Need some help building a Hellblade. Please.

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I guess I should say hello as this is my first post here in these forums. Second, just wanted to say thanks for all the great handbooks and guides which people take the time to put together. They have proven to be a great help throughout my gaming career. In order make my post optimal I have used/copied the layout of several other posts that I have found. However, if there is a better way of creating such a post feel free to let me know.

As far as the reason for my post, it is simple; I am looking for some help and advice on a build that I have put together. I think that it's pretty decent but I just wanted to see if there was anything else I could do to make it better. Please have a look at the build below and let me know what you think:

Here are some important facts about the build ...


  • My DM is not allowing the DIS trick with my hexblade.

  • DM is allowing me to take Wicked Blade due to my barbarian MC feat.

  • The build inflicts 1d12+38 points of damage per hit using Soul Eater.

  • Once per day I can activate Berserker's Fury and inflict an additional 2d8 point of damage with my MBA (read Soul Eater) for an entire encounter.

  • Used Secret of Belial to pick up Heart Strike Power, this allows me to activate a stance which deals my Charisma modifier in extra damage.

  • He's got a few decent self buffs which can increase his defenses when required.

  • He is using an Ironscar Ashen Rod with an attached Khyber Shard of the Fiery Depth for a nice little damage boost.


Tiefling, Warlock (Hexblade), Academy Master:
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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Hexblade (Infernal), level 20
Tiefling, Warlock (Hexblade), Academy Master
Pact: Infernal Pact
Arcane Admixture Damage Type: Arcane Admixture Fire
Theme: Infernal Prince

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 13, CON 22, DEX 11, INT 11, WIS 9, CHA 24

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 11, CON 16, DEX 10, INT 10, WIS 8, CHA 17

AC: 32 Fort: 33 Ref: 27 Will: 34
HP: 129 Surges: 12 Surge Value: 32

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +20, Athletics +15, Bluff +26, Intimidate +22, Streetwise +22

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +9, Diplomacy +19, Dungeoneering +9, Endurance +15, Heal +9,
History +10, Insight +9, Nature +9, Perception +9, Religion +10, Stealth +11,
Thievery +9

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Infernal Prince Attack: Hellfire Heart
Warlock Utility: Soul Feast
Warlock Attack: Soul Eater
Warlock Attack: Blazing Doom of the Void
Warlock Attack: Reflexive Hellstrike
Feat Utility: Diabolic Transformation
Warlock Attack 1: Eldritch Bolt
Warlock Utility 2: Wrathful Aspect
Warlock Utility 4: Lesser Planar Ally
Warlock Utility 6: Dark One's Own Luck
Warlock Attack 9: Summon Warlock's Ally
Warlock Utility 10: Spined Devil's Boon
Barbarian Utility 10: Heart Strike
Academy Master Attack 11: Learned Boost
Warlock Attack 15: Armor of Summer's Glory
Warlock Utility 16: Diabolic Escape
Warlock Attack 19: Memory of Blades
Academy Master Attack 20: Master's Surge

FEATS
Level 1: Rod Expertise
Level 2: Diabolic Soul
Level 4: Imperious Majesty
Level 6: Weapon Focus (Rod) - Retrained to Fiery Blood at lvl11
Level 8: Superior Implement Training (Ashen rod)
Level 10: Hellfire Blood
Level 11: Arcane Admixture
Level 11: Fiery Blood
Level 12: Improved Defenses
Level 14: Secrets of Belial
Level 16: Battle Berserker
Level 18: Prisoner's Resolve
Level 20: Wicked Blade

ITEMS
Blade of Annihilation x1, Amulet of Protection +4 x1, Horned Helm (heroic tier) x1, Iron Armbands of Power (paragon tier) x1, Runic Chainmail +3 x1, Gloves of Eldritch Admixture (heroic tier) x1, Pierced Heart Tattoo (paragon tier) x1, Ironscar Ashen rod +4 w/Khyber Shard of the Fiery Depth (paragon tier)
====== End ======


There we go. I believe this is pretty decent when it comes to filling the striker role. I know he is not the most uber of damage dealers but he should be adequate enough. The one thing that I would really like help with is choosing a power that can best be used with the Academy Master's Master's Surge power. I just can't seem to find something that really benefits from using it.

Almost forgot, is there any way of replacing Lesser Planar Ally with something else?

Volf
I really don't know anything about Hexblades, but a few quick pieces of advice:

1. Wicked Blade is terrible, don't take it.

2. Heart Strike being a daily seems underwhelming - I'd rather Eagle's Splendor (all day).

3. Get Superior Will.

4. What is mc Barb actually getting you?

5. Your stats confuse me - can't you go 17/15/13 with the same primary/secondary and a better Str? 
I really don't know anything about Hexblades, but a few quick pieces of advice:

1. Wicked Blade is terrible, don't take it.

2. Heart Strike being a daily seems underwhelming - I'd rather Eagle's Splendor (all day).

3. Get Superior Will.

4. What is mc Barb actually getting you?

5. Your stats confuse me - can't you go 17/15/13 with the same primary/secondary and a better Str?


First off, thanks for your response! Here are my responses:

1.  So no Wicked Blade ... check.

2. I will swap out Heart Srike for Eagle's Splendor. I have to agree with your logic. Having a buff all day long is awesome.

