How Would You Convert Tome of Battle to AD&D 1e?

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I'm playing in a 1e game as a Fighter, and I've hit a bit of a problem: I've now specialized and double-specialized in my main weapon (bastard sword) