What do YOU MEAN by Casual?

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This word "casual" has caused some misunderstandings since the conception of casual play. The word is vague, since the definition is based on the users point of view, this causes uneeded tension between players. The player level of each individual player determines the casualness. I learned to play against channel fireball, mono black nigthmare horror decks, etc. (tournament players). People get angry over "casual" games, but some consider casual a chance to take out every bastardized combo or card he/she can imagine. Casual play doesn't fall under any set rule or restriction.

What is your interpretaton of casual? Be specific bc power level of cards is relavent to each player. 
I cannot be convinced you are posting on your phone, because of the sheer number of typos you have. Also, these inane topics should go back to Reddit, which is where I gather you came from judging from your typing style. /overt agressiveness for many unrelated reasons

As for the topic, I consider Casual anything that isn't a tournament with prizes on the line. People that gripe about overly powerful EDH decks should grow up and realize that its part of the game.

(at)MrEnglish22

I'm typing from my phone. Currently clearing the drainage of my home. Can u upload phone picks on this forum?

Just want to see what people deem casual. The fighting starts with you so far.

P.S. I don't proof read anything on my phone.
By the way, what is reddit? It must be my title that is causing friction, sorry.
I think I agree with JMan's PoV for this topic, because it's definitely possible to be competitive in a casual setting (attitude, deck, choices the player makes, etc.)
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I currently run a deck for Standard, Modern, Commander and Legacy. For standard, I have a typical, horribly budget Rakdos Deck Wins. For Modern, I have a B/G/U/W Draw-go Reanimator featuring my favorite creature, Wurmcoil Engine. For Legacy, I'm trying too hard to break Pyromancer Ascension. I also run a Naya Zoo with all the oldies. For Commander/EDH, I'm running The Mimeoplasm. A little morals thing about me, I like winning through combos, but not infinitely. However quiet, I am a Christian, so feel free to tell me you are too, it's always a relief.
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I think I agree with JMan's PoV for this topic, because it's definitely possible to be competitive in a casual setting (attitude, deck, choices the player makes, etc.)



Interesting, i like that point of view. I wonder what others consider casual. I dislike people that say, "we are playing for fun", then they battle you tooth and nail.
Well the thing is that "fun" is subjective. I play with a fairly competitive, no-holds barred play group yet we still manage to have a good time.

And with your example, I don't think it's really fair to judge someone or a deck for running Tooth and Nail. While you can just get a game-ending creature pair with it like Kiki + Conscripts, Mike + Trike, Avenger + Craterhoof, etc. but I've also seen just as many "fair" uses of it.
Well the thing is that "fun" is subjective. I play with a fairly competitive, no-holds barred play group yet we still manage to have a good time. And with your example, I don't think it's really fair to judge someone or a deck for running Tooth and Nail. While you can just get a game-ending creature pair with it like Kiki + Conscripts, Mike + Trike, Avenger + Craterhoof, etc. but I've also seen just as many "fair" uses of it.



I'm not talking about the card...it's an expression.
At least in Multiplayer, even if there's little politicing, there is socializing and jokes being thrown around.


I find it odd when I watch everyone else's turn getting stuff getting ready to go off, and then it's my turn, and I attempt to cast stuff, making sure it resolves and there's awkward chatting or plain old ignoring because we're all having so much fun just chatting, casting jokes, etc.

Of course, just because it starts casual, doesn't mean it stays casual either.

"For fun" is always opinionated. However, when I play "for fun" it is every single game of MtG that I play. I interpret Casual as "nothing on the line" because just because it's competitive doesn't mean you can't have fun (FNM of any type is competitive, but always fun, but not casual either, attitudes can sure make it that way though.)
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I currently run a deck for Standard, Modern, Commander and Legacy. For standard, I have a typical, horribly budget Rakdos Deck Wins. For Modern, I have a B/G/U/W Draw-go Reanimator featuring my favorite creature, Wurmcoil Engine. For Legacy, I'm trying too hard to break Pyromancer Ascension. I also run a Naya Zoo with all the oldies. For Commander/EDH, I'm running The Mimeoplasm. A little morals thing about me, I like winning through combos, but not infinitely. However quiet, I am a Christian, so feel free to tell me you are too, it's always a relief.
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Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved and your house. Book of Acts 16:31
Cheers!
At least in Multiplayer, even if there's little politicing, there is socializing and jokes being thrown around.


