Magic 2014 Card Interaction: "Is it supposed to work this way?"

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Protean Hydra never gets damage marked on it because of its replacement effect, instead damage removes its counters, bringing it down to 0/0. But because the hydra was getting a temp buff (Giant Growth) it was a 3/3 when all the counters were removed and because damage doesn't stay marked on the hydra, it never died.

Deathtouch also doesn't work, because the original "deathtouch" damage is prevented by the same replacement effect. The hydra never receives damage from a creature, unless you Turn to Frog it or something.

In short, if you have a Protean Hydra with Glorious Anthem it will never die from damage unless the damage can't be prevented (Banefire or something)
That's what I said, yeah, but thanks
I cast "Distress" and forced my opponent to discard a serra angel, then tried to follow with a "Grim Return" but it told me there were no valid targets.

 
I cast "Distress" and forced my opponent to discard a serra angel, then tried to follow with a "Grim Return" but it told me there were no valid targets.

 


grim return 'put there from the battlefield this turn'

Robvalue: Copy target bug or glitch. You may choose a new card for the copy...

Will never buy games made by Arena Net again.

Will not buy Duel 2015 until 2HG reinstated.

 

Grei wrote:

Orc_Welfin wrote:
 I've removed content from this thread. 


Nice to know removing content is a company wide policy.
I just read one of the loading screen's messages; "Creatures with Hexproof cannot be targeted by it's controlloer's opponants."

Is this how the rule works?  I thought no one could target hexproof. 
Hexproof is opponents only
Shroud is the one that prevents all targeting
Hexproof is opponents only
Shroud is the one that prevents all targeting



Ah right, had them mixed-up.
Playing on 360 vs Garruk in a custom game.

I have 5 Plains at the start of my turn after playing one.

On the battlefield I have Mentor of the Meek, a single Human 1/1 token, and Honor of the Pure

I cast Thraben Doomsayer and am not given the option of paying to draw another card.

Is it supposed to work this way, I can see why it would, I am just surprised.

[edit] On Garruk's next turn he cast Bramblecrush and targeted my Honor of the Pure so I am unable to say if it reacts the same later in the game.[/edit] 
Honor of the Pure generates a continuous effect, which always applies to each creature you control.
When Thraben Doomsayer enters the battlefield, it's already a 3/3.
Wild Pair has an (as I believe it) unintended effect with the Sliver deck.

Wild Pair states that when a creature card enters the battlefield, if it was played from my hand, search for a card with equal T/P to the card I played.

How it works in DotP 2014 is that the card I played is first altered by my Sliver passives, and then I search for that altered T/P

Shouldn't this be considered a bug? It was explained to me that the bonus from my sliver's are a static passive, and that there is never a time that the card is on the battlefield that these bonuses are not being applied. But the wording of Wild Pair states that when the card enters the battlefield. To me, this means that it is a specific point in time, when the card has been cast (so it can't be counterspelled at this point) but isn't on the battlefield yet.

How can you enter something that you are in? You cannot enter a room you are standing in. Enter is a transitory word, the act of entering moves you out of one area and into another. I don't see how these static bonuses would effect it because until it has entered the battlefield, it would not be on the battlefield. 

So since Wild Pair says that when it enters, aka when it is in that trasitory period. So shouldn't it work on the base, unmodified T/P of the card you played? That seems to be the logic behind who put the card into the deck. I mean, Wild Pair is pretty useless with it triggering off of the modified T/P, since most of the slivers are no larger than 3/3.
Same idea as the Mentor of the Meek example above. The creatures enter the battlefield at their altered P/T (there is never a moment when they are on the battlefield and NOT augmented). Also, "enters" isn't transitory....it's the moment it's actually on the battlefield.

 

grim return 'put there from the battlefield this turn'


See now, you're assuming I can read... :?

Nice call, can't believe I glossed over that.


Second problem:


My opponent blocked and then cast "Turn to Frog" on my Protean Hydra.  He did not, in fact, turn into anything.  He just gained counters. 
Turn to Frog turned the Protean Hydra from a 0/0 Green Hydra with n +1/+1 counters into a 1/1 Blue Frog with n +1/+1 counters.
Working as intended.
Is this working as intended?

Guardians of Light has a creature with Spirit Mantle attached.

I cast Soul's Fire targeting the creature but it does no damage? I understand the damage is factored by my creatures strength.. but the damage is caused by the spell, no?

IMAGE(http://i46.tinypic.com/2b5wr5.jpg)

The spell is causing the creature to deal damage.
How do I give the sealed decks a name on PSN?
It might not help, but on Steam, you click on the deck in the topright corner in the deckmanager.
 
Are multiple first-strike blockers supposed to all deal their damage first at the beginning of trading blows? I had assumed you would go by a creature to creature basis.

