Of control decks and play skill (Newer players recommended to read!)

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I wrote this originally in the Mask of the Dimir thread in specific defence of that deck, but the advice applies to control decks in general, which can factor in to certain builds of DW, FW, MMz, and possible future decks as well, so I figure I'll leave it here (by request of Hakeem928) for people to link to/discuss/refer to.

Bad players always think control decks are bad because they lack the skills to properly utilise the tools given them. I know I was one of, if not the first, to start defending this deck, and predict that the discard would be relevant for wrecking CMD/EtD.

Bit of a treatise here, experienced players feel free to skip except to maybe double check my logic.

Skills people lack when condeming control decks as bad/weak.

1) Threat assessment. Part of the thing about making removal effective is knowing how to use it. Far too often I see people throwing removal at the first things that mildly inconvenience them. That can work for an aggro deck, but for control, you need to save removal for the stuff that counts, because the game is going to last longer. You're not going for a swift kill, so just firing off Last Gasp so you can swing in for two damage is ultimately pretty dumb, unless it's the last two damage. When considering what to kill, power and toughness should not be the only factor, especially if your life total is fairly high. More often creatures with special abilities make for better targets. Creatures which are themselves capable of removal (Fiend Hunter, Gelectrode, Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief), and the like) or card draw (Mentor of the Meek, Kor Spiritdancer, Dimir Guildmage and others) are deserving of immediate attention. And by attention, I mean evisceration.

Also of note is growing creatures like Champion of the Parish, Scute Mob, or others; if you have Instant speed removal, you may be able to risk letting them grow a bit and getting the opponent to invest extra energy in them before killing them, but if you're low on it, or high on Sorcery speed removal (or both, if you're playing Firewave as control), then don't "wait and see." Use Pillar of Flame that first turn if playing second. If the second turn is Gather the Townsfolk, you're now forced to use a better removal spell on what could have been a small threat - and there's 4x Gather, so there's about a 40% chance they'll have it turn two.

2) Knowledge of what's in every deck. This is essential to playing a control deck well, and ties into the first point. If you have a good approximation of what's in every deck, you know which threats are the biggest ones to you, and which of your removal spells are best for dealing with which threats and in what order, should you happen to get a choice in the matter. I've made a few references to a game I played with a control build of DW, and one of the things I've left out of it was that both my opponents kept praising/accusing me of being able to predict all their moves/read their minds. I'm not that good, but you can often pick up on little clues like how much mana people leave untapped. If you know their decks well, you know what options that leaves them, which means you can narrow down what possible actions they can take.

3) The ability to plan ahead. Often when playing control, you need to be able to make an educated guess of what the game state will look like as far as four turns ahead of time based on what actions you do or don't take, and how likely those actions are to affect other possibilities. As you might guess, this is a rather involved and complex business, so of course it's going to be far beyond the ken of newer players, which is fine. A finely-tuned, well-piloted control deck is a bag full of answers. Your opponents can riddle you all they like, but so long as you keep having all the right answers, you'll stay ahead. Wizards isn't the best with providing finely-tuned decks in DotP, but good piloting can make up for a lot. But in this particular example, it's things like considering when using Dimir Guildmage's abilities are more or less important than other actions you might take, knowing when to use Sleep, predicting which creature is going to have the most impact if copied by Evil Twin or Stolen Identity, et cetera.

4) Knowledge of your own deck. This includes absolute memorisation of the contents of your deck; knowing at most or all times your approximate chance of drawing the cards you need to either eliminate a threat or start ending the game, and the ability to plan ahead based on what you're likely to see come up. And yes, all of these things do inter-relate to an extent, which is why most people don't gravitate towards control decks in their first couple of years playing; it takes a lot of time to develop all these skills, particularly if you haven't developed them in any other kind of game like Chess. Again, speaking in a relevant fashion, this includes having a good idea of how likely you are to see any remaining Last Gasps, when is a good or bad time to lay down a Moroii, knowing when to play Mark of the Vampire if you run it (generally on a turn when there's a low to zero chance someone can respond with Instant removal, based on knowledge of what lands they have untapped and their Instant speed removal options) so that you can guarantee getting at least one hit in, and so forth.

And there's probably even more than these factors that I'm not thinking to include right now, but 1) this post is long enough and 2) there's sufficient here to explain why newer players are almost automatically guaranteed to think this deck is bad, because they have little to no idea how to build it or play it, due in part to the fact that being the one deck which is pretty much only going to have control options, it automatically plays and builds differently than every other 2014 deck currently.

Wizards: If it isn't game design, we can't do it right. Frankly, we're kind of shaky on the game design sometimes too.

