Who's in, who's out? 2 New Promos Discussion

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Hi there!  I thought it would be good to have a thread where we talk only about the 2 promos we got today and how they impact the decks - what goes in, what you take out to make room for it, etc.



I'll start:

Deadwalkers

Reanimate is definitely in.  Recursion is what you want in this deck, and especially cheap recursion.  I took out my last Butcher Ghoul to make room - he never really did anything for me, other than being a 2/2 body.  I always had a better target for Fleshbag Marauder, with my two Black Cats and Geralf's Messengers and such.

The second Grave Titan is not in.  I would put him in for 2HG for sure, but for 1v1, I think one of him and one of Mikaeus, the Unhallowed is enough - and I'm definitely not taking Corrupt out.  I don't want to put him in and take out something lower cost, because the mana curve for this deck is dicey enough as it is!

Chant of Mul Daya


-Avenger of Zendikar is the new god of Magic 2014, that card is so awesome and so satisfying like Desolation Angel was in 2012 :D


-Don't remember the 2nd card it was a 2nd Green Sun's Zenith? that card is awesome too so is in my deck.


Oh hypocrisy! A World full of n00bs indeed!

I like this.  I especially like the idea of just picking one deck and thinking it out.  So here goes:

Firewave

Slith Firewalker is not in.  A 2 mana 1/1 with haste that grows is a good concept.  But in this meta, the only deck likely to NOT have a blocker by T2 is CoMD.  Sure it destroys that deck, which Firewave sometimes had a bit of trouble with.  But not enough upside.  Otherwise, he's only good when you're on the play, and even then if he lands T2, hits and pumps, he's STILL only a 2/2 on T3, and not getting by most of the blockers from any other deck.

A 2nd Furnace of Rath is probably not in.  I like running one, for when you're ahead to put it away.  But there are times it just sits dead, and a 2nd copy is only going to exacerbate the situation.  Could be fun in a FFA match though.  Just not in a 1v1.

Agreed about Firewave.  Slith is terrible in this meta - while you certainly can clear the board often enough to get a couple counters on him, I'd say against most decks the most damage you could ever get out of him is maybe 3.  That's pretty terrible, and he's not a relevant blocker unless he's pumped way up - which won't happen.  At best, he's a way to get someone to waste a Path to Exile but only a terrible player would do that, because they should know you've got Phoenix's comin'.

Mind Maze

Counterspell is obviously in.  I took out Illusory Angel as I have always struggled to get her on the board and she's really not that impressive.

Sphinx of Magosi is a tricky one, but with the heavy creature focus in this meta, I've found Jace's Mindseeker lacking, so the Sphinx is in.  This deck really doesn't even need bomb finishers, but I like to have them just in case (that's why I run one Draining Whelk).

Guardians of Light

Angelic Destiny is a no-brainer. I removed an Armored Ascension (leaving me with just one maindecked) because, well, Destiny is better, and I don't want to have more than 4 4-mana auras (the 2 Destinys, Ascension and Indestructibility). My build is tutor-heavy and aura-light, though. If you're doing it the other way around, I would advise removing Indestructibility.

Seraph of the Sword is also a no-brainer, at least for me. I was dismissing those damage-protection dudes, but after playing of the deck a lot, I think they are quite important. I removed an Auramancer to make room for it (I still have one in the deck, though).

WotC doesn't care about flavor. Their forum is the only place where an ORC can kill a troll...

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Post #1000 on Feb 02, 2013

Post #2000 on Sep 04, 2013

MotD:

Colossal Whale is out. Too expensive, and doesn't really make much sense in this deck. Sure, you can clone and recur it, but that won't stop all the exiled creatures from coming back when the original Whale leaves the field (assuming it was doing that). Doesn't help the board when it comes in.

Spinal Embrace is super in. Taking out a Vedalken Dismisser for it, but I'll still have one, so overall feeling happy with that swap. Can't wait to actually use Embrace in a match! 
Sliver Hive

Coat of Arms. Hahahahahahahaha. Oh man. That's beautiful. I love tribal swarm decks crushing me but I wish they beat me more! Now I can live that dream!

Titanic Ultimatum. I kinda want to run a ramp heavy build just as an excuse to run both of these. There such fun cards. As it is there both too expensive and mana restrictive to make it into my build.

