Looking for an item bonus to damage

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So I have a storm sorcerer and I'm looking to add myself an item bonus to damage.

Buck Wild is in the mid-heroic tier.  He uses a lightning dagger for damage conversion, Mark of Storm + Flame Spiral + Lancing cheese.  He also does some charge-package stuff with a vanguard weapon on occasion as well.

So what I'm looking for is  a way to gain an item bonus to my damage rolls.  I'd like it to apply to both implement and weapon attacks, so I've discarded things like the otherwise awesome Iron Armbands, though they still tempt me due to Ensorcelled Blade working so well with them.  Because I'm either converting damage to lightning with a dagger or using a vanguard weapon in Buck's off-hand for charging I'm also looking to avoid a weapon/implement for the item bonus, so (and at this I weep, no Goblin Totem daggers, seriously, they are so awesome I am despondent I can't use one, but lancing + damage conversion is too good to give up)

The only thing I've been able to come up with is to get an Echo of Ty'h'Kadi.  But the Echo is only a +1/+2/+3 item bonus, which compares very poorly to things like the goblin totem, and it's very high level for it's tier.

Can anyone suggest a better option for me to use to gain an item damage bonus to my damage rolls?

-abs 
Ioun stones? There's one for each stat and it go in the head slot. Highest those go is +5. Since you're a sorc, can get +5 item bonus to charisma based powers. Offhand I don't know what handbook those came from.
Ioun stones? There's one for each stat and it go in the head slot. Highest those go is +5. Since you're a sorc, can get +5 item bonus to charisma based powers. Offhand I don't know what handbook those came from.



The Ioun stones are from Mordenkainen's Magnificent Emporium, but they are level 25 rares. Not much use in mid-Heroic.
Staff of Ruin is the go-to item bonus I believe. Charge op on a sorcerer is... a little silly (although I can see how it could be decent at low levels), so you'd drop the vanguard.
Dragonshards. +1 damage is nothing to sneeze at when it comes ridiculously cheap. I can't even remember if it's an item bonus or not. Is it relevant. Cheap damage = WIN.
Shards give an untyped bonus which is not the topic here, since the OP wants to fill his item bonus slot.
Damage is damage.
Problem is, if you're not focused on melee attacks, (cross)bow attacks or using a staff, you're pretty much boned for good item bonuses to damage at heroic. Especially for something like lightning damage. 
Yeah, I don't think you're going to get anything in Heroic without changing your dagger.
Oh, trust me, I'm getting a shard of the mage on my lightning dagger as soon as I can.  I value un-typed bonuses even more than I do typed ones, obviously.

I don't intend to continue charge-op in any serious capacity beyond heroic, but it's fun for now.  Giving up the Vanguard Weapon for a Staff of Ruin won't do it unfortunately.  I only ever use the vanguard weapon on a charge, normally I cast through a Lightning dagger (lancing at next level when I get the feat in place for it).  The item bonus on a Staff of Ruin is a property, so if I off-hand it I can't gain it (even with dual-implement catser) if I cast through the Lightning dagger, and casting through the Lightning dagger is what let's me do a lightning Flame Spiral instead of a fire Flame Spiral.  (and by converting it to lighting damage I get to slide anyone I hit one square via my Mark of Storms, which immediately triggers a tap of the 1d6 + bonuses damage from entering a square that is adjacent to me, and also can help group enemies if they aren't all conveniently close together)

So I'd very much love to use the Staff of Ruin, but the rules don't make it useful for my big gun, or anything that isn't lightning/thunder already. 

I will definitely get an Alluring Ioun Stone later, but we're talking like 20 levels later, so not the answer yet either.  Which is why I fear Seraphex might be right that as a lightning dagger sorcerer I may be hosed for item bonuses in heroic.

I mean, the Echo is there, it's just that's it's only a +1 and I'd love to find a way to get a +2 instead by late heroic.  But maybe such a way just doesn't exist.

Guess I'll just keep hoping someone will go "Oh, I can't believe you missed $THIS_THING".

Thanks.

-abs

 
For Ensorcelled Blade you can save a fair amount of gold by getting the Bracers of Mighty Striking rather than the Armbands of Power.  Several levels lower and the same bonus on MBAs.

Never mind.  I forgot Ensorcelled Blade can be used in place of a melee basic, rather than actually being a melee basic.
Indeed - the thing about having to wield it for the attack, only applies to weapons - the Staff of Ruin is an implement.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
If you're really interested in boosting your melee damage (because IAoP or BoMS) and you're small, check this out: get a Trained Young Owlbear with the Fey Beast Tamer theme, and put on Lancing Gloves (L7 hand slot item) for an easy +4 damage to all melee attacks while you're mounted on your fey beast. 
Indeed - the thing about having to wield it for the attack, only applies to weapons - the Staff of Ruin is an implement.


