How many dice do you want to roll on one turn?

DDNext's big thing is Advantage and Disadvantage. If you have Advantage, you roll twice and keep the highest. If you have Disadvantage, you roll twice and keep the lowest.

When you roll a Skill Dice, you're rolling a D20 and a D6, and adding them to your ability modifier. 

When you roll a critical hit, you take one of the weapon dice, and roll it again, adding it to the total.

Weapon Mastery, a must-have for low-level Heavy-weapon Warriors, allows you to roll an extra weapon dice, and drop the lowest one. 

**************************************************************** 

Example of game-play where this all comes up.

A level 4 Barbarian wants to sneak up on an Ogre. He rolls his Skill dice (D6 & D20), and attacks with Advantage (two D20s). He critically hits, rolling his 1 dice for his weapon damage, rolling another for his critical hit, and another for Weapon Mastery (ignoring the lowest result). 

The player was doing something very basic, and it required 7 dice to resolve. And we're not talking about a CharOped PC built to do crazy things. He took the Weapon Mastery feat, which is an obvious choice for 1/3rd of the classes currently available. Stealth is an option for everyone, and the example could have easily been replaced with Balance, Drive, Ride, Handle Animal, Listen, Spot, Tumble, Climb, Jump, or Swim as a check needed to set up an attack.

How does everyone feel about rolling this many dice? Too many, off by a bit, or not enough?

"Ah, the age-old conundrum. Defenders of a game are too blind to see it's broken, and critics are too idiotic to see that it isn't." - Brian McCormick

Requires tons of dice? Favors online play over off.
Requires really ad hoc dice combinations that make it difficult to script? Favors offline play over on.
Requiring tons of dice AND difficult to script? Favors not actually playing the game.
I'd like to roll d3 times in a single turn, any number of dice per roll.  So rolling 2d20 (attacking at advantage), a mess or d6's (Damage), and then some other die for a random effect (Save/check?) is good

I'd be fine rolling up to 6-8 times (Multiple attacks and their damage) as long as that wasn't EVERY round with EVERY character

"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice."

 

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i dont care if i get to roll once or 50 times in a turn. its dnd and dice are part of that, the mechanics shouldnt get in the way of some good old fashioned dice chuckin.
If you have Advantage, you roll twice and keep the highest.

I still roll the dice once to save some time : )

I can comfortably roll 5d12 in one hand. If i try for 6d12, i often roll one off the table, or drop one.

2 handed, i can roll 8 at a time.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

As an absolute maximum, 5 dice is as many as I'll ever roll.  That's enough dice that I need to cup both of my hands and make a little cage with my fingers so they jangle around well, and just enough that I can do the math with an <1second glance.  Anything more is not enough jangle and too much time.

In the past while playing a mage, I'd roll a multiplier of the total dice needed.  For 11d6, I'd roll 5d6, multiply by two, then add 1 more d6.  12d6 would be 4d6 multiply the total by 3, and so on.  Now, my friends don't mind picking up 20, 30 dice at a time and rolling them all with these evil little gleeful looks on their faces.

"Lightning...it flashes bright, then fades away.  It can't protect, it can only destroy."

i dont care if i get to roll once or 50 times in a turn. its dnd and dice are part of that, the mechanics shouldnt get in the way of some good old fashioned dice chuckin.



This.
I'm weird. I'm just going to say that straight up.

Depending on the game, I'm perfectly happy if I never have to utilize a mechanic or even pull out my character sheet for the entire session. I've had plenty of good games like that.

But if I have a game with dice, when it's time to roll them, I don't care how many I'm rolling. But then, my main games these days have dice pools, so I'm often rolling anywhere from 5-10 dice at a time to count up successes and such. It doesn't bother me in the least.

I mean, dice are a part of the game - what's wrong with rolling a bunch? I'm honestly curious. 

For those confused on how DDN's modular rules might work, this may provide some insight: http://www.tor.com/blogs/2012/11/the-world-of-darkness-shines-when-it-abandons-canon

@mikemearls: Uhhh... do you really not see all the 3e/4e that's basically the entire core system?

 

It is entirely unnecessary to denigrate someone else's approach to gaming in order to validate your own.


