Hybrid Avenger and Distant Vengeance feat

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I read a lot of old threads here from ~2008 when the feat first came out. Distant Vengeance is a feat that allows you to use your Oath of Enmity on ranged basic attacks. The Hybrid Avenger OoE states that you can only use OoE with melee avenger powers and paragon path powers. Can a hybrid Avenger use OoE on ranged basic attacks?

There were two main arguments for and against.

The argument for letting a hybrid Avenger use OoE on ranged basic attacks was essentially that specific beats general, and excepting specific instances this is a mostly harmless combination. It costs a feat, there are conditions on its use, so the limited benefit of using ranged basic attacks with OoE is acceptable. (Yes, there is potential for abuse, but that doesn't mean that the benefit isn't fairly limited in most cases or that the feat should suddenly not work)

 The argument against basically boiled down to "no double dipping into striker class features!"

The argument against was much harder to ignore back in 2008, but we have since had the hybrid Executioner released. Hybrid Executioner also lets you double dip into striker class features with basic attacks. 

In light of the Executioner, do those who once argued against using this feat with hybrid Avengers still feel as strongly? Can I get a general consensus of yay or nay?






Specific reason why: My friends and I want to make a party with an Eladrin Warlock|Avenger/Student of Caiphon and a couple enabling leaders. Our plan is to use the leaders to crit fish with our striker.
No clear RAW answer, but it's probably balanced to allow it.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Doesn't work, hybrid OoE only applies to Avenger and Avenger PP powers. Those are the conditions you get it under, so those are the conditions you use it under. DV doesn't specifically override this rule so SvG never comes up.

You can houserule it, though. Don't see why not.
Doesn't work, hybrid OoE only applies to Avenger and Avenger PP powers. Those are the conditions you get it under, so those are the conditions you use it under. DV doesn't specifically override this rule so SvG never comes up.

Disagree.  In any case, ETV.

"Benefit: As long as you are within 10 squares of your oath of enmity target and no other enemies are adjacent to you, you gain the benefit of your oath of enmity on all ranged basic attacks against your oath of enmity target."

"All" overrides stuff like other damage conversions with lightning weapons (even arguably with stuff like Honorable Blade's level 11 feature).  Not sure why it wouldn't override hybrid OoE restriction in the case of RBA's.
The benefit of hybrid OoE is that it only applies to Avenger and Avenger PP powers. So it'll apply to any RBA that is an Avenger or Avenger PP power. It does not work for any other RBAs, as a hybrid.
Additional thoughts/justification for allowing this combo to work posted here.
Additional thoughts/justification for allowing this combo to work posted here.

All of which are wrong in their fundamental reasoning.
Doesn't work, hybrid OoE only applies to Avenger and Avenger PP powers. Those are the conditions you get it under, so those are the conditions you use it under. DV doesn't specifically override this rule so SvG never comes up.

Disagree.  In any case, ETV.

"Benefit: As long as you are within 10 squares of your oath of enmity target and no other enemies are adjacent to you, you gain the benefit of your oath of enmity on all ranged basic attacks against your oath of enmity target."

"All" overrides stuff like other damage conversions with lightning weapons (even arguably with stuff like Honorable Blade's level 11 feature).  Not sure why it wouldn't override hybrid OoE restriction in the case of RBA's.



I agree, "all" overides the specifics of the hybrid OoE. A ranged basic attack doesn't fall under the "Avenger and Avenger PP powers" specification, so the alternative is that the feat does absolutely nothing, which I don't think is the intention either.

I probably won't do this though, because I was debating making this for LFR. I hate playing characters that just end up having their one of their primary tricks ruled illegal by every other DM. I've found a handful of those DM's just look for any excuse to start weakening characters, so I try to make mine as ironclad as possible.
Incorrect, the alternative is that it was 1. Intended to work for pure Avengers and 2. The Avenger has an in-class RBA power that it will work on.
Incorrect, the alternative is that it was 1. Intended to work for pure Avengers and 2. The Avenger has an in-class RBA power that it will work on.



1) Hybrid rules specifically state apply any game options as though you are a full class.  So for game option purposes, you have the full OoE.

