New char build

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Ok I need a new char for our game we are playing and I have so many ideas running thrower my head I do knot know what one to pick. I will break everything down for everyone and give you all the ideas I have and see what you canhelp out with. 

First off the level for me is lv 16 
The part has the following
 Drow rogue 
Elven ranger/scout/order of the bow
Elven druid/ something or other
human barbarian/bear warrior
and sometimes a Elven bard/ sublime chourd

Now I have done the cleriTo and the fighter tank and got killed. So this is where I stand now the ideas that are running in my head some I know people say suck and they probably do but the point is they are still stuck in my head.

Then books you should know about is this the complete series minus champions
PHB 1-2
races of stone
miniturs
psionics
and some that just purely suck and are not worth shutting here.

So the ideas I have had to this point
1 Goliath barbarian/ stoneblessed dwarf/ deepwarden
2 dwarf fighter/cleric
3 Goliath grappler
4 Goliath thrower
5 whisper gnome silent strike grappler
6 whisper gnome thrower
7 anything else that I could come up with

arcane casting is ok but I'm not the biggest fan of it and would really not want to go back to divine stuff. The crucian build I put up in the other post is something a friend gave to me but not that big into it.

So any input and ideas are appreciated because right now my mind is racing and dose not want to make a pick.

PS I will be working this off of a 40 point system as all the other have stats that are much higher then the stuff I will be putting out just to give you a idea the druid barbarian and rogue areall Demi gods and the ranger has a dex of 38 or something like that. 
A) What do you want your character to do?
B) What are the books you don't want to list? There are usually SOME nuggets of goodness in every book - even Complete Psionic. As a matter of fact, why don't you just list the allowed books in an sblock in your sig? You can even put any 3rd party books in a different, sub-sblock.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Ok I will but some of them make no sense at all just letting you know now.

PHB, PHB 2, DMG, the complete series (minus champions), in scoundrels ( no gray guard), races of stone, expanded psionics, quitsentual chaos mage, wheel of time champaign setting, forgotten reals champaign setting, races of faerun, miniture hand book, arcana evolved, there maybe one or two I have missed but I think that is them all.
What is it Kingofswing that you wish to build a character to do? You've listed several options, and it would appear you're the fifth man, as well as by all appearances the game has a reasonably high mortality rate. Consider with whatever you want made that survivability either from buffs or naturally high defenses/hp should be a factor.
I was looking that way with the high suvivability but with only the 1 melee char as the druid is more of a chicken and hides in the ground and casts spells. I was thinking another melee problem with that not very survivable. Barb would be best for HD but then if I remember dwarf fighter has ACF that gives d12 to HD. Thinking going to have to go kensa for about 5 levels to get steadfast ability, but really do not like playing lawful char much.
Ok so I think I have an idea but it is none of the ones I listed. How dose this look for now ?

Whisper Gnome: Swashbuckler 3/ rogue 2/ stoneblessed (dwarf) 3/ streetfighter 5/ x 3
Feats

Lv 1 dodge ( I know it sucks butit us needed)
Bonus: weapon finesse from swashbuckler
Lv 3 Titan fighting
Lv6 darling outlaw
Lv 9
Lv12
Lv15

Not sure on these was looking at trying some of the ambush feats in this build.
Ok I will clear tis up for you I hope.

I asked you to show me a build using the books in the above posts. I said you would be unable to do so because TOB is not an allowed book. Now I need something that is melee based, since there is only one melee char in the party he needs help. I however need to be able to survive magical attacks, as well as stand on the fight and do damage. If I did range it would be easy to do both, stay alive and do damage but the melee char needs the help.
Codzilla, done!
At that rate I might as well go Diplomancer and have everyone do my bidding. Hey that is not a bd idea excep that the DM will hate me to death then I will be making another char.
Every time you've asked for a new character, it's been in response to your DM being spiteful and killing you. Now you fear that a new character will make your DM be spiteful and kill you.

This is not a problem that can be solved with character optimization. This is a problem that needs to be solved away from the game, person-to-person.

And, as a last resort, you can always find another DM who isn't as triggerhappy as this one. 