3. I guess I can swap out Prisoner's Resolve for Superior Will. What do you think?

4. The Barbarian MC feat is mostly for Berserker's Fury. I know that its only once per day but it lasts an entire encounter and adds +2d8 damage to my Soul Eater attacks.

5. The stats got a little messed up as I was tinkering with several things before posting the build. You are correct though, I could go with 17/15/13 with the same primary and secondary stats.

Volf

Show your DM this, an official FAQ from Wizards on the DIS issue.  By not allowing it, he's houseruling a direct nerf on your character.  Obviously it's his table, but this is clear, official, RAW.


Q: If my fey-pact warlock takes the Arcane Implement Proficiency feat from the Arcane Powers book, choosing the light blade implement, can I benefit from the Dual Implement Spellcaster feat with hexblade powers?
A: Yes, a hexblade can use the Arcane Implement Proficiency and Dual Implement Spellcaster feats to add the non-pact weapon implement’s enhancement bonus twice



How are you taking Wicked Blade as a Barbarian?  Barbarians are Primal, not Martial.

You don't actually have a Warlock's Curse per se, the extra damage coming from your pact boon, so RAW the property on those gloves does nothing, only the daily ability.  The daily ability is basically worth, most efficient usage, 3 encounters/day, 5d6 damage, or 17.5. There are better gloves.  Even Strikebacks would do more than that per day if they just triggered in one encounter.
Show your DM this, an official FAQ from Wizards on the DIS issue.  By not allowing it, he's houseruling a direct nerf on your character.  Obviously it's his table, but this is clear, official, RAW.

Q: If my fey-pact warlock takes the Arcane Implement Proficiency feat from the Arcane Powers book, choosing the light blade implement, can I benefit from the Dual Implement Spellcaster feat with hexblade powers?
A: Yes, a hexblade can use the Arcane Implement Proficiency and Dual Implement Spellcaster feats to add the non-pact weapon implement’s enhancement bonus twice



I have shown him that FAQ clarification ... and he believes it to be ridiculous. Although I think his will might be crumbling. I have been speaking to him about it for a couple of days now and he might actually let me do this.

How are you taking Wicked Blade as a Barbarian?  Barbarians are Primal, not Martial.


Barbarian (Berserker) is listed in the character builder as Martial/Primal. I verified this with my DM and he said it was fine if I took it.

You don't actually have a Warlock's Curse per se, the extra damage coming from your pact boon, so RAW the property on those gloves does nothing, only the daily ability.


Darn. Thats a good catch. I guess I will have to find something else that offers a damage boost of some sort. Although I swear I have found these as part of other hexblade builds that were posted here in the Hexblade Handbook. I will have to verify if they do/don't work.

Volf

Barbarian (Berserker) is listed in the character builder as Martial/Primal. I verified this with my DM and he said it was fine if I took it.



Oh, duh, Berserker.  Sorry, knew I'd make one stupid mistake in that comment.  I should get DDI...

Being unwilling to abide by the rules, especially when they have been officially shoved in his face so to speak, is usually a bad sign. Hexblades have a hard time keeping up with striker benchmarks as it is, nerfing them is not doing anyone any favors.
In light of everyone's advice and help I have finally been able to put together a revised build. I also had a chance to speak with my DM regarding DIS. He is now officially green lighting it! Cool Below is the updated build.

A few things that are still bothering me: 1) should I replace Prisoner's Resolve with Superior Will, 2) which power should I take when swapping out Summon Warlock's Ally, 3) should I take Eagle's Splendor instead of Heart Strike, and lastly, is my feat progression alright?

Important changes:


  • Attached my dragonshard to my Blade of Annihilation.

  • Replaced my rod with a Rod of the Bloodthorn (Ashen Rod) +4.

  • Damage is now 1d12+42 using Soul Eater.

  • Instead of taking AIP I chose Blade Initiate. Any slight boost to AC is always a good idea.

  • Was able to pick up DIS!