Ah, but the Staff of Ruin is also a quarterstaff, which is totally a weapon.

Wednesday Character:

Dredge, Level 2 Revenant!Githzerai Night Stalker Assassin

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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Dredge, level 2
Revenant, Assassin
Build: Night Stalker Assassin
Guild Training: Night Stalker
Assassin: Black Flame Form
Choose your Race in Life: Githzerai
Background: Silent Hunter (Silent Hunter Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 15, Dex 20, Int 12, Wis 13, Cha 18.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 15, Dex 18, Int 12, Wis 13, Cha 16.


AC: 18 Fort: 14 Reflex: 16 Will: 16
HP: 29 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 7

TRAINED SKILLS
Stealth +12, Thievery +11, Bluff +10, Acrobatics +11, Perception +8

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +2, Diplomacy +5, Dungeoneering +2, Endurance +5, Heal +2, History +2, Insight +2, Intimidate +7, Nature +2, Religion +2, Streetwise +5, Athletics

FEATS
Level 1: Githzerai Blade Master
Level 2: Ki Focus Expertise

POWERS
Assassin at-will 1: Shadow Storm
Assassin at-will 1: Executioner's Noose
Assassin encounter 1: Nightmare Shades
Assassin daily 1: Targeted for Death
Assassin utility 2: Agile Recovery

ITEMS
Leather Armor, Bastard sword, Light Shield, Flensing Fullblade +1, Helm of Seven Deaths, Magic Ki Focus +1
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Friday Character:

Snow, Level 3 Razorclaw Shifter Flashing Blade Scout

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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Snow, level 3
Razorclaw Shifter, Scout
Two-Weapon Style: Flashing Blade Mastery
Ranger Wilderness Knacks: Ambush Expertise
Ranger Wilderness Knacks: Watchful Rest
Background: River Smuggler (River Smuggler Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 15, Dex 20, Int 12, Wis 18, Cha 13.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 15, Dex 18, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 13.


AC: 18 Fort: 15 Reflex: 18 Will: 16
HP: 37 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 9

TRAINED SKILLS
Nature +10, Perception +10, Streetwise +8, Acrobatics +13, Stealth +13

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +2, Bluff +2, Diplomacy +2, Dungeoneering +5, Endurance +3, Heal +5, History +2, Insight +5, Intimidate +2, Religion +2, Thievery +6, Athletics +1

FEATS
Feat User Choice: Spiked Chain Training
Level 1: Light Blade Expertise
Level 2: Improved Defenses

POWERS
Scout aspect of the wild (scout) 1: Aspect of the Charging Ram
Scout aspect of the wild (scout) 1: Aspect of the Dancing Serpent
Level 2 Scout Utility Power: Invigorating Stride

ITEMS
Leather Armor, Adventurer's Kit, Climber's Kit, Sack (8), Relentless Spiked chain +1, Dagger, Quickhit Braces (heroic tier)
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

Saturday Characters:

Vorgh, Level 15 Human Storm Sorcerer|Blizzard Mage

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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Vorgh, level 15
Human, Sorcerer, Blizzard Mage
Build: Storm Sorcerer
Spell Source: Storm Magic
Eldritch Strike: Eldritch Strike Charisma
Arcane Admixture Damage Type: Arcane Admixture Cold
Human Power Selection: Heroic Effort
Windrise Ports Benefit: Windrise Ports (Acrobatics)
Arcane Admixture Power: Flame Spiral
Background: Windrise Ports (Windrise Ports Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 9, Con 16, Dex 20, Int 13, Wis 14, Cha 24.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 15, Dex 16, Int 12, Wis 13, Cha 18.