2) All means all.  If it stated any ranged basic attack, then you would be right.  But all means all.  The avenger has TWO RBAs.  The avenger one and then the one that everyone has.  The feat says all.  So at the VERY LEAST it would apply to two RBAs which breaks your logic right there.  If you do not include the basic RBA, then you are gaining the benefit on all ranged basic attacks.

All is inclusive.  It means every RBA.

The feat specifies "... you gain the benefit of your oath of emnity on all ranged basic attacks against your oath of emnity target."

The feat overrides the general rule of hybrid avengers which states that OoE has the trigger of "a melee attack using an avenger power or an avenger paragon path power."   
1. They qualify you for things as if you had the full feature. You don't ignore their rules in cases where their specific rules are relevant.

2. You don't ignore their rules. Again. Hybrid OoE only works on Avenger and Avenger PP powers. All RBAs that meet that definition it applies to.

SvG requires explication. It would need to specifically say it overrode the specifc rule of Hybrid OoE. It doesn't. So it doesn't.
1. They qualify you for things as if you had the full feature. You don't ignore their rules in cases where their specific rules are relevant.

2. You don't ignore their rules. Again. Hybrid OoE only works on Avenger and Avenger PP melee attack powers. All RBAs that meet that definition it applies to.

SvG requires explication. It would need to specifically say it overrode the specifc rule of Hybrid OoE. It doesn't. So it doesn't.



Again.  As you are so fond of saying, you apply it ALL.

PHB3 pg 136: "Such a class feature counts as the full-fledged feature for the purpose of meet prerequisites and APPLYING various game options."

It is NOT just about meeting prereqs.  It specifically states it counts the same as normal for applying the effects as well.

And as for the second statement, I corrected it.  The feat makes two(2) changes.  First, it adds RBAs to the list.  Second it adds ALL RBAs.  It does because that is what the feat SAYS it does.  It does specifically override the rule.  The rule is limited to Avenger/Avenger PP melee attack powers.  You are the one ignoring the rules.  The feat says what it does.  You are trying to apply a limit that is NOT part of the feat.

It does not say "you can use RBAs with OoE" because then you would have a basis for the position you are stating.
  
Explication requires specificity. It doesn't specifically override the hybrid restrictions, so it doesn't. Your argument is equivalent to people who claim if a power lets them move, it overrides being Immobilized. Exception based design doesn't work that way.

Explication requires specificity.


Agree.

 
It doesn't specifically override the hybrid restrictions, so it doesn't.


It very much DOES override the hybrid restrictions.

The restriction is Avenger/Avenger PP melee attack powers.  That excludes even the avenger RBA.

The feat adds ALL RBAs.  Which includes the avenger RBA as well as any other RBA the avenger has.
 

Your argument is equivalent to people who claim if a power lets them move, it overrides being Immobilized.


No it isn't.  And depending on the power, it would override being immobilzed such as using ethereal stride or ethereal sidestep.  Both of those would override being immobilized.  But that is not the topic nor does bringing it up change what we are discussing.


Exception based design doesn't work that way.


Exception based design requires an exception.  The feat is the exception to the way both the original OoE and the Hybrid OoE work.

The feat does what it says it does which is allow you to use "all RBAs" with OoE.    To say otherwise is pick and choose what you want but it is not RAW as RAW is "all RBAs with OoE".
It is the exact nature of your argument. The benefit of Hybrid OoE is that for Avenger and Avenger PP powers only you get to roll twice. You get this benefit, restrictions included, on all RBAs. Which means you get it on RBAs that are Avenger or Avenger PP powers. Period. Nothing else is a valid interpretation, without making up wording that isn't there or failing to understand how SvG actually works.
It is not the exact nature of the argument and even then I pointed out the flaw in your statement.

The benefit of OoE is that you get to roll twice for melee attacks on your OoE target.  The restriction that Hybrid places on OoE is that melee attacks must be Avenger/Avenger PP powers to trigger it.

The feat states that you get the benefits of OoE on all ranged basic attack powers that target your OoE target, as long as it is within 10 squares and no enemy is adjacent to you.  There are NO further restrictions on it.

The restriction of Hybrid OoE is ONLY for melee attacks.  To say it is more is making up wording as you put it.