Updated Build:
Show
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Hexblade (Infernal), level 20
Tiefling, Warlock (Hexblade), Academy Master
Pact: Infernal Pact
Arcane Admixture Damage Type: Arcane Admixture Fire
Theme: Infernal Prince

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 11, CON 22, DEX 11, INT 13, WIS 9, CHA 24

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 16, DEX 10, INT 11, WIS 8, CHA 17

AC: 32 Fort: 33 Ref: 27 Will: 34
HP: 129 Surges: 12 Surge Value: 32

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +20, Athletics +15, Bluff +26, Intimidate +22, Streetwise +22

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +9, Diplomacy +19, Dungeoneering +9, Endurance +15, Heal +9,
History +10, Insight +9, Nature +9, Perception +9, Religion +10, Stealth +11,
Thievery +9

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Infernal Prince Attack: Hellfire Heart
Warlock Utility: Soul Feast
Warlock Attack: Soul Eater
Warlock Attack: Blazing Doom of the Void
Warlock Attack: Reflexive Hellstrike
Feat Utility: Diabolic Transformation
Warlock Attack 1: Eldritch Bolt
Warlock Utility 2: Wrathful Aspect
Warlock Utility 4: Lesser Planar Ally
Warlock Utility 6: Dark One's Own Luck
Warlock Attack 9: Summon Warlock's Ally
Warlock Utility 10: Spined Devil's Boon
Barbarian Utility 10: Heart Strike
Academy Master Attack 11: Learned Boost
Warlock Attack 15: Armor of Summer's Glory
Warlock Utility 16: Diabolic Escape
Warlock Attack 19: Memory of Blades
Academy Master Attack 20: Master's Surge

FEATS
Level 1: Rod Expertise
Level 2: Diabolic Soul
Level 4: Imperious Majesty
Level 6: Weapon Focus (Rod) - Retrained to Fiery Blood at lvl11
Level 8: Superior Implement Training (Ashen rod)
Level 10: Hellfire Blood
Level 11: Arcane Admixture
Level 11: Fiery Blood
Level 12: Blade Initiate
Level 14: Dual Implement Spellcaster
Level 16: Secrets of Belial
Level 18: Improved Defenses
Level 20: Prisoner's Resolve

ITEMS
Blade of Annihilation x1 w/Khyber Shard of the Fiery Depth (paragon tier), Amulet of Protection +4 x1, Horned Helm (heroic tier) x1, Iron Armbands of Power (paragon tier) x1, Runic Chainmail +3 x1, Gloves of Eldritch Admixture (heroic tier) x1, Pierced Heart Tattoo (paragon tier) x1, Rod of the Bloodthorn Ashen Rod +4


Please let me know if there is any way of making this better.

All the help so far is awesome!

Thanks
Volf
Until you dropped Battle Berserker you couldn't actually take Heart Strike with Secrets of Belial... because its a utility from a class you don't belong too and you are already a barbarian.

That being said, I suggest Eagle's Spendor.   Also.. why not take both Superior Will and Prisoner's Resolve?
Ours is a world where people don't know what they want, and are willing to go through hell to get it. -Don Marquis
You did it again with your stats, you know.

By starting with 17/15/12, you end up with exactly the same stats after level 4, except you gain 1 point you can put elsewhere - into str would let you get scale at epic, as one possibility.

Did they change DIS so it no longer requires 13 dex?  Not having Insider, I'm stuck with what Arcane Power says, and they didn't errata it that I can see.

We already went over why your gloves don't work.  Find any pair that are worth more than 18 damage per day.
Until you dropped Battle Berserker you couldn't actually take Heart Strike with Secrets of Belial... because its a utility from a class you don't belong too and you are already a barbarian.


Good point. I failed to remember that obtaining an MC feat would mean I am technically a Barbarian and therefore unable to take Heart Strike. Thankfully, thats no longer a problem now.

That being said, I suggest Eagle's Spendor.   Also.. why not take both Superior Will and Prisoner's Resolve?


I went with Eagle's Splendor. The reason why I am not taking both atm is because I no more available feat slots.

You did it again with your stats, you know.

By starting with 17/15/12, you end up with exactly the same stats after level 4, except you gain 1 point you can put elsewhere - into str would let you get scale at epic, as one possibility.


Well, that was a bit of a brain fart. Sorry I was tinkering with the stats in order to meet the requirements for DIS. I have finally fixed that problem.

Did they change DIS so it no longer requires 13 dex?  Not having Insider, I'm stuck with what Arcane Power says, and they didn't errata it that I can see.


DIS requires a Dexterity of 13.

We already went over why your gloves don't work.  Find any pair that are worth more than 18 damage per day.


I am not using the gloves for my curse (as I don't have one), I am just using them as a damage boost. They have 5 charges per day, each inflicting an additional 1d6 points of either acid, cold or fire. This additional damage is simply added to the next attack I make. It does not specify that it must be done with my curse.

Below is what I think is the final version of the build. I have taken everyone's advice and hopefully now have a passable character. Please note that I chose AIP instead of Blade Initiate as I was having trouble meeting that stat requirements for this as well as DIS. I also swapped out Summon Warlock's Ally for Summons of Khirad. If there is anything else that I am missing please let me know.

Updated Build:
Show
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Hexblade (Infernal), level 20
Tiefling, Warlock (Hexblade), Academy Master
Pact: Infernal Pact
Arcane Admixture Damage Type: Arcane Admixture Fire
Arcane Implement Proficiency Option: Arcane Implement Proficiency (heavy blade group)
Theme: Infernal Prince
 
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 12, CON 22, DEX 13, INT 11, WIS 9, CHA 24
 
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 11, CON 15, DEX 12, INT 10, WIS 8, CHA 17
 
AC: 32 Fort: 33 Ref: 28 Will: 34
HP: 129 Surges: 12 Surge Value: 32
 
TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +20, Bluff +26, Intimidate +22, Streetwise +22
 
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +10, Athletics +10, Diplomacy +19, Dungeoneering +9, Endurance +15, Heal +9, History +10, Insight +9, Nature +9, Perception +9, Religion +10, Stealth +12, Thievery +10
 
POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Infernal Prince Attack: Hellfire Heart
Warlock Utility: Soul Feast
Warlock Attack: Soul Eater
Warlock Attack: Blazing Doom of the Void
Warlock Attack: Reflexive Hellstrike
Feat Utility: Diabolic Transformation
Warlock Attack 1: Eldritch Bolt
Warlock Utility 2: Wrathful Aspect
Warlock Utility 4: Lesser Planar Ally
Druid Utility 6: Eagle's Splendor
Warlock Attack 9: Summon Warlock's Ally retrained to Summons of Khirad
Warlock Utility 10: Spined Devil's Boon
Academy Master Attack 11: Learned Boost
Academy Master Utility 12: Refined Recall
Warlock Attack 15: Armor of Summer's Glory
Warlock Utility 16: Diabolic Escape
Warlock Attack 19: Memory of Blades
Academy Master Attack 20: Master's Surge
 
FEATS
Level 1: Rod Expertise
Level 2: Diabolic Soul
Level 4: Imperious Majesty
Level 6: Weapon Focus (Rod) - Retrained to Fiery Blood at lvl11
Level 8: Superior Implement Training (Ashen rod)
Level 10: Hellfire Blood
Level 11: Arcane Admixture
Level 11: Fiery Blood
Level 12: Arcane Implement Proficiency
Level 14: Dual Implement Spellcaster
Level 16: Secrets of Belial
Level 18: Improved Defenses
Level 20: Prisoner's Resolve
 
ITEMS
Blade of Annihilation x1 w/Khyber Shard of the Fiery Depth (paragon tier), Amulet of Protection +4 x1, Horned Helm (heroic tier) x1, Iron Armbands of Power (paragon tier) x1, Runic Chainmail +3 x1, Gloves of Eldritch Admixture (heroic tier) x1, Pierced Heart Tattoo (paragon tier) x1, Ashen rod of the Bloodthorn +4 x1
====== End ======


Thanks
Volf
Again, your stats. What is a 12 Str getting you that's better than a 14 Dex? +1 initiative and Reflex sounds better than... athletics?

Just go 17/15/13. 
Again, your stats. What is a 12 Str getting you that's better than a 14 Dex? +1 initiative and Reflex sounds better than... athletics?

Just go 17/15/13. 


I am aiming for scale in epic.


I am not using the gloves for my curse (as I don't have one), I am just using them as a damage boost. They have 5 charges per day, each inflicting an additional 1d6 points of either acid, cold or fire. This additional damage is simply added to the next attack I make. It does not specify that it must be done with my curse.



No, but simple math shows that power isn't that great.

1d6 damage times 5 charges is an average of 17.5 damage per DAY if you use it most efficiently (over 3 encounters, two bursts of 2 charges and one of 1 charge).
I'm not sure what kind of item budget you're working with here, since you're still using a few heroic tier pieces, but if you need heroic gloves, Strikebacks, if they trigger one single time in those three encounters, will do at least 40 or so damage as long as you hit (and you should, Hellblades can get decently accurate).  But they could trigger in all three encounters, in which case they're a whole ton more damage per day.  This is the same reasoning that a lot of hexblades take White Lotus Master Riposte.
There may be better gloves out there for you at higher tiers, but I don't have the knowledge or the DDI.  Just observing that your current ones appear weak mathematically.
Those gloves are much better. In all honesty I was being somewhat lazy and choose the eldritch gauntlets because they were listed in another handbook (or maybe is was some other build I had found). Nonetheless, the Strikebacks gloves seem like a pretty good investment. I guess I will have to fish through the DDI to see if there is something better.

Thanks
Volf
Being unwilling to abide by the rules, especially when they have been officially shoved in his face so to speak, is usually a bad sign. Hexblades have a hard time keeping up with striker benchmarks as it is, nerfing them is not doing anyone any favors.



Having a player bully a DM about a houserule stinks of munchkinism, regardless of whether the houserule in question is good or bad.
Being unwilling to abide by the rules, especially when they have been officially shoved in his face so to speak, is usually a bad sign. Hexblades have a hard time keeping up with striker benchmarks as it is, nerfing them is not doing anyone any favors.



Having a player bully a DM about a houserule stinks of munchkinism, regardless of whether the houserule in question is good or bad.


Any DM that houserules a nerf to Hexblades deserves to be bullied.

I am aiming for scale in epic.




Not worth it.  Yes, it's +1 to checks, and a little more to AC, but AC matters less in Epic because a lot more things are targeting NADs.  Go for the stats that are vital.
Being unwilling to abide by the rules, especially when they have been officially shoved in his face so to speak, is usually a bad sign. Hexblades have a hard time keeping up with striker benchmarks as it is, nerfing them is not doing anyone any favors.



Having a player bully a DM about a houserule stinks of munchkinism, regardless of whether the houserule in question is good or bad.


Any DM that houserules a nerf to Hexblades deserves to be bullied.



No one deserves to be bullied.  NO ONE.

A houserule was made, the player didn't like it.  Now, the DM has had to back up from his houserule and will likely no longer be as good a DM because he will constantly be second-guessing his ideas and rulings.  Good job, D&D community, in killing someone's will to be creative.
  While it's true that no one deserves to be bullied, I don't see any indication that the DM *was* being bullied. You, Undrhil, simply made that claim out of the blue.

  I also don't see a whole lot of creativity in, "No, you can't use DIS just because!"
  While it's true that no one deserves to be bullied, I don't see any indication that the DM *was* being bullied. You, Undrhil, simply made that claim out of the blue.

  I also don't see a whole lot of creativity in, "No, you can't use DIS just because!"



Being constantly harrassed after passing down a houserule simply because the player didn't agree with the houserule.  It doesn't matter his reasons, the DM made a houserule.
  While it's true that no one deserves to be bullied, I don't see any indication that the DM *was* being bullied. You, Undrhil, simply made that claim out of the blue.

  I also don't see a whole lot of creativity in, "No, you can't use DIS just because!"



Being constantly harrassed after passing down a houserule simply because the player didn't agree with the houserule.  It doesn't matter his reasons, the DM made a houserule.

Unless the DM is aware that that houserule reduces the effectiveness of a class that already struggles later in the game and is willing and able to adjust for that, then I'd say the player has every right to argue his case.  Especially since he needs an extra feat to be able to use DIS with his pact weapon in the first place, if I remember right.

Nah, anyone who thinks Dual Implement Spellcaster doesn't work for Hexblades does deserve to be "bullied", because they are being spiteful and moronic.
Such mistakes are made mostly by DMs that have either no post heroic gaming experience or are only playing low-op games.
Being unwilling to abide by the rules, especially when they have been officially shoved in his face so to speak, is usually a bad sign. Hexblades have a hard time keeping up with striker benchmarks as it is, nerfing them is not doing anyone any favors.



Having a player bully a DM about a houserule stinks of munchkinism, regardless of whether the houserule in question is good or bad.


Any DM that houserules a nerf to Hexblades deserves to be bullied.



No one deserves to be bullied.  NO ONE.

A houserule was made, the player didn't like it.  Now, the DM has had to back up from his houserule and will likely no longer be as good a DM because he will constantly be second-guessing his ideas and rulings.  Good job, D&D community, in killing someone's will to be creative.


I am unsure why you are assuming that there was any bullying. Just to clarify, I had a few conversations with my DM, and other players, to see if we could all come to a decision we all approved of and would accept. The DM, after a couple days of mulling it over, agreed to allow me to use DIS. The players also agreed. I know that in one of my posts I alluded to "...his will is crumbling", but that was just said in good humor. I am not even sure how you could possibly even quantify this, "will likely no longer be as good a DM because he will constantly be second-guessing his ideas and rulings." Please refrain from assuming you somehow know my DM or can in some other way discern his gaming related talent. On another note, how does this help my original request at all? I hope that the conversation can focus on something that is relevant to my request instead of being derailed into a conversation about "DM bullying".

Volf

Edit:

Sorry I missed this:


I am aiming for scale in epic.




Not worth it.  Yes, it's +1 to checks, and a little more to AC, but AC matters less in Epic because a lot more things are targeting NADs.  Go for the stats that are vital.


Thats an excellent point! I will tweak my stats accordingly.
A houserule was made, the player didn't like it.  Now, the DM has had to back up from his houserule and will likely no longer be as good a DM because he will constantly be second-guessing his ideas and rulings.  Good job, D&D community, in killing someone's will to be creative.

I rotate as DM with two other guys who don't know the rules as well as I do, and we often discuss possible houserules/rulings. When I point out a mechanical reason why their proposed rule might not work, they either accept it, or we rework the houserule somehow to make it work better. Either way, they learn a little more about the rules of the game each time.

Bullying is stupid and counterproductive, but you don't need to bully someone to express your opinion and the reasoning behind it. Not all knowledgable players fit the derogatory image of the dreaded rules lawyer.

If done in an atmosphere of respect and good will, this kind of discussion makes DMs more knowledgable, which in turn makes them more confident, and ultimately just plain better at DMing. So yes, good job D&D community.
A houserule was made, the player didn't like it.  Now, the DM has had to back up from his houserule and will likely no longer be as good a DM because he will constantly be second-guessing his ideas and rulings.  Good job, D&D community, in killing someone's will to be creative.

I rotate as DM with two other guys who don't know the rules as well as I do, and we often discuss possible houserules/rulings. When I point out a mechanical reason why their proposed rule might not work, they either accept it, or we rework the houserule somehow to make it work better. Either way, they learn a little more about the rules of the game each time.

Bullying is stupid and counterproductive, but you don't need to bully someone to express your opinion and the reasoning behind it. Not all knowledgable players fit the derogatory image of the dreaded rules lawyer.

If done in an atmosphere of respect and good will, this kind of discussion makes DMs more knowledgable, which in turn makes them more confident, and ultimately just plain better at DMing. So yes, good job D&D community.


Although I can appreciate your post in voicing your opinion I was really hoping for something that actually had to do with my original request. I will admit that this is somewhat frustrating that my first venture into these forums resulted in some absurd conversation about DM bullying. Even after I asked, politely, that we focus on something other than Undrhil's rant about DM bullying. At the very least Scatterbrained you could have included something that was on topic.

Volf

Welcome to the internet? Tongue Out
Welcome to the internet?


Lol, I know its a bit absurd to be asking that everyone keeps to the main topic. However, I always thought that there was a certain etiquette that should be followed when making posts. This way useless tirades can be averted. Still though, I am extremely thankful for those folks that did attempt to help me. Laughing

Volf

The train jumped the tracks two days ago with several OT posts, and you didn't seem to have a problem with it then. I was under the impression that all your questions had been answered and the build is pretty much done.
The train jumped the tracks two days ago with several OT posts, and you didn't seem to have a problem with it then. I was under the impression that all your questions had been answered and the build is pretty much done.


Wish I had caught that earlier. My access to the internet can be a bit sporadic due to work. However, I really don't think that simply because I did not make a post that it excuses the fact of what happened.

Volf

Are you having a discussion about having a discussion? 

If you still have some lingering questions, Volfog,  please state them.
Are you having a discussion about having a discussion?


Sadly, I am. Looks like I am now at fault for derailing my own thread.

If you still have some lingering questions, Volfog,  please state them.


I actually did have some more questions, but I won't bother posting them. I think it best that this thread simply dies.

Volf

I actually did have some more questions, but I won't bother posting them. I think it best that this thread simply dies.

Well that's just silly. Go ahead and ask your questions. If threads died every time they derailed, no one would finish a build ever.

Understand that with the possible exception of Undrhil (who you pacified yourself), no one here has gotten upset or intended to upset anyone else. My comments were only to explain myself and weren't intended to sound snippy or angry.

This forum The Internet is great, but you should learn to either relax and enjoy a little OT banter, or just ignore OT posts altogether. Most of the time they won't stop you from getting the info that you need. I promise I won't bother you anymore in this thread. Good luck with your game! Smile
I actually did have some more questions, but I won't bother posting them. I think it best that this thread simply dies.

Well that's just silly. Go ahead and ask your questions. If threads died every time they derailed, no one would finish a build ever.

Understand that with the possible exception of Undrhil (who you pacified yourself), no one here has gotten upset or intended to upset anyone else. My comments were only to explain myself and weren't intended to sound snippy or angry.

This forum The Internet is great, but you should learn to either relax and enjoy a little OT banter, or just ignore OT posts altogether. Most of the time they won't stop you from getting the info that you need. I promise I won't bother you anymore in this thread. Good luck with your game!


No worries Scatterbrained! I never thought of your comments as either snippy or angry. Also, I should have mentioned that the reason I am not posting my additional questions is that I was being lazy. My questions were simple and answered after about 10 minutes worth of searching the web (and these forums). Actually, I do have one question ... where/how is the best method of figuring out the builds DPS? I know that it won't be as amazing as other striker builds but I would like to ensure that it isn't so terrible that it should be scrapped. If I can determine my base DPS I might be able to figure out where/how to tweak it to make it more viable.

Volf

where/how is the best method of figuring out the builds DPS? I know that it won't be as amazing as other striker builds but I would like to ensure that it isn't so terrible that it should be scrapped. If I can determine my base DPS I might be able to figure out where/how to tweak it to make it more viable.

Volf



The unit of time used in D&D is rounds, not seconds (World of Warcraft), so you want DPR.  Google something like "striker DPR benchmarks 4E".  You'll get a post like this one:

www.g33kwatch.com/tabletop/rpg/dd-4th-ed...

The basic idea is to calculate how much expected damage you can do on your turn every round without any special assumptions.  This requires that you know the chance of missing, hitting, and critting and the amount of damage you do in each of those three cases, and you take the weighted sum of those three possibilities.

Another important calculation for strikers is nova potential: this is defined as the maximum expected damage you can do in one round, with different categories depending on how limited the used resources are: there are encounter novas, action point novas, and daily novas.
where/how is the best method of figuring out the builds DPS? I know that it won't be as amazing as other striker builds but I would like to ensure that it isn't so terrible that it should be scrapped. If I can determine my base DPS I might be able to figure out where/how to tweak it to make it more viable.

Volf



The unit of time used in D&D is rounds, not seconds (World of Warcraft), so you want DPR.  Google something like "striker DPR benchmarks 4E".  You'll get a post like this one:

www.g33kwatch.com/tabletop/rpg/dd-4th-ed...

The basic idea is to calculate how much expected damage you can do on your turn every round without any special assumptions.  This requires that you know the chance of missing, hitting, and critting and the amount of damage you do in each of those three cases, and you take the weighted sum of those three possibilities.

Another important calculation for strikers is nova potential: this is defined as the maximum expected damage you can do in one round, with different categories depending on how limited the used resources are: there are encounter novas, action point novas, and daily novas.


Thanks for the link! I checked and found the formulas for figuring out DPR and KPR. Take a look below at my calculations and let me know if I messed up (I am hoping that they are accurate).

DPR CALCULATIONS
Att: +28 vs AC (after first successful hit, attack increases to +31 vs AC)
Dam: 1d12+42
Avg Dam: 48.5, Crit Dam: 54 + 4d8 (Ashen Rod of the Bloodthorn)

DPR: [(0.70 - 0.05)] * 48.5 + [0.05 * (54+18)] = 0.65 * 48.5 + 3.6 = 35.125
DPR (After first successful hit): [(0.90 - 0.05)] * 48.5 + [0.05 * (54+18)] = 0.85 * 48.5 + 3.6 = 44.825

Attack Bonus Breakdown:
Show
+7 Charisma modifier
+10 half your level
+2 proficiency bonus
+4 enhancement bonus
+1 Power bonus - Infernal Prince Starting Feature
+1 Hellfire Blood bonus
+2 Feat Bonus - Rod Expertise
+1 Eagle's Splendor


Damage Bons Breakdown:
Show
+7 Charisma modifier
+4 enchancement bonus
+10 bonus - Infernal Pact Reward
+1 Hellfire Blood bonus
+3 Feat bonus - Fiery Blood
+3 bonus - Fundamental Mastery
+4 item bonus - Iron Armbands of Power
+3 Superior Implement bonus - Ashen Rod
+3 Kyber Shard of the Fiery Depth
+4 Dual Implement Spellcaster


Just in case, here is the updated build:
Show
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======



Hexblade (Infernal), level 20
Tiefling, Warlock (Hexblade), Academy Master
Pact: Infernal Pact
Arcane Admixture Damage Type: Arcane Admixture Fire
Arcane Implement Proficiency Option: Arcane Implement Proficiency (heavy blade group)
Theme: Infernal Prince
 
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 11, CON 22, DEX 14, INT 11, WIS 9, CHA 24
 
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 15, DEX 13, INT 10, WIS 8, CHA 17
 
 
AC: 32 Fort: 33 Ref: 29 Will: 34
HP: 129 Surges: 12 Surge Value: 32
 
TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +20, Bluff +26, Intimidate +22, Streetwise +22
 
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +11, Athletics +9, Diplomacy +19, Dungeoneering +9, Endurance +15, Heal +9, History +10, Insight +9, Nature +9, Perception +9, Religion +10, Stealth +13, Thievery +11
 
POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Infernal Prince Attack: Hellfire Heart
Warlock Utility: Soul Feast
Warlock Attack: Soul Eater
Warlock Attack: Blazing Doom of the Void
Warlock Attack: Reflexive Hellstrike
Feat Utility: Diabolic Transformation
Warlock Attack 1: Eldritch Bolt
Warlock Utility 2: Wrathful Aspect
Warlock Utility 4: Lesser Planar Ally
Druid Utility 6: Eagle's Splendor
Warlock Attack 9: Summons of Khirad
Warlock Utility 10: Spined Devil's Boon
Academy Master Attack 11: Learned Boost
Academy Master Utility 12: Refined Recall
Warlock Attack 15: Armor of Summer's Glory
Warlock Utility 16: Diabolic Escape
Warlock Attack 19: Memory of Blades
Academy Master Attack 20: Master's Surge
 
FEATS
Level 1: Rod Expertise
Level 2: Diabolic Soul
Level 4: Imperious Majesty
Level 8: Superior Implement Training (Ashen rod)
Level 10: Hellfire Blood
Level 11: Arcane Admixture
Level 11: Fiery Blood
Level 12: Arcane Implement Proficiency
Level 14: Dual Implement Spellcaster
Level 16: Secrets of Belial
Level 18: Improved Defenses
Level 20: Prisoner's Resolve
 
ITEMS
Blade of Annihilation x1
Adventurer's Kit
Amulet of Protection +4 x1
Horned Helm (heroic tier) x1
Iron Armbands of Power (paragon tier) x1
Runic Chainmail +3 x1
Pierced Heart Tattoo (paragon tier) x1
Khyber Shard of the Fiery Depth (paragon tier)
Ashen rod of the Bloodthorn +4 x1
Strikebacks x1
====== End ======




I was also unsure of which glove slot item to go with. Current ones are the Strikebacks but I was also thinking that either the Gauntlets of Blood or the Burning Gauntlets could be decent as well.