I wrote this originally in the Mask of the Dimir thread in specific defence of that deck, but the advice applies to control decks in general, which can factor in to certain builds of DW, FW, MMz, and possible future decks as well, so I figure I'll leave it here (by request of Hakeem928) for people to link to/discuss/refer to.



It can factor in to Sliver Hive too. 

Glad you posted this here too, it's not something that should be tucked away in the dimir thread like that. 

Duels of the Planeswalkers deck builds and analysis: http://megamaster125.angelfire.com/dotp

 

Another one of my websites: http://megamaster125.angelfire.com/rationalchristianity/

 

I am Blue/White

Good post and worth the read for many newer folks. I'm starting to worry about you, GoA....
This is the proof that GoA has, beyond that cape of hatred for bad design decks and whales, a heart.

WotC doesn't care about flavor. Their forum is the only place where an ORC can kill a troll...

Lost around 120 posts in the forum migration

Post #1000 on Feb 02, 2013

Post #2000 on Sep 04, 2013

I have linked this to the second post in Technical issues.

Cheers!

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

Mastergear_Owen's take on Magic 2014 Campaign.

Show
You know what I've got more issues. Whats up with the story in this game? The adverts said I was going to team up with Chandra and we were going to kick butt and chew bubblegum across the planes on a revenge campaign against some... guy she knew I guess? Who's Ramaz anyway? What do I get instead? I beat Chandra like 2 minutes in with a mono-green stompy thing Garruk gave me (why does he keep giving all these new planeswalkers his deck) and then I spent like 5 hours jumping from plane to plane picking up random nicknacks for her mantlepiece while she sits back back doing her nails or something. I was thrown in jail! I got hit by a Roil Storm twice! Do you know how many rats are on Ravnica, Chandra? All of them! All of the rats! All of the rats eating me!

Then we go kick her Ex's bearded-screaming-butt and what does she do to help? Nothing! She throws of the occasional fire ball and spends her time trying not to freeze to death. You should have worn pants Chandra. While we're on the subject what happened to your shoes? You had like Steelies on. Steelies are cool. Now your running around with stupid boots with like 5-inch heels? Thats not appropriate footware for Planeswalking! That's not appropriate footware for normal walking! At least Liliana is doing it for the whole 'evil is sexy' thing and can summon undead to carry her when she breaks her ankle. What are you going to do ride a Phoenix? Its made of fire! You'll fall right through! Man I should have gone Planeswalking with Liliana - yeah she'd crack my head open with a rock 5 minutes in and raise my corpse to serve her but at least we could have gone dancing!

Now with more original content and open bar!

https://www.youtube.com/user/thedevilwuster

This is the proof that GoA has, beyond that cape of hatred for bad design decks and whales, a heart.



Some of my exes might dispute that claim. Sometimes I think the boards here get a false impression of me. At heart, I seek to enlighten people. That is why a great many of my posts are basically "you're wrong about x." I admit, I am not always kind in presenting this. Truth of the matter is that I delight in few things more than educating people, because I am aware it is within my capacity to learn things more easily than most. Thing is, I have extremely low tolerance for willful ignorance, belligerent stupidity, and trolls. This being the internet, we have more than our fair share of all such things, so I probably come off more combative than I do in real life, where I have often given away ideas to people that might have been worth thousands or even millions simply because I desired to enlighten them and make their lives easier. I know certain of my past employers have made more off of ideas I presented to them than I've made my entire life.

I have linked this to the second post in Technical issues.

Cheers!



Thanks muchly, glad to be of service.

Wizards: If it isn't game design, we can't do it right. Frankly, we're kind of shaky on the game design sometimes too.

I asked drifter to post it in his thread under useful topics.
I wish I could have had something like this to read when I was starting out.
Who knows, instead of the devil, I could have been the dictator.

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

Mastergear_Owen's take on Magic 2014 Campaign.

Show
You know what I've got more issues. Whats up with the story in this game? The adverts said I was going to team up with Chandra and we were going to kick butt and chew bubblegum across the planes on a revenge campaign against some... guy she knew I guess? Who's Ramaz anyway? What do I get instead? I beat Chandra like 2 minutes in with a mono-green stompy thing Garruk gave me (why does he keep giving all these new planeswalkers his deck) and then I spent like 5 hours jumping from plane to plane picking up random nicknacks for her mantlepiece while she sits back back doing her nails or something. I was thrown in jail! I got hit by a Roil Storm twice! Do you know how many rats are on Ravnica, Chandra? All of them! All of the rats! All of the rats eating me!