Weapon Mastery, a must-have for low-level Heavy-weapon Warriors, allows you to roll an extra weapon dice, and drop the lowest one.



  It is one of the few things that actually works with deadly, so it's even better at high level than low.

How does everyone feel about rolling this many dice? Too many, off by a bit, or not enough?



  Rolling several hundred sneak attack dice a round in 3E was a bit much.  Rolling potentially (without haste/potion of speed) 3d20 + 3d4 attack dice and 30 sneak attack + 14 damage dice in a turn doesn't seem like a lot in comparison.

@mikemearls don't quite understand the difference

I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down. - Eric Cartman

Enough chitchat!  Time is candy! - Pinky Pie

For me, ten dice at once is my comfortable limit.  I never memorized Delayed Blast Fireball in the past because it was a pain in the ass to roll 15-20d6 >.>


(And to be fair, ten dice is probably my limit just because I got so used to rolling them for fireballs.  Or 8d4 for mordenkainen's force missiles.)
The difference between madness and genius is determined only by degrees of success.
For me, ten dice at once is my comfortable limit.  I never memorized Delayed Blast Fireball in the past because it was a pain in the ass to roll 15-20d6 >.>


(And to be fair, ten dice is probably my limit just because I got so used to rolling them for fireballs.  Or 8d4 for mordenkainen's force missiles.)



well, there is something in throwing 15d6 with empowered fireball or 20d6 with delayed blast fireball.

But if you do not like many dices being thrown you can use semi-random damage. Throw only 4 or 5 dice and take the rest even number of dices as average.

I.E.

6d6=4d6+7
7d6=5d6+7
8d6=4d6+14
9d6=5d6+14
10d6=4d6+21
11d6=5d6+21
...
etc...

Wait, there's a limit !?!?!?

Seriously, I don't mind throwing quite a few dice in the game. Its nice, and every die roll is suspense in action. However, as the DM, I have a lot of dice rolling to do, so certain mechanics do worry me in getting a little over the top...like Advantage/Disadvantage when dealing with a large group of Monsters...especially when some have Advantage, some have disadvantage, and some have neither, and some have them cancelling each other out, and trying to keep that all in line. The mechanic works for smaller skirmishes, but not big groups, and the whole boolean cancelling out thin bugs me.

I've played tabletop wargames, and Dice Pool games however, so whole handsful of dice, in and off themselves is not a problem, and I also have no problem rolling several times if needed. (ie: damage is 20d6, and I only have 5d6 with me, rolling 4 times and adding up the results)

I've also played "Exploding/open-ended dice" games, where whenever you roll the Max result on a die, you count the success, then roll again and add the new roll, so number of dice is never the problem!

He who dies with the most Dice wins, afterall (I used to have a culligan waterbottle full of non-d6's and another full of just d6's, good times, good times, but hardly portable) 
Want continued support for 4e, check this out, 4e Lives and Breaths

Check out MY eZine, Random Encounters Seuss (lordseussmd on YM)
As a recent Marvel Heroic Roleplaying player, in which one rolls 4-7 differently sized dice for nearly every action (and reaction!) while the GM manages another die pool, D&D Next doesn't seem too bad in comparison. Rolling dice is fun! It does slow down the game for newer players, though.

  Rolling several hundred sneak attack dice a round in 3E was a bit much.  Rolling potentially (without haste/potion of speed) 3d20 + 3d4 attack dice and 30 sneak attack + 14 damage dice in a turn doesn't seem like a lot in comparison.



Several hundred? Surely that's hyperbole.

For those confused on how DDN's modular rules might work, this may provide some insight: http://www.tor.com/blogs/2012/11/the-world-of-darkness-shines-when-it-abandons-canon

@mikemearls: Uhhh... do you really not see all the 3e/4e that's basically the entire core system?

 

It is entirely unnecessary to denigrate someone else's approach to gaming in order to validate your own.

Wait, there's a limit !?!?!?

Seriously, I don't mind throwing quite a few dice in the game. Its nice, and every die roll is suspense in action. However, as the DM, I have a lot of dice rolling to do, so certain mechanics do worry me in getting a little over the top...like Advantage/Disadvantage when dealing with a large group of Monsters...especially when some have Advantage, some have disadvantage, and some have neither, and some have them cancelling each other out, and trying to keep that all in line. The mechanic works for smaller skirmishes, but not big groups, and the whole boolean cancelling out thin bugs me.