OoE is melee attacks only.  Hybrid adds a restriction to what melee attacks trigger it.  Distant Vengeance provides an EXCEPTION in that it allows ALL RBAs to trigger OoE.  There are no restrictions on what RBAs trigger it.

The sentence is "... apply the effect only when you make a melee attack using an avenger power or an avenger paragon path power."  You cannot substitute or add RBAs anywhere in that sentence because the sentence refers to melee attacks.

Hybrid OoE:
Melee attacks?  Only if they are an avenger/avenger PP power
Ranged attacks? Only if you have distant vengence and they are an RBA+no enemy adjacent+within 10 squares

General Hybrid OoE: gain OoE on all melee attacks using avenger/avenger PP powers
Specific DV feat: gain OoE against your OoE target with ALL ranged basic attacks

To add avenger/avenger PP to the feat is making up wording.  The feat does what it says.  The feature does what it says.  Hybrid rules state that you apply game options as though it was the full feature.  Since the feat is not clear about how it is applied to the the hybrid feature, we need to go by the hybrid rules which states that you treat it as the full-fledge feature for applying game options, in this case the feat.  And the feat states that OoE is applied to all RBAs.

You are the one making up wording by insisting that there is a restriction on the feat that is NOT there.  You are ignoring the hybrid rule that states you apply game options as though it was a full-fledged feature.
It is, your correction is in error, which is no surprise, given your entire argument is flawed and you don't understand why. The two are exactly equivalent. You simply don't understand how SvG works.

The benefit of your OoE is that it only works on Avenger and Avenger PP powers. That is the OoE a hybrid has. Since DV provides no specific overriding exception to the hybrid rules, which it would have to do for SvG to apply, it doesn't override anything.

Can we just go with "it depends on how you define 'the benefit of your oath of enmity'" and be done with it?

If "the benefit" is another way of saying "the roll-twice part" then DV is completely divorced from all restrictions that may be on OoE, and a hybrid can use it on all RBAs because it's not actually OoE, it's just a similar feature.

If "the benefit" refers to the entire effect of OoE, only specifically overriding the melee part for RBAs, then it still has to abide by the hybrid restrictions and DV only lets a hybrid use it with Avenging Shackles.

And since there is no real guidance on what the phrase "the benefit of your oath of enmity" is referring to, we're back to ETV.
Benefit of your OoE. Your OoE is the hybrid OoE. This is crystal clear unless you want to cheat, frankly.
I have reread the hybrid rules, the avenger, and the hybrid avenger and realized I came to the correct conclusion but was wrong for the reason why.

It is, your correction is in error, which is no surprise, given your entire argument is flawed and you don't understand why. The two are exactly equivalent. You simply don't understand how SvG works.

The benefit of your OoE is that it only works on Avenger and Avenger PP powers. That is the OoE a hybrid has. Since DV provides no specific overriding exception to the hybrid rules, which it would have to do for SvG to apply, it doesn't override anything.




You need to reread the hybrid avenger.  Specifically the part where it states that you have the OoE power.

I will state it here to make it clear so that you know what I am refering to.

PHB 3 pg 140:  Oath of Emnity(Hybrid) -- "You gain the avenger power oath of emnity.  The power functions as normal, except that you can apply the effect only when you make a melee attack using an avenger or avenger paragon path power."

So the only OoE I see that the hybrid avenger has is the exact same OoE as a normal avenger has except that you can only use the effect with melee attacks from avenger/avenger PP powers.  It is the same power but a different class feature and it is the class feature that limits when you can use the power.  The feat allows you to use the power with ALL ranged basic attacks.

Benefit of your OoE. Your OoE is the hybrid OoE. This is crystal clear unless you want to cheat, frankly.



There is NO hybrid OoE power.  There is only ONE OoE power.  The benefit of your OoE is the exact same as the regular avenger OoE.  So it has the same benefits, namely, roll twice and use either one, etc., etc.  This is crystal clear unless you want to cheat, frankly.



To restate and clarify my point.