Welcome! I'm Garren and I'll be your designated villain for the evening.

I, Garren, will knock you all down!

Agreed with Deadwalkers, though I'm dropping Cruel Revival for the Reanimate. Revival is in mostly for the recursion, and I'll happily trade the killing a critter part in exchange for getting the creature back immediately. Partially agreed on Firewave; the Slith stays out, but I'm quite happy with one Furnace of Rath, so it stays out as well.

Avacyn's Glory
Path to Exile is of course going in, at the expense of Selfless Cathar. The Cathar has been good, but not enough to stay in ahead of anything else. Whoever thought that this deck could use a third copy of one of the best removals ever needs to be dope-slapped.


Baneslayer Angel stays out, at least for 1v1. I've actually been converted to the camp that's not even running the first, instead running both Angelic Overseers. At most I'd do a 1-1 split between the two Angels. In 2HG or FFA, though, you'd be mad not to go all-out with all four.


Chant of Mul Daya
Avenger of Zendikar is in at the expense of Scute Mob. The little buggers haven't been anywhere near as good as they were in SS last year, so out they come in favor of something more... dramatic.


Green Sun's Zenith is in at the expense of Fierce Empath. Why tutor to your hand when you can tutor straight to play?


Enter the Dracomancer


Savage Twister goes in at the expense of Soul's Fire. The latter is okay, but often won't do much of anything until I get a bomb into play. Twister is too good to pass up, even if only because it's a third way to fight Hexproof Illusions.


Crucible of Fire stays out, though. I'm of the mind that I'd rather play another dragon than pump up the ones I have.

Enter the Dracomancer

Savage Twister. Really? Why wasn't this in the deck in the first place? Took out my last Valley Rannet, but I'm still not sure about it. A Tukatongue Thallid might hit the bin sometime in the future.

Crucible of Fire. I don't run any and I'm not going to start doing it now. But, once we have Sneak Attack, I want to try a build centered on it, and Crucible might be an important part of it.


Bonus Round:

Avacyn's Glory

Path to Exile. No, really, you don't need reasons to include this card. Just do it. I took out the last Selfless Cathar

Baneslayer Angel is a tricky one. You can't run all the 5-drops, and which are better is a matter of taste. I have 1 Baneslayer, 1 Angelic Overseer, 1 Increasing Devotion and 1 Hallowed Burial, and I'm going to stick with this. Again, it's all a matter of taste.

WotC doesn't care about flavor. Their forum is the only place where an ORC can kill a troll...

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Post #1000 on Feb 02, 2013

Post #2000 on Sep 04, 2013

I also traded Angelic Destiny for one Armored Ascension, there are so many tutors I can just grab Armored if I need it, and I'd rather draw Angelic most of the time.

I took out a Mesa Enchantress for the Seraph.  The 3 Spiritdancers are enough card draw for me, and an 0/2 for 3, I'm just not feeling it.
Avacyn's Glory

Yeah, I don't need two Baneslayers.  I'm running 2 Overseer, one Baneslayer, Geist-Honored Monk, Increasing Devotion, and Twilight Shepherd at the high end.  As tasty as Baneslayer's abilities are, I prefer the Shepherd's Vigilance, Persist, and ability to get me back guys I attacked with that got killed.

Path is a no-brainer, I also took out Selfless Cathar for him.
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Masks of the Dimir

Colossal Whale: In because GodOfAtheism.

Spinal Embrace: in because your opponent's bigass critter becomes yours for a turn before it's sac'd to give you life.
Kills anything in the game that's targetable, which is nice, extends your lifespan, and is Instant Speed Act of Treason.





I also traded Angelic Destiny for one Armored Ascension, there are so many tutors I can just grab Armored if I need it, and I'd rather draw Angelic most of the time.

I took out a Mesa Enchantress for the Seraph.  The 3 Spiritdancers are enough card draw for me, and an 0/2 for 3, I'm just not feeling it.



My reasoning was that Auramancer doesn't hold an aura much better than Enchantress, and the effect of the latter is much more important (especially now that I have one more aura that comes back by itself, and the new creature is harder to remove than most). I'll probably keep all aura ladies even with all 10 promos, though. The card draw engine is what makes this deck hard to keep up with, and I want to maximize that aspect.