I would submit that if it weren't boolean, and you had to figure out how many cases of Advantage and/or Disadvantage applied to any one unit, that it would be even harder or more complicated to figure out.

I imagine (this is, of course, speculation, but it's how I'd do it) that in Mass Combat, there would be some easier method of calculating Advantage or Disadvantage, possibly by assigning it to entire squads or whatever. So, for example, if even one individual unit in the squad had Advantage or Disadvantage, it applies to the entire squad (one guy can help spot targets for his battle buddies, say, or the entire squad gets bogged down by helping one person who's stuck in mud or underbrush or what-have-you).

I've played tabletop wargames, and Dice Pool games however, so whole handsful of dice, in and off themselves is not a problem, and I also have no problem rolling several times if needed. (ie: damage is 20d6, and I only have 5d6 with me, rolling 4 times and adding up the results)



Yep, that's a very good way of handling it. For those groups who dig the technological angle, there are plenty of die-roller apps out and about these days as well.

I've also played "Exploding/open-ended dice" games, where whenever you roll the Max result on a die, you count the success, then roll again and add the new roll, so number of dice is never the problem!



Again, yep. I was running a Demon: the Descent game on Friday, and one player had a dice pool of 4, I think, but rolled a few 10's and almost achieved an Exceptional Success. (For those unfamiliar: the way the math works, on average one will roll a success on every three dice in the pool. An Exceptional Success occurs when you roll 5 successes, so -on average- you need 15 dice in the pool to be relatively assured of an Exceptional Success. Of course, with the "10 again" rule, you can achieve that with less dice; it's just not an average result.)


He who dies with the most Dice wins, afterall (I used to have a culligan waterbottle full of non-d6's and another full of just d6's, good times, good times, but hardly portable) 



Yeah, that doesn't sound like it. And dang that's a lot of dice!

For those confused on how DDN's modular rules might work, this may provide some insight: http://www.tor.com/blogs/2012/11/the-world-of-darkness-shines-when-it-abandons-canon

@mikemearls: Uhhh... do you really not see all the 3e/4e that's basically the entire core system?

 

It is entirely unnecessary to denigrate someone else's approach to gaming in order to validate your own.

My buddy used to love his dice bowl, it was like a giant cappuccino cup, he enjoyed dipping in to roll as many d10s as his mind thrust allowed.
You can pry My dice from My cold, dead fingers!

I wish I still had those Culligan Bottles of dice, that was epic, ahhhh for the days of youth when things like jobs and stuff didn't get in the way of Role-playing 
Want continued support for 4e, check this out, 4e Lives and Breaths

Check out MY eZine, Random Encounters Seuss (lordseussmd on YM)
I'm weird. I'm just going to say that straight up.

Depending on the game, I'm perfectly happy if I never have to utilize a mechanic or even pull out my character sheet for the entire session. I've had plenty of good games like that.

But if I have a game with dice, when it's time to roll them, I don't care how many I'm rolling. But then, my main games these days have dice pools, so I'm often rolling anywhere from 5-10 dice at a time to count up successes and such. It doesn't bother me in the least.

I mean, dice are a part of the game - what's wrong with rolling a bunch? I'm honestly curious. 



I see an excess of dice in a game like a Rube Goldberg device: a system with more steps and processes in it than necessary, for the sake of it having extra steps and processes. Now, "excess" means different things to different people, and we all have different tolerances for it. I simply prefer simple and fast adjudication.

Also, as someone who teaches new and inexperienced players, more steps makes our games more laborious. Ever had a player who keeps asking "what dice do I roll?" or keeps rolling the d12 instead of the d20? Some players aren't as competent with the dice as we are.  

"Ah, the age-old conundrum. Defenders of a game are too blind to see it's broken, and critics are too idiotic to see that it isn't." - Brian McCormick


I see an excess of dice in a game like a Rube Goldberg device: a system with more steps and processes in it than necessary, for the sake of it having extra steps and processes.



You're going to have that when you have different types of dice. Most (if not all) of the games I know of with the dice pool mechanic use the same dice for those pools, so there's less confusion.