AC: 28 Fort: 26 Reflex: 29 Will: 33
HP: 98 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 24

TRAINED SKILLS
Diplomacy +21, Arcana +15, Acrobatics +19, Bluff +21, Insight +16

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Dungeoneering +13, Endurance +14, Heal +13, History +12, Intimidate +18, Nature +13, Perception +13, Religion +12, Stealth +16, Streetwise +18, Thievery +16, Athletics +10

FEATS
Human: Staff Expertise
Level 1: Improved Defenses
Level 2: Dual Implement Spellcaster
Level 4: Implement Focus (Staff)
Level 6: Grounding Shot
Level 8: Unarmored Agility
Level 10: Against All Odds (retrained to Repel Charge at Level 11)
Level 11: War Wizardry
Level 12: Jack of All Trades
Level 14: Arcane Admixture

POWERS
Power User Choice: Eldritch Strike
Primordial Adept Starting Feature: Solkara's Wave
Ring of Borrowed Spells: Ice Dragon's Teeth
Ring of Borrowed Spells: Earthquake Strike
Sorcerer at-will 1: Blazing Starfall
Sorcerer at-will 1: Dragonfrost
Sorcerer encounter 1: Thundering Roar
Sorcerer daily 1: Ice Javelins
Sorcerer utility 2: Dragonflame Mantle
Sorcerer encounter 3: Flame Spiral
Sorcerer daily 5: Palest Flames
Sorcerer utility 6: Sudden Scales
Sorcerer encounter 7: Rimestorm
Sorcerer daily 9: Howling Hurricane
Sorcerer utility 10: Narrow Escape
Sorcerer encounter 13: Thunder Breath (replaces Thundering Roar)
Sorcerer daily 15: Lightning Daggers (replaces Ice Javelins)

ITEMS
Acrobat Boots (heroic tier), Viper Belt (heroic tier), Helm of Seven Deaths, Rhythm Blade Dagger +2, Ioun's Revelation (level 3), Executioner's Bracers (heroic tier), Backlash Tattoo (heroic tier), Ring of Fury (paragon tier), Raven Cloak +3, Staff of Ruin +3, Robe of Defying Flames Githweave Armor +3, Gloves of Ice (paragon tier), Potion of Cure Moderate Wounds, Ring of Borrowed Spells, Fundamental Ice (heroic tier) (5), Foe Stone (paragon tier)
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Sheska, Level 15 Human Brawler Fighter|Shock Trooper

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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Sheska, level 15
Human, Fighter, Shock Trooper
Build: Guardian Fighter
Fighter: Combat Superiority
Fighter Talents: Brawler Style
Human Power Selection: Heroic Effort
Background: Former Gladiator (Former Gladiator Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 24, Con 13, Dex 16, Int 14, Wis 20, Cha 9.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 18, Con 12, Dex 15, Int 13, Wis 16, Cha 8.


AC: 32 Fort: 34 Reflex: 27 Will: 29
HP: 112 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 29

TRAINED SKILLS
Intimidate +13, Endurance +15, Heal +19, Athletics +21, History +16

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +12, Arcana +11, Bluff +8, Diplomacy +8, Dungeoneering +14, Insight +14, Nature +14, Perception +14, Religion +11, Stealth +12, Streetwise +8, Thievery +12

FEATS
Human: Master at Arms
Level 1: Improved Defenses
Level 2: Weapon Focus (Unarmed)
Level 4: Brawler Guard
Level 6: Inescapable Hold
Level 8: Focused Superiority (retrained to Striking Resurgence at Level 11)
Level 10: Brutal Brawler
Level 11: Deft Hurler Style
Level 12: Armor Specialization (Scale)
Level 14: Marked Scourge

POWERS
Fighter at-will 1: Grappling Strike
Fighter at-will 1: Cleave
Power User Choice: Direct the Strike
Fighter encounter 1: Steel Serpent Strike
Fighter daily 1: Driving Attack
Fighter utility 2: Pass Forward
Fighter encounter 3: Rain of Blows
Fighter daily 5: Rain of Steel
Fighter utility 6: Glowering Threat
Fighter encounter 7: Come and Get It
Fighter daily 9: Pitiless Grapple
Fighter utility 10: Clearheaded
Fighter encounter 13: Stranglehold (replaces Steel Serpent Strike)
Fighter daily 15: Dust Storm Assault (replaces Driving Attack)

ITEMS
Power Jewel (heroic tier), Battle-Scarred Champion (heroic tier), Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier), Davros Elden's Hasty Resurgence (heroic tier), Ioun's Revelation (level 3), Frozen Wyvernscale Armor +3, Spiked gauntlet of Great Opportunity +2, Pileus Helm (Level 6), Rope of Slave Fighting (heroic tier), Battlestrider Greaves (paragon tier), Lightning Javelin +3, Amulet of False Life +3, Backlash Tattoo (heroic tier), Potion of Cure Moderate Wounds
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Mari, Level 15 Human Archery Ranger|Battlefield Archer

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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Mari, level 15
Human, Ranger, Battlefield Archer
Build: Archer Ranger
Fighting Style: Archer Fighting Style
Ranger: Prime Shot
Human Power Selection: Heroic Effort
Background: Fugitive from a Vengeful Rival (Fugitive from a Vengeful Rival Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 9, Con 16, Dex 24, Int 13, Wis 20, Cha 14.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 15, Dex 18, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 13.