Avenger: Oath of emnity class feature gives you the oath of emnity power.
Hybrid Avenger: Oath of emnity(hybrid) class feature gives you the oath of emnity power but states you can only use the effect on melee attacks from avenger/avenger PP powers

The feat allows you to use the benefits of your oath of emnity on all ranged attacks against your oath of emnity target.  The fact that the feat mentions a target tells me that it is refering to the oath of emnity power.  Since both hybrid avenger and regular avenger have the SAME oath of emnity power, then the feat applies the same.  It ignores the hybrid class feature restriction because it is specific in that you use the benefits of the power when you make ranged basic attacks.  The hybrid restriction limits when the power triggers, that is ALL it does.  It does NOT modify the power in anyway.  The effect is STILL the same.

The feat specifically states you get the benefits of your OoE with all ranged basic attacks, provided the target is your OoE target, is within 10 squares, and no other enemy is adjacent to you.  Your OoE is the exact same OoE that is listed under the standard avenger, regardless of whether you are a hybrid or not.

SvG: Distant Vengeance specifically overrides the general OoE power(which is what both the hybrid and standard avenger has).  This is crystal clear unless you want to cheat, frankly.
And, again, the hybrid OoE has a specific rule that restricts how it can be used. That is the OoE you have as a hybrid. DV does not specifically override this rule, so SvG does not apply.

Christ. Good job on figuring out you were wrong, bad job on finding a new way to be wrong.
And, again, the hybrid OoE class feature has a specific rule that restricts how it can be used when the effect of the power can be applied. That is the OoE class feature you have as a hybrid. DV does not need to specifically override this rule, so SvG does not apply.




Made a few changes to correct your errors.  And they are errors unless they are omissions which are just as incorrect.

You keep focusing on the hybrid class feature.  I am not.  Because it is not about the class feature.  It is about the power and the benefits of that power.  The hybrid class feature modifies when you can apply the effect of the power.  It does not change the benefits of that power.

There is only ONE OoE power.  No matter what you say, it does not change the fact that there is only one OoE power.

The feat applies the OoE power's benefit to all ranged basic attacks you make.  It does not matter about the class feature restrictions because it only looks at the benefit of the OoE power rather than the class feature.
 
The power has restrictions, based on the hybrid rules it comes with. I am focusing on the rules. Try it, you might figure out why you're wrong (again) only this time you might come up with the right answer afterwards.
Until you can show where the hybrid class feature changes the actual benefit of the power, that is roll twice with all the other verbage of the power, I will not agree.  I have made my case.  All you have done is repeatedly state that I am wrong without any evidence to support your statement. 

Fact 1:  Hybrid OoE power and Standard OoE power are the same therefore the benefits of OoE are the same for hybrid and standard.
Fact 2:  The hybrid class feature restricts the use of the effect of the power, without changing the benefits of the power
Fact 3:  The feat states you get the benefits of the power with all RBAs provided the other parts of the feat are met
Conclusion:  The hybrid avenger, with the feat, gets the benefits of OoE on all melee attacks from avenger/avenger PP powers AND all RBAs regardless of origin 

Inspiring word is still the same power, it just has usage restrictions.
OoE is still the same power, it just has usage restrictions.

The class feature even states it functions as normal.  Meaning the benefits of the power do not change.  The only restriction is on usage.  The feat states you get the benefits of the power on all ranged basic attacks.  Which is a specific change to the usage of the power since initially it is melee attacks and then it is melee attacks from avenger/avenger PP powers.  But the benefit of the power does not change and that is the benefit that you get on all ranged basic attacks.

The feat says nothing about any restrictions beyond what is listed in the feat therefore it does not have restrictions beyond what is listed in the feat.  

Being able to use the benefit of OoE on ALL ranged attack powers is a specific override of the general hybrid restriction of melee attacks only from avenger/avenger PP powers. 
....Really? It is under the hybrid rules for Avengers, where it gives it some pretty specific restrictions. That is an idiotic question. DV refers to your OoE. Guess what? As a hybrid, your OoE comes with some specific rules! Which you have to obey. Unless a game element specifically says you don't have to obey them. That is how exception based design works. Does DV say "This overrides the restrictions of hybrid OoE"? Anywhere? No? Then you're wrong.