Just to add something more to the discussion, I'm not adding neither of the promos for DW. I never found importance in the first Reanimate, even less in the second. I already have a billion and a half ways to get zombies back from the grave, and most of them don't require me to lose life in a aggro-centered metagame (Avenger of Zendikar might change this panorama, though). Grave Titan is for me in the same spot as Baneslayer in AG: it's a matter of taste which one you prefer. For me, he was out and is still out.

WotC doesn't care about flavor. Their forum is the only place where an ORC can kill a troll...

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Post #1000 on Feb 02, 2013

Post #2000 on Sep 04, 2013

Firewave (for 2HG)

slith firewalker -not using this dude, although he could be good in 1v1

furnace of rath -love this card, definitely using it, super fun in 2HG
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I think the funny thing is with 4 more exiles other than Path, that can be killed obviously, you can still set up a deck that doesn't even need the card. That is how stacked Avacyn is. Almost unbearable. I don't play the third as I like to concentrate on my aggro. I have been switching out my human exiles though and seeing what happens. I think two Path to Exiles works fine and the third is just not needed in the deck but people apparently worship at the feet of this card so I may try the deck with no human exiles or one of the enchant exiles and one of the human ones so I can use 3 of them.

Second Rath is in for me and has been for over two weeks. I wouldn't leave home without it. Firewave is my support and pounce deck and though things can get tricky with tuned partners it just works most of the time.

Whale is in for now though I am not sure for how long.
I think the funny thing is with 4 more exiles other than Path, that can be killed obviously, you can still set up a deck that doesn't even need the card. That is how stacked Avacyn is. Almost unbearable. I don't play the third as I like to concentrate on my aggro. I have been switching out my human exiles though and seeing what happens. I think two Path to Exiles works fine and the third is just not needed in the deck but people apparently worship at the feet of this card so I may try the deck with no human exiles or one of the enchant exiles and one of the human ones so I can use 3 of them.



Even if you include all the removal the deck has, it's still only 5 non-creature cards. You're not sacrificing that much on the aggro front. In fact, you gain more than you lose, IMO, because the removal lets you force damage through instead of trading creatures in combat.

And why wouldn't you worship at the feet of the card? It doesn't care how big the critter is, it doesn't care about any game text besides Hexproof, it prevents recursion, and it does all of this at instant speed for 1 freaking mana! Even its downside is easy enough to negate if you're using it correctly. What's not to love?
I like/love it but idk I also like the other cards in Avacyn, including some of the big flyers. Sometime I like to be aggressive with the deck and simply don't think I need a third mana giving exile no matter how lovely the card is. I appreciate it. I don't worship it but I like it a lot. I mean I certainly don't want to draw three of them in my starting hand when I am trying to setup aggro I will say that much. In that instance the human exile no matter how crappy it can be sometimes, and it's not usually too bad, can still buff my aggros and that does count sometimes when I need to hit hard in 2HG.

Honestly, though, I am a bit too infatuated with the big flyers in Avacyn. Cuz dayum they are good.
Well, to be fair, I think the only card in the deck you do want to see all three copies of in your starting hand is Champion of the Parish, so you can't really single out Path to Exile for that.

Anyway, we should probably avoid derailing the thread too much here. Back on topic, then:

Masks of the Dimir
Colossal Whale is out. I'd love to play him, if only for flavour, but unfortunately he's too big and too slow.

Spinal Embrace, however... GIMME! I'll be dropping Avatar of Will, which is nice, but hasn't ever really swung a game by showing up. I can see Embrace doing so both offensively and defensively.
I'm not sure where you guys are at with the promos but you will def have a good time making Chant, MMz, DW, Avacyn, and GoL. All these decks are stacked beyond belief.
I've inputed the codes on XBOX and got nothing. Any help please?

