[M14-ICD] Millstone

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Millstone
Artifact (R)
, : Target player puts the top two cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard.

Rarity unconfirmed, but it probably should be Rare.
 
Thanks to MTGSalvation for this information.

Discuss.

GW

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if it's uncommon, just pick these and some walls and mill your way to limited success
I really hope this isn't rare. Not something I want to open as a rare ever. I really don't get why they couldn't just reprint Sands of Delirium instead.

"This list much made Niche barf a lil' in his mouth, so I can be proud of that." -rstnme

is Mill still not keyworded?
proud member of the 2011 community team
is Mill still not keyworded?


It's because there are different types of milling. Would make keywording it a problem. 
is Mill still not keyworded?


It's because there are different types of milling. Would make keywording it a problem. 



Not really.

MTG Rules Advisor
 

is Mill still not keyworded?


It's because there are different types of milling. Would make keywording it a problem. 



Not really.


We have milling and grinding. Should we keyword both? 

Not everything in the game needs keywords. We don't need a whole bunch of lingo to make it difficult for new players to get started. We already have enough to make it confusing. 
is Mill still not keyworded?


It's because there are different types of milling. Would make keywording it a problem. 



Not really.


We have milling and grinding. Should we keyword both? 

Not everything in the game needs keywords. We don't need a whole bunch of lingo to make it difficult for new players to get started. We already have enough to make it confusing. 



Since the verb "mill" means "to grind," "mill" would still fit. And no, we shouldn't keyword both--"mill" should, in my opinion (and that of others), be the keyword for "card(s) from top of library to graveyard."

You're right, not everything needs keywords, which is why no one has said we need mill to be keyworded. But it'd be kinda nice to see, since it is an effect that actually crops up a good bit. Reprinting Millstone was the perfect place to do it too, since that's the card that caused the term "mill" to be associated with the effect.

You're right, also, that we don't need extra lingo for people to learn--however, the term "mill" is so embedded within the game that players end up having to learn what it means anyway, just because of the abundant use of it as a non-formal term. Might as well make it formal at that point.

MTG Rules Advisor
 

is Mill still not keyworded?


It's because there are different types of milling. Would make keywording it a problem. 



Not really.


We have milling and grinding. Should we keyword both? 

Not everything in the game needs keywords. We don't need a whole bunch of lingo to make it difficult for new players to get started. We already have enough to make it confusing. 


If you're using grind to refer to "mill until you hit a land", there are exactly 2 cards that use it that aren't from RTR block (Trepanation Blade and Mind Funeral). And even then, there's only 9 total. There are 90 cards that use conventional milling, and it shows up in every set. I think that's a strong reason to keyword one and not the other.
One of the reasons not to call milling "milling" is because of the flavor disconnect.

The answer to that problem is to print Millstone in the Core set.

Now it looks like they are doing that, but still wont call it milling.

They still maintain that not everyone calls it "milling", but really everyone knows that everyone does.

Sadtimes.

~ Tim       
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
This was my favorite card....in the 90's. Now a days I don't even consider this rare worthy. Magic is a helluva drug.
"You wouldn't like me when I'm angry. I always back up my arguements with facts and documented sources." - The Credible Hulk
I wish this were Sands of Delirium instead.

L1 Judge

but... you guys.... the synergy with Ral Zarek can't be overlooked! I mean, finally you can use Millstone twice in one turn. It's every Magic player's dream!


FINALLY THEY GOT IT RIGHT, MY LIFE IS COMPLETE

EDH decks I play:

 

Prossh: http://community.wizards.com/forum/commander-edh/threads/4101381

 

Derevi: http://community.wizards.com/forum/commander-edh/threads/4115936

 

Kaalia (the beats)

 

Zur (disgusting combo)

 

Damia (Bug Elf deck)

 

Numot (Stax)

 

Griselbrand (French)

 

Ghave (Uber combo)

 

Muzzio (Oops, Blightsteel)

One of the reasons not to call milling "milling" is because of the flavor disconnect.

The answer to that problem is to print Millstone in the Core set.

Now it looks like they are doing that, but still wont call it milling.

They still maintain that not everyone calls it "milling", but really everyone knows that everyone does.

Sadtimes.

~ Tim       




This.
and I like getting cards from my deck
is Mill still not keyworded?