Assuming you had any clue about 4e works you'd have been able to realize how terrible your argument is, because the reason you are wrong is dead simple if you understand the system. It is exactly equivalent to saying "It doesn't matter if I'm immobilized, the power says I can move!" Exception based design is not hard to understand. It requires that things specifically say they override something.
Yet again, you keep refering to the hybrid OoE as though it is a power.  It is not a power.  It is a class feature.  There is only ONE OoE power.  The benefits of which are spelled out and known.  So "your OoE"(which you should actually say that is the power you are talking about because otherwise you are not being clear) is the same OoE it always is.  The restriction is on usage

The very FIRST line of the OoE(Hybrid) line states: "You gain the avenger power oath of emnity(Player's Handbook 2, page 34)."  Meaning it is the same power with the same benefit.  So the benefit of the hybrid OoE class feature is the exact same as the standard OoE class feature.  It even says that it functions normally.

Lets try to look at specific vs general yet again.

The general rule is that OoE(the power) is ONLY, I will repeat it, ONLY for melee attacks.  The specific rule is a restriction the hybrid class feature places on it is what melee attacks, because you know, there is nothing about ranged attacks in the power, trigger the OoE power.

The very fact that it takes the BENEFIT of the power(OoE) and applies it to ranged attacks removes the hybrid restriction because the hybrid restriction is ONLY for MELEE ATTACKS.  If the feat said, you can add ranged basic attacks to what can trigger OoE, then yes you would be correct.  But it does not.  It specifically states you get the benefit of the power.  Heck, it does not even say you USE the power, just the benefit of it.  How could you fall under the restrictions of using a power when you don't use it?

Does the hybrid OoE class feature mention ranged attack powers(basic or not) as part of the restriction? Anywhere? No?  Then you are wrong.

 
And yet again, if the power in question is a power that allows you to teleport, then guess what, "It doesn't matter if I'm immobilized, the power says I can move!" would allow me to move.  Please stop bringing up this last argument, I am losing respect for your side everytime you do.

Edited.
I'm refering to as if it has rules associated with it that restrict it. Which it does. Restrictions which you're ignoring. Christ, this is not complicated.

Teleport =! moving. I was specific in what I said. Just like the rules, though since you didn't read those correctly either I shouldn't be all that surprised.
Alcestis used to think both were actually specific vs general in the past and had no concrete answer.

This topic has been heavily debated for a long, long time. There is no concrete answer. Ask your DM. 

The gist of both arguments comes down to specific vs specific, which is why there isn't a way to deal with it.

Hybrid Avenger OoE: Only applies to Avenger Powers. Specific. 

Distant Vengance: OoE applies to all RBAs. Specifc.

Which one wins? General vs Specific is easy, specific wins. Specific vs Specific has no method of resolution by RAW. 

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

This slapfight is starting to get a little silly, so here's a 3rd party take on the argument:

Here's the rule at the core of the debate:

OATH OF ENMITY (HYBRID)
You gain the avenger power oath of enmity. The power functions as normal, except that you can apply the effect only when you make a melee attack using an avenger power or an avenger paragon path power.

What's essentially at debate here is whether :
A) the wording "melee attack" above is a strict restriction in addition to the "avenger power" limitation that must be specifically overwritten to be removed, or
B)  Is it simply a redundancy with the text of Oath of Enmity which on its own normally applies only to melee attacks, and the text of the power as written for the Hybrid Avenger also includes that "melee attack" limitation within its own text. So the text above is just reiterating the that Oath of Enmity applies to melee Avenger powers only.

 The best answer here is to expect table variation and ask your DM.  Those who see it as a strict limitation (Alcestis) will say that Distant Vengence does not work for Hybrid Avengers.  Those who read it as a redundancy (Koshinuke) will say Distant Vengence does work for Hybrid Avengers.


Alcestis used to think both were actually specific vs general in the past and had no concrete answer.

And....? I was wrong, I corrected myself. Pretty straight forward, two years gives people more time to look at the rules.

Kosh is just failing to read. The fact that the hybrid restriction doesn't rewrite the power doesn't make it magically not exist. You get the power with restrictions on how you are allowed to apply the effect of rolling twice. Oh, also, Kosh, "Use" has a specific definition in 4e, you've been using it wrong for your entire argument. Worth noting.
I have been going over and over it.  I realized, after rereading the feat, that everyone of us, even me, has it wrong.  I pointed to the reason why in my last post.

You do not use OoE with Distant Vengence.  Not at any point.  You only get the benefits of itBecause you never use the power, any restrictions on the use of the power do not matter. 