I find it odd when I watch everyone else's turn getting stuff getting ready to go off, and then it's my turn, and I attempt to cast stuff, making sure it resolves and there's awkward chatting or plain old ignoring because we're all having so much fun just chatting, casting jokes, etc.

Of course, just because it starts casual, doesn't mean it stays casual either.

"For fun" is always opinionated. However, when I play "for fun" it is every single game of MtG that I play. I interpret Casual as "nothing on the line" because just because it's competitive doesn't mean you can't have fun (FNM of any type is competitive, but always fun, but not casual either, attitudes can sure make it that way though.)



That is why i created this topic. Just want to know what this community thinks of "for fun" and "casual".
I'm not talking about the card...it's an expression.


Certainly not an expression I've heard am familiar with. But my reply can also be put into a more general sense. There are cards that can be used and often are used to do degenerate, "unfun" things. But there are also interesting and fun ways to use these cards as well. 

As someone who used to run a fairly degenerate combo deck, I do admit that comboing off was pretty fun.

Most would not suggest posting just to bash another person for their post topic, typos and/or opinion because it is not constructive. Negative posts mean little to nothing. Next, I read the post, and it is not something I have not read in this forum. Does it justify that he or she should not post his or her post? Should we dismiss it? We have no such rights. If someone titles a post, "Help with Gave, Guru of Spores", should one or many in the community tell him or her that the topic has been posted? Maybe you want to tell that person to find a Ghave, Guru of Spores deck in the Decklist Compendium? Wait. There are different versions and opinions on how a Ghave, Guru of Spores deck works (See the slippery-slop rational). Also, I read the disputed post that contains the phrase "Tooth and Nail." After reading and re-reading, I am sure that the individual did not refer to the card, Tooth and Nail, due to the sentence structure of the sentence. Instead, the author was referring to the popular Latin phrase. Prior typos have been various but minor unlike this current allegation. How about someone provide their version of what casual or for fun means? Maybe the original post was supposed to encourage the best possible consensus for those two ideas.
Fight...dentibus et vnguibas (Eng. 1562= Tooth and Nail) and keep brewing.

Correct grammar and spelling went out the window a long time ago with the advent of message boards and chat rooms.  Like JClaustro, I don't really understand the hostility towards what seems a perfectly benign subject.  In my opinion, unless you are earning money for the gameplay, it is all "casual".  I lose 95% of the games I play, but I am just happy when I get a moment to relax and have fun.  Also, losing so much makes the occasional wins all the more sweet.  I figure I could probably win more if I chose to invest more money in cards, but then I couldn't invest in going out to eat with my partner or growing vegetables in my garden, etc. etc. 
At least in Multiplayer, even if there's little politicing, there is socializing and jokes being thrown around.


I find it odd when I watch everyone else's turn getting stuff getting ready to go off, and then it's my turn, and I attempt to cast stuff, making sure it resolves and there's awkward chatting or plain old ignoring because we're all having so much fun just chatting, casting jokes, etc.

Of course, just because it starts casual, doesn't mean it stays casual either.

"For fun" is always opinionated. However, when I play "for fun" it is every single game of MtG that I play. I interpret Casual as "nothing on the line" because just because it's competitive doesn't mean you can't have fun (FNM of any type is competitive, but always fun, but not casual either, attitudes can sure make it that way though.)



The social games are more fun, but people use the word fun with varying degrees of seriousness to say the least. That is why i enter new playgroups and ask them, "how serious is this group?". Then I scan the board and evaluate the card level, since some people think taking 10+ turns and playing obliterate then not playing a win con is fun. I usually study the playgroup before i play the game. I have about 60+ cards on the side so I can adjust properly to the playgroup.
Correct grammar and spelling went out the window a long time ago with the advent of message boards and chat rooms.  Like JClaustro, I don't really understand the hostility towards what seems a perfectly benign subject.  In my opinion, unless you are earning money for the gameplay, it is all "casual".  I lose 95% of the games I play, but I am just happy when I get a moment to relax and have fun.  Also, losing so much makes the occasional wins all the more sweet.  I figure I could probably win more if I chose to invest more money in cards, but then I couldn't invest in going out to eat with my partner or growing vegetables in my garden, etc. etc. 



Jman was provoking, but i don't fall for such antics--i just want some opinions from the forum. 
Correct grammar and spelling went out the window a long time ago with the advent of message boards and chat rooms.  Like JClaustro, I don't really understand the hostility towards what seems a perfectly benign subject.  In my opinion, unless you are earning money for the gameplay, it is all "casual".  I lose 95% of the games I play, but I am just happy when I get a moment to relax and have fun.  Also, losing so much makes the occasional wins all the more sweet.  I figure I could probably win more if I chose to invest more money in cards, but then I couldn't invest in going out to eat with my partner or growing vegetables in my garden, etc. etc. 



Jman was provoking, but i don't fall for such antics--i just want some opinions from the forum. 



Jman was just cranky and gets annoyed with stupid things sometimes. They mostly have to do with the whiners at my LGS (about 1/4 of the EDH players) who gripe about how "everyone is too competetive" when they really mean "I don't want to spend money on cards and expect everyone else to do the same."

Correct grammar and spelling matters just as much as it did in the 80's as it does today.

(at)MrEnglish22

Correct grammar and spelling matters just as much as it did in the 80's as it does today.


Wachu tryn 2 sa?

I appreciate proper grammar and the ability and willingness to at least take a second glance at what you've written before posting. That being said, we all make mistakes, so I laugh at funny ones and ignore minor ones.

As for what is casual to me, it pretty much boils down to what's at stake. I play with a mixed group of hyper-competetive combo players and those that like to slow-roll into big plays and fun synergies during a longer game. I like winning, but don't mind losing a fun game. I avoid obvious instant-win/infinite combos because that is less fun for most people, but deal with those that do play that sort of thing the best as possible. If I play in a game where there may be prizes, from cash or cards to the right to decide the next game's format, I might play a stronger, less-fun deck just to win.

I play more cutthroat at prereleases and drafts, as there are prizes on the line. In my EDH games that happen a few times a week, I play to have fun, and weave a win out of whatever threads I'm given. I try to take care of things that hurt my gameplan, and try to beat people down slowly but surely.

Casual is supposed to be fun, and everyone at a casual table needs to play to have fun first, and try to win without ruining the game for everyone second. Of course in 1v1 games, you have fun winning, as that is your one goal and you can't help but to screw the opponent, so it is acceptable since they will do the same to you. You can only laugh at well-timed counterspells and such, and grimace at a big X-spell coming your way.

How this relates to individual card power and card quality, we use what we have. Some in my group have Mana Crypts, ABUR duals, and that sort of thing, and some have less strength in relation. The ones that don't have the $200 rares usually do very well though, because you cannot buy raw deck-building skill or play talent. My $500 decks do as well as most $1200 decks I've come across, so really it just comes to having the right card at the right time more than having the most expensive card in your opening hand.

You can't buy fun, and you can't buy a win. If you think you are doing either, you are failing at the game in the first place, I think.
If I'm right, I'm right. If I'm wrong, I still believe I'm right. Think of it as religion. dubito ergo sum.
Casual is anything non-sanctioned. The level of competitiveness and what tactics are sacrosanct in any given casual group varies. I play Boom // Bust, Decree of Annihilation, Catastrophe, and Armageddon in my Numot, the Devastator EDH. For some people land destruction is verboten, but I say that if you can't handle getting kneecapped mayhaps you should go home and fetch your big-boy pants. ;)

Most of my casual constructed decks are fairly cutt-throat, but I don't play most of them too often because I know many players have a hard time with land destruction, discard, Stasis, and control and disruption in general.