AC: 32 Fort: 28 Reflex: 31 Will: 28
HP: 98 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 24

TRAINED SKILLS
Bluff +19, Nature +19, Stealth +22, Dungeoneering +19, Acrobatics +21, Perception +21

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +10, Diplomacy +11, Endurance +12, Heal +14, History +10, Insight +14, Intimidate +11, Religion +10, Streetwise +11, Thievery +16, Athletics +8

FEATS
Human: Weapon Proficiency (Superior crossbow)
Level 1: Crossbow Expertise
Level 2: Improved Defenses
Level 4: Predatory Action
Level 6: Weapon Focus (Crossbow)
Level 8: Lethal Hunter
Level 10: Grounding Shot
Level 11: Steady Shooter
Level 12: Armor Specialization (Hide)
Level 14: Shadow of the Wild

POWERS
Power User Choice: Rapid Shot
Ranger at-will 1: Nimble Strike
Ranger at-will 1: Twin Strike
Ranger encounter 1: Two-Fanged Strike
Ranger daily 1: Sure Shot
Ranger utility 2: Invigorating Stride
Ranger encounter 3: Disruptive Strike
Ranger daily 5: Spitting-Cobra Stance
Ranger utility 6: Healing Lore
Ranger encounter 7: Biting Volley
Ranger daily 9: Attacks on the Run
Ranger utility 10: Defensive Volley
Ranger encounter 13: Pinning Strike (replaces Two-Fanged Strike)
Ranger daily 15: Confounding Arrows (replaces Sure Shot)

ITEMS
Swiftshot Superior crossbow +3, Feytouched Earthhide Armor +3, Cloak of Distortion +3, Bracers of Archery (heroic tier), Acrobat Boots (heroic tier), Gauntlets of Blood (heroic tier), Ioun's Revelation (level 3), Crimson Determination (heroic tier), Eagle Eye Goggles (heroic tier), Tattoo of Bloodied Chains (heroic tier), Elven Chain Shirt (heroic tier), Viper Belt (heroic tier), Endless Quiver, Lightning Arrow +2 (4), Potion of Cure Moderate Wounds, Stone of Wind (paragon tier)
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Sunday Character:

Bowen, Level 1 Half-Elf Euphoric Ardent

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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Bowen, level 1
Half-Elf, Ardent
Build: Euphoric Ardent
Ardent Mantle: Mantle of Elation
Half-Elf Power Selection: Knack for Success
Background: Trained from Birth for a Specific Prophecy (Trained from Birth for a Specific Prophecy Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 18, Dex 14, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 20.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 16, Dex 14, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 18.


AC: 15 Fort: 15 Reflex: 12 Will: 16
HP: 30 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 7

TRAINED SKILLS
Streetwise +10, Endurance +8, Diplomacy +12, Insight +9

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +1, Arcana +1, Bluff +5, Dungeoneering +2, Heal +2, History +1, Intimidate +5, Nature +2, Perception +2, Religion +1, Stealth +1, Thievery +1, Athletics -2

FEATS
Level 1: Valenar Weapon Training

POWERS
Ardent at-will 1: Intent Laid Bare
Ardent at-will 1: Energizing Strike
Ardent daily 1: Battleborn Acuity

ITEMS
Falchion, Hide Armor
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

Indeed - the thing about having to wield it for the attack, only applies to weapons - the Staff of Ruin is an implement.


Ah, but the Staff of Ruin is also a quarterstaff, which is totally a weapon.


Nope.  It's specifically an implement enchantment, despite being also usable as a weapon, and if you're off-handing it, it's DEFINITELY not a weapon any more.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Good catch kirbfucius, I knew I was forgetting something when I was thinking of Iron Armbands. Buck is totally just using Ensorcelled Blade, he would never dream of throwing a dagger, or actually making an STR based MBA either for that matter. And those bracers are a good bit cheaper, and a +2 is definitely good.