Say you have a 3/3 attacker, and 3 1/1 first strike defenders that block it, right now the 3 1/1s will all stay alive and the 3/3 will die.

I would've rather assumed this:
A(3/3) vs B1(1/1) -> 1 damage to A, then 1 damage to B1 killing it
A(2/2) vs B2(1/1) -> 1 damage to A, then 1 damage to B2 killing it
A(1/1) vs B3(1/1) -> 1 damage to A, A dies, B3 survives

I don't think the situation ever came up in 2013, so i'm not sure about it, but i find it strange. It also makes the slivers somewhat insane.
Are multiple first-strike blockers supposed to all deal their damage first at the beginning of trading blows? I had assumed you would go by a creature to creature basis.

Say you have a 3/3 attacker, and 3 1/1 first strike defenders that block it, right now the 3 1/1s will all stay alive and the 3/3 will die.

I would've rather assumed this:
A(3/3) vs B1(1/1) -> 1 damage to A, then 1 damage to B1 killing it
A(2/2) vs B2(1/1) -> 1 damage to A, then 1 damage to B2 killing it
A(1/1) vs B3(1/1) -> 1 damage to A, A dies, B3 survives

I don't think the situation ever came up in 2013, so i'm not sure about it, but i find it strange. It also makes the slivers somewhat insane.



All creatures that would deal damage during any given Combat Damage step deal their damage simultaneously.

Creatures with First Strike and Double Strike deal combat damage during the First Strike Combat Damage step.
Creatures without First Strike and creatures with both First Strike and Double Strike deal combat damage during the normal Combat Damage step.

If a 3/3 without First Strike or Double Strike is blocked by three 1/1s with First Strike, it will be dealt 3 damage during the First Strike Combat Damage step, and die as a result of lethal damage.
Posted this in Bugs thread as well but never got a response:

From an Xbox 2HG Multiplayer game:

Turn Three:
My teammate (Avacyn's Glory) put out Thalia, Guardian of Thraben . I (Chant of Mul Daya) then played my third land. 

Turn Four:
I played Grazing Gladehart first, tapping all my current land. I then tried to play a fourth land from my hand to benefit from his landfall ability, having not yet played a land on this turn but I was unable to put my land into play. It said I needed (1) untapped land to play my land.

Now, lands can't be countered, they arent considered spells are they? It did not use an extra (1) to put out a land the turn before, but I could not play a land without an untapped land available. Is this correct gameplay?  
No, lands are not spells. Yes, this is a known, confirmed bug with Thalia.
Will there be a patch or something? I haven't bought the game yet but after reading that with Thalia and Fiend Hunter being broken I seriously don't think I'll be buying it this year
Traditionally, there has been one bug fix patch that came along shortly before the expansion.
Traditionally, there has been one bug fix patch that came along shortly before the expansion.



As MS has dropped the patch fees, hopefully we'll really get some fixes this year.
I was up against a 9/9 Nightmare (tapped) and a 3/2 Geralf's Messenger.  All I had was a 2/1 Gravecrawler and Grave Pact.   My plan was to attack and sucker the Messenger into killing my Gravecrawler - therefor causing the Nightmare to be sacrificed...   The messenger did block and died with my Gravecrawler, but it returned to the battlefield BEFORE he had to sacrifice a creature, and it was sacrificed instead of Nightmare. Is this right? Because I felt like the game smacked me in the face. 
XBLA: DriftTheoryDuB XBLA: drifttheoryDNB
I was up against a 9/9 Nightmare (tapped) and a 3/2 Geralf's Messenger.  All I had was a 2/1 Gravecrawler and Grave Pact.   My plan was to attack and sucker the Messenger into killing my Gravecrawler - therefor causing the Nightmare to be sacrificed...   The messenger did block and died with my Gravecrawler, but it returned to the battlefield BEFORE he had to sacrifice a creature, and it was sacrificed instead of Nightmare. Is this right? Because I felt like the game smacked me in the face. 


This behavior is correct. When multiple abilities are triggered simultaneously, they are put on the stack in APNAP order (active player, non-active player). Since you are the active player, your Grave Pact's ability goes on the stack first, then the Messenger's ability is put on the stack on top of it. The Messenger's ability then resolves first.

IMAGE(http://steamsignature.com/status/default/76561197995631463.png) No longer a commander as of 7/29/13.

I was up against a 9/9 Nightmare (tapped) and a 3/2 Geralf's Messenger.  All I had was a 2/1 Gravecrawler and Grave Pact.   My plan was to attack and sucker the Messenger into killing my Gravecrawler - therefor causing the Nightmare to be sacrificed...   The messenger did block and died with my Gravecrawler, but it returned to the battlefield BEFORE he had to sacrifice a creature, and it was sacrificed instead of Nightmare. Is this right? Because I felt like the game smacked me in the face. 



