Entropic Reaper unkillable?

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Hello all,

Last night I had my party fight an Entropic Reaper from the Open Grave suppliment.  The auto hit\daze burst was very frustrating for the party as there was little they could do other than spread out, but the real problem I found was the creatures regeneration 10 combined with Shift into Nothing, which causes the creature to disappear, negating line of sight and effect to it and then reappear at the start of its next turn.  

Doesn't this make the creature unkillable unless you killed it in one round?  Couldn't he just keep using Shift Into Nothing until he regerated fully, then attack, rinse and repeat.

I just played it so if it used Shift into Nothing it didn't regenerate, but this seems like a fatal flaw to me, unless I am missing something
I don't know the creature off--hand, but do check whether powers that seem broken are encounter or recharge in usage.  If it can;t use it every round, then it becomes a lot less of a problem.

Also, it probably can't use it if, for instance, it's dazed or stunned...
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Its just a Standard Action at-will power, no limitation
Could you post the text of the power so we can see what's what?

Bear in mind that if it's using a standard-action power to not attack, it's not doing much to the PCs in that time.

Also bear in mind that the PCs can ready to attack it when it's visible during its turn.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.

Shift Into Nothing (standard; at-will)
The entropic reaper disappears, negating line of sight and line
of effect to it for all creatures. At the start of its next turn, it
returns to a square within 5 squares of the square it occupied
when it last used shift into nothing.

The issue is, it can disappear then on its next turn appear in a safe spot, regen 10, then disappear again, then repeat this until it is at full health.  So it can get full health, do a bunch of damage to the party, when it gets bloodied, do this to get full health, then do a bunch of damage to the party, etc.  Eventually, the party will run out of heals and powers and it can whittle them away without any risk of death. 

The party stuns it.  It dies.  The party readies.  It dies.  The party dazes it, it chooses whether to disappear or attack.  If the party as a whole can't kill it in one round of focus fire with their strongest attacks, it's too tough for them and they run away.

If the whole goal of the combat is for the party to kill it or it to kill them, something's gone wrong anyway; it's far, far more interesting if each side has a goal other than BLOOOD!
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Here's the powers in question (didn't post entire stat block to avoid running afoul of posting too much published content):
Entropic Reaper (redacted)


Entropic Reaper

Regeneration 10 (if an entropic reaper takes radiant damage, regeneration doesn’t function until the end of its next turn)
AC 31; Fortitude 29, Reflex 29, Will 27
Immune disease, poison; Resist 10 necrotic; Vulnerable 5 radiant
Speed 6


Umbral Scythe (standard, at-will) Necrotic, Weapon


Entropic Assault (standard; requires scythe, at-will) Necrotic, Psychic, Weapon


close burst 2; +18 vs ; 2d8+6 damage.. 4d4 + 5 necrotic damage, the target is dazed (save ends). First Failed Saving Throw: The target is instead stunned (save ends). Second Failed Saving Throw: The target takes ongoing 10 psychic damage and is stunned (save ends both).


Eye of Impending Doom (minor 1/round, at-will) Fear, Gaze, Psychic


Shift Into Nothing (standard; at-will)


The entropic reaper disappears, negating line of sight and line of effect to it for all creatures. At the start of its next turn, it returns to a square within 5 squares of the square it occupied when it last used shift into nothing.




So a couple of things:


1) The burst with daze isn't an auto hit, but it is missing the defense its supposed to be targeting in the compendium stat block (there are a lot that do that, unfortunately).  It's probably supposed to be vs either Will or Fortitude (based on it having the Psychic and Necrotic keywords as well as being a Weapon attack)


2) If the party doesn't have any at-will source of Radiant damage, it can be a bit harder to kill, but it only has regen 10. At the same time, the only attack it can use while doing Shift into Nothing is its Eye of Impending Doom power which only does 10 damage if that target attacks the reaper, which is a damage rate the party can easily keep up with in terms of healing.


    It can only move 5 squares when returning from Shift into Nothing, and it can't fly, so every time it vanishes the party should ready to attack it as soon as it reappears. Melee combatants can move next to where it was and then ready a charge - it will always be within range when it reappears.  The one draw back if you are currently dazed,  is that while you can still ready an action, you can't actually use it if you fail the saving throw against being dazed (since using the readied action is an immediate action)


  Even without being able to do radiant damage, the party should be able to do damage much more quickly than it can regen as long as they can hit its defenses, which aren't terribly high.  For example, a striker of that level should probably be doing at least 25-30 damage even on a melee or ranged basic attack.  Then the reaper has to choose between attacking or using Shift into Nothing again.


  Since the entire party used readied actions, they now act again immediately before it would reappear on the next round, and can ready actions again. 


  The biggest problem would be if a lot of people fail their saving throws against the dazed effect and become stunned.  By this point, there should be at least one party member with the ability to grant saving throws at least a few times a fight.  It also helps if someone has the Superior Will feat, which I recommend for just about any class and especially strikers, as it gives you a free saving throw as the start of your turn against any dazing or stunning effect. Failing that save does not trigger failed saving throw effects and you still get another saving throw at the end of your turn.