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I'll reiterate: casual play means no prizes. You can play a casual game competitively. You can play for fun (you can do the same with competitive games. I played fnm for fun). The two are not exclusive.

If casual games are sucking, play with different people. If you can't, speak up and try to reason. I like to see the people I play with have a good time, they're more likely to keep playing that way.

3DH4LIF3

casual to me is where people come together to play with the motivation to have fun, if there's something else on the line (prizes, positioning, the love of a woman) then its not casual. It's why i enjoy EDH, people come together with the objective to have fun and it seems to mellow people (i hate when people rules lawyer and have a snobishness in tournaments because they think they're better than you, but that is a different topic entirely).

-Kraik
EDH is a casual format.  However, it's also unique insofar as the social contract at the center of it.  It basically says don't be an a-hole.  Interactivity is the core of EDH.  For me personally, violations of the contract come in the form of two-card game winning combos and mass land destruction.  The latter has been plaguing my LGS recently in the form of Sylvan Primordial abuse.  Sen Triplets and recursive Mindslavers are also violations in my book.  But of course, these are merely my personal standards.

Having said all that, people have different standards of fun.  If one can find a meta that likes the aformentioned things, by all means go for it and have fun.  My philosophy on EDH is to build for fun and play to win.  Any idiot can fill their deck up with two-card combos and tutors.*

Also, for this ridiculous Tooth and Nail discussion:  the card came from the common saying, which normally refers to one doing something relentlessly and vigorously, usually in opposition to something.  As in "I'll fight tooth and nail to exile your stupid Sylvan Primordial."  Read a book, people.

*I do admit to having a deck that consists of nothing but two-card combos, tutors and counters, but it's only for competitive purposes.  I barely consider it a real deck.

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I don't have a standard for "casual". I scope out play groups and determine there casual play. I have the resources to adapt.
Casual is not about how good/competitive your deck or playgroup is, it's your attitude and how you play the game.  You can have the most cutthroat deck in the world but still play a fun and loose game if you do it right.  In a casual game it doesn't matter at all who wins (which is not the same thing as not wanting/trying to win) because you all had a good time.  That's the most important point - the ultimate goal of a casual game is to not only have fun yourself, but to try and make sure all the players enjoy the game.  Who actually wins (and how) is irrelevant to that, but it's a nice bonus for that guy.

I'll give an example game I recently played.  Three player game, the generals don't really matter.  Player one missed his turn four land drop.  I missed my turn three and four land drop, but I did get a Signet.   Player three has ramped into a Sun Titan-Strip Mine recursion, and nobody else gets to cast a spell that game.  No prizes were on the line, we were playing just to kill time, but that wasn't a casual game.  One player shut the others out of the game at the cost of those players having fun (which we quite clearly were not).  There were plenty of other options available to player three there - Sun Titan could have got a fetch land to ramp his own mana further while letting the other players have a game, something else could have come out instead of Sun Titan, or he could just swing for a vanilla six every turn because the others were already stumbling on mana and not doing anything.  Any of those options would have given the other players a chance to get into the game and enjoy themselves.  I have personally played for several turns with an infinite combo on the battlefield that I didn't use because the people I was playing with aren't into that (so much that they didn't even notice it) so I wanted to try and win "for real."
So many opinions. Do some of you sense tension by the varying degrees of "for fun" or "casual" play (during or afterwards). People don't want to play with you anymore or vice versa.

I don't play with a certain play group bc their idea of casual is no card can cost more than $5 (at anytime of cards life). I made a mono-red and mono-green deck with pure commons and wiped there decks. They threw me out by refusing to play me--krosan tusker too OP.
I'll give an example game I recently played.  Three player game, the generals don't really matter.  Player one missed his turn four land drop.  I missed my turn three and four land drop, but I did get a Signet.   Player three has ramped into a Sun Titan-Strip Mine recursion, and nobody else gets to cast a spell that game.  No prizes were on the line, we were playing just to kill time, but that wasn't a casual game.  One player shut the others out of the game at the cost of those players having fun (which we quite clearly were not).  There were plenty of other options available to player three there - Sun Titan could have got a fetch land to ramp his own mana further while letting the other players have a game, something else could have come out instead of Sun Titan, or he could just swing for a vanilla six every turn because the others were already stumbling on mana and not doing anything.  Any of those options would have given the other players a chance to get into the game and enjoy themselves.  I have personally played for several turns with an infinite combo on the battlefield that I didn't use because the people I was playing with aren't into that (so much that they didn't even notice it) so I wanted to try and win "for real."