We have enough threads about that. We don't need to discuss it more.
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You should never explain layers to people unless one of the following is true: they're studying for a judge exam, you're both in a Ben Affleck movie and it's the only way to save the world, or you hate them.
56663526 wrote:
We try to maintain the illusion that Magic cards are written in English.
56333196 wrote:
69511863 wrote:
Hell, if they steal from us, we'd be honored.
oh my god, AWESOME! Then changing the Slivers was your idea! haha lol
56734518 wrote:
Occassionally when catering, I've been put the task of arranging Fruit and Cheese or Grilled Vegetable platters. More than once a high class buffet has started with the mark of Phyrexia upon it. Since i've got a good eye for color so it looks great to people who don't get the "joke" (it's a niceley divided circle after all: the outline gives you 4-6 "regions" to work with), this has actually got me put on platter design more often, resulting in Phyrexia's presence at more private and industry events.
I have 6917 Planeswalker points, that's probably more than you. [c=Hero's Resolve]"Destiny, chance, fate, fortune, mana screw; they're all just ways of claiming your successes without claiming your failures." Gerrard of the Weatherlight[/c]
is Mill still not keyworded?


We have enough threads about that. We don't need to discuss it more.



YOu're welcome to ignore the thread if you don't want to see it discussed.

MTG Rules Advisor
 

i called it milling before i even played M:TG, back in my yugioh days. why DONT they keyword it?

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg)

Flavor disconnect is probably the biggest reason. Mill as a term has no flavor significance...its just a callback to an old card. It'd be kind of like keywording "the ophidian ability". No flavor relevance, too many mechanical variations of said ability that couldn't be reasonably errataed, and not common enough that writing the entire text is problematic enough to be worth the headache.
I'm kind of happy to see it back.  Hoping it's an uncommon though.
Flavor disconnect is probably the biggest reason. Mill as a term has no flavor significance...its just a callback to an old card. It'd be kind of like keywording "the ophidian ability". No flavor relevance, too many mechanical variations of said ability that couldn't be reasonably errataed, and not common enough that writing the entire text is problematic enough to be worth the headache.



I always pictured the deck being slowly ground down by the millstone

Keywording mill seems kind-of dumb.  Woud you keyword "cantrip" to mean "draw a card"?

This isn't like trample or regenerate or protection, which are intuitive abilities but actually fairly complex to describe what they do.  This isn't like flying, which gets referenced on tons of cards.  This isn't like Lifelink and Deathtouch, which were actually funcitonally changed when keyworded.  It's...well...kind-of like keywording Fear, which you'll notice isn't even a keyword anymore.  Replaced by Intimidate, granted, but it feels a little odd to me that intimidate is a keyword and "unblockable" is not.

Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision.

'draw a card" is short enough to not need a keyword
cantrip as a concept has some merit

intimidate was used to spread fear to other colors
Keywording mill seems kind-of dumb.  Woud you keyword "cantrip" to mean "draw a card"?

This isn't like trample or regenerate or protection, which are intuitive abilities but actually fairly complex to describe what they do.  This isn't like flying, which gets referenced on tons of cards.  This isn't like Lifelink and Deathtouch, which were actually funcitonally changed when keyworded.  It's...well...kind-of like keywording Fear, which you'll notice isn't even a keyword anymore.  Replaced by Intimidate, granted, but it feels a little odd to me that intimidate is a keyword and "unblockable" is not.



If cantrip were to become an official term, I'd have it replace 'Instant' because that word is a large reason in the 'speed' mindset that people have about cards being 'faster.'

'Mill' gets referenced on a lot of cards, as well, so saying it doesn't is just wrong. There's been mill in almost every single set, even if it's only one or two cards. It's not as abundant as flying, but it's abundant.

Lifelink and Deathtouch were not functionally changed when first keyworded. Lifelink represented the same triggered ability that older cards now have spelled out, and they got the keyword too. The functional change came in m10 (and then those old cards went back to triggers), far after the keyword was introduced. Deathtouch didn't actually exist in its exact form before the keyword, I don't believe--there were a lot of abilities a lot like it, but none that were exactly it. Or very very very few, if any. And assuming there was even a single card that had the triggered ability spelled out beforehand, that still wasn't a fucntional change when keyworded. Its functional change also at M10, but long after the keyword was introduced. Keywording something does not require a functional change.

Fear is still a keyword, even if they don't actually print it on cards any more. Older cards with Fear still have Fear.

I'm also tired of "mill isn't intuitive" as an argument. It takes no more explanation than Vigilance to know what it does, and is, in some ways, intuitive and flavorful. It's also used by the vast majority of Magic players, and even players in other games who might not have yet played Magic. It's so widely used by everyone that it might as well be made official because newer players are gonna end up learning what it means either way.

Now, I'm not saying I'm some crusader for absolutely getting it keyworded, but I have yet to see a good argument for not doing so. The closest one to being good is that it's not printed as often as other keywords, but at this point it's been printed so often that even that argument is losing ground. Currently the best reason for them not keywording it is "they don't want to." And that is an acceptable reason, because it is their game. Any other argument has no leg on which to stand at this point.

MTG Rules Advisor
 

the great convenience to using mill as a keyword
is the cards don't have to write
"put the top card of the deck into the graveyad" v "mill"

this cleans up space for other abilities and flavor text on the card.