There is something wrong with the compendium version of the monster (no defense listed and 2 damages listed)  The original version in the book has it auto hit, as does the Adventure Tools version.

The readied action approach is not something I considered.  It didn't come up really, as I played it more along the lines of the tactics outlined in the book (disappear, reappear and do the daze attack, repeat) so there was a bit of dazed\stun going on, plus it had allies.  The battle wasn't particularly difficult for the party, just long.

 
That's likely a compendium error (it's full of them).  There are some monsters that are have errors like that in both the original source (especially out of Dungeon) and in the compendium, and my actually have different errors in each place.  It looks like it was also printed in the book Underdark, so I wonder if part of that data is coming from there.  Unfortunately I don't have either book to refer to directly.

Looking at the Errata for Open Grave, there is no mention of a change for Entropic Reaper, so the text in book is likely correct (or at least hasn't been officially changed) that is it an auto-hit attack, which is pretty brutal considering it dazes, has a worsening effect and is a burst (not a blast).
  I didn't even notice the 2nd damage until you mentioned; it looks like the damage from Umbral Scythe also got pasted into Entropic Assault in the compendium entry.

    I think the main tactics for it would be take out its allies (especially if they are soldiers/brutes) and if you can't daze, dominate or stun the reaper, then readied actions are the best counter to its disapparing trick.
Entropic Assault is not missing a defense, it has no attack roll;

Entropic Assault (standard; at-will) ✦ Necrotic, Psychic, Weapon 
Requires scythe; close burst 2; 4d4 + 5 necrotic damage, the
target is dazed (save ends). First Failed Saving Throw: The target
is instead stunned (save ends). Second Failed Saving Throw: The
target takes ongoing 10 psychic damage and is stunned (save
ends both).



Here's the Entropic Assault Tactics if desired;

Entropic Reaper Tactics
An entropic reaper fades in and out of view using shift
into nothing as it approaches its foes. The creature use
that power to position itself among multiple enemies,
where it can best utilize entropic assault and eye of
impending doom. After a turn in which the entropic
reaper attacks, the creature retreats using shift into
nothing. If greatly threatened, an entropic reaper
attacks and then spends an action point to immediately
use shift into nothing.



@Plaguescarred  Depends on which source you were looking at.  Open Grave appears to be correct in that there is no attack roll.  The Compendium has an attack roll with no defense listed, and two different damages listed (which is a good example of why the Compedium is not a rules source)
Compendium entry:

Entropic Assault (standard; requires scythe, at-will) Necrotic, Psychic, Weapon


close burst 2; +18 vs ; 2d8+6 damage.. 4d4 + 5 necrotic damage, the target is dazed (save ends). First Failed Saving Throw: The target is instead stunned (save ends). Second Failed Saving Throw: The target takes ongoing 10 psychic damage and is stunned (save ends both).
lol so silly.
"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"

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@Plaguescarred  Depends on which source you were looking at.

Hence the Compendium error. While you may look at different places, you are supposed to look at the same source material the monster statblock says;  ;)

Published in Open Grave, page(s) 178, Underdark, page(s) 133.

I don't think that the two damage types are an error. It also has both keywords, and this isn't the only case where the ongoing or subsequent effect has a different damage type than the initial attack.
I don't think that the two damage types are an error. It also has both keywords, and this isn't the only case where the ongoing or subsequent effect has a different damage type than the initial attack.

Its not an issue with having two damage type keywords.  The Online Compedium incorrectly lists an attack roll vs no defense and two different damage rolls.

 The actual power has no attack roll (auto-hits) and a single attack roll. 

Basically the online compendium is in some places a complete mess, which is annoying when you don't have easy access to the source book in question.
  In the case of the damage rolls, "2d8+6" and "4d4+5" are equivalent damage expressions. Since "2d8+6" is the standard expression, and the scythe MBA uses 4d4+5 (scythes are based on d4s) and deals necrotic damage, with the power thematically involving a scythe sweep, it seems almost certain that the "2d8+6" is the extraneous bit.

  The attack would probably be vs Will since that seems to be the creature's theme, although I don't see why you couldn't use Fort, as long as you stick to one or the other consistently. (It's definitely an NAD attack, though.)


  In the case of the damage rolls, "2d8+6" and "4d4+5" are equivalent damage expressions. Since "2d8+6" is the standard expression, and the scythe MBA uses 4d4+5 (scythes are based on d4s) and deals necrotic damage, with the power thematically involving a scythe sweep, it seems almost certain that the "2d8+6" is the extraneous bit.

  The attack would probably be vs Will since that seems to be the creature's theme, although I don't see why you couldn't use Fort, as long as you stick to one or the other consistently. (It's definitely an NAD attack, though.)



In the actual source book, its an auto-hit attack (no attack roll or defence) and there has been no errata published to give it an attack roll.
So basically you are spamming the immortal thing whenever it takes any damage until its back to full HP?

Ready Action would counter this with "As soon as he is out hit him!"

But also as a good DM its either your job to tell players they can ready an action. If no one thought about this, not even you, then its your job as a DM to not be a d... 
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