It does not matter that whether you are hybrid or a full avenger.  The benefit of OoE is the same.  And the benefit is roll twice with all the limitations that come with rolling twice.

So it comes down to this:
Is the target within 10? yes
Is there no other enemy adjacent to you? yes
Is the target your OoE target? yes
Is the power you are using a RBA? yes
Result: You get the benefit of OoE on that target

There is no other way to interpret the feat and have it work.  It is the same for both hybrid and standard because they have the SAME OoE power with the SAME benefit.

Edit: "Use" does have a specific definition and it is NOT found anywhere in the feat.  The feat makes it very clear that you only gain the benefit of OoE, NOT "use" the OoE power.
So close! And yet so far. Yes, you were wrong, unfortunately you're still wrong.

You get the benefit if your OoE on that target. As in, the OoE you have. Restrictions included, because they part of YOUR OoE.

The restrictions aren't on the use of the power (which you'd know, if you'd read them). It is on applying the effect of the power (rolling twice). You cannot roll twice except for Avenger and Avenger PP powers. Period. End. Unless something specifically overrides this restriction, which DV does not do.
I'm refering to as if it has rules associated with it that restrict it. Which it does. Restrictions which you're ignoring. Christ, this is not complicated.

Teleport =! moving. I was specific in what I said. Just like the rules, though since you didn't read those correctly either I shouldn't be all that surprised.



So teleport, from one square to another, does not equal moving?

RC pg 200 under Key Terms
move: "... Whenever a creature ... leaves a square to enter another it is moving.  Shifting, teleporting, and being pushed are all examples of moves."

Teleport is a move based on the RC.  Now you are saying the RC is wrong to support your argument.  I read them exactly how you posted them.  "The power says I can move so I can move even though I am immobilized!" to paraphrase your statement.  And I brought up two powers that allow you to do just that even if you are immobilized and now you say I am wrong.  Teleportation does not necessarily end the immobilization but it does allow you to move.
Not by the definition I was using, no. You might have missed that some terms in 4e have more than one definition. If you'd ever read the rules, you might know that.
So close! And yet so far. Yes, you were wrong, unfortunately you're still wrong.

You get the benefit if your OoE power on that target. As in, the OoE power you have. Restrictions not included, because they part of YOUR OoE class feature but not the power.

The restrictions aren't on the use of the power (which you'd know, if you'd read them). It is on applying the effect of the power (rolling twice). You cannot roll twice except for melee attacks from Avenger and Avenger PP powers. Period. End. Unless something specifically overrides this restriction, which DV does not do.



Had to make a few corrections because you are ommitting a few things.
 
I will state this again.  It has nothing to do with the use of the power.  It is not even on applying the effect of the power.  It is on the "benefit" of the power.  And what is the benefit?  Rolling twice.

The restrictions are NOT part of the OoE power.  It is part of the hybrid OoE class feature.  The benefits of the power NEVER CHANGE.  The class feature only restricts the application of the effect of the power to melee attacks from avenger/avenger PP powers.

Please please please show me the hybrid OoE power that has these restrictions on it. 

You can't because there ISN'T one.  There is only a single OoE power with a single benefit.  THAT is what gets passed to the feat.
The restrictions always apply. Christ. You are so far wrong you're just deluding yourself. You can't just ignore the restrictions on the power when you are trying to benefit from the power. That is a Munchkin fallacy, incidentally. "The rules don't say the restrictions on the power always apply to the power!" Except, of course, they do say exactly that.

You only have the power because of the class feature and the class feature has restrictions.
The restrictions always apply. Christ. You are so far wrong you're just deluding yourself. You can't just ignore the restrictions on the power when you are trying to benefit from the power. That is a Munchkin fallacy, incidentally. "The rules don't say the restrictions on the power always apply to the power!" Except, of course, they do say exactly that.

You only have the power because of the class feature and the class feature has restrictions.



Restrictions always apply unless a specific rule changes it you mean.  And you can ignore restrictions on a power if a specific rule says you can.  For example, you roll once on melee attacks.  OoE power states that you can roll twice on melee attacks.