Then we go kick her Ex's bearded-screaming-butt and what does she do to help? Nothing! She throws of the occasional fire ball and spends her time trying not to freeze to death. You should have worn pants Chandra. While we're on the subject what happened to your shoes? You had like Steelies on. Steelies are cool. Now your running around with stupid boots with like 5-inch heels? Thats not appropriate footware for Planeswalking! That's not appropriate footware for normal walking! At least Liliana is doing it for the whole 'evil is sexy' thing and can summon undead to carry her when she breaks her ankle. What are you going to do ride a Phoenix? Its made of fire! You'll fall right through! Man I should have gone Planeswalking with Liliana - yeah she'd crack my head open with a rock 5 minutes in and raise my corpse to serve her but at least we could have gone dancing!

Now with more original content and open bar!

https://www.youtube.com/user/thedevilwuster

"1) Threat assessment. Part of the thing about making removal effective is knowing how to use it. Far too often I see people throwing removal at the first things that mildly inconvenience them. That can work for an aggro deck, but for control, you need to save removal for the stuff that counts, because the game is going to last longer. You're not going for a swift kill, so just firing off Last Gasp so you can swing in for two damage is ultimately pretty dumb, unless it's the last two damage."

Depends on the quality of removal and what you're trying to achieve.  If it's just a [C] Blister Beetle[/C] then feel free to waste it on a [C] Mourning Thrull[/C].  Obviously 99% of the time you shouldn't [C]Murder[/C] a [C] Raging Goblin[/C].
This is the proof that GoA has, beyond that cape of hatred for bad design decks and whales, a heart.



Some of my exes might dispute that claim. Sometimes I think the boards here get a false impression of me. At heart, I seek to enlighten people. That is why a great many of my posts are basically "you're wrong about x." I admit, I am not always kind in presenting this. Truth of the matter is that I delight in few things more than educating people, because I am aware it is within my capacity to learn things more easily than most. Thing is, I have extremely low tolerance for willful ignorance, belligerent stupidity, and trolls. This being the internet, we have more than our fair share of all such things, so I probably come off more combative than I do in real life, where I have often given away ideas to people that might have been worth thousands or even millions simply because I desired to enlighten them and make their lives easier. I know certain of my past employers have made more off of ideas I presented to them than I've made my entire life.





#leavegoaalone

I'm starting it right now, guys

WotC doesn't care about flavor. Their forum is the only place where an ORC can kill a troll...

Lost around 120 posts in the forum migration

Post #1000 on Feb 02, 2013

Post #2000 on Sep 04, 2013

Sometimes I think the boards here get a false impression of me. At heart, I seek to enlighten people. That is why a great many of my posts are basically "you're wrong about x." I admit, I am not always kind in presenting this. Truth of the matter is that I delight in few things more than educating people, because I am aware it is within my capacity to learn things more easily than most.



Some advice, people will more often take your advice more readily if you present it in a (how should I say this?) more presentable way. Yeah, you'll still get those stuborn people, because they always exist, but you'll get a lot less confrontation and a lot more readily acceptance. As some say, "perception is reality." If people perceive you as coming off rude and argumentitive, it doesn't matter that you and I know your intentions are good, what matters is their perception.

Duels of the Planeswalkers deck builds and analysis: http://megamaster125.angelfire.com/dotp

 

Another one of my websites: http://megamaster125.angelfire.com/rationalchristianity/

 

I am Blue/White

Sometimes I think the boards here get a false impression of me. At heart, I seek to enlighten people. That is why a great many of my posts are basically "you're wrong about x." I admit, I am not always kind in presenting this. Truth of the matter is that I delight in few things more than educating people, because I am aware it is within my capacity to learn things more easily than most.



Some advice, people will more often take your advice more readily if you present it in a (how should I say this?) more presentable way. Yeah, you'll still get those stuborn people, because they always exist, but you'll get a lot less confrontation and a lot more readily acceptance. As some say, "perception is reality." If people perceive you as coming off rude and argumentitive, it doesn't matter that you and I know your intentions are good, what matters is their perception.




That's why I respect him. He doesn't cowtow to others perceptions.

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

Mastergear_Owen's take on Magic 2014 Campaign.

Show
You know what I've got more issues. Whats up with the story in this game? The adverts said I was going to team up with Chandra and we were going to kick butt and chew bubblegum across the planes on a revenge campaign against some... guy she knew I guess? Who's Ramaz anyway? What do I get instead? I beat Chandra like 2 minutes in with a mono-green stompy thing Garruk gave me (why does he keep giving all these new planeswalkers his deck) and then I spent like 5 hours jumping from plane to plane picking up random nicknacks for her mantlepiece while she sits back back doing her nails or something. I was thrown in jail! I got hit by a Roil Storm twice! Do you know how many rats are on Ravnica, Chandra? All of them! All of the rats! All of the rats eating me!