So, you blame the guy for making intelligent plays? You know you could have scooped (conceeded), right?

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Here's a shout out for Scholars' Books & Games in Bridgewater, MA, and for Paladin's Place in Darmstadt, Hessen, Germany where I was stationed for two years. Support your FLGS!

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Casual is not about how good/competitive your deck or playgroup is, it's your attitude and how you play the game.  You can have the most cutthroat deck in the world but still play a fun and loose game if you do it right.  In a casual game it doesn't matter at all who wins (which is not the same thing as not wanting/trying to win) because you all had a good time.  That's the most important point - the ultimate goal of a casual game is to not only have fun yourself, but to try and make sure all the players enjoy the game.  Who actually wins (and how) is irrelevant to that, but it's a nice bonus for that guy..."




My feelings exactly. There are cards in my decks that are good on their own and combo with other cards that I am well aware of that I choose not to use together unless someone is being a tool.

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For mean, I generally try to maintain my decks power levels so that the orher people in my play group get to play and have a chance at winning. I have an Animar combo deck that I dropped the tutor count in, a Rafiq deck I cut putrefax from, and there a few other cards I avoid playing.

For mean, casual means nothings on the line, and your playing to have fun.
I'll give an example game I recently played.  Three player game, the generals don't really matter.  Player one missed his turn four land drop.  I missed my turn three and four land drop, but I did get a Signet.   Player three has ramped into a Sun Titan-Strip Mine recursion, and nobody else gets to cast a spell that game.  No prizes were on the line, we were playing just to kill time, but that wasn't a casual game.  One player shut the others out of the game at the cost of those players having fun (which we quite clearly were not).  There were plenty of other options available to player three there - Sun Titan could have got a fetch land to ramp his own mana further while letting the other players have a game, something else could have come out instead of Sun Titan, or he could just swing for a vanilla six every turn because the others were already stumbling on mana and not doing anything.  Any of those options would have given the other players a chance to get into the game and enjoy themselves.  I have personally played for several turns with an infinite combo on the battlefield that I didn't use because the people I was playing with aren't into that (so much that they didn't even notice it) so I wanted to try and win "for real."



So, you blame the guy for making intelligent plays? You know you could have scooped (conceeded), right?


I don't blame him for anything.  I'm just pointing out that he had several options open, and he chose the option that made the game competitive and must-win-now, rather than the option that would have made it a fun and carefree and casual game.  There's nothing inherently wrong about any of the choices in that scenario, they all have their place, my point was that the third player came into the game with an attitude of "win-at-all-costs" that turned it into a fight rather than a game.  I know some people would enjoy trying to play through a Strip Mine lock, but since we were quite vocally not enjoying it that turned out to be a game that wasn't "for fun" anymore because it wasn't fun.

It's not about the power of the deck, it's about wanting your opponents to have a good time; instead of getting tunnel vision on the game and what would be the "best" play, you should pay some attention to the people you're playing with.  After all, in a casual game the best play isn't the one that wins the game, it's the one that makes a good story.  A story about a Strip Mine lock isn't very interesting for anyone, even the guy that won.

humiliating is not fun
I understand what JBTM is talking about carefree over a fight, but holding an infinite over a playgroup's head is not the way to go.

Look, I play Tekken a lot, but I don't take out Paul (my best character). 

The person LDing sin't cool either, but what was allowed in the "casual" game.

I disapprove on beating up people behind in the game--that person stuck with 3 land. LD is not allowed unless a win con dropped promptly. This past friday, I reanimated a sylvan primordial then rite of replication with kicker while controlling a woodfall primus. No one else had a creature or land and i had 41 damage on the board and plenty of mana with damia  ready to go.

