Poll: Dice (+1d12), or flat bonus (+6)

Which do you prefer?  (ignoring the 0.5 average difference).

You can see the distribution here.  (1d20+1d12 is 15% more swingy).

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

d12 or other system.  I don't want a return to silly DCs - where only the one guy with the skill is useful.
As long as the d20 is our primary die, I don't see the need for anything else.  So I'm okay with +6.  I wouldn't quite over d12 though.   You would have to have other dice though along the way like d2, d4, d6, d8, and d10.



 

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I vastly prefer the +6 over the +d12. I want every die roll to mean something, and there's a greater-than-even chance that the outcome of a +d12 isn't even going to affect whether or not I succeed in the d20 roll. How lame would it be to roll 12 on the bonus die and still fail on the check? It would be like a critical hit for zero damage.

The metagame is not the game.

Depends what you're using it for.


d20 + d12 may average the same as d20 + 6, but the probability distribution is very different.  A character with d20 + d12 has a nonzero chance of failing a DC 5 check; a character with d20 + 6 cannot.  A character with d20 + 6 has a 1 in 20 chance of getting a 26 (which is their maximum); a character with d20 + d12 has 28/240 (or roughly 11%, if I've done my extremely quick math right) of getting 26 or higher.


I don't really like skill checks where a trained character has a significant chance of failing an extremely simple task due to dice variance.  So for skill checks, I would rather see the flat bonus.

On the other hand, for combat, there are infinite variables.  Combat is crazy and much more random than a controlled easy skill check.  For combat (attacks, saves, etc) I'd be fine with the d12 bonus.
The difference between madness and genius is determined only by degrees of success.
I would prefer the dice method. Simply because I don't want everything to hinge on the d20 given how wildly swingy the d20 is.

If the d20 gets a 3, I still have a chance to succeed at DC 15 tasks if I get to roll a d12 as well. Not so much with a flat +6 bonus.
But the skill die makes things more swingy, not less. That's why I prefer the flat bonuses in both combat and skills.

 

"What is the sort of thing that I do care about is a failure to seriously evaluate what does and doesn't work in favor of a sort of cargo cult posturing. And yes, it's painful to read design notes columns that are all just "So D&D 3.5 sort of had these problems. We know people have some issues with them. What a puzzler! But we think we have a solution in the form of X", where X is sort of a half-baked version of an idea that 4e executed perfectly well and which worked fine." - Lesp

But the skill die makes things more swingy, not less. That's why I prefer the flat bonuses in both combat and skills.

This is true.

For anyone who want's to look at the distribution.

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

D12.

Prefer variety.
But the skill die makes things more swingy, not less. That's why I prefer the flat bonuses in both combat and skills.



It isn't that much more swingy, and the swingyness only occurs on the extremes. For a total of 13-21 the chance is actually identical. This translates to a roll of 7-15 on the d20. Usually for a number less than 7 or more than 15 on the d20 it is obvious whether or not the task succeeded or failed. This means that for the most part, the swingyness you speak of will never actually affect whether or not you succeed.
But the skill die makes things more swingy, not less. That's why I prefer the flat bonuses in both combat and skills.



It isn't that much more swingy, and the swingyness only occurs on the extremes. For a total of 13-21 the chance is actually identical. This translates to a roll of 7-15 on the d20. Usually for a number less than 7 or more than 15 on the d20 it is obvious whether or not the task succeeded or failed. This means that for the most part, the swingyness you speak of will never actually affect whether or not you succeed.

I agree.

I'd prefer that you'd never have a 100% chance of success, or never 100% chance of failure.

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I prefer d12
1d12 dice

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Imagine a world where the first-time D&D player rolls stats, picks a race, picks a class, picks an alignment, and buys gear to create a character. Imagine if an experienced player, maybe the person helping our theoretical player learn the ropes, could also make a character by rolling ability scores and picking a race, class, feat, skills, class features, spells or powers, and so on. Those two players used different paths to build characters, but the system design allows them to play at the same table. -Mearl

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I personally like a mix of dice and flat bonuses. Stuff that every character gets (weapon/spellcasting bonus, ability scores) should give a flat bonus while stuff that's specific to your character (skills, spell bonuses, certain feats) should give die bonuses.

Bascially, I want flat bonuses to be things I can write on my character sheet that won't change unless I go up a level, but extra dice for conditional bonuses that can change over the course of combat or when someone casts a new buff spell. 
The Oberoni fallacy only applies to broken rules, not rules you don't like. If a rule you don't like can be easily ignored, it should exist in the game for those who will enjoy it.
I could go with either.  But, if I had to pick one, I'd say bonus just because I prefer to roll less dice.  Also, I think bonus more accurately reflects refined skill while the d20 captures all of the luck elements we need.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

#BoobsNotBlood

I prefer the flat bonus because I like for training to represent a minimum level of competence. With a +6, you cannot possibly fail a DC 5 (one with an encyclopedic knowledge of nature can't fail to identify an oak tree). With a d12, you can fail those checks that a master should not be able to fail. It makes it awkward for the DM to try to explain why the guy who forged a masterwork mithril greatsword last week just failed to make some nails. And yes, I know I can just let them automatically succeed. I don't want to do that, just getting that out there.
Especialy for skills I prefer a flat bonus, as it better represents a minimum competence in a skill.
For anyone wondering...