Then we go kick her Ex's bearded-screaming-butt and what does she do to help? Nothing! She throws of the occasional fire ball and spends her time trying not to freeze to death. You should have worn pants Chandra. While we're on the subject what happened to your shoes? You had like Steelies on. Steelies are cool. Now your running around with stupid boots with like 5-inch heels? Thats not appropriate footware for Planeswalking! That's not appropriate footware for normal walking! At least Liliana is doing it for the whole 'evil is sexy' thing and can summon undead to carry her when she breaks her ankle. What are you going to do ride a Phoenix? Its made of fire! You'll fall right through! Man I should have gone Planeswalking with Liliana - yeah she'd crack my head open with a rock 5 minutes in and raise my corpse to serve her but at least we could have gone dancing!

Now with more original content and open bar!

https://www.youtube.com/user/thedevilwuster

#leavegoaalone

I'm starting it right now, guys



*Laughs.* It's not as though I don't have days where I'm an absolute bastard every waking moment. I'll be the first to admit that. I am not, how you say, always of a sympathetic mind. Perhaps this anecdote will explain me some;

Once I was out with a ladyfriend and she was shopping for clothes. She, of course, either out of sheer perversity, love of cliche, or honest inquiry, asked me the question. Guys, you know the one I mean. You probably do too, Drone, although you don't strike me as the sort who'd ask it.

Now, my mind functions in a very logical and honest fashion, and does not often take into account peoples' feelings. This is one of the exes who might well describe me as heartless. Another had once said she was only assured I had a heart because I sometimes complained of heartburn. Anyhow, the point of this is that I could only find a singular honest reply, "No dear, your arse makes you look fat." Oddly, she didn't speak to me for three days after that.

Mind, this a very specific thing. Had she asked "How does this look?" or "Does this look alright?" I could have quite easily given her an answer which would have been honest, while also sparing her feelings. However, as she specifically asked "Does this make me look fat?" I was helpless to in any way give her an answer she wanted without betraying my own morality, and it's obvious which I valued more.

Wizards: If it isn't game design, we can't do it right. Frankly, we're kind of shaky on the game design sometimes too.

#leavegoaalone

I'm starting it right now, guys



*Laughs.* It's not as though I don't have days where I'm an absolute bastard every waking moment. I'll be the first to admit that. I am not, how you say, always of a sympathetic mind. Perhaps this anecdote will explain me some;

Once I was out with a ladyfriend and she was shopping for clothes. She, of course, either out of sheer perversity, love of cliche, or honest inquiry, asked me the question. Guys, you know the one I mean. You probably do too, Drone, although you don't strike me as the sort who'd ask it.

Now, my mind functions in a very logical and honest fashion, and does not often take into account peoples' feelings. This is one of the exes who might well describe me as heartless. Another had once said she was only assured I had a heart because I sometimes complained of heartburn. Anyhow, the point of this is that I could only find a singular honest reply, "No dear, your arse makes you look fat." Oddly, she didn't speak to me for three days after that.

Mind, this a very specific thing. Had she asked "How does this look?" or "Does this look alright?" I could have quite easily given her an answer which would have been honest, while also sparing her feelings. However, as she specifically asked "Does this make me look fat?" I was helpless to in any way give her an answer she wanted without betraying my own morality, and it's obvious which I valued more.




I now understand why you're a bachelor.
You can't be honest with women ALL the time.
And NEVER answer their rhetorical questions.

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

Mastergear_Owen's take on Magic 2014 Campaign.

Show
You know what I've got more issues. Whats up with the story in this game? The adverts said I was going to team up with Chandra and we were going to kick butt and chew bubblegum across the planes on a revenge campaign against some... guy she knew I guess? Who's Ramaz anyway? What do I get instead? I beat Chandra like 2 minutes in with a mono-green stompy thing Garruk gave me (why does he keep giving all these new planeswalkers his deck) and then I spent like 5 hours jumping from plane to plane picking up random nicknacks for her mantlepiece while she sits back back doing her nails or something. I was thrown in jail! I got hit by a Roil Storm twice! Do you know how many rats are on Ravnica, Chandra? All of them! All of the rats! All of the rats eating me!