How certain are we that off-handing an implement lets you use properties from it for your spells cast through another implement? I thought the rule about properties only working if you made the attack through the item itself was true for weapons and implements? If I'm wrong on that it would be wondrous, and I'd totally get a Staff of Ruin, I can't think of a better source for an item bonus to spell damage. (and it should work for my MBAs as well, since they're a spell, which would free up my arm slot)

Buck is in fact smaller than small, he's a pixie. I thought very, VERY, seriously about Fey Beast Tamer. However in the end I decided against it because making MBAs and charging is fun, heck Buck is multi-classed fighter precisely to gain the immediate interrupt for attacking his allies, but in the end he's still mainly a caster. I like smacking stuff around, but he's really about the blasts and Flame Spiral. In the end I went with Wizard's Apprentice for the extra arcane encounter power (which catches my sorcerer damage bonus) and the free magic item I get at 5th level.

I'm gonna have to go search through the rules forum to see about off-handing a staff of ruin now. If I can do that I'll totally go that route instead of getting a Vanguard Weapon. (though I might keep one in my pocket, just for the +1/+CHA bonuses for my allies, and because Buck does love to charge the nearest thing for purely non-optimization character-driven reasons which aren't really appropriate to this discussion)

Thanks for the pointers.

-abs
Right, implements are tricky like that. The issue with SoR though is "Whenever you make an attack using this staff..."
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Ah, so in general it might work. But for SoR, and anything else stating "using this $BLAH" it doesn't, because DIS isn't actually making me attack with both implements, it's just giving me a damage bonus for the 2nd implement's enhancement?

Thanks Zathris, I was pretty sure SoR wasn't my answer, no matter how much I wanted it to be.

(though . . . it does occur to me that once I hit paragon I could admix some lightning into my Flame Spiral and no longer need a lightning dagger, at which point a SoR might well be the right answer. Though a goblin totem dagger might be an even better choice, cheaper after all, and as believer in DIS cheaper implements are nice)

-abs
Yes, Goblin Totem (or Subtle for non-smalls) is typically a great choice, of course you're throwing 1 feat per power that you want to be lightning for whatever damage that adds vs not having +enh to damage.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
The feat cost is a trade-off, no doubt. I think I'd only need one admixture though, for the Flame Spiral, generally there are some decent lightning/thunder powers out there. It's just that Flame Spiral is too good not to take. Buck's a sorcerer after all, and a big part of why he's a sorcerer is my respect for the power of Flame Spiral.

I'll have to chew on that though. A feat to get basically +1/+2/+3 over what an Echo of Ty'H'Kadi would get me per tier is still a feat, and I'm tight on those. Then again the goblin totem is available very cheaply compared to the Echo, which is very expensive per tier.

It's probably worth the feat, won't be an issue for several levels though no matter what I decide.

-abs
For Ensorcelled Blade you can save a fair amount of gold by getting the Bracers of Mighty Striking rather than the Armbands of Power.  Several levels lower and the same bonus on MBAs.



Ensorcelled Blade is not a melee basic attack, it can merely be used in place of one. Thus, bracers of mighty striking would not apply (as with Howling Strike etc).
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Hrmmm. Good catch Fardiz. Iron Armbands it is.

(as an aside, I'm not entirely convinced that the consensus is actually as strong as it seems, but I'm a rules lawyer and the wording seems perfectly clear to me that Ensorcelled Blade is not an MBA, pity)

-abs
Off-hand I know Mand, Zathris, myself, Plague, and most other regular powers all agree with that distinction.... or did you mean consensus not on the forums?
In fact, I'm not familiar with anyone who disagrees with that consensus.  It's the difference between Ensorcelled Blade's "You can use this power in place of a melee basic attack" (not a basic attack), Elemental Bolt's "This power can be used as a ranged basic attack" (is a basic attack), and Eldritch Strike's "This power counts as a melee basic attack" (is a basic attack).  Is there anyone who actually disagrees with that understanding these days?
No one with any credability disagreed with it in my thread on basic attacks.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
FWIW, I think that the authors of the relevant game elements probably were not clear on the distinction we're drawing.  But given the words we have, I believe the consensus is correct.

"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima

I definitely agree with everyone else. I forgot Ensorcelled Blade could be used in place of a basic, rather than being worded as the other powers that state it counts as or simply is a basic.
I tossed it at some friends offline and most of them would've gone the other way. Mind you, most of them are fairly kind-hearted DMs and generally rule in favor of what makes the player look cooler.

I'm generally on that side of things in theory, but I also tend towards a fairly lawyerly attitude on actual rules, more RAW than RAI. Which is, for me in this case, a pity. Iron Armbands really are a good chunk more than the bracers.

They're probably still worth it for me though. I get some charging fun in heroic and I'll always get granted MBAs plus my encounter immediate interrupt, and if I have to go with an Echo the +2/+4/+6 (IIRC) for the armbands is a good amount better than the Echo's +1/+2/+3.

-abs
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