How to beat Elves?

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My kid has a friend with an elf deck, one of those Immaculate Magistrate plus Imperious Perfect plus Drove of Elves plus Lys Alana Huntmaster plus Parallel Lives and Doubling Season things that are so crazy effective once they get going.

I told him one way to consistently beat that deck (and possibly no other deck) would look something like this:


Would that work against elves?

Current EDH Decks: Radha Timmy, Oona exile/mill, Edric aggro, Marath tokens, Uril Voltron, Ertai counters, Sek'Kuar sac engines, Ezuri elf tribal, Oloro life gain, Zedruu tokens, White Mikaeus indestructible, Riku allies, Ghave synergy, Momir Vig Simic to a fault, Zur pillow fort/extort, Cromat artifacts, Rafiq aggro, Nekuzar zombies, Prossh creature beats, Roon ETB/bounce, Garza Zol vampires.

 

 

 

Field Wipes. Black sun Zenith is good. Mutilate too. Sounds pretty casual so he's probably not winning turn 3 or 4 which hsould give you enough time to get the mana for these bombs.

and if youre not doing mono black. a large amount of wipes are good. Blasphemous act and the like.

Anti token wipes, so your stuff lives. Boom, Engineered Explosives.

Lotsa ways. 
elves aren't that tough.  All of this kid's key cards have no pretection from spot removal, save Drove of Elves' hexproof.  All you have to do is run some spot removal and bard wipes like the aforementioned Black Sun's Zenith, Mutilate, Infest, or Damnation.  Beyond that there's good ol' Terminate, Murder, Go for the Throat, Doom Blade and so on, or some wither effects like Tragic Slip, Last Gasp, Nameless Inversion or "edicting" like Geth's Verdict, Gatekeeper of Malakir, Cruel Edict etc.

I wouldn't make a deck based around this though, but a good option that would work against multiple other decks would be a Grave Pact deck.  Run some nice replaceable creatures like Reassembling skeleton, Butcher Ghoul, Geralf's Messenger and Demonlord of Ashmouth.  Maybe Nether Traitor and Bloodghast as well, and some sacrifice outlets like Nantuko Husk, Miren, the Moaning Well, Altar's Reap, Barter in Blood and Spawning Pit.  Maybe to add insult to injury add a small reanimator theme with Liliana Vess, Grimoire of the Dead, or just Rise from the Grave

tribal decks simply can't compete against a deck that doesn't value the lives of its own creatures.
What is your Budget? Do you have any Format or Legality restrictions?

I told him one way to consistently beat that deck (and possibly no other deck) would look something like this

This deck appears to have a huge amount of higher cost cards (and X costs), and be operating under the assumption that Dark Ritual will smooth out a curve which effectively starts at 2 - it won't. 
Dark Ritual is traditionally seen in SuiBlack lists and (rarely) Combo and (rarely) Storm builds - they are Tempo decks which absolutely must get the opposing deck in a position where it is incapable of stablizing (even at the cost of card disadvantage). Those 3 archetypes I mentioned are happy if they can trade short term gains (namely an explosive start) for long term problems (as they would now have less cards than the opponent) because they are capable of finishing the game quickly. :B: Wither or :B: Infect are not decks which would benefit from an explosive start, more than they would be negatively impacted by the associated card disadvantage. 
I would be running 24 Lands, and running things which provided :B: mana (instead of ) - Charcoal Diamond, Phyrexian Totem (which dodges the various sweep effects) or even something like Leaden Myr. Liliana Of The Dark Realms would also work well in your current list.

Why not build something other than a deck designed to beat a specific deck your opponent is running? A :B: Zombie list emphasizing recursion (with things like UnHoly Grotto with GraveCrawler, Dregscape Zombie and GhoulRaiser) would allow you to run plenty of sweeps (Shrivel, Mutilate, etc) and not be too negatively impacted by them.

Alternatively, why not build a faster :G: deck ? I've included a :G: Eldrazi deck I built recently for inspiration purposes.

How to autocard: 

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[*c]CardName[/*c] (remove the *'s) to autocard!

or

[*deck]

4 x CardName

4 x CardName

[/*deck]

Remove the *'s to autodeck!

There are budget restrictions. He's got cash for cards, but he's not going to blow $100 on a deck. Probably not even $50, so if I can work with rares he already has, cheap rares, and commons/uncommons, I'm all for it. The Gatekeeper of Malakir is a good one...chump blocker + the sac for one more mana than Doom Blade. It is also $$ cheap and he may already have one or two.

Current EDH Decks: Radha Timmy, Oona exile/mill, Edric aggro, Marath tokens, Uril Voltron, Ertai counters, Sek'Kuar sac engines, Ezuri elf tribal, Oloro life gain, Zedruu tokens, White Mikaeus indestructible, Riku allies, Ghave synergy, Momir Vig Simic to a fault, Zur pillow fort/extort, Cromat artifacts, Rafiq aggro, Nekuzar zombies, Prossh creature beats, Roon ETB/bounce, Garza Zol vampires.

