps that I have ever seen. 
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
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