Not a rules guru but I think the messenger never goes to the graveyard so there was never a moment when they only had control of Nightmare
I was up against a 9/9 Nightmare (tapped) and a 3/2 Geralf's Messenger.  All I had was a 2/1 Gravecrawler and Grave Pact.   My plan was to attack and sucker the Messenger into killing my Gravecrawler - therefor causing the Nightmare to be sacrificed...   The messenger did block and died with my Gravecrawler, but it returned to the battlefield BEFORE he had to sacrifice a creature, and it was sacrificed instead of Nightmare. Is this right? Because I felt like the game smacked me in the face. 


This behavior is correct. When multiple abilities are triggered simultaneously, they are put on the stack in APNAP order (active player, non-active player). Since you are the active player, your Grave Pact's ability goes on the stack first, then the Messenger's ability is put on the stack on top of it. The Messenger's ability then resolves first.

Thank you for such an awesome explination! Now i need to work on my NAP dirty tactics. Laughing
XBLA: DriftTheoryDuB XBLA: drifttheoryDNB


Not a rules guru but I think the messenger never goes to the graveyard so there was never a moment when they only had control of Nightmare


It does go to the graveyard before Undying kicks in. Then on its return to the battlefield it does 2 dam to a player. Thats what threw me off.
XBLA: DriftTheoryDuB XBLA: drifttheoryDNB
I was playing with the Chandra deck versus the Sigismund deck. Opponent had a couple of weak humans and the 5/3 Angelic Overseer which was indestructable. I casted a Flamebreak, killing all of the humans, but the Angel did survive, which is incorrect. The Angel still has the 3 damage on it, but doesnt see a human anymore and should die.
I was playing with the Chandra deck versus the Sigismund deck. Opponent had a couple of weak humans and the 5/3 Angelic Overseer which was indestructable. I casted a Flamebreak, killing all of the humans, but the Angel did survive, which is incorrect. The Angel still has the 3 damage on it, but doesnt see a human anymore and should die.


You're correct about everything except that Flamebreak doesn't deal damage to creatures with flying. (:

IMAGE(http://steamsignature.com/status/default/76561197995631463.png) No longer a commander as of 7/29/13.

I was playing with the Chandra deck versus the Sigismund deck. Opponent had a couple of weak humans and the 5/3 Angelic Overseer which was indestructable. I casted a Flamebreak, killing all of the humans, but the Angel did survive, which is incorrect. The Angel still has the 3 damage on it, but doesnt see a human anymore and should die.


You're correct about everything except that Flamebreak doesn't deal damage to creatures with flying. (:


true story.
My Phantasmal Dragon (illusion) was targeted by a Last Grasp. I used cancel on the spell but my illusion still died. Is that suppoed to happen? Does targeting still occur even when countered?
My Phantasmal Dragon (illusion) was targeted by a Last Grasp. I used cancel on the spell but my illusion still died. Is that suppoed to happen? Does targeting still occur even when countered?


Yes, that is working correctly. Even if the spell doesn't resolve it is still able to target, which is enough to kill the Dragon.

"People are like sausages: it's what's under the skin that's important... so poke them with a fork periodically."

"Lif is too short."

My Phantasmal Dragon (illusion) was targeted by a Last Grasp. I used cancel on the spell but my illusion still died. Is that suppoed to happen? Does targeting still occur even when countered?


The illusion's sacrifice ability is triggered as soon as it becomes targeted. When the ability resolves, it doesn't check if it's still being targeted. It just gets sacrificed.

IMAGE(http://steamsignature.com/status/default/76561197995631463.png) No longer a commander as of 7/29/13.

Should you be able to clone Hexproof units?
Yup. Clone doesn't target.
i was playing with the eldrazi deck and i had "one that bretarys" on the field and used "all is dust" they had "Avacyn, Angel of Hope" and theu had to sac it alone with a the rest of thier stuff.

and i got it like i was supposed to.

then the next turn they played Fiend Hunter

to exile the angel
when it was my turn again they sacrificed the feind hunter and the "Avacyn, Angel of Hope" came back.. but it came back on THIER side not mine even though i had control of it last.

is this supposed to happen?

edit: how do i make the card names "hover over" images of them?
i was playing with the eldrazi deck and i had "one that bretarys" on the field and used "all is dust" they had "Avacyn, Angel of Hope" and theu had to sac it alone with a the rest of thier stuff.

and i got it like i was supposed to.

then the next turn they played Fiend Hunter

to exile the angel
when it was my turn again they sacrificed the feind hunter and the "Avacyn, Angel of Hope" came back.. but it came back on THIER side not mine even though i had control of it last.

is this supposed to happen?

edit: how do i make the card names "hover over" images of them?



To autocard, type [c]Card Name[/c].

Fiend Hunter returns the exiled creature to the battlefield under its owner's control, not the control of whoever most recently controlled it.
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