Then we go kick her Ex's bearded-screaming-butt and what does she do to help? Nothing! She throws of the occasional fire ball and spends her time trying not to freeze to death. You should have worn pants Chandra. While we're on the subject what happened to your shoes? You had like Steelies on. Steelies are cool. Now your running around with stupid boots with like 5-inch heels? Thats not appropriate footware for Planeswalking! That's not appropriate footware for normal walking! At least Liliana is doing it for the whole 'evil is sexy' thing and can summon undead to carry her when she breaks her ankle. What are you going to do ride a Phoenix? Its made of fire! You'll fall right through! Man I should have gone Planeswalking with Liliana - yeah she'd crack my head open with a rock 5 minutes in and raise my corpse to serve her but at least we could have gone dancing!

Now with more original content and open bar!

https://www.youtube.com/user/thedevilwuster

#leavegoaalone

I'm starting it right now, guys



*Laughs.* It's not as though I don't have days where I'm an absolute bastard every waking moment. I'll be the first to admit that. I am not, how you say, always of a sympathetic mind. Perhaps this anecdote will explain me some;

Once I was out with a ladyfriend and she was shopping for clothes. She, of course, either out of sheer perversity, love of cliche, or honest inquiry, asked me the question. Guys, you know the one I mean. You probably do too, Drone, although you don't strike me as the sort who'd ask it.

Now, my mind functions in a very logical and honest fashion, and does not often take into account peoples' feelings. This is one of the exes who might well describe me as heartless. Another had once said she was only assured I had a heart because I sometimes complained of heartburn. Anyhow, the point of this is that I could only find a singular honest reply, "No dear, your arse makes you look fat." Oddly, she didn't speak to me for three days after that.

Mind, this a very specific thing. Had she asked "How does this look?" or "Does this look alright?" I could have quite easily given her an answer which would have been honest, while also sparing her feelings. However, as she specifically asked "Does this make me look fat?" I was helpless to in any way give her an answer she wanted without betraying my own morality, and it's obvious which I valued more.



That was terrible mistake. The obvious answer was to run as fast as you could to the nearest cave and hind under a rock for 3 days. Silly GoA

WotC doesn't care about flavor. Their forum is the only place where an ORC can kill a troll...

Lost around 120 posts in the forum migration

Post #1000 on Feb 02, 2013

Post #2000 on Sep 04, 2013

Oh, I knew it was a "mistake" socially before I even answered. I just have a very uncompromising set of morals that I apply chiefly to myself before daring to judge anyone else by them. I am far harder on myself than I've ever been to anyone else. Still, in the same situation, I'd give the same answer again no matter how much it hurt any woman or myself. I even see it as mostly her fault because of her choice of phraseology, but that's in part because I myself am so particular about communicating.

Still, as I said, I am often far less gentle than I could be. Even in this post, I start by saying "bad" players where I could just as easily have said "new." 

Wizards: If it isn't game design, we can't do it right. Frankly, we're kind of shaky on the game design sometimes too.

That's why I respect him. He doesn't cowtow to others perceptions.



I guess I'm just more interested in having people accept my advice than to ignore others perceptions. *shrug*

Duels of the Planeswalkers deck builds and analysis: http://megamaster125.angelfire.com/dotp

 

Another one of my websites: http://megamaster125.angelfire.com/rationalchristianity/

 

I am Blue/White

Still, as I said, I am often far less gentle than I could be. Even in this post, I start by saying "bad" players where I could just as easily have said "new." 



That's an example of what I mean.

Duels of the Planeswalkers deck builds and analysis: http://megamaster125.angelfire.com/dotp

 

Another one of my websites: http://megamaster125.angelfire.com/rationalchristianity/

 

I am Blue/White

That's why I respect him. He doesn't cowtow to others perceptions.



I guess I'm just more interested in having people accept my advice than to ignore others perceptions. *shrug*



No shrugs. Understand exactly where your head is at.

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

Mastergear_Owen's take on Magic 2014 Campaign.

Show
You know what I've got more issues. Whats up with the story in this game? The adverts said I was going to team up with Chandra and we were going to kick butt and chew bubblegum across the planes on a revenge campaign against some... guy she knew I guess? Who's Ramaz anyway? What do I get instead? I beat Chandra like 2 minutes in with a mono-green stompy thing Garruk gave me (why does he keep giving all these new planeswalkers his deck) and then I spent like 5 hours jumping from plane to plane picking up random nicknacks for her mantlepiece while she sits back back doing her nails or something. I was thrown in jail! I got hit by a Roil Storm twice! Do you know how many rats are on Ravnica, Chandra? All of them! All of the rats! All of the rats eating me!