GOD TIER...";(
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MotD Spinal Embace defiantly in. I want to test out combo with Fools demise or Grim Reteurn from DWCool.
Free Willy hade to go though hes too expensive for my tasteUndecided I rather keep my Diluvian Primordial it saved me way more than I think Free Willy can. If I pay 6+ for a card it needs to do something imediately when it hits the feild(I forgot the MTG geek term for that). Im preet sure one of my friends will have in theirs so I would like to see him in action, especially since removal is not that strong in 2014
Why is Coat of Arms one of the Sliver's promos?
Well clearly it's meant to boost your slivers further but the deck makers forgot it effects all creatures, look forward to MM/AG+SH(control with Coat of Arms build) in 2HG everybody!
Yeah, except then you can only use Slivers with those decks but I guess it could work. Garbage synergy imo with this meta tho.
Avacyn's Glory

Baneslayer goes in.  She generally wins the game by herself if she isn't removed. 

I took out one Selfless Cathar.  This will slightly slow down early game, but Baneslayer provides lategame power that lets me make a comeback from a bad position and win games I really have no business winning.

Path of Exile goes in.  There is always space for one of the best removal spells of all time. 

I took out Thraben Doomsayer.  The card has really awesome synergy with Mentor of the Meek and Goldnight Commander, but ultimately it felt a bit too situational and slow. 
Builds and Guides The Cosmonaut a build that teleports foes into space. November Errata Item Guide a guide to equipping Avengers and Strikers after the November errata. 100% Crit Rate Ardent Champion an Avenger combo that autocrits and/or inflicts infinite damage at level 11.
Why is anyone even brining up AG deckbuilds...it has like 7 Mythic Rares and like 13 rares majority of which are under 2 mana...-_- i wouldnt call that "building" a deck when you just enhancing its OP-full-ness... i hate seeing it so much in games even on ranked...like they just got ANOTHER 1 mana exile which then brings this deck up to 8 exile removals....idk ima prolly jus concede if i see it from now on...no point in trying to fight an uphill battle with a deck with so much removal and can win/keep up with less then 3 mana. not too mention another Mythic Rare Flyer -_- idk mana cost seems so disproportionate when lookin at this deck ..:P
Hunter's Strength

Fauna Shaman is in, the deck can need every tutor. Also synergy with Eternal Witness.

Rampaging Baloths are in for 2HG, otherwise I don't like going above 5cmc with the deck (though other builds can).
If I pay 6+ for a card it needs to do something imediately when it hits the feild(I forgot the MTG geek term for that).

You probably mean ETB (for "Enter the Battlefield") or 187 (specifically referring to an ETB effect that kills another creature.)
Hunter's Strength

Fauna Shaman is in, the deck can need every tutor. Also synergy with Eternal Witness.

Rampaging Baloths are in for 2HG, otherwise I don't like going above 5cmc with the deck (though other builds can).

What are you tutoring for in the deck?  I haven't played HS as much, so without much of a way to use/abuse the graveyard, I'm curious as to what is worth fetching.

Starting to look like I will be only one runnning Coat of Arms.  Not the first time I have used things in magic everyone else said was unplayable or auto exclude.  I always find a way to use those types of cards.  Aside from vanilla's anyway.
I will also run Coat of Arms, at least now initially.
It has the potential to completely take over the game.
It is also one of my favourite cards in magic, so I might be biased Wink.

But I have to admit, the card would have been a lot stronger in the illusion deck.

Damn the system and its hypocrites! You quit your quest and venture into the slums of the Gruul Clans!
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Coat should have been given to EtD imo.
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Mastergear_Owen's take on Magic 2014 Campaign.

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You know what I've got more issues. Whats up with the story in this game? The adverts said I was going to team up with Chandra and we were going to kick butt and chew bubblegum across the planes on a revenge campaign against some... guy she knew I guess? Who's Ramaz anyway? What do I get instead? I beat Chandra like 2 minutes in with a mono-green stompy thing Garruk gave me (why does he keep giving all these new planeswalkers his deck) and then I spent like 5 hours jumping from plane to plane picking up random nicknacks for her mantlepiece while she sits back back doing her nails or something. I was thrown in jail! I got hit by a Roil Storm twice! Do you know how many rats are on Ravnica, Chandra? All of them! All of the rats! All of the rats eating me!