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

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These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

For something really simple and probably fun to brew up consider the following.

Changeling
Hexblade            4
Warshaper         2
Dragon Disciple 10
X???

You'll get a ton of immunities and really high hp, great saves and even some AC bonus's.

Consider feats like Steadfast Determination for further toughness and feats like Power Attack, Leap Attack and Shock Trooper to lay down some damage.

Random build idea that aught to be tough as nails and fit your criterium. 
I've removed content from this thread. Trolling/baiting is a violation of the Code of Conduct

You can review the Code of Conduct here: company.wizards.com/conduct

Please remember to keep your posts polite, on topic and refrain from personal attacks. You are free to disagree with one another as long as it is done in a respectful manner. 
That is a great build indeed and looks like it could be fun. I problem temp kinda hit the nail on the head. The DM however trigger happy is a friend he just likes to have things go his way and when they do not he will fluff the hell out of things or change rules for things he likes, eg double damage on a failed save. That is why I'm looking for something that I can help out our melee char with but not be to over powering but not a marshmallow. Now the buld you gave has a very small wrinkle in it. The fact that the char is a changeling I personally love the eberron setting but the DM hates it even wet as fare to say if you play a warforged wizard cleric anything that cast spell, your life force get diminished by what ever the level of spell was. So you cast a level 9 spell you lose 9 HP and so on and so on. Then he just flat out said nothing from eberron period. He is a bit of an ass like that. So this is what I have to put up with as there are no DMs around. So I would look for another DM but there really is none around. However I think we need to have a rules talk with the group because some of the stuff he has come up with is just stupid as hell and having books in the mix that no-one has used or ever will use is just insane. Then the ultimate insanity is going to be his next campain that will be an Everquest campain, which no-one has any idea how to play and he wants to play it just because he likes the attack format. It is along the lines of 2.0, where if you have a light weapon you have a better chance at hitting, he says it is more realelistic. My response is that this is a fantasy world with magic dragons and what not.
Monster Manual 3, it's setting neutral, done and done.
I might be able to work that angle but not sure he may still be an ass about it but I can try I guess
I'd also suggest looking online for new groups. Roll20, OpenRPG, MapTool, and so on all allow gaming online. Hell, I've only met one of my entire gaming group in person, and that was just for a couple of hours during an airport layover.

...Although, a prerequisite for playing online is good online communication skills. So you might want to use a laptop without autocorrect rather than an iPad with autocorrect. (Some, like Roll20, work on hangout tech, so that's less important, but still.)

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

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These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

You want unkillable?  And psionics is allowed?

Take a psionic class.  Take the Metamorphosis power, either as an egoist, an ardent, or via Expanded Knowledge.  Take the Metamorphic Transfer feat.

At 12 HD (or earlier with Overchannel), metamorph into a hoary steed.  Use your supernatural CL 20 astral projection to create an astral double of yourself.  Protect your real body and find a way to have a contingency prepared if anyone attacks it or your silver cord.

You need to be melee too?  No problem.  A single-classed psychic warrior can pull this off for the cost of two feats, Expanded Knowledge (Metamorphosis) and Metamorphic Transfer.  EK (Metamorphosis) is a good choice for a psychic warrior anyhow.

This way, the DM can arbitrarily kill you all he wants, but he'll only be killing your astral double.  Everybody wins!
Joker there is a bard already in he party the human one would not work because races of destiny is not allowed and the book with incantatrix is not allowed either. The paladin one is not bad played something along that line but was not the biggest fan of it.

The psionic creation I think might be in the right direction. Maybe an élan ardent with the racial feats for the élan. That might work.

I saw a decent thread with a list of cheap immunity items and the like but I don't have a link to it. I wouldn't mind it myself if someone had something like that.

But I think that misses the point. If the DM wants to kill you, he can kill you, whatever you do. Maybe you should keep a list of these rules changes he makes. "Double damage on a crit? OK Mr DM, just let me keep a note of that for next time I crit (did I tell you I'm going crit-fishing dual-ribbonblade-scimitar-wielder next?)."
Or better yet, just be straight with him. If he's a friend, I get you don't want to tick him off... but conversely, he should be willing not to spoil your fun.
Well I like your idea about the cri-fishing I thought about that, I was rally looking at the dervish for a long time, but with the two-weapon tree and the dervish dance and the thousand cuts, it would take me 10 min just to roll all the attacks never mind the damages.