Edit: Forgot to include the KPR calculations. KPR = 0.24. This is based on the DPR after the first successful attack lands. So, I checked the DPR thread and whatnot and realised this is craptastic. Please tell me that I am missing something!

Volf
Yeah, you need to powerswap for a multi-attack power.

Academy master is pretty meh. I would two-fold pact for student of caiphon and use a radiant weapon but that involves re-writing most of your build.

When combats only last 3-5 rounds, nova is much more important than ad infinitum DPR.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Finally had a chance to rethink my setup and realised that I made a very stupid mistake in not taking WLR and WLMR. I had a lightbulb moment and now realize why its so important. With that in mind I have updated the build. Please see below. Also, I have included some Inferno Oil as well as a Whetstone of Combustion. Both of these should add to my overall DPR. I know that technically speaking I cannot apply either because I have my rod in one hand and the summoned pact blade in the other. However, I checked with my DM and he said it was not problem to apply both. He would allow me to do so or I could just get someone else if needed.

I was trying to figure out my new DPR but am having a bit of trouble calculating it. I am unsure how to incorporate WLR/WLMR and the oil and whetstone. Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.

Updated build:
Show
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Hexblade (Infernal), level 20
Tiefling, Warlock (Hexblade), Academy Master
Pact: Infernal Pact
Arcane Admixture Damage Type: Arcane Admixture Fire
Arcane Implement Proficiency Option: Arcane Implement Proficiency (heavy blade group)
Theme: Infernal Prince
 
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 11, CON 22, DEX 14, INT 11, WIS 9, CHA 24
 
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 15, DEX 13, INT 10, WIS 8, CHA 17
 
 
AC: 32 Fort: 33 Ref: 29 Will: 34
HP: 129 Surges: 12 Surge Value: 32
 
TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +20, Bluff +26, Intimidate +22, Streetwise +22
 
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +11, Athletics +9, Diplomacy +19, Dungeoneering +9, Endurance +15, Heal +9, History +10,
Insight +9, Nature +9, Perception +9, Religion +10, Stealth +13, Thievery +11
 
POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Infernal Prince Attack: Hellfire Heart
Warlock Utility: Soul Feast
Warlock Attack: Soul Eater
Warlock Attack: Blazing Doom of the Void
Warlock Attack: Reflexive Hellstrike
Feat Utility: Diabolic Transformation
Warlock Attack 1: Eldritch Bolt
Warlock Utility 2: Wrathful Aspect
Warlock Utility 4: Lesser Planar Ally
Druid Utility 6: Eagle's Splendor
Warlock Attack 9: Summons of Khirad
Warlock Utility 10: Spined Devil's Boon
Academy Master Attack 11: Learned Boost
Academy Master Utility 12: Refined Recall
Warlock Attack 15: Armor of Summer's Glory
Warlock Utility 16: Diabolic Escape
Warlock Attack 19: Memory of Blades
Academy Master Attack 20: Master's Surge
 
FEATS
Level 1: Rod Expertise
Level 2: Diabolic Soul
Level 4: White Lotus Riposte
Level 8: Superior Implement Training (Ashen rod)
Level 10: Hellfire Blood
Level 11: Arcane Admixture
Level 11: Fiery Blood
Level 12: Arcane Implement Proficiency
Level 14: Dual Implement Spellcaster
Level 16: Secrets of Belial
Level 18: Improved Defenses
Level 20: White Lotus Master Riposte
 
ITEMS
Blade of Annihilation x1
Adventurer's Kit
Amulet of Protection +4 x1
Horned Helm (heroic tier) x1
Iron Armbands of Power (paragon tier) x1
Runic Chainmail +3 x1
Pierced Heart Tattoo (paragon tier) x1
Khyber Shard of the Fiery Depth (paragon tier)
Strikebacks x1
Whetstone of Combustion (paragon tier)
Ashen rod of the Bloodthorn +4 x1
Inferno Oil (level 20)
====== End ======


DPR related info:
Att: +28 vs AC (after first successful hit, attack increases to +31 vs AC)
Dam: 1d12+42 (after first successful hit, using a whetstone of combustion(paragon) and inferno oil, damage increases to 1d12+52 or 1d12+62 if inferno oil hits)
Avg Dam: 48.5, Crit Dam: 54 + 4d8 (Ashen Rod of the Bloodthorn +4)

I believe with these changes/gear additions that the DPR of the build should be roughly where it needs to be in order to be effective.


Volf