Then we go kick her Ex's bearded-screaming-butt and what does she do to help? Nothing! She throws of the occasional fire ball and spends her time trying not to freeze to death. You should have worn pants Chandra. While we're on the subject what happened to your shoes? You had like Steelies on. Steelies are cool. Now your running around with stupid boots with like 5-inch heels? Thats not appropriate footware for Planeswalking! That's not appropriate footware for normal walking! At least Liliana is doing it for the whole 'evil is sexy' thing and can summon undead to carry her when she breaks her ankle. What are you going to do ride a Phoenix? Its made of fire! You'll fall right through! Man I should have gone Planeswalking with Liliana - yeah she'd crack my head open with a rock 5 minutes in and raise my corpse to serve her but at least we could have gone dancing!

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I love how every one is dismissing Coat of Arms because it boosts your opponents.
True, but that's why you only play it when you can win that turn. Tongue Out 
http://i.imgur.com/xWWX5xm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/tMhFpCD.jpg Thanks Fellwolf and L4DHunter! <3
lets also not forget that if you use mirror entity all your slivers get boosted for every other type on the field....good times, wanna see it happen just once at least.
Coat of Arms counts creatures that share types, not types shared.
Mirror Entity would still boost this, but it would only be to +1/+1 for each creature on the battlefield.
lets also not forget that if you use mirror entity all your slivers get boosted for every other type on the field....good times, wanna see it happen just once at least.



It would also boost the opponent's creatures as well.  CoA is a 5-mana, symmetrical effect, which means given the cost and the card-disadvantage starting point, you really need it to do a lot to be worthwhile.  Given the already tribal nature of opposing decks in DotP 2014, it's likely that the only way to have CoA benefit you more than your opponent is to have more creatures on the board than they do - in which case you've likely already established an advantage, and don't need help from CoA.  In my opinion, it fails most of the criteria for a useful card (closing games when ahead, stabalizing when behind, card advantage, useful early, etc.)

lets also not forget that if you use mirror entity all your slivers get boosted for every other type on the field....good times, wanna see it happen just once at least.



It would also boost the opponent's creatures as well.  CoA is a 5-mana, symmetrical effect, which means given the cost and the card-disadvantage starting point, you really need it to do a lot to be worthwhile.  Given the already tribal nature of opposing decks in DotP 2014, it's likely that the only way to have CoA benefit you more than your opponent is to have more creatures on the board than they do - in which case you've likely already established an advantage, and don't need help from CoA.  In my opinion, it fails most of the criteria for a useful card (closing games when ahead, stabalizing when behind, card advantage, useful early, etc.)




indeed - in 2HG, if your partner has a couple of very evasive creatures, unblockables or fliers with nothing in the way, you could boost with mirror entity's ability making your slivers share type with whatever the fliers are.

I'm not sure if it would be worth it though.
Hunter's Strength

Both promos are definitely in.  I'll just post my whole build to show why:


erdana; font-size:12px; border-collapse:collapse" cellspacing="0" border="0">"It's Not Easy Bein' Green"A library for the Garruk 2014 deck (Hunter's Strength)60 Cards. 37 nonlands (18 creatures, 19 spells). 23 Lands (23).
erdana; font-size:12px; border:1px solid rgb(4, 66, 45); border-collapse:collapse; text-align:left" cellspacing="0" border="0">
   cost  6 cards 
 Spell ■■■ Prey Upon   
■■■ Rancor   
   cost  10 cards 
 Creature  Fauna Shaman  2/2   
■■ Garruk's Companion  3/2   
■■ Kalonian Tusker  3/3   
 Spell ■■■■ Nature's Lore   
 Revive   
   cost  7 cards 
 Creature ■■ Eternal Witness  2/1   
■■ Gloomwidow  3/3   
 Leatherback Baloth  4/5   
 Predator Ooze  1/1   
 Spell  Elephant Guide   
   cost  7 cards 
 Creature  Cudgel Troll  4/3   
 Fangren Firstborn  4/2   
 Master of the Wild Hunt  3/3   
 Spell ■■ Bramblecrush   
■■ Hunt the Weak   
   cost  4 cards 
 Creature ■■ Sentinel Spider  4/4   
 Spell ■■ Enlarge   
   cost  3 cards 
 Creature ■■ Rampaging Baloths  6/6   
 Spell  Primeval Bounty   
erdana; font-size:9px">Read about MysteriousMisterP's deck planner.
Open this library in the planner.
Sideboard (31 cards)
   1x Beastmaster Ascension
   1x Bellowing Tanglewurm
   1x Biorhythm
   1x Bramblecrush
   1x Brawn
   1x Craterhoof Behemoth
   1x Cudgel Troll
   1x Enlarge
   1x Garruk's Companion
   1x Garruk's Horde
   1x Gloomwidow
   1x Kalonian Tusker
   1x Living Hive
   2x Oakenform
   3x Overrun
   1x Overwhelming Stampede
   1x Prey Upon
   1x Primalcrux
   2x Regal Force
   2x Sacred Wolf
   1x Savage Summoning
   1x Sentinel Spider
   3x Staff of the Wild Magus
   1x Wurmskin Forger