Now, "excess" means different things to different people, and we all have different tolerances for it. I simply prefer simple and fast adjudication.



I've found that World of Darkness has a faster adjudication than D&D does, despite more dice. They're just all d10's - there isn't a confusion as to which types of dice. Further, everything is resolved in one roll. If you want to punch a guy, you add your Strength, plus your Brawl, subtract the opponent's Defense, and roll that many dice. For each success (8 or higher) you get, that's one level of damage. Done. Now there are permutations, of course, such as the "10 again" rule, but it's very quick and easy despite having potentially oodles of dice.

Now, D&D, you have to roll to attack with the d20, then if you hit roll whatever dice is applicable to the attack you're making. Sure, you can roll the d20 and your damage die together for ease, but there are still two different types of dice to increase confusion, particularly with new folks.

Also, as someone who teaches new and inexperienced players, more steps makes our games more laborious. Ever had a player who keeps asking "what dice do I roll?" or keeps rolling the d12 instead of the d20? Some players aren't as competent with the dice as we are.  



I do as well, and, well....they're new and/or inexperienced. I expect them to make mistakes. Sure, the system may or may not do any favors, depending on the system, but they're going to make mistakes regardless.

For those confused on how DDN's modular rules might work, this may provide some insight: http://www.tor.com/blogs/2012/11/the-world-of-darkness-shines-when-it-abandons-canon

@mikemearls: Uhhh... do you really not see all the 3e/4e that's basically the entire core system?

 

It is entirely unnecessary to denigrate someone else's approach to gaming in order to validate your own.

As a 20th-level character, 2d20 (advantage mechanic) + 1dX (d20 modifier) + 5dX (damage) are all the dice I ever want to roll for one attack.

A handful of eight dice is plenty, but I could certainly compromise with damage maximizing at 10dX (since not every attack roll has advantage or a modifying die).

Spells like Disintegrate (that do 17d6 damage) are obnoxious, in my opinion.

Danny



well, there is something in throwing 15d6 with empowered fireball or 20d6 with delayed blast fireball.

But if you do not like many dices being thrown you can use semi-random damage. Throw only 4 or 5 dice and take the rest even number of dices as average.



Personally I'd rather make the dice rolls more swingy. Whether you roll 20d6 or use an average, either way you're getting rather close to the average, or enough so that most of the time it doesn't matter. You'll almost never roll anywhere close to max damage, and you're probably going to end up around 70 damage.

I'd prefer damage to be something like 2d6x3, where what you roll is more emphasized. So rolling max damage is a big deal and likely to happen from time to time.

I don't care how many dice are rolled, I care about what gets accomplished.
Having to roll for disadvantage or advantage as a DM for mulitple creatures gives me heartburn, but overall greater amounts of dice should be reserved for higher level ability that is not used often. But it is still hard to tell how they are scaling caster versus martial damage dice, and whether spells will be reserved for nuclear blasts. 10 dice seems to be a reasonable limit, and throw in dice averaging to allow for higher average damage. Max damage on criticals is also nice, verus adding extra dice. That is one thing that annoyed me with 4E, i.e. extra critical damage dice.

  Rolling several hundred sneak attack dice a round in 3E was a bit much.  Rolling potentially (without haste/potion of speed) 3d20 + 3d4 attack dice and 30 sneak attack + 14 damage dice in a turn doesn't seem like a lot in comparison.



Several hundred? Surely that's hyperbole.




  No.  Several rogue builds can put out several hundred sneak dice by 20.  Without getting at all fancy a rogue can easily be doing 9 attacks a round with TWF, extra attack feats and haste for almost 100 dice a round.  If you start adding in things like UMDed buffs, prestiege classes, splitting bows or attacks of opportunity it can get much much higher.  Part of the reason why casters in 3.5E give up in disgust at trying to kill things with damage and just start going for insta-kills.

  Probably part of the reason why 5E is limiting it to once per turn.

@mikemearls don't quite understand the difference

I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down. - Eric Cartman

Enough chitchat!  Time is candy! - Pinky Pie

Having to roll for disadvantage or advantage as a DM for mulitple creatures gives me heartburn, but overall greater amounts of dice should be reserved for higher level ability that is not used often. But it is still hard to tell how they are scaling caster versus martial damage dice, and whether spells will be reserved for nuclear blasts. 10 dice seems to be a reasonable limit, and throw in dice averaging to allow for higher average damage. Max damage on criticals is also nice, verus adding extra dice. That is one thing that annoyed me with 4E, i.e. extra critical damage dice.