Then we go kick her Ex's bearded-screaming-butt and what does she do to help? Nothing! She throws of the occasional fire ball and spends her time trying not to freeze to death. You should have worn pants Chandra. While we're on the subject what happened to your shoes? You had like Steelies on. Steelies are cool. Now your running around with stupid boots with like 5-inch heels? Thats not appropriate footware for Planeswalking! That's not appropriate footware for normal walking! At least Liliana is doing it for the whole 'evil is sexy' thing and can summon undead to carry her when she breaks her ankle. What are you going to do ride a Phoenix? Its made of fire! You'll fall right through! Man I should have gone Planeswalking with Liliana - yeah she'd crack my head open with a rock 5 minutes in and raise my corpse to serve her but at least we could have gone dancing!

Now with more original content and open bar!

https://www.youtube.com/user/thedevilwuster

No shrugs. Understand exactly where your head is at.



I know where my head is at, most of the time anyways.

Duels of the Planeswalkers deck builds and analysis: http://megamaster125.angelfire.com/dotp

 

Another one of my websites: http://megamaster125.angelfire.com/rationalchristianity/

 

I am Blue/White

No shrugs. Understand exactly where your head is at.



I know where my head is at, most of the time anyways.



It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

Mastergear_Owen's take on Magic 2014 Campaign.

Show
You know what I've got more issues. Whats up with the story in this game? The adverts said I was going to team up with Chandra and we were going to kick butt and chew bubblegum across the planes on a revenge campaign against some... guy she knew I guess? Who's Ramaz anyway? What do I get instead? I beat Chandra like 2 minutes in with a mono-green stompy thing Garruk gave me (why does he keep giving all these new planeswalkers his deck) and then I spent like 5 hours jumping from plane to plane picking up random nicknacks for her mantlepiece while she sits back back doing her nails or something. I was thrown in jail! I got hit by a Roil Storm twice! Do you know how many rats are on Ravnica, Chandra? All of them! All of the rats! All of the rats eating me!

Then we go kick her Ex's bearded-screaming-butt and what does she do to help? Nothing! She throws of the occasional fire ball and spends her time trying not to freeze to death. You should have worn pants Chandra. While we're on the subject what happened to your shoes? You had like Steelies on. Steelies are cool. Now your running around with stupid boots with like 5-inch heels? Thats not appropriate footware for Planeswalking! That's not appropriate footware for normal walking! At least Liliana is doing it for the whole 'evil is sexy' thing and can summon undead to carry her when she breaks her ankle. What are you going to do ride a Phoenix? Its made of fire! You'll fall right through! Man I should have gone Planeswalking with Liliana - yeah she'd crack my head open with a rock 5 minutes in and raise my corpse to serve her but at least we could have gone dancing!

Now with more original content and open bar!

https://www.youtube.com/user/thedevilwuster

No shrugs. Understand exactly where your head is at.



I know where my head is at, most of the time anyways.






Why do I get the feeling I'm missing some sort of joke here?

Duels of the Planeswalkers deck builds and analysis: http://megamaster125.angelfire.com/dotp

 

Another one of my websites: http://megamaster125.angelfire.com/rationalchristianity/

 

I am Blue/White

No shrugs. Understand exactly where your head is at.



I know where my head is at, most of the time anyways.






Why do I get the feeling I'm missing some sort of joke here?



Couldn't think of another better "head" emoticon.

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

Mastergear_Owen's take on Magic 2014 Campaign.

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You know what I've got more issues. Whats up with the story in this game? The adverts said I was going to team up with Chandra and we were going to kick butt and chew bubblegum across the planes on a revenge campaign against some... guy she knew I guess? Who's Ramaz anyway? What do I get instead? I beat Chandra like 2 minutes in with a mono-green stompy thing Garruk gave me (why does he keep giving all these new planeswalkers his deck) and then I spent like 5 hours jumping from plane to plane picking up random nicknacks for her mantlepiece while she sits back back doing her nails or something. I was thrown in jail! I got hit by a Roil Storm twice! Do you know how many rats are on Ravnica, Chandra? All of them! All of the rats! All of the rats eating me!

Then we go kick her Ex's bearded-screaming-butt and what does she do to help? Nothing! She throws of the occasional fire ball and spends her time trying not to freeze to death. You should have worn pants Chandra. While we're on the subject what happened to your shoes? You had like Steelies on. Steelies are cool. Now your running around with stupid boots with like 5-inch heels? Thats not appropriate footware for Planeswalking! That's not appropriate footware for normal walking! At least Liliana is doing it for the whole 'evil is sexy' thing and can summon undead to carry her when she breaks her ankle. What are you going to do ride a Phoenix? Its made of fire! You'll fall right through! Man I should have gone Planeswalking with Liliana - yeah she'd crack my head open with a rock 5 minutes in and raise my corpse to serve her but at least we could have gone dancing!