Locked promos (8 cards)
   1x Crush of Wurms
   1x Decree of Savagery
   1x Green Sun's Zenith
   1x Protean Hulk
   1x Pulse of the Tangle
   1x Terastodon
   1x Vigor
   1x Vorapede





Nope, I don't run Overrun or Stampede; this deck tends to have at most two or three creatures on the battlefield at a time, and I find Enlarge to be the better card (plus, gotta love the kitty on the artwork).

The Baloths are the best fatty this deck has, aside from Primeval Bounty (which is just insane if you manage to draw it).

All the ramp is in to thin the deck and get me to the relevant cards faster, as well as comboing with the Baloths and Bounty.

I haven't tested this deck much, it has real trouble keeping threats on the table.  It's nice they gave us so much Rancor and quasi-removal spells, but it's hurting for a good fatty - why isn't Gaea's Revenge in here?!
If I pay 6+ for a card it needs to do something imediately when it hits the feild(I forgot the MTG geek term for that).

You probably mean ETB (for "Enter the Battlefield") or 187 (specifically referring to an ETB effect that kills another creature.)
Hunter's Strength

Fauna Shaman is in, the deck can need every tutor. Also synergy with Eternal Witness.

Rampaging Baloths are in for 2HG, otherwise I don't like going above 5cmc with the deck (though other builds can).

What are you tutoring for in the deck?  I haven't played HS as much, so without much of a way to use/abuse the graveyard, I'm curious as to what is worth fetching.



Predator Ooze, Master of the Wild Hunt, Leatherback Baloth, Belowing Tanglewurm, just anything that could have good impact. Also you can discard Brawn if you want to.
I personaly cut the Nature's Lore as there really isn't anything I want to ramp into, with 25-26 lands its hard missing too many land drops. 
Enlarge has the downside of being vulnerable to instant-speed removal, but I'd probably lean toward it over Overrun as well in this deck.  Overrun is more geared towards decks with Arbor Elf and Elvish Visionary.

Fauna Shaman doesn't seem worthwhile to me.  It's slow, it's virtual card disadvantage, and it doesn't seem like you gain enough in this deck from it, while it's throwing you off-curve.  However, I haven't actually played with the Shaman, so if it works out for you guys, I'll give it a try.  MtG is a game where it's easy for cards to perform differently than the theory.  The singleton Predator Ooze I could see being a hoser against some matchups.
Yeah, it's by far the deck I've tuned the least, maybe because when I play Random it hasn't come up that much yet (the Random Deck is broke!  j/k).

I think I'll hop online now and totally revamp it, either to make it a Ramp and Stamp deck with Craterhoof Behemoth and such, or cut the ramp completely and run Sacred Wolf and Oakenform, since board sweepers are rarely seen in my experience.
Enlarge has the downside of being vulnerable to instant-speed removal, but I'd probably lean toward it over Overrun as well in this deck.  Overrun is more geared towards decks with Arbor Elf and Elvish Visionary.

Fauna Shaman doesn't seem worthwhile to me.  It's slow, it's virtual card disadvantage, and it doesn't seem like you gain enough in this deck from it, while it's throwing you off-curve.  However, I haven't actually played with the Shaman, so if it works out for you guys, I'll give it a try.  MtG is a game where it's easy for cards to perform differently than the theory.  The singleton Predator Ooze I could see being a hoser against some matchups.



I agree... Fauna Shaman is out for me.  It's a little slow, and there aren't really any bombs in this deck that I feel the need to tutor for at the expense of another creature card.   The basic 3/3 is good enough in most situations
 
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