Chance to fail a DC 5 task with with a 10 attribute score using a d12 skill die:

2.5%

Chance to fail a DC 5 task with a 12 attribute score using a d12 skill die:

0.42%

Edit: For the 10 attribute guys, the chance to get at least a 10 is exactly the same!!!
I would prefer the option of either! why not decide when you roll? OK, I got a +4 bonus and we HAVE to disable this trap and I'm feeling lucky so I trade my +4 for 1d8 and hope for the best!!

This may not be practical, so maybe list the rules with the flat bonus with an optional side bar that any bonus can be converted to a die (+2=1d4. +3=1d6, etc...)


I also agree that skill should be flat while ability bonus should use the die. natural talent can be swingy while training should be flat.

Disclaimer: Wizards of the Coast is not responsible for the consequences of any failed saving throw, including but not limited to petrification, poison, death magic, dragon breath, spells, or vorpal sword-related decapitations.

1d12!

2d12TakeHigher for exceptional specifics!

 

Danny

2d12TakeHigher for exceptional specifics!

Random question:

How do you express '2d12 Take Highest' mathematically?

I see people use the '4d6k3' formula when speaking of character generation, but how would you express skill mastery or advantage like that? 2d12k1? 2d20kH?

Danny

2d12TakeHigher for exceptional specifics!

Random question:

How do you express '2d12 Take Highest' mathematically?

I see people use the '4d6k3' formula when speaking of character generation, but how would you express skill mastery or advantage like that? 2d12k1? 2d20kH?



Since 4d6k3 assumes you're keeping the three highest, advantage would be written 2d12k1. Not sure how you would write disadvantage though.
The Oberoni fallacy only applies to broken rules, not rules you don't like. If a rule you don't like can be easily ignored, it should exist in the game for those who will enjoy it.
1d12.
1d12k1 for trained people.
2d12 for exceptional cases, (Dex checks of a Rogue.)
 
1d20 + skill dice is more reliable to accomplish mundane tasks (mid-range DC) but more difficult to reach the high end DCs. That is a good way to reserve a high level of difficulty with BA. Since it will less likely you will be breaking the bounds set, and if you do it will be rare.
 
The static modifer is more consistent for reaching the high levels of difficulty, but is more swingy overall. It is more likely to break BA. That is why advantage/disadvantage is used everywhere, as an averaging mechanism versus using bonus stacking. It is just another form of skill dice, or averaging, where it does apply to any type of roll.

If you remove the skill dice, and advantage/disadvantage, then BA will really start to show its weakness. Or you will have to place severe limits on bonus stacking. Or magic will break the game.  
Dice.  Every time.

And if the bonus is dice, then increasing "skill ranks" or whatever would be represented by an increase of die size.  The minimum check result doesn't increase, but the maximum does.  This is an enormous improvement over static bonuses that also increase the minimum check result, leading to auto-success situations which are bad in general.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
d12. Vastly prefer.  
+6 Bonus. I prefer the stability of a trained bonus that is static rather than variable. 
+6 Bonus. I prefer the stability of a trained bonus that is static rather than variable. 



This is a common misconception people seem to have regarding the skill die. The skill die isn't really particularly more variable than a flat bonus.

If you need a 10+ it does not matter whether you have a d20+d12 or a d20+6. Your chance of getting a 10 + total result is exactly the same. The d20+d12 actually provides a slightly greater chance of getting a result of 11+. The higher the result you want, the better the d20+d12 is. For example, a d20+d12 has a 15% chance of getting a total of 25+ while a d20+6 only has a 10% chance of such.

The only time the d20+d12 has a worse expected outcome is for values of 9 or less. Even then, the difference is quite small (usually less than 3%).
Which do you prefer?  (ignoring the 0.5 average difference).

You can see the distribution here.  (1d20+1d12 is more swingy).



Why don't we just stop rolling attack, saves, and initiative while we are at it.  We can just assume 10.
I wasn't making a judgment call. 1d20+1d12 IS more swingy. Mathmaticly, it's swingier.

You can fail a DC5 check, and you can succed on a 30. A very small chance, sure, but it's simply not possible with a +6.
The middle chances are exactly the same.

So how swingy do you like your dice?

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

+6 Bonus. I prefer the stability of a trained bonus that is static rather than variable. 



This is a common misconception people seem to have regarding the skill die. The skill die isn't really particularly more variable than a flat bonus.

I am not talking about the outcome, but the trained bonus alone. Rolling a die is more variable than a flat number and i prefer the latter. 

