Strionic Resonator (M14) and linked abilities

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Here is Strionic Resonator:
Next, here is a rule:
706.10b A copy of an ability has the same source as the original ability. If the ability refers to its source by name, the copy refers to that same object and not to any other object with the same name. The copy is considered to be the same ability by effects that count how many times that ability has resolved during the turn.

If I use Strionic Resonator to copy Oblivion Ring's enter-the-battlefield ability, exiling an additional nonland permanent, will the card exiled by the copy return along with the other when Oblivion Ring leaves the battlefield?  Before reading rule 706.10b, I would have guessed that the copy is treated like it came from a separate Oblivion Ring and the card could never return, but that rule seems to suggest otherwise.  However, O-ring's second ability says "return the exiled card..."  Does this singular wording mean that only one card can be returned when O-ring leaves?  The new temporary-exile template on Banisher Priest (see spoiler below) seems to skirt this issue.


As a side note, an interaction sort of like this is already possible with Rings of Brighthearth and Helvault, but Helvault was built with multiple exiled cards in mind, using the wording, "return all cards exiled with it..."

Furthermore, if I copy my Phyrexian Ingester's triggered ability, will X and Y in its second ability be equal to the sums of the two exiled creatures' powers and toughnesses (note that Phyrexian Ingester also uses the "the exiled card" wording)?  And what the heck happens if you do the same thing with Duplicant?

Are these questions resolved by the current rules, or will 706.10b need to be updated for M14?
Oblivion Ring's triggered abilities are NOT linked.

I'm curious as how it does work with the new template though.  Will the second permanent be returned when the original priest leaves the field or never or never exiled?

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Oblivion Ring's triggered abilities are NOT linked.

I'm curious as how it does work with the new template though.  Will the second permanent be returned when the original priest leaves the field or never or never exiled?



Why are they not linked?  This rule would seem to say that they are:

607.2a If an object has an activated or triggered ability printed on it that instructs a player to exile one or more cards and an ability printed on it that refers either to “the exiled cards” or to cards “exiled with [this object],” these abilities are linked. The second ability refers only to cards in the exile zone that were put there as a result of an instruction to exile them in the first ability. 

 


 
Also, I just saw Elite Arcanist, so the issue exists even within M14.  However, at least with this one, you have to choose X, which will correspond to the card you want to copy, but it would still be better if it said "a card exiled with Elite Arcanist" instead of "the exiled card."  Maybe they felt that that wording would be too complicated, since there normally won't be more than one exiled card.

Oblivion Ring's triggered abilities are NOT linked.

I'm curious as how it does work with the new template though.  Will the second permanent be returned when the original priest leaves the field or never or never exiled?



Why are they not linked?  This rule would seem to say that they are:

607.2a If an object has an activated or triggered ability printed on it that instructs a player to exile one or more cards and an ability printed on it that refers either to “the exiled cards” or to cards “exiled with [this object],” these abilities are linked. The second ability refers only to cards in the exile zone that were put there as a result of an instruction to exile them in the first ability. 

 


 


Uh, yeah, sorry about that, bit too early. :P
What about the new template and card? 


Oh and I like that arcanist! :D 

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The Basic rulebook, read it! A lot of basic questions are answered there!

How to autocard :
Type [c]Black Lotus[/c] to get Black Lotus.
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Also, I just saw Elite Arcanist, so the issue exists even within M14.  However, at least with this one, you have to choose X, which will correspond to the card you want to copy, but it would still be better if it said "a card exiled with Elite Arcanist" instead of "the exiled card."  Maybe they felt that that wording would be too complicated, since there normally won't be more than one exiled card.




There will only ever be one exiled card max with it anyway (cos they're linked :P).

Rules Advisor

The Basic rulebook, read it! A lot of basic questions are answered there!

How to autocard :
Type [c]Black Lotus[/c] to get Black Lotus.
Type [c=Black Lotus]The Overpowered One[/c] to get The Overpowered One.

Also, I just saw Elite Arcanist, so the issue exists even within M14.  However, at least with this one, you have to choose X, which will correspond to the card you want to copy, but it would still be better if it said "a card exiled with Elite Arcanist" instead of "the exiled card."  Maybe they felt that that wording would be too complicated, since there normally won't be more than one exiled card.




There will only ever be one exiled card max with it anyway (cos they're linked :P).



No; if you copy the ability and exile a second card, there are two cards exiled with it.

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And what the heck happens if you do the same thing with Duplicant?

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, somebody realized it was possible to use Death-Mask Duplicant and repeatable clone effects to imprint multiple cards on a Duplicant. The result was a creature with two or more simultaneous values for power and toughness (i.e. Duplicant could be 2/3 and 4/1 at the same time). In combat, the creature dealt damage equal to the sum of all its power values, and damage equal to its minimum toughness value was enough to destroy it.

This was too weird, and Wizards issued errata to duplicant so that it only counted the last creature card imprinted on it. Several years later, the issue was fixed thanks to the introduction of linked abilities and, since the errata was no longer necessary, it was removed.

So what will they do now that the issue arises again? We don't know yet

Also, I just saw Elite Arcanist, so the issue exists even within M14.  However, at least with this one, you have to choose X, which will correspond to the card you want to copy, but it would still be better if it said "a card exiled with Elite Arcanist" instead of "the exiled card."  Maybe they felt that that wording would be too complicated, since there normally won't be more than one exiled card.