Then the party would be mad at me and not him.
Check out the A-Game Paladin in Tempests Sig, it might need some reworking but probably passes your DM's purity test.
Book list look up there joker it is in the posts. And is not human paragon in races of destiny? I think it is along with half orc and half elf and a few other races. Just so you are ok with it and that just in case you have not scrolled up it is the third post the bottom of that post is a list if books. These are the books allowed.
The Paragon races (all PHB, plus Half-Dragon) are in Unearthed Arcana. Most of the stuff from UA is available in the SRD, but Paragons & bloodlines are not.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Ok wrong book then no problem. There is something like paragon in arcana evolved that coul do the same thing if worked the right way.
Well... !

I'd looked for both of those in the last month or so, and was unable to find them.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Your google fu needs work draco heh. I don't find the links to get to them are easy to follow but searching yields good results.
So, in other words, this thread is the same as the last five? Baiting, vagueness and incomplete information, and then whining when what you get isn't precisely what you want? Okay. :rolleyes

Popping on to tell someone you could help them but won't is hardly constructive. You may as well not bother posting, as you're only rising to it if it's baiting or baiting yourself. That said, I do tend to agree with this statement. Kingofswing, I think that what you need to start doing if you actually want help is being very clear about what you're after and what you're allowed to do.

For example: I am playing in a L16 game with these books: ABC. I would like to make a grappler. I know it probably sucks at this level, but I'd like to give it a shot. Can you please help me make this suck less? This is what I have so far: XYZ. Also there is this significant house-rule you should know about, it's blah blah blah.
And most importantly, what you actually want to do!

At the moment it's reading more like this
"Anyway to make grappling not suck?"
"What are you trying to do? What level?"
"I thought about a Goliath who grapples people then throws them then shoots them."
"That's not going to work, try XYZ instead."
"Well XYZ isn't allowed."
"Well what is?"
"ABC"
"OK try this then."
"No because everyone has Freedom of Movement etc"
"Well that's a L3 build, people don't have FoM at L3"
"Yeah well it's L16"
etc

Which is a lot of discussion just to find out what level you're playing at and so on. This thread was a lot better, but then you reveal all these house rules and stuff.


Again, it seems your problem is more the DM, not your build. 
OK Joker just because Im a nice guy here we go.
PHB, PHB 2
DMG
the complete series (minus champions),
in scoundrels ( no gray guard),
races of stone,
expanded psionics,
quitsentual chaos mage,
wheel of time champaign setting,
forgotten reals champaign setting,
races of faerun,
miniture hand book,
arcana evolved,
there maybe one or two I have missed but I think that is them all
Fred I think that is fair enough and I will in the future try to accomplish this for everyone. The list of books is in the post just before this one. The list of char are as follows which I think everyone know now but just in case.

Drow Rogue
Elf Bard
Elf Ranger/scout/order of the bow
Elf Druid
Elf or Human Barbarian/bear warrior
X the x is my char

Now when I look at this line up I see only the one melee char the druid is focused on spells more the wild shape, the bard is hardly there, the ranger hits everything on a 2 or less because of his BEnergy bow the, drow well he like to hide and not do much more then that. So with all of that said I figured a melee help is needed and that is the way I will look toward going.

Stuff you need to know: I will be doing a point system everyone else rolled their stats, there are 3 demi gods in the part yes you are reading that right. The DM has a crazy rule if you fail a save you take double damage. However he is open to races just not anything that is in Ebberon.

The point system I will be using is 40 points I know this seems high but with 3 demi gods in the party this realy is not that high. ( they became demi gods from drinking a potion of ambrosia ( i think that is the spelling)

so with that I found the humans in the book arcana evolved have an evolved form. With each level of human evolved for you take you get the following.
+1 to (any) stat and a +1 feat (any) if you have spells you get + 1 level of spell caster or 1 extra combat ritual.
In this book they also have combat rituals. They also have some cool classes that I might be looking into but any ideas are great.
O just so you know the evolved humans are ontop of the normal level 1 human stuff they get.