I would think that dice averaging is the reason spells like Sunburst do 12d6 (~42 damage) as opposed to 6d12 (~39 damage), but I don't know that doubling the amount of dice being rolled and tallied is worth the ~3 damage gained by doing so.

Perhaps it's more of a concern for the minimum? With 12d6 you're guaranteed at least 12 damage, whereas 6d12 only guarantees 6 damage? Spells do half-damage on a miss, so I'm not particularly concerned about minimums, myself.

Danny


  No.  Several rogue builds can put out several hundred sneak dice by 20.  Without getting at all fancy a rogue can easily be doing 9 attacks a round with TWF, extra attack feats and haste for almost 100 dice a round.  If you start adding in things like UMDed buffs, prestiege classes, splitting bows or attacks of opportunity it can get much much higher.  Part of the reason why casters in 3.5E give up in disgust at trying to kill things with damage and just start going for insta-kills.

  Probably part of the reason why 5E is limiting it to once per turn.




Huh. Still, none of that sounds like it's in one attack, which I thought you'd meant, given that I had the impression that the entire question behind the thread was how many dice do you want to throw at one time. So I think in any given attack, it should be less than that (say, like, 10, which is what Sneak Attack maxes at in the Player's Handbook).

For those confused on how DDN's modular rules might work, this may provide some insight: http://www.tor.com/blogs/2012/11/the-world-of-darkness-shines-when-it-abandons-canon

@mikemearls: Uhhh... do you really not see all the 3e/4e that's basically the entire core system?

 

It is entirely unnecessary to denigrate someone else's approach to gaming in order to validate your own.

I would think that dice averaging is the reason spells like Sunburst do 12d6 (~42 damage) as opposed to 6d12 (~39 damage), but I don't know that doubling the amount of dice being rolled and tallied is worth the ~3 damage gained by doing so.

Perhaps it's more of a concern for the minimum? With 12d6 you're guaranteed at least 12 damage, whereas 6d12 only guarantees 6 damage? Spells do half-damage on a miss, so I'm not particularly concerned about minimums, myself.




  It could be that people often have a lot of d6s around so often can roll all 12 of them or at least 6 twice, vs. maybe only have 1d12 and having to roll it 6 times.

@mikemearls don't quite understand the difference

I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down. - Eric Cartman

Enough chitchat!  Time is candy! - Pinky Pie

It could be that people often have a lot of d6s around so often can roll all 12 of them or at least 6 twice, vs. maybe only have 1d12 and having to roll it 6 times.

Maybe.

The way I see it, a set of dice only comes with one of each, so it should be assumed that players are rolling the prescribed amount of times in order to calculate their damage output (i.e. rolling a d6 twelve times and tallying the total).

I'm a huge proponent of rolling all of your attack, modifier, and damage dice at the same time, but the majority of people I've played with—anecdotally—only bring one set of dice to the game. (Which is usually a special set they've picked up specifically for their character.)

Danny


  No.  Several rogue builds can put out several hundred sneak dice by 20.  Without getting at all fancy a rogue can easily be doing 9 attacks a round with TWF, extra attack feats and haste for almost 100 dice a round.  If you start adding in things like UMDed buffs, prestiege classes, splitting bows or attacks of opportunity it can get much much higher.  Part of the reason why casters in 3.5E give up in disgust at trying to kill things with damage and just start going for insta-kills.

  Probably part of the reason why 5E is limiting it to once per turn.




"Several hundred" is still hyperbole.  Cracking 100 is totally doable at the highest levels, but making it up to 200 is pretty much impossible without going super epic.  A third hundred requires something totally absurd, and four hundred just isn't happening.
The difference between madness and genius is determined only by degrees of success.

  No.  Several rogue builds can put out several hundred sneak dice by 20.  Without getting at all fancy a rogue can easily be doing 9 attacks a round with TWF, extra attack feats and haste for almost 100 dice a round.  If you start adding in things like UMDed buffs, prestiege classes, splitting bows or attacks of opportunity it can get much much higher.  Part of the reason why casters in 3.5E give up in disgust at trying to kill things with damage and just start going for insta-kills.

