Targeting question with hexproof/shroud

9 posts / 0 new
Last post
My opponent casts Shock, targeting my Llanowar Elves

I cast Ranger's Guile, targeting my Elf

Does my Elf die?

Shock was able to target my Elf when it was cast because it didn't have hexproof, but does the Shock spell check its target on resolution? If so, as the Shock spell resolves, does it find Llanowar Elves as an illegal target, now that it has hexproof?

Thanks.
Yes, targets are checked on resolution. Shock will be countered for having an illegal target.
Legality of targets is checked twice: first when the target is chosen and then again when the spell or ability tries to resolve. If the target isnt legal the first time then it cant be chosen in the first place, but if it was legal to start with and then becomes illegal before the spell/ability tries to resolve then instead it is countered (assuming all targets are illegal).

In short: your Elf lives.

~ Tim   
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
Thank you both for replying. It is clear to me now (:
Sorry for necroing this thread (i think). Back to this situation though, does that mean that the shock was burnt on llanowar elves? Or is the target able to be switched after checking the legality a second time since it wasn't legal the second time around
Sorry for necroing this thread (i think). Back to this situation though, does that mean that the shock was burnt on llanowar elves?

yes, it is countered and put in the graveyard
Or is the target able to be switched after checking the legality a second time since it wasn't legal the second time around

no, the only time targets can be changed is if an effect changes them (eg. Redirect) or if they weren't legally declared in the first place (eg. dropping an Oblivion Ring and announcing its trigger's target without giving your opponent an opportunity to respond)

DCI Certified Judge & Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJ
DJ Vortex

DCI Certified Judge since July 13, 2013  - If you have any concerns with my conduct as a judge, feel free to submit feedback here.
DCI #5209514320


My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out

What do you mean by legally declared? Like whatabout a card like Twiddle? Do you choose the target as your playing the spell? And what makes it different from oblivion ring and choosing the target as it's coming into play also?
What do you mean by legally declared?


Either you declare a target and then realise that it was not a legal choice (casting Doom Blade on a black creature, for example), in which case the game is rewound and carries on as if it never happened, or if you declare a target prematurely (just like the Oblivion Ring example above), and your opponent decides to rewind the game to respond.

Like whatabout a card like Twiddle? Do you choose the target as your playing the spell? And what makes it different from oblivion ring and choosing the target as it's coming into play also?


Yes you choose the target for Twiddle as you cast it.

Oblivion Ring is not an Aura, so it doesnt target as you cast it. Instead it targets when you put it's triggered ability on the stack (which happens after it enters the battlefield, which itself happens when it resolves, which happens after you have cast it and no-one counters it etc). If you cast an O-ring and immediately declare a target, then you are proposing a shortcut. Your opponent can either do nothing, let the O-ring resolve and let the permanent you chose be the target, or they can interrupt the shortcut by responding at any point in the process. 

Lets say I control a creature, and you control a creature, and you cast O-ring, saying you are targeting my creature. I could respond by giving my creature Shroud or Hexproof. I can either do this in response to the trigger (in which case the triggered ability "fizzles" and nothing is exiled) or I could do it in response to the spell, in which case your choice of target never really happened, and when O-ring resolves you will have to target your own creature.

~ Tim     
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
What do you mean by legally declared?

that the target was declared legally at the appropriate point
Like whatabout a card like Twiddle?

well, presumably you will choose a legal target when you cast it so it wouldn't apply here unless you tried to target a creature with protection from blue
Do you choose the target as your playing the spell?

yes, if the spell has targets
And what makes it different from oblivion ring and choosing the target as it's coming into play also?

Oblivion Ring has no targets. When it resolves and enters the field its ability triggers and then you choose a target for the trigger, but often a player will just drop Oblivion Ring and say exile your Elf. If I have Unsummon, I can cast it at my Elf to save it from being exiled. I can cast it in response to either the Oblivion Ring spell or in response to the trigger. If I cast in response to the spell, you have not legally declared your target for the trigger and can choose another, however, if I cast it in response to the trigger, you declared a legal target and the trigger will be countered and can't be changed.

DCI Certified Judge & Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJ
DJ Vortex

DCI Certified Judge since July 13, 2013  - If you have any concerns with my conduct as a judge, feel free to submit feedback here.
DCI #5209514320


My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out

Sign In to post comments