Hybrid OoE:
You have the oath of emnity power. <-- em="">Grants you the standard OoE power
The power functions normally.  <-- em="">Functions the exact same as the standard OoE power
You can only apply the effect of the power to melee attacks that are avenger/avenger PP powers.  <-- em="">states that you can only apply the effect of the power on avenger/avenger PP powers, does NOT affect the use of the power

I fail to see where in there that the benefit of OoE gets changed for the hybrid avenger.

There is only ONE benefit. Period.  That benefit is to roll twice.  That benefit is what is passed.  Even "your OoE" only has one benefit.

Distant Vengeance gets the "benefit" of "your OoE power" and the benefit of the OoE power is to roll twice.

The class feature has restrictions but the power does not.  The power DOES NOT change.  Since the power does not change, the BENEFIT of the power does not change.  It is the benefit of the power that the feat gets.

Since you do not use the power or even apply the effect of the power, it does not fall under the restrictions because the restrictions state what they affect which is melee attack powers and it restricts you from applying the effect of the OoE power to only being able to apply it to melee attacks that are avenger/avenger PP powers.
I am not refering to a power that doesn't exist. I am referencing the rules about how you got that power. Which you have to obey as a consequence and you aren't obeying them. 
I am not refering to a power that doesn't exist. I am referencing the rules about how you got that power. Which you have to obey as a consequence and you aren't obeying them.



The rules about how you got that power have NOTHING to do with the benefits of that power.

RAW:

Hybrid OoE:
You have the oath of emnity power. <-- note:="" em="">NO change in the benefit of the power 
The power functions normally.  <-- note:="" em="">NO change in the benefit of the power
You can apply the effect only when you make a melee attack using an avenger/avenger PP powers.  <-- note:="" em="">restriction on the application of the effect, NO change in the benefit of the power
^^^^^^^^^^
All taken directly from PHB 3.  None of which alters the benefit of the OoE power  
  
The benefit of the your OoE power: Roll twice, use either one, etc.
Distant Vengeance: Gain the benefit of your OoE power with all ranged basic attacks against your OoE target provided they are within 10 squares and no other enemy is adjacent to you

The benefit of OoE is the EXACT same for both hybrid and standard avengers.  The feat has NOTHING to do with using the OoE power or applying the effect of the OoE power, if it did mention applying the effect then it would fall under the restriction because the hybrid class feature limits the application of the effect.  The feat only deals with gaining the benefits of the OoE power on all RBAs.  Nothing more, nothing less.  To say it is more is actually another version of the munchkin fallacy.

More accurately,you commit the Munchkin Fallacy when you interpret a rule based on something that is not said(or the fact that it is not said), and claiming it to be RAW.

Not said: the feat applies the effect of the OoE power
Not said: the hybrid class feature applies to all attacks, not just melee attacks
Not said: the hybrid class feature changes the benefit of the OoE power   
You're ignoring rules.

It isn't about you get the power. They state under what circumstances you are allowed to use the benefit of the power. The same benefit that DV is using, except it can't because the hybrid rules are crytal clear. Assuming you read them, rather than ignoring them. 
You're ignoring rules. 

It isn't about you get the power. They state under what circumstances you are allowed to use the benefit apply the effect of the power. The same benefit that DV is using says you gain, except it can't because the hybrid rules are crytal clear. Assuming you read them, rather than ignoring them.



No.  You keep ommitting words to try to make your point.  DV interacts with the power.  Hybrid OoE is NOT a power, it is a class feature.  The hybrid class feature states when you can apply the effect of the power.  The feat does NOT "use" the benefit, it does NOT "use" the power, it does NOT "apply" the effect.

The hybrid class feature states when you apply the effect of the power.  To say it does ANYTHING else is to not follow the rules.

The effect of the power is: "When you make a melee attack against the target..." and it states what the benefit of the power is.

The benefit of the power is to roll twice, use either result.

DV states that "you gain the benefit of your oath of emnity on all ranged basic attacks against your oath of emnity target."
  
Effect has a specific meaning in terms of a power.

Everything I am stating is RAW and is backed up by RAW.  You are omitting words and claiming things that are not in the rules.

"gain the benefit" != "apply the effect"

Because "gain the benefit" does not equal "apply the effect" the restrictions to "applying the effect" do not affect "gain the benefit".