So a Human fighter 3/evolved human 3
would have: LV1 Human Bonus feat
LV1 Fighter Bonus feat
LV1 Feat
LV2 Fighter bonus feat
LV3 Feat
LV4 Evolved Human feat
LV5 Evolved Human feat
LV6 Evolved Human feat
LV6 feat
with a total of +4 to any stat I wish. That is 9 feats in 6 levels that is a bit nuts but hey he picked the books
Dude look just because you do not want to help someone because you see yourself as a god walking among mere mortals dose not give you the right to insult them. If you can not figure something out then maybe just maybe it is you who has the issue, not the rest of us. Now I agree that yes I type fast some times and I maybe as clear a Mississippi mud most of the time, but I take what you all say in stride. So you always ask he question what do I want to do in the game, well assist the other melee char and stay alive. I thought that was clear but I guess I was wrong. However I have clear that up I hope.
Well, I'm not from the US (though I adopt American spelling standards on this board), and I have to agree with CJ on pretty much everything he's said to you. The issue isn't so much your language as your ability to communicate with that language - i.e. use proper grammar, punctuation, and spellchecking. You've admitted to typing on an iPad before, and it looks like your posts are made using an iPad with Autocorrect and without much use of the "other punctuation" key in the lower-left, even when it would be warranted. It's that lack of communication that's making us frustrated.

...That and the repeated pattern you've used on this board, where you create a new thread (sometimes more than one) with incomplete information and poor communication, then get argumentative over the next three or four exchanges as we ask for more information or clarification of what your poor communication was trying to say, and ultimately just get pissy at us for not reading your mind and giving you exactly what you want as if you were entitled to it and we were nothing more than character-building servants.

We've given you lots of advice so far and you haven't shown any sign of having read any of it. What you get out of this board depends on how much work you're willing to put in.
-Some people do a lot of reading (both of the books and of the handbook-style posts on assorted forums), put together sample characters, provide ability score generation methods / allowed books / starting level / other party member breakdowns, and ask for specific help rounding out a few things.
-Some people just ask if there's a good way to accomplish X. They often don't tell us why they're looking for X, but sometimes these are interesting.
-Some people don't put in any effort at all and treat us like dancing monkeys that happen to scribble out character sheets.
-And then there's you, who doesn't even take the time to properly proofread his own posts, which means not only do we have to do a lot more work for your requests (which are often Sisyphean, in that you keep moving the goalposts), but we also have to fight an uphill struggle against your very typing to understand what your requests actually are.

You also couple this with an inability to read our replies. Joker suggested bard, but made no mention of Races of Destiny - and you shot it down by saying Races of Destiny wasn't allowed. Just because someone says "bard" doesn't mean that we're using the Half-Elf Bard Substitution Level in there - and here, that most certainly wasn't the case! 

So not only are you making it difficult for us to engage with what you're writing, your unwillingness to read what we say means that no headway can be made with any conversation unless something changes on your part. And you've shown nothing across all of your assorted threads except stubbornness.

I hope that explains why we're frustrated.

Now, instead of blindly retorting like a territorrial teenager, would you kindly respond to the assorted suggestions we have already given in this thread?

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

I didy not shoot down the bard idea Joker put up I thought it was a good idea what I was shooting down was the human paragon, which I thought was in races of destiny. I was wrong and you corrected me on that. Thank you and sorry. Plus there is a bard in the party already and I now th incantrix is in a book that is now allowed. Not jokers fault for the build he gave up like I said it was a good one,but he said I did not list the books and I know I did. So thanks for the idea but it just will not work. So I have decided to use some of the stuff from the Arcana Evolved book buti have a feeling it may get shot down because of 1 class ability. In the book there is a class called champion, with that you may become a champion of a any race you wish. At level 10 you get the ability to take all the attribute bonuses and none of the negatives. Is this taking it to fare? Or am I justified in this? If so then what race to pick to be a champion of?
On IPad have no computer right now it is fried.
I've removed content from this thread. Trolling/baiting is a violation of the Code of Conduct