I believe that holding back a god hand is wrong and I prefer myself and anyone holding one to eliminate the others fast bc it is honest--god hands show up. I find feeling bad and holding back to spare people crushing defeat dishonest. If they find out, they will be mad, thinking you are superior than they are.
Aye, Casual is about having fun. I have a story from last Friday to talk about for this thread because there were no infinite combos involved, but some strong decks facing each other down.


As bad as it was, I was running The Mimeoplasm in a 6-way FFA. Cutting the story down, I almost killed one guy (argh! 20 general!) Killed another with a........... 65/65 Geth, Lord of the Vault with Batterskull equipped (copied by a Metamorph). As I pondered how to beat uh........ 2 Darksteel Colossus[/c]es also equipped with Batterskull, the guy with the Scion Deck decides to drop a Sleep and a Sorin Markov dropping me from the game pretty suddenly.

It was a pretty chaotic game, lasted about 2 hours or so with a rare 4-times-casted Mr. Mime to get where I was. Also with 2 Living Deaths casted (one countered, the other returned by Eternal Witness.

I never, ever go after the guy that's screwed, even if it means just merely taking them out of the game.
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I currently run a deck for Standard, Modern, Commander and Legacy. For standard, I have a typical, horribly budget Rakdos Deck Wins. For Modern, I have a B/G/U/W Draw-go Reanimator featuring my favorite creature, Wurmcoil Engine. For Legacy, I'm trying too hard to break Pyromancer Ascension. I also run a Naya Zoo with all the oldies. For Commander/EDH, I'm running The Mimeoplasm. A little morals thing about me, I like winning through combos, but not infinitely. However quiet, I am a Christian, so feel free to tell me you are too, it's always a relief.
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Specifics about where to draw the line depends on the preferences of the players involved. As a general rule, the distinction between casual and competitive breaks down to one subtle difference:


In casual magic, the top priority is the overall group's enjoyment.


In competitive magic the top priority for each individual is winning.


Casual players want to win, of course. And competitive players want fun games. It's just a matter of how those priorities are ordered.


If your friends can enjoy a game that involves fighting through LD, then go ahead and play it. If they don't, then you're a douchebag if you force them to face it, no matter how well argued or logically bulletproof your reasoning is. If they don't enjoy the game because of something you did, you're the loser.

First, I ask what they mean by casual. I tell people how I play. I have not been rejected from one game. I do run spot LD bc, well, its necessary.

I don't blame him for anything.  I'm just pointing out that he had several options open, and he chose...


The best one. And you complain because he made the best decison possibble to further him towards victory. Next time I suggest you ask him to play a less powerful deck, or simply decline to play against him. Don't whine when you get a bad hand and the opponent presses his advantage. He's doing what he's supposed to do: being your opponent.

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I don't blame him for anything.  I'm just pointing out that he had several options open, and he chose...


The best one. And you complain because he made the best decison possibble to further him towards victory. Next time I suggest you ask him to play a less powerful deck, or simply decline to play against him. Don't whine when you get a bad hand and the opponent presses his advantage. He's doing what he's supposed to do: being your opponent.


I can only explain so many different ways that I'm not complaining about what he did.  I'm using it as an example to show that while he may have made the best play for winning the game, making that choice turned it into a game that was about competition more than fun.  If the priority had been to have a laid back game rather than to crush and destroy everyone with no resistance, then it was not the best play. 
Yo, escef and jbtm, this thread is about opinion. Keep cool dudes, its a game.

On a side note, I like it when people are up front about there play style and idea of casual (don't tell me about your game plan though).
Yo, escef and jbtm, this thread is about opinion. Keep cool dudes, its a game. On a side note, I like it when people are up front about there play style and idea of casual (don't tell me about your game plan though).


When did you become a moderator?

Scope my YouTube channel!

Here's a shout out for Scholars' Books & Games in Bridgewater, MA, and for Paladin's Place in Darmstadt, Hessen, Germany where I was stationed for two years. Support your FLGS!

Attacking the darkness since 1987, turning creatures sideways since 1994.

I just finished the anointing ceremony.