The same goes for "the battlefield" v "play"
This topic has come up on Mark's blog numerous times. The biggest issue is there isn't a good word to describe it. Just because "mill" is in the common vernacular doesn't mean the verb adequately describes the act of putting cards from a library into a graveyard. It's only called mill because of this card. It's arbitrary. Keywords are intended to actually describe the thing they represent.
dump

milling is not a common (if at all) move played in other card games so their is no pre-esisting term

overturn erode

thesaurus.com/browse/erode

tumble
floor

sink (dang, I was using that for bottom decking)


battlefield should describe the state of being in combat which is a common condition that cards specify
This topic has come up on Mark's blog numerous times. The biggest issue is there isn't a good word to describe it. Just because "mill" is in the common vernacular doesn't mean the verb adequately describes the act of putting cards from a library into a graveyard. It's only called mill because of this card. It's arbitrary. Keywords are intended to actually describe the thing they represent.


And yet we use the purely mechanical terms draw, discard, shuffle, tap, hand, and mulligan. Not everything needs a flavorful term.
They still maintain that not everyone calls it "milling", but really everyone knows that everyone does.

it's even called milling outside of Magic, where it makes absolutely no sense

proud member of the 2011 community team
This topic has come up on Mark's blog numerous times. The biggest issue is there isn't a good word to describe it. Just because "mill" is in the common vernacular doesn't mean the verb adequately describes the act of putting cards from a library into a graveyard. It's only called mill because of this card. It's arbitrary. Keywords are intended to actually describe the thing they represent.


And yet we use the purely mechanical terms draw, discard, shuffle, tap, hand, and mulligan. Not everything needs a flavorful term.


Tap is the only one of those that's genre specific.

The others are all terms that actually *mean* the action you're taking.
Tap is the only one of those that's genre specific.


Tap actually makes flavor sense, so I dont think it counts anyway.

~ Tim   

I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
This topic has come up on Mark's blog numerous times. The biggest issue is there isn't a good word to describe it. Just because "mill" is in the common vernacular doesn't mean the verb adequately describes the act of putting cards from a library into a graveyard. It's only called mill because of this card. It's arbitrary. Keywords are intended to actually describe the thing they represent.


And yet we use the purely mechanical terms draw, discard, shuffle, tap, hand, and mulligan. Not everything needs a flavorful term.


Tap is the only one of those that's genre specific.

The others are all terms that actually *mean* the action you're taking.



Except that in Magic, 'discard' only means from the hand. In other games, it means from anywhere.

MTG Rules Advisor
 

This topic has come up on Mark's blog numerous times. The biggest issue is there isn't a good word to describe it. Just because "mill" is in the common vernacular doesn't mean the verb adequately describes the act of putting cards from a library into a graveyard. It's only called mill because of this card. It's arbitrary. Keywords are intended to actually describe the thing they represent.


And yet we use the purely mechanical terms draw, discard, shuffle, tap, hand, and mulligan. Not everything needs a flavorful term.


Tap is the only one of those that's genre specific.

The others are all terms that actually *mean* the action you're taking.



Except that in Magic, 'discard' only means from the hand. In other games, it means from anywhere.



Oh man, starting with Magic (Well technically pokemans, but went to MAgic soon after) and seeing other games use "discard this card" to mean "sacrifice this" .

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.
This card is one in a MILLion.

I would also hate to see this at rare. Codex shredder was bad enough and at least it brought something back.
Mechanical terms != keywords. Please be aware of what the specific terms mean before trying to refute things.
tabakrules.tumblr.com/post/54042551942/s...

Question: So, since indestructible became a keyword by way of being believed to be a keyword, is "mill" next? - miloapplebloom



  • Answer:

    No, “mill" has already been thoroughly rejected by every single person at WotC that can reject it. It’s a terrible game term. You’ll also notice that Millstone hasn’t been printed since Tenth Edition.







Note that this doesnt mean it isnt being reprinted in M14, as Matt likes to get tricksy with his replies (cross ref: Legend rule change).

~ Tim 
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
This topic has come up on Mark's blog numerous times. The biggest issue is there isn't a good word to describe it. Just because "mill" is in the common vernacular doesn't mean the verb adequately describes the act of putting cards from a library into a graveyard. It's only called mill because of this card. It's arbitrary. Keywords are intended to actually describe the thing they represent.


And yet we use the purely mechanical terms draw, discard, shuffle, tap, hand, and mulligan. Not everything needs a flavorful term.


Tap is the only one of those that's genre specific.

The others are all terms that actually *mean* the action you're taking.