You can review the Code of Conduct here: company.wizards.com/conduct

Please remember to keep your posts polite, on topic and refrain from personal attacks. You are free to disagree with one another as long as it is done in a respectful manner. 
Try low balling your DM.


any +CHA race
Commoner 20
weapon: Club
2 cross class ranks in UMD
Beg your partymates for gear help
only pick Core feats available at level 1, for each level

Buy mules, lots of them.  Stampede everything.
DM says no to mules.

Buy cows, lots of them.  Stampede everything.
DM starts to say no,  You say:  But they are Cows not PCs.
DM says no anyway.

Buy miniature Ponies, lots of them. 
Name each one of them ... with a name from My Little Pony.
Stampede everything.
DM starts to say no. 
You say:  But they are My Little Ponies and My Little Ponies can't beat Hobgoblins.

DM says no anyway.
You say:  I donate my time, money and energy to whatever Deity of Cleric X you the DM allows.

DM says no anyway.
You say:  I'd like to play a 4th Edition Minion please.

Here comes your 19th forums breakdown ... ohh who's to blame, it ain't 5E driving you insane.

 

That is funny as hell thanks for te laugh
Alternately, try to recreate The Borg Cube from Test of Spite.  It abused WBL and Stronghold Builders Guide, and made a mobile cube that he sat inside of.  The full build was never released except to the Test of Spite DMs, but its creator has said that he was a single-classed commonor with one feat (presumably Landlord?) and Toughness for everything else, IIRC.  A lot of guessing has been made about the exact construction of the cube, but it was considered legal by Test of Spite's fairly hardass standards, and it definitely consisted of three feet of dirt, a foot of wood, a layer of lead, and a spell clock, with prismatic walls on each side.  It floated and could be navigated, and the pilot was able to see out of it (most speculate some sort of clairvoyance effect).  It mostly defeated its enemies by ramming them with prismatic walls.

It was never defeated in Test of Spite, but one build did manage to pull a draw by being able to evade it in the arena indefinitely.   If you're interested in seeing more, here is a link to a hilariously overmatched VoP monk trying to take it on.
Alternately, try to recreate The Borg Cube from Test of Spite.


I'll have to look at the Test of Spite guidelines (first I've heard of it), but that's something that's definitely worth sharing with the world. Especially since it's been almost four years since that last post. 

There's a few scry-and-die style tricks that I'd like to see if it managed to block.

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

Alternately, try to recreate The Borg Cube from Test of Spite.


I'll have to look at the Test of Spite guidelines (first I've heard of it), but that's something that's definitely worth sharing with the world. Especially since it's been almost four years since that last post. 

There's a few scry-and-die style tricks that I'd like to see if it managed to block.



Test of Spites was interesting, because it attempted to create a rolling list of house rules and bans in an environment that encouraged pushing the envelope.  Here's a link to one of their main pages (there were at least three Tests of Spite), which should have a list of their rules.  I don't necessarily agree with all of them, but their ban list is at least worth a read for the way it works to "balance" the game.  (For example, hard limits on numbers of actions, etc.)  It was done with an "everything not forbidden is compulsory" mindset, and each later iteration would include new bans and fixes based on the previous games.

Unfortunately, a lot of the old games are lost, because the majority of them occured via IRC rather than on the forums.

As far as sofawall not revealing the Cube.... yeah, I agree, and I think it's stupid that it's still a secret.  I can understand not revealing it during ToS, since I'm sure that anything revealed could be built against fairly easily.  But after?  Anyhow, sofawall was banned, and I don't know of him popping up on any other message boards, so all that can really be done is recreate it after the fact.



  • We know that the original build involved Stronghold Builder's Guide, because SBG was moved to the ban list after a few rounds of the Cube dominating.  Presumably it involved Landlord (the Cube's "one essential feat").

  • It definitely involved spell clocks set to automatically refresh spells.