+6 Bonus. I prefer the stability of a trained bonus that is static rather than variable. 



This is a common misconception people seem to have regarding the skill die. The skill die isn't really particularly more variable than a flat bonus.

I am not talking about the outcome, but the trained bonus alone. Rolling a die is more variable than a flat number and i prefer the latter. 




Well yeah, that is technically true, but it is important for people to realize that using the d12 for the proficiency vs a +6 doesn't really make for a character that is wildly more swingy. In fact, the player using the d12 skill die is more likely to accomplish tasks of DC10 or higher.
About 15% more swingy.

Not a massive difference, but some.

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I use swingy as the equivalent of predictable, and dice averaging representing a rough bell curve is less swingy. You know the majority of results will fall in a givin range, which is more forgiving when considering BA.

For example, it was very hard for me to accept playing D&D, when I was going full steam with GURPS and rolling 3d6. D&D was random in comparison, or less predictable. Unless of course you can pad the numbers with big bonuses, but then BA goes out the window.  
Swing, by my definition, is the standard deviation.

3d6 would be less swingy. But i don't see that happening.

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Swing, by my definition, is the standard deviation. 3d6 would be less swingy. But i don't see that happening.


It's an easy module, though, since 1d20 and 3d6 have the same average.
Swing, by my definition, is the standard deviation. 3d6 would be less swingy. But i don't see that happening.


It's an easy module, though, since 1d20 and 3d6 have the same average.



While true...it also breaks the game 10 ways to sunday.

Take your 26AC dwarf. Monsters would need a 16+ to hit him on a d20 (about 25% for the best monsters around). With 3d6 that drops 4.63%  That is a huge difference.
+6 Bonus. I prefer the stability of a trained bonus that is static rather than variable. 



This is a common misconception people seem to have regarding the skill die. The skill die isn't really particularly more variable than a flat bonus.

I am not talking about the outcome, but the trained bonus alone. Rolling a die is more variable than a flat number and i prefer the latter. 




But that variance doesn't actually impact the result much due to the d20 also being present. 

d20+d12 has a higher variance than d20+6, but not by a lot.  The difference is very small.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Swing, by my definition, is the standard deviation. 3d6 would be less swingy. But i don't see that happening.


It's an easy module, though, since 1d20 and 3d6 have the same average.



While true...it also breaks the game 10 ways to sunday.

Take your 26AC dwarf. Monsters would need a 16+ to hit him on a d20 (about 25% for the best monsters around). With 3d6 that drops 4.63%  That is a huge difference.


I would argue that if your Dwarf can get 26 AC and the strongest monsters only have +10 to hit, accuracy isn't bounded very well... But you are correct. 
My Vote: +6

AD&D 1st Edition Character (Simplified)

BIOGRAPHY
Name: Brother Michael
Adventuring Class: Cleric
Adventuring Experience: 1446 out of 1501
Bonus Experience: 10%
Languages Known: Common, Orc, Elven.
Alignment: Lawful/Neutral Good
ABILITY SCORES
Strength: 10
Dexterity: 10
Intelligence: 11
Charisma: 11
Constitution: 14
Wisdom: 16
WEAPONS: HIT; MEDIUM; LARGE
Footman’s Flail: 1d20; 1d6+1; 1d4
Hammer (Thrown): 1d20; 1d4+1; 1d4
Sling: 1d20-3; 1d4+1; 1d6+1
MAGIC
Today’s Prepared Spells: Cure Light Wounds x2, Command x1
Spells Spent: Cure Light Wounds x1
Other Cleric Abilities: Turn Undead
Spell Failure: 0%
Magical Attack Adjustment: +2
DEFENSES
Armor: 5 (-4 Armor, -1 Shield)
Maximum Health: 10
Current Health: 9
CONSUMABLE ITEMS
Water Skin
7 Days of Trail Rations
7 Pints (Flasks) of Oil
1 Ounce (Vial) of Holy Water
4 Parchments
12 Sling Bullets
6 Pieces of Silver
8 Pieces of Twine

As long as the d20 is our primary die, I don't see the need for anything else.  So I'm okay with +6.  I wouldn't quite over d12 though.   You would have to have other dice though along the way like d2, d4, d6, d8, and d10.
 



I'd love to be able to use all my dice, on any given character, with the dice representing a real manifestation of my character's rise through the ranks.

Especially cool if they were used for fighting as well, and went from 0 in levels 1-3 (appretice tier), to d4 levels 4-7, d6 8-11, d8 12-15, d10 16-19 and d12 only at level 20, as the capstone

The average is still 0- 6.5, which is close enough to 0 - 6, but allows a bit more swinginess. Probably messes up the bounded math a bit that way.

Perhaps more like:

0-3 = d0 (apprentice tier, no bonus)
4-9 = d4  
10-15 = d6
16-19 = 1d8
and 20 is 1d10

And skipping 2d4 because that gets a little too much dice rolling.


 
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