Now with more original content and open bar!

https://www.youtube.com/user/thedevilwuster

Why do I get the feeling I'm missing some sort of joke here?



I can't speak for Devil, but I thought you were subtly and self-deprecatingly implying that your head is generally located in the region of your sphincter, for lulz. :p

Wizards: If it isn't game design, we can't do it right. Frankly, we're kind of shaky on the game design sometimes too.

Looks like the new players will find good tips and good laughs when they find this thread...

WotC doesn't care about flavor. Their forum is the only place where an ORC can kill a troll...

Lost around 120 posts in the forum migration

Post #1000 on Feb 02, 2013

Post #2000 on Sep 04, 2013

The correct answer to "how do I look" or "how does this look?" etc. is always "You always look beautiful to me, honey." Now my wife doesn't even bother asking, which is excellent.
The correct answer to "how do I look" or "how does this look?" etc. is always "You always look beautiful to me, honey." Now my wife doesn't even bother asking, which is excellent.



Which is precisely my point in sharing the anecdote; I know perfectly well what was expected and desired of me in the situation; I am not, as you may think, socially retarded in any great fashion. It's simply that I refuse to violate my own morality and honesty simply to appease someone's feelings. The same sort of thing that compels me to repeatedly out myself as a bastard and a terrible person even though that is probably sometimes a bit harsher than is necessary because even if my methods are unkind, my intentions are at least pure. Conversely, I don't do things to screw people over even when in my estimation they probably deserve it. I might verbally lash out at people, but I don't take advantage of others, if a cashier gives me excess change I explain the error and return it, I don't sell or share peoples' secrets. I simply have no desire to harm people who have done no one I know any ill, and even those I tend to be lenient with.

*Shrugs.* But enough about me. Anyone else with tips for playing control, by all means, feel free to contribute. 

Wizards: If it isn't game design, we can't do it right. Frankly, we're kind of shaky on the game design sometimes too.

I have linked this to the second post in Technical issues.

Cheers!



Curiously, I'm not seeing it, I might add. I am perhaps looking in the wrong place?

Wizards: If it isn't game design, we can't do it right. Frankly, we're kind of shaky on the game design sometimes too.

Dr. mag. GoA and Dr. wom. Devilwustler are the Mob Doctors.

On a serious note: Good advice on both counts. Anwsering a woman's question to truthfully (especially early in a releationship) and/or reacting to one of them moods "to much", is most of the time a pretty bad idea. Tongue Out



I'd like to add (I think you said it, but it's so important in Duels), that more often then not the power and toughness of the creature aren't the only thing that is relevant when thinking about whether to remove or not. Card draw is really relevant this time, so killing one or another card drawer is pretty important (Mentor of the Meek, Aura-Ladies, Graveborn Muse, Dimir Guildmage). I always cringe when people let my Mentor live, but kill Thalia. Three turns later they got 0 cards in hand and I got 5-7 + more lands.

Absurdity, n. A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion.

 

I findnthat this post is likely of great use to newer players, as not everyone seems to adapt to acting logically at all times at equal ease. In short, had I read this 3 years ago it would've been a great read!

perhaps it could be the start of a 'community tips and tricks' hub-thread?
Dr. mag. GoA and Dr. wom. Devilwustler are the Mob Doctors.

On a serious note: Good advice on both counts. Anwsering a woman's question to truthfully (especially early in a releationship) and/or reacting to one of them moods "to much", is most of the time a pretty bad idea.



I'd like to add (I think you said it, but it's so important in Duels), that more often then not the power and toughness of the creature aren't the only thing that is relevant when thinking about whether to remove or not. Card draw is really relevant this time, so killing one or another card drawer is pretty important (Mentor of the Meek, Aura-Ladies, Graveborn Muse, Dimir Guildmage). I always cringe when people let my Mentor live, but kill Thalia. Three turns later they got 0 cards in hand and I got 5-7 + more lands.



Ah, yes. At some point I could probably devote an entire post on what a gigantic advantage card draw is, but for now, let me edit point #1 on knowing what and when to use removal.

Wizards: If it isn't game design, we can't do it right. Frankly, we're kind of shaky on the game design sometimes too.

but that's in part because I myself am so particular about communicating.

Still, as I said, I am often far less gentle than I could be. Even in this post, I start by saying "bad" players where I could just as easily have said "new." 



Now that intrigues me GofA (as someone who finds your posts both interesting and informative).


A new player cant be "bad" as they are just "new" and learning the game...   (bad =lacking in skill new = just lacking in knowledge / experience?)

whereas

To be actually "bad" you have to have played for a fair while so that you "really ought to know better"...


So how does that square with being very "particular about communicating"?   Tongue Out
but that's in part because I myself am so particular about communicating.

Still, as I said, I am often far less gentle than I could be. Even in this post, I start by saying "bad" players where I could just as easily have said "new." 



Now that intrigues me GofA (as someone who finds your posts both interesting and informative).


A new player cant be "bad" as they are just "new" and learning the game...   (bad =lacking in skill new = just lacking in knowledge / experience?)

whereas

To be actually "bad" you have to have played for a fair while so that you "really ought to know better"...


So how does that square with being very "particular about communicating"?   Tongue Out



A new player is perfectly capable of being bad, they simply have an excuse for it. ;)

Good try though, and thanks. :p

Wizards: If it isn't game design, we can't do it right. Frankly, we're kind of shaky on the game design sometimes too.


A new player is perfectly capable of being bad, they simply have an excuse for it. ;)

Good try though, and thanks. :p



Oooh you are at it again.

A new player may play "badly" but they have a reason for it...


if an experienced person plays badly they have no reasons only excuses!
Take the trolling elsewhere, not having it in this thread.

Wizards: If it isn't game design, we can't do it right. Frankly, we're kind of shaky on the game design sometimes too.

If a player plays badly, they play badly. Gamers just attribute titles to differentiate between bad players.

A bad player that lacks experience is a newbie. A bad player that has played a game for a while is a scrub, or unfortunately handicapped.
If a player plays badly, they play badly. Gamers just attribute titles to differentiate between bad players.

A bad player that lacks experience is a newbie. A bad player that has played a game for a while is a scrub, or unfortunately handicapped.



Or named Mike Flores. Not bad at putting words together, but fairly terrible when it comes to backing them up.

Wizards: If it isn't game design, we can't do it right. Frankly, we're kind of shaky on the game design sometimes too.

@God.

Good OP, but a point you should also raise (i know the post says there are more but i think this is very very important) is the ability or having the patience to wait. I see (or saw in 2013 and 2012) a lot of control players playing just because they could. Stalling and waiting for the right moment is key and sometimes you have to play nothing for a few turns.

I don't know about steam or PSN but on xbox live it's something i see all the time. Crosswinds was key, drawing out newer or cocky players to cancel or drop big threats was easy as pie.   
@God.

Good OP, but a point you should also raise (i know the post says there are more but i think this is very very important) is the ability or having the patience to wait. I see (or saw in 2013 and 2012) a lot of control players playing just because they could. Stalling and waiting for the right moment is key and sometimes you have to play nothing for a few turns.

I don't know about steam or PSN but on xbox live it's something i see all the time. Crosswinds was key, drawing out newer or cocky players to cancel or drop big threats was easy as pie.   


Patience is certainly a big key, but at times it can also hurt you.  Sometimes if you wait too long it can also screw you when some 2/2 has come in and done 12 damage because you keep waiting for something bigger and badder.  It is a fine balance, when to wait and when to act.  When to stay on the offensive, when to be defensive.  It varies from deck to deck, build to build, for both what you are playing as well as what your opponent is playing (and how they are playing).  I would have to say though, if you are unsure, being patient is probably the best option.  Always leave yourself an "out" if you can.

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Good post. Thank you for expressing what I could not.
@God.

Good OP, but a point you should also raise (i know the post says there are more but i think this is very very important) is the ability or having the patience to wait. I see (or saw in 2013 and 2012) a lot of control players playing just because they could. Stalling and waiting for the right moment is key and sometimes you have to play nothing for a few turns.

I don't know about steam or PSN but on xbox live it's something i see all the time. Crosswinds was key, drawing out newer or cocky players to cancel or drop big threats was easy as pie.   


Patience is certainly a big key, but at times it can also hurt you.  Sometimes if you wait too long it can also screw you when some 2/2 has come in and done 12 damage because you keep waiting for something bigger and badder.  It is a fine balance, when to wait and when to act.  When to stay on the offensive, when to be defensive.  It varies from deck to deck, build to build, for both what you are playing as well as what your opponent is playing (and how they are playing).  I would have to say though, if you are unsure, being patient is probably the best option.  Always leave yourself an "out" if you can.



Good players will peck away at a control deck just like this and force them to use their answers on subpar spells; then they resolve something big and win. Sorry guys, but the point of the post is that player skill matters, and if you don't believe that it does then you are probably just bad. An orange ring around a card does not require you to play it.....
This has been fairly helpful for me. While I'm familiar with a few of the points you've mentioned, it helps to see it written down in list form. 

As a new player, I don't hate control decks,  I like them. I just wish I was better at piloting them, but with practice (and hopefully by taking your advice) I am getting better at using them.
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