  • It could burrow, teleport and plane shift (although the burrowing might have just been regular movement while disintegrating the ground it went through).

  • It could see the field of play despite being a commoner cramped inside a 10x10 cube that spent a lot of its time underground.

  • It definitely had all three of the usualy magic/detection blockers, at least one layer of each (lead/wood/dirt).

  • It definitely used prismatic walls.

  • I believe it had dispelling screens as well?

  • There were a couple of matches where it used some low level summoned critters to draw readied attacks. 


I wasn't really active during most of ToS' run, so there's probably a fair bit more known about the build that is missing.

EDIT: Hang on, found a post where he explains some of it:

The Cube? That was me.


Prismatic Wall

Wall of Force
Magically Hardened Obdurium
Lead
Dirt
Me


It can move. As it still a build in progress, I will say little, other than the bare-bones version is available at level 9 and effectively free at level 12ish (AFB).

The current build is immune to almost any targeted spell (even without the walls), and any non-targeted spell near it is eaten by it. It is also much more expensive, although still within a level 13 budget, for ToS (the arena that it was created for) The biggest weakness, MDJ, has been defeated. 

No, I will not tell how.

Amusing anecdote time! I originally made it because I was asked to make a build for the arena, but I didn't want something all complicated and junk. So I just decided to ignore class, race and skills, and only one feat was taken. Everything else was chosen by dice. It eventually was changed to commoner, just to say I won with a commoner. Signmaker is the only competitor to (sort-of) defeat it in the ToS, mainly because she just ran away until I died of old age (we ruled it a tie). I am now immune to that. Also, I have not faced PhoenixRiver's Fluffy build, the other Tier 0.5 (by the ToS tier system).

EDIT: I forgot! Doc Roc also helped me with many things, one of those being immunity to MDJ. Also, one-way LoE/LoS.

EDIT2: Most efficient way to kill things is simply ramming them with Prismatic Walls. As the SBG has nothing to say about what DC the Wall is, I always assumed minimum. Side note, the SBG is a really poorly edited book. Making a tornado is cheaper than making a windstorm. Actually, assuming my memory is correct, you cannot make a windstorm, as the item to do that says tornado instead.

 

and...

Well, it was made in the ToS chatroom (link in Doc Roc's sig). If you google Soft Gooey Center on this site, it should lead you to The Box, which was the early attempts to figure out what I was vulnerable to. I then proceeded to use that data to eliminate some things I hadn't thought of, and some I did. It also confirmed my suspicions that MDJ was a really effective tool against it.



Quote:








Originally Posted by PlzBreakMyCmpAn View Post

T_G isn't famous. Very few understand half his stuff to remember it

I know the feeling.



I actually know both of you, and though I don't know much of your work (only the early-entry handbook and your superdragonmount), I have seen you on 339. T_G, on the other, hand, I remember because I've gamed with him a few times.

Also, a quick google of my name shows some rather embarrassing posts from around the internet. Man, I was a noob back then.

EDIT: The build uses 1 feat and a large amount of gold. A commoner can do it roughly as effectively as a wizard. It effectively proves how powerful WBL is compared to other class features. As if VoP didn't have enough against it...


EDIT: For the record, at least one other person can verify that the Advanced Cube is RAW legal, and quite a few posters (Aethernox, Thelas, Signmaker, Doc Roc) can verify the simpler Box is legal. The MDJ immunity is based around absurd amounts of Dispelling screens basically. 1-way LoE through the Cube helps too, of course.

 

...and, following up on his advice, googling the Soft Gooey Center on site:giantitp.com gave me this link, where he posts some of his initial ideas for it and has people try to get past it, so that he can figure out what to strengthen.
Well I know for sure if I pulled something like that the DM would have kittens and then bane me from living. I was going to play a pixie swashbuckler/sorcerer but he said the pixie was to strong for a LA of 4 or what ever it is. So now I'm looking at something right out in left field and I know I will hear about it but hear goes.

Human: paladin 3/ tattoo monk 10/ x
Feats level 1 improved unarmed strike
level 1 improved grapple
level 3 endurance
level 6 ascetic smiter
level 9
level 12

Now the x can be 1 of 3 things they can be levels on a class, they can be templates, or they can be the level advancements for humans from evolved arcana.
I know the advice is going to be do not do it.
Tattoos will be as follows. 1 crane, 3 oceans, 5 crab, 7 pheonix and 9 x
This will give me medium BAB
Give me 13 levels of unarmed damage,AC and smiting.
Then I tack on gauntlets of talon, and a monks belt for 10 more levels of unarmed damage. AC plus all my attacks are ghost touch against incorporials and I still have 242k to spend
Well I know for sure if I pulled something like that the DM would have kittens and then bane me from living. I was going to play a pixie swashbuckler/sorcerer but he said the pixie was to strong for a LA of 4 or what ever it is. So now I'm looking at something right out in left field and I know I will hear about it but hear goes. Human: paladin 3/ tattoo monk 10/ x


Your problem is that your DM is also spiteful and prone to killing you off, and you seem to think this out-of-game problem can be solved with an in-game arms race. It can't.

That said, you really, really should stop looking for melee (and particularly at grappling!). All of your options so far have been variants on "have a lot of hit points and add ability scores to everything while you hit people with sticks", and that strategy flat-out fails once the magic comes out. You'll actually be much more survivable if you start looking at how spells interact with each other. 
Feats level 1 improved unarmed strike level 1 improved grapple level 3 endurance level 6 ascetic smiter level 9 level 12 Now the x can be 1 of 3 things they can be levels on a class, they can be templates, or they can be the level advancements for humans from evolved arcana. I know the advice is going to be do not do it. Tattoos will be as follows. 1 crane, 3 oceans, 5 crab, 7 pheonix and 9 x This will give me medium BAB Give me 13 levels of unarmed damage,AC and smiting. Then I tack on gauntlets of talon, and a monks belt for 10 more levels of unarmed damage. AC plus all my attacks are ghost touch against incorporials and I still have 242k to spend


Here's why we'll say don't do this.

1) Medium base attack = you will miss a lot in melee.
2) Medium base attack + unarmed strikes = you are not going to benefit from Power Attack, which outdamages monk damage at every level.
3) Grappling. As we've said many times, this will fail as your levels increase. If you've got that much gold to spend you're definitely at the levels where grappling is useless.
4) Ancient class design. Basically, I'd put down Complete Warrior entirely and look at more modern classes; many of the CWar classes are archaic (some are direct reprints of classes that appeared in Sword and Fist back in 2000, before the designers really knew how to expand 3.5), and at least one of WotC's main writers admitted as such (google Mike Mearls hexblade; he admits that early 3.5 was overly conservative in its design). You can outdo almost any CWar-heavy build using nothing more than a single-class martial adept, and it's not hard to outdo a single-class martial adept!

More on point 2. The biggest damage dice monks get without size increases (which others can benefit from too!) is 2d10, and they get +Strength instead of +1.5xStrength on this. 2d10 averages 11 damage. A greatsword (2d6) averages 7; if your Strength is above 16, the greatsword will outdo the monk damage on Strength alone. Furthermore, a full base attack class can take -5 on Power Attack and still have the same chance to hit as a monk, but will deal +10 damage on each hit.

Basic example. AC 30 target, two warrior-types against it, each with Strength modifiers of +10 (realistically it could be higher, but this is for sake of rounding). One's a monk (base attack +15, total melee attack bonus of +30/+30/+30/+25/+20 under Greater Flurry using Greater Magic Fang; damage 2d10+15 per hit); the other's a fighter (base attack +20, total melee attack bonus of +35/+30/+25/+20 with Greater Magic Weapon, damage 2d6+20 per hit).  Ignoring critical hits for the moment (which favor the fighter, by the way, due to the extended critical threat range), the monk's expected damage (chance to hit * average damage summed for each attack) is 115.7; the Fighter can Power Attack for -5 and get 118.4. 

And that's WITHOUT anything more than a basic enhancement bonus on the weapon, and with just mindlessly picking -5 as the Power Attack value (instead of figuring out what the ideal one would be).

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.