  Probably part of the reason why 5E is limiting it to once per turn.




Huh. Still, none of that sounds like it's in one attack, which I thought you'd meant, given that I had the impression that the entire question behind the thread was how many dice do you want to throw at one time. So I think in any given attack, it should be less than that (say, like, 10, which is what Sneak Attack maxes at in the Player's Handbook).




Nitpick: I asked for one turn, not one action. And for the record, high-level 3ed definately takes the cake for rolling way too many dice. Even the simple classes like Fighter have "Make 4 attacks a turn!" baked into the class by level 16 (minimum of 8 rolls).  

"Ah, the age-old conundrum. Defenders of a game are too blind to see it's broken, and critics are too idiotic to see that it isn't." - Brian McCormick


Nitpick: I asked for one turn, not one action. And for the record, high-level 3ed definately takes the cake for rolling way too many dice. Even the simple classes like Fighter have "Make 4 attacks a turn!" baked into the class by level 16 (minimum of 8 rolls).



Yeah, I saw that when I looked again at the thread title.

Still...part of the game is to roll dice. I guess I just don't see the complaint, really. To me, complaining about rolling dice is about the same as complaining about having to have a character sheet.

YMMV, of course...it just seems odd to me, is all.

For those confused on how DDN's modular rules might work, this may provide some insight: http://www.tor.com/blogs/2012/11/the-world-of-darkness-shines-when-it-abandons-canon

@mikemearls: Uhhh... do you really not see all the 3e/4e that's basically the entire core system?

 

It is entirely unnecessary to denigrate someone else's approach to gaming in order to validate your own.

Cars need roads to travel on, but we generally want to take the shortest route to get somewhere. That's how I feel about dice: they are a means to the game, and not the end result. 

Craps is a game that's about rolling dice. D&D is a game about fantasy role-playing that uses dice. To me, at least.

"Ah, the age-old conundrum. Defenders of a game are too blind to see it's broken, and critics are too idiotic to see that it isn't." - Brian McCormick

Cars need roads to travel on, but we generally want to take the shortest route to get somewhere. That's how I feel about dice: they are a means to the game, and not the end result. 

Craps is a game that's about rolling dice. D&D is a game about fantasy role-playing that uses dice. To me, at least.



I'm not saying that I want to roll dice all the time. One of our best games, if not the best game, my group had...we hardly rolled, except for one scene where they were playing a sport.

I'm used to playing Mind's Eye Theatre, where I really prefer to not even have to pull my character sheet out of my pocket at all during game, and when I need to use it, to use it as quickly as possible and put it away again.

I'm just saying that I don't mind taking a long drive now and again, to use your analogy. Not as a regular thing, but I'm not against it in the least, and sometimes I like just getting out and going places, or even aimlessly wandering and finding new things. That's all.

For those confused on how DDN's modular rules might work, this may provide some insight: http://www.tor.com/blogs/2012/11/the-world-of-darkness-shines-when-it-abandons-canon

@mikemearls: Uhhh... do you really not see all the 3e/4e that's basically the entire core system?

 

It is entirely unnecessary to denigrate someone else's approach to gaming in order to validate your own.

"Several hundred" is still hyperbole.  Cracking 100 is totally doable at the highest levels, but making it up to 200 is pretty much impossible without going super epic.  A third hundred requires something totally absurd, and four hundred just isn't happening.



www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t...

  Easist way is with level dips and other things like busted ToB garbage which everyone seems to love, you can get to 20d6 per strike and through various means you can increase your attacks per round beyond 9.  You're doing 200 dice fairly easily without going "super epic."  As soon as you hit epic though you take Lingering Strike and your sneak damage is doubled, with Craven you're doing about 2k damage just off sneak attacks at level 21.  If you can fit in Robilar's and Deft Opportunist or another "when attacked" feat you can potentially get in another 10 attacks (whatever you dex mod is) a round off opportunity attacks for another 200 sneak dice.  That does require getting attacked a lot, but that is 400 dice and 2k damage (4k with lingering) just on sneak at around level 20 and there is nothing absurd about it.  Alternatly you can play a "more powerful" CoDzilla that will put out about 5% as much damage rather than spend actions healing like they should.