Except that in Magic, 'discard' only means from the hand. In other games, it means from anywhere.



triggered event cards only recognize discard from the hand

This topic has come up on Mark's blog numerous times. The biggest issue is there isn't a good word to describe it. Just because "mill" is in the common vernacular doesn't mean the verb adequately describes the act of putting cards from a library into a graveyard. It's only called mill because of this card. It's arbitrary. Keywords are intended to actually describe the thing they represent.


And yet we use the purely mechanical terms draw, discard, shuffle, tap, hand, and mulligan. Not everything needs a flavorful term.


Tap is the only one of those that's genre specific.

The others are all terms that actually *mean* the action you're taking.



Except that in Magic, 'discard' only means from the hand. In other games, it means from anywhere.



triggered event cards only recognize discard from the hand




Your point being...?

MTG Rules Advisor
 

tabakrules.tumblr.com/post/54042551942/s...

Question: So, since indestructible became a keyword by way of being believed to be a keyword, is "mill" next? - miloapplebloom



  • Answer:

    No, “mill" has already been thoroughly rejected by every single person at WotC that can reject it. It’s a terrible game term. You’ll also notice that Millstone hasn’t been printed since Tenth Edition.







Note that this doesnt mean it isnt being reprinted in M14, as Matt likes to get tricksy with his replies (cross ref: Legend rule change).

~ Tim 




Yay I got noticed!

Yeah, pretty dismissive answer. I know they've got their fancy pants metrics and consumer surveys but the fact is it has become a part of the vernacular, whether they like it or not. It's starting to take on the feeling of one of those things that might not have had a problem with at first, but the more the community started making noise about it and now WOTC is digging their heels in at this point just to be contrary. Don't many of their employees come from the community anymore? How can he say "every single person" at WOTC has rejected it? 

The flavor does make sense - milling requires grinding down, this grinds down a library. It's certainly a hell of a lot better than "hexproof". 


They still maintain that not everyone calls it "milling", but really everyone knows that everyone does.

it's even called milling outside of Magic, where it makes absolutely no sense




Out of curiousity, what games do that? 



Proud member of C.A.R.D. - Campaign Against Rare Duals "...but the time has come when lands just need to be better. Creatures have gotten stronger, spells have always been insane, and lands just sat in this awkward place of necessity." Jacob Van Lunen on the refuge duals, 16 Sep 2009. "While it made thematic sense to separate enemy and allied color fixing in the past, we have come around to the definite conclusion that it is just plain incorrect from a game-play perspective. This is one of these situations where game play should just trump flavor." - Sam Stoddard on ending the separation of allied/enemy dual lands. 05 July 2013
tabakrules.tumblr.com/post/54042551942/s...

Question: So, since indestructible became a keyword by way of being believed to be a keyword, is "mill" next? - miloapplebloom



  • Answer:

    No, “mill" has already been thoroughly rejected by every single person at WotC that can reject it. It’s a terrible game term. You’ll also notice that Millstone hasn’t been printed since Tenth Edition.







Note that this doesnt mean it isnt being reprinted in M14, as Matt likes to get tricksy with his replies (cross ref: Legend rule change).

~ Tim 




Yay I got noticed!

Yeah, pretty dismissive answer. I know they've got their fancy pants metrics and consumer surveys but the fact is it has become a part of the vernacular, whether they like it or not. It's starting to take on the feeling of one of those things that might not have had a problem with at first, but the more the community started making noise about it and now WOTC is digging their heels in at this point just to be contrary. Don't many of their employees come from the community anymore? How can he say "every single person" at WOTC has rejected it? 

The flavor does make sense - milling requires grinding down, this grinds down a library. It's certainly a hell of a lot better than "hexproof". 


They still maintain that not everyone calls it "milling", but really everyone knows that everyone does.

it's even called milling outside of Magic, where it makes absolutely no sense




Out of curiousity, what games do that? 






Yu-Gi-Oh!, for one. I played that before Magic and I heard the term there first.

MTG Rules Advisor
 

on the one hand, I think it should be keyworded because there are (usually) at least one or two cards in a set that make you "mill". But discard is a thing and it's not a keyword. Both these actions have too many variations on a theme to be keyworded. I mean, for discard it could be random discard or they get to choose. Most "mill spells" are restricted to sorcery speed but there are also cards like Thought Scour that let you mill at instant speed. The card might go to the yard or it might get exiled. You couldn't use a keyword for either because the action isn't the same in every instance (like Flying or First Strike).

EDH decks I play:

 

Prossh: http://community.wizards.com/forum/commander-edh/threads/4101381

 

Derevi: http://community.wizards.com/forum/commander-edh/threads/4115936

 

Kaalia (the beats)

 

Zur (disgusting combo)

 

Damia (Bug Elf deck)

 

Numot (Stax)

 

Griselbrand (French)

 

Ghave (Uber combo)

 

Muzzio (Oops, Blightsteel)

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