The new hydra

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1) If my Kalonian hydra was exiled by oblivian ring ETB. Next turn , I destroy the OBring , it's LTB will let my hydra comeback. Does it have 4 +1/+1 counters?
2) To clone on kalonian hydra ,will the clone have 4 +1/+1 counters or not?
Thanks. 

Please autocard , check it on [read this first] - creating a rules thread.

And use lower case c to autocard.

In both cases, a Kalonian Hydra is entering the battlefield, so in both cases it will enter with four +1/+1 counters on it.
1) If my Kalonian hydra was exiled by oblivian ring ETB. Next turn , I destroy the OBring , it's LTB will let my hydra comeback. Does it have 4 +1/+1 counters?


Yes.  It's entering the battlefield, so it gets the counters.


2) To clone on kalonian hydra ,will the clone have 4 +1/+1 counters or not?
Thanks. 


Yes.  The Clone enters as a copy of the Hydra, so it will have the ability that gives it the four counters.
 
Awesome , thanks again.

Please autocard , check it on [read this first] - creating a rules thread.

And use lower case c to autocard.

Does Kalonian Hydra trigger evolve for other creatures when it comes into play?

Is it considered to be a 4/4?

Would the counters on it be double when it comes into play by cards like doubling season? 
Does Kalonian Hydra trigger evolve for other creatures when it comes into play?

Is it considered to be a 4/4?

Would the counters on it be double when it comes into play by cards like doubling season? 

it will be a 4/4 when it enters and trigger smaller Evolve creatures

it would enter with double with Doubling Season
it would triple with Doubling Season whenever it attacks (not quadruple)
proud member of the 2011 community team
I was hoping for the quadruple, but alas.
with 2 Doubling Season it will quintuple whenever it attacks ;)
proud member of the 2011 community team
I have been looking all over the "rulebook" and have not really found a place that says a 0/0 with 4 +1/+1 counters on it is the same as a 4/4.

Is there a particular place you can reference me too, so I can understand how this works in terms of game mechanics? 
I have been looking all over the "rulebook" and have not really found a place that says a 0/0 with 4 +1/+1 counters on it is the same as a 4/4.

Is there a particular place you can reference me too, so I can understand how this works in terms of game mechanics? 


Here's the rules for calculating its characteristics:
613. Interaction of Continuous Effects

613.1. The values of an object's characteristics are determined by starting with the actual object. For a card, that means the values of the characteristics printed on that card. For a token or a copy of a spell or card, that means the values of the characteristics defined by the effect that created it. Then all applicable continuous effects are applied in a series of layers in the following order:

[...]


613.3d Layer 7d: Power and/or toughness changes from counters are applied. See rule 121, "Counters."


Here's the rule that says you take the continuous effect of the counters into account when determining whether evolve triggers:
603.6d Normally, objects that exist immediately after an event are checked to see if the event matched any trigger conditions. Continuous effects that exist at that time are used to determine what the trigger conditions are and what the objects involved in the event look like. [...]

I have been looking all over the "rulebook" and have not really found a place that says a 0/0 with 4 +1/+1 counters on it is the same as a 4/4.

Is there a particular place you can reference me too, so I can understand how this works in terms of game mechanics? 


Where is your confusion?  A +1/+1 counter adds 1 to a creature's power and adds 1 to its toughness.  A 0/0 with a +1/+1 counter on it is a 1/1.  A 0/0 with four +1/+1 counters is a 4/4.

Rules Advisor

Each +1/+1 counter on a creature gives that creature +1/+1

Four +1/+1 counters on the same creature will give that creature +4/+4

0 + 4 = 4

A 0/0 with +4/+4 will be a 4/4
Worth mentioning possibly is that the Hydra will enter the battlefield with the counters on it (A replacement effect) so there is no point that it will enter the battlefield without those counters. Unlike some other (non-zero toughness) creature that has when X enters the battlefield, put Y +1/+1 counters on it, which would be a triggered ability.

Robvalue: Copy target bug or glitch. You may choose a new card for the copy...

Will never buy games made by Arena Net again.

Will not buy Duel 2015 until 2HG reinstated.

 

Grei wrote:

Orc_Welfin wrote:
 I've removed content from this thread. 


Nice to know removing content is a company wide policy.
Worth mentioning possibly is that the Hydra will enter the battlefield with the counters on it (A replacement effect) so there is no point that it will enter the battlefield without those counters. Unlike some other (non-zero toughness) creature that has when X enters the battlefield, put Y +1/+1 counters on it, which would be a triggered ability.



I think this is where my brain was sort of tripping over the ideas.

SOrry to be so particular about this question, I am going through this excercise with my kids, who are 10 and 12 and my older son was pretty hung up on the idea of seeing 0/0 printed on the card and insisting it didn't work and not being able to point to a place in the rulebook that said that the 0/0 was just pretend was not satisfying good enough.

Thanks for all the clarification! 
The 0/0 would only be relevant for copy effects where the object doing the copying wasn't entering the battlefield.

eg. casting Mirrorweave at the Hydra would be a sweet way to kill your opponent's creatures (assuming most of yours had +1/+1 counters and his didn't)

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