There will only ever be one exiled card max with it anyway (cos they're linked :P).



No; if you copy the ability and exile a second card, there are two cards exiled with it.


What ability are you refering to? The "exiled card" in the activated ability only ever refers to the one exiled with the first triggered ability. If both abilities were doubled on the creature, each activated ability would be link to the respective triggered one, thus allowing ONLY ONE "exiled card" for each activated ability. No? 

Rules Advisor

The Basic rulebook, read it! A lot of basic questions are answered there!

How to autocard :
Type [c]Black Lotus[/c] to get Black Lotus.
Type [c=Black Lotus]The Overpowered One[/c] to get The Overpowered One.

Also, I just saw Elite Arcanist, so the issue exists even within M14.  However, at least with this one, you have to choose X, which will correspond to the card you want to copy, but it would still be better if it said "a card exiled with Elite Arcanist" instead of "the exiled card."  Maybe they felt that that wording would be too complicated, since there normally won't be more than one exiled card.




There will only ever be one exiled card max with it anyway (cos they're linked :P).



No; if you copy the ability and exile a second card, there are two cards exiled with it.


What ability are you refering to? The "exiled card" in the activated ability only ever refers to the one exiled with the first triggered ability. If both abilities were doubled on the creature, each activated ability would be link to the respective triggered one, thus allowing ONLY ONE "exiled card" for each activated ability. No? 



Since the Resonator can't copy activated abilities, there's only ability to which I could be referring in the context of this thread. And you're not "doubling the abilities on the creature," you're causing the first ability to resolve twice. The rules/rulings for this card haven't been put out, but I can almost guarantee that, should the Arcanist's ETB ability be copied, both cards exiled would be cast-able by the activated ability. (If it turns out I'm wrong, I'll admit as much, but I'm pretty confident in saying it.)

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I take the opposite stance. My guess is that the copied triggered ability won't be linked to the printed static ability. While this seems to work right with Oblivion Ring, with Phyrexian Ingester, and especially with Elite Arcanist, it's incomprehensible with Duplicant. Since that exact issue is the reason that Wizards created linked abilities, I assume that they will rule that this cannot work.
I take the opposite stance. My guess is that the copied triggered ability won't be linked to the printed static ability. While this seems to work right with Oblivion Ring, Phyrexian Ingester, and especially Elite Arcanist, it's incomprehensible with Duplicant. Since that exact issue is the reason that Wizards created linked abilities, I assume that they will rule that this cannot work.



It'd work with Duplicant: Its P/T would be that of the last-exiled card, and its types would be both (because 'it's still a [blank]' really means 'in addition to its other types,' so gaining the types of one card wouldn't override another's types). 

MTG Rules Advisor
 

The types would work out, sure, but what causes Duplicant's ability to favor the most recently exiled card's power and toughness? If that were the case, there might never have been an issue to begin with. I can see how applying the ability overrides his printed power and toughness, but we're only ever applying the change(s) one time. It's not the same as multiple abilities setting the P/T, in which case we could use the timestamps.
Thank you all for your thoughts so far.  If anyone else also has some insights on these matters, please feel free to jump in.
I think the only answer to this is "Let's wait and see what the detailed update bulletin says about how the rules have been changed." 

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Matt has effectively said "wait until the FAQ", so there's not much to discuss until the FAQ comes out.

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Questions don't have to make sense, but answers do.

I think the only answer to this is "Let's wait and see what the detailed update bulletin says about how the rules have been changed." 



But there's nothing new about this card, and nothing was announced in the rules change concerning linked abilities, meh.

Wait and see then. 

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The Basic rulebook, read it! A lot of basic questions are answered there!

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Type [c]Black Lotus[/c] to get Black Lotus.
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I think the only answer to this is "Let's wait and see what the detailed update bulletin says about how the rules have been changed." 



But there's nothing new about this card, and nothing was announced in the rules change concerning linked abilities, meh.

Wait and see then. 



Not all the rules changes have been announced yet.

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But there's nothing new about this card


With the stipulation that I am unfamiliar with the various Planar and Archenemy effects, I'm fairly sure that copying a triggered ability has never been done before.

"There's nothing [in the latest update bulletin referencing] this card."
But there's nothing new about this card


With the stipulation that I am unfamiliar with the various Planar and Archenemy effects, I'm fairly sure that copying a triggered ability has never been done before.



Copying a triggered ability doesn't have anything different than copying an activated one.

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The Basic rulebook, read it! A lot of basic questions are answered there!

How to autocard :
Type [c]Black Lotus[/c] to get Black Lotus.
Type [c=Black Lotus]The Overpowered One[/c] to get The Overpowered One.

Except, you know, the entire topic of this thread.

Activated abilities can normally be activated multiple times, so copying one usually just means not needing to pay the activation cost again. If an ability is linked to an activated ability, it'll already have wording that takes into account the possibility that that activated ability will resolve multiple times.

Certain triggered abilies (mainly enters-the-battlefield ones) will normally only trigger/resolve once per object. If an ability is linked to one of these, it will assume that that ability will resolve only once. So letting it resolve more than once creates entirely new situations that those cards weren't designed to handle and that weren't even possible pre-M14.
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