  Oh, and here www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t... that will take that 400 dice and turn it into 800, assuming your DM is dumb enough to allow material from Dragon Magazine.

@mikemearls don't quite understand the difference

I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down. - Eric Cartman

Enough chitchat!  Time is candy! - Pinky Pie

I want to blow stuff up.    Xd6 is fine with me.    


www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t...

  Easist way is with level dips and other things like busted ToB garbage which everyone seems to love, you can get to 20d6 per strike and through various means you can increase your attacks per round beyond 9.  You're doing 200 dice fairly easily without going "super epic."  As soon as you hit epic though you take Lingering Strike and your sneak damage is doubled, with Craven you're doing about 2k damage just off sneak attacks at level 21.  If you can fit in Robilar's and Deft Opportunist or another "when attacked" feat you can potentially get in another 10 attacks (whatever you dex mod is) a round off opportunity attacks for another 200 sneak dice.  That does require getting attacked a lot, but that is 400 dice and 2k damage (4k with lingering) just on sneak at around level 20 and there is nothing absurd about it.  Alternatly you can play a "more powerful" CoDzilla that will put out about 5% as much damage rather than spend actions healing like they should.

  Oh, and here www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t... that will take that 400 dice and turn it into 800, assuming your DM is dumb enough to allow material from Dragon Magazine.



.....Well, at least I feel better about hating the **** out of ToB.  (I ignore the reaction attacks of opportunity, but the 200 was definitely possible, I was wrong on that.)
The difference between madness and genius is determined only by degrees of success.
DDNext's big thing is Advantage and Disadvantage. If you have Advantage, you roll twice and keep the highest. If you have Disadvantage, you roll twice and keep the lowest.

When you roll a Skill Dice, you're rolling a D20 and a D6, and adding them to your ability modifier. 

When you roll a critical hit, you take one of the weapon dice, and roll it again, adding it to the total.

Weapon Mastery, a must-have for low-level Heavy-weapon Warriors, allows you to roll an extra weapon dice, and drop the lowest one. 

**************************************************************** 

Example of game-play where this all comes up.

A level 4 Barbarian wants to sneak up on an Ogre. He rolls his Skill dice (D6 & D20), and attacks with Advantage (two D20s). He critically hits, rolling his 1 dice for his weapon damage, rolling another for his critical hit, and another for Weapon Mastery (ignoring the lowest result). 

The player was doing something very basic, and it required 7 dice to resolve. And we're not talking about a CharOped PC built to do crazy things. He took the Weapon Mastery feat, which is an obvious choice for 1/3rd of the classes currently available. Stealth is an option for everyone, and the example could have easily been replaced with Balance, Drive, Ride, Handle Animal, Listen, Spot, Tumble, Climb, Jump, or Swim as a check needed to set up an attack.

How does everyone feel about rolling this many dice? Too many, off by a bit, or not enough?

The less dice option is already hardwired in the Bestiary.


We need to at least start with the dice before we can replace them with averages.


Just start replacing them with averages.


Skill dice:  +3

Adv/Dis: +2/-2 stack or combine all you want or add in some fiddly chart of modifiers from edition of choice.

Bless/Guidance: +2

Weapon Mastery: +1 for d4/d6, +2 for d8/d10, +3 for d12

Deadly strike:  half the Die size per extra die.
I dont know how many does it take to knock the dm unconcous so i can take his stuffInnocent.

These new forums are terrible.

I misspell words on purpose too draw out grammer nazis.

How does everyone feel about rolling this many dice? Too many, off by a bit, or not enough?

I want to roll 27 dice every round. No more and no less, and if WotC doesn't deliver on that I'm boycotting D&DN and will call on others to join my boycott.
I never really thought about there being too many dice to roll in a turn. I honestly don't mind rolling what I'm supposed to roll regardless of the number of dice.

And I'm not one to roll single dice several times. If I have to roll 6d6 I roll six actual d6 rather than 1 d6 six times. For Advantage/Disadvantage, I always roll 2 d20s rather than 1 d20 two times.

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brian ®

Guitars & Gaming

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