 

 

 

Engineered Explosives, why are we still talking about this?

Seriously though, Explosives + Spot Removal should be enough to clean up against that Elf deck. If you wanna go mono-black, then maybe something like this:

I would have killed, literally ended someones life, to NOT have Arrogant Bloodlord riding a giant ant... Good times:
Show
but where DID the other fork come from?
Show
Lord_Zed: I was at my friends house when this happened. He's married and his wife was an excellent baker. She had baked a homemade apple pie the night before. I was hungry, and my friend convinced me to try those low carb monster drinks. Before this day, I had never triend energy drinks before. Boy was I in for a treat. When I tried that first monster, I really enjoyed the flavor, but the taste that it left in my mouth wasn't so good. What was my solution? Drink another! before I could finish drinking that 2nd monster, I felt it already kicking in(these drinks were not very far apart, we're talking minutes here) my friend decided that it was a good idea to whip out that fresh pie his wife made the night before. I didn't know what to do, since I felt incredibly invigorated, and at the same time, freaked out by the rush I was feeling, but I was also hungry, and my friend have me an entire plate with a fork and said "help yourself." He extended his saucer to me, and I cut him a piece of the pie and handed it to him, then I looked at the pie, noticed that the pie was in an aluminum holder, and dumped the entire pie onto my plate and started eating it with 2 forks. I don't know where I found that other fork, it probably came from my friend. Anyhow, his wife wasn't happy, and I was already in magical christmas land. 2 days later, I was in my friends bed and I slept for 14 hours. His wife outlawed my from having any of her baked goods for a while(which sucked because I could just show up at there house, steal some sweets, and leave) and said I couldn't have any energy drinks at her house, unless under close watch. My friend, on the other hand, had to take me out to a steak dinner, because apparently I won a bet where I climbed a tree and didn't die.
The great land debate:
Show
97563441 wrote:
Zendikar had fetchlands, and Worldwake had manlands. What are the new Scars duals called?
61325265 wrote:
Explosive Peanut Lightning lands. Well, that's just what I call them.
61325265 wrote:
58232598 wrote:
i'm just trying to figure out what the point of saying this is. it's just really random.
And so the pot met the kettle.

                                                                                                                                                                                        <----- Loser.

Death to All Elves

Land (24)
24x Swamp $0 (assumed owned)

Creatures (16)
4x Gatekeeper of Malakir - $2
4x Hypnotic Specter - $4
4x Eastern Paladin - $2
4x Shriekmaw - $3

Spells (20)
4x Dark Ritual - $3.5
4x Hymn to Tourach - $5
4x Perish - $10
4x Persecute - $4
2x Extinction - $2
2x Black Sun's Zenith - $4

Total: 60 cards, $40

Very little survives a t2 Rit-Persecute (or worse, T1 double rit - hyppie- hymn).  The discard forces the elf player to overextend into mass removal.  Paladin, Shriekmaw, and Gatekeeper clean up any stragglers.

EDIT: Now with price information!

"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice."

 

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THE COALITION WAR GAME -Phyrexian Chief Praetor
Round 1: (4-1-2, 1 kill)
Round 2: (16-8-2, 4 kills)
Round 3: (18-9-2, 1 kill)
Round 4: (22-10-0, 2 kills)
Round 5: (56-16-3, 9 kills)
Round 6: (8-7-1)

Last Edited by Ralph on blank, 1920

Hmmm for a budget of under $50...



I doubt this would work against a fully optimized combo elves deck, but based on the bits of it you posted this sub-$50 deck should beat the daylights out of that guys elves deck no problem. Just make sure he understands how to play it if he hasn't piloted a combo deck before :D 

If Iona is out of budget then Stoic Angel is easier on the wallet, and still really hampers the decks efficiency, or more Blazing Archon!

The only cards here that are over $1 are the Lotus Petal (like $3), Elesh Norn ($10 online), Iona ($18), and Blazing Archon ($2). The other cards are all around the $1 mark, and (assuming you probably have at least some of the cards), it will for sure be under $50 

Godhead of Awe + Night of Souls' Betrayal.  then sit back and laugh, and also attack with your 3/3 flying guy :p

otherwise, the Nightmare deck looks fun.  I'd run Lashwrithe and some cheap creatures with flying like Putrid Imp and Vampire Nighthawk over actual Nightmares though. 
Massacre Wurm?

Can we build a deck around Spreading Plague?

I am aware of the Transguild Courier trick, but are there other ways to get around it?  Artifact creatures! Manlands? Homicidal Seclusion and/or some odd Exalted build (if all artifact creatures, just add Cathedral of Wars)?

Cheers!

A shout out to Gaming Grounds in Kent, Ohio and Gamers N Geeks in Mobile, Alabama. www.zombiehunters.org for all your preparation needs. http://shtfschool.com/ - why prepping is useful, from one who has been there.
the best way to get around spreading plague, speaking from experience, is with manlands. Mishra's Workshop is pretty cheap nowadays, and Stalking Stones or Dread Statuary are very good budget manlands.
I would have killed, literally ended someones life, to NOT have Arrogant Bloodlord riding a giant ant... Good times:
Show
but where DID the other fork come from?
Show
Lord_Zed: I was at my friends house when this happened. He's married and his wife was an excellent baker. She had baked a homemade apple pie the night before. I was hungry, and my friend convinced me to try those low carb monster drinks. Before this day, I had never triend energy drinks before. Boy was I in for a treat. When I tried that first monster, I really enjoyed the flavor, but the taste that it left in my mouth wasn't so good. What was my solution? Drink another! before I could finish drinking that 2nd monster, I felt it already kicking in(these drinks were not very far apart, we're talking minutes here) my friend decided that it was a good idea to whip out that fresh pie his wife made the night before. I didn't know what to do, since I felt incredibly invigorated, and at the same time, freaked out by the rush I was feeling, but I was also hungry, and my friend have me an entire plate with a fork and said "help yourself." He extended his saucer to me, and I cut him a piece of the pie and handed it to him, then I looked at the pie, noticed that the pie was in an aluminum holder, and dumped the entire pie onto my plate and started eating it with 2 forks. I don't know where I found that other fork, it probably came from my friend. Anyhow, his wife wasn't happy, and I was already in magical christmas land. 2 days later, I was in my friends bed and I slept for 14 hours. His wife outlawed my from having any of her baked goods for a while(which sucked because I could just show up at there house, steal some sweets, and leave) and said I couldn't have any energy drinks at her house, unless under close watch. My friend, on the other hand, had to take me out to a steak dinner, because apparently I won a bet where I climbed a tree and didn't die.
The great land debate:
Show
97563441 wrote:
Zendikar had fetchlands, and Worldwake had manlands. What are the new Scars duals called?
61325265 wrote:
Explosive Peanut Lightning lands. Well, that's just what I call them.
61325265 wrote:
58232598 wrote:
i'm just trying to figure out what the point of saying this is. it's just really random.
And so the pot met the kettle.
Did you mean Mishra's Factory?
Did you mean Mishra's Factory?


yep. duh.
I would have killed, literally ended someones life, to NOT have Arrogant Bloodlord riding a giant ant... Good times:
Show
but where DID the other fork come from?
Show
Lord_Zed: I was at my friends house when this happened. He's married and his wife was an excellent baker. She had baked a homemade apple pie the night before. I was hungry, and my friend convinced me to try those low carb monster drinks. Before this day, I had never triend energy drinks before. Boy was I in for a treat. When I tried that first monster, I really enjoyed the flavor, but the taste that it left in my mouth wasn't so good. What was my solution? Drink another! before I could finish drinking that 2nd monster, I felt it already kicking in(these drinks were not very far apart, we're talking minutes here) my friend decided that it was a good idea to whip out that fresh pie his wife made the night before. I didn't know what to do, since I felt incredibly invigorated, and at the same time, freaked out by the rush I was feeling, but I was also hungry, and my friend have me an entire plate with a fork and said "help yourself." He extended his saucer to me, and I cut him a piece of the pie and handed it to him, then I looked at the pie, noticed that the pie was in an aluminum holder, and dumped the entire pie onto my plate and started eating it with 2 forks. I don't know where I found that other fork, it probably came from my friend. Anyhow, his wife wasn't happy, and I was already in magical christmas land. 2 days later, I was in my friends bed and I slept for 14 hours. His wife outlawed my from having any of her baked goods for a while(which sucked because I could just show up at there house, steal some sweets, and leave) and said I couldn't have any energy drinks at her house, unless under close watch. My friend, on the other hand, had to take me out to a steak dinner, because apparently I won a bet where I climbed a tree and didn't die.
The great land debate:
Show
97563441 wrote:
Zendikar had fetchlands, and Worldwake had manlands. What are the new Scars duals called?
61325265 wrote:
Explosive Peanut Lightning lands. Well, that's just what I call them.
61325265 wrote:
58232598 wrote:
i'm just trying to figure out what the point of saying this is. it's just really random.
And so the pot met the kettle.
Can we build a deck around Spreading Plague?

I am aware of the Transguild Courier trick, but are there other ways to get around it?  Artifact creatures! Manlands?


My friend has such a deck. It also uses Scuttlemutt, Blind Seer and Sarpadian Empires, Vol. VII.
Forums won't let me autocard, sorry. Anywho, board sweeps, or you could so all in agressive and do U/G infect. If you'rfe unaware U/G infect works like this:
8 Forest
8 Island
4 Multiland (the best you can do)
4 Glistener Elf
4 Ichorclaw Myr
4 Blighted Agent
28 Giant Growth type spells and evasion like Artful Dodge

You can cook to taste, so long as it consistantly wins by turn 3 you're doing it right. Assuming you don't care if this guy stays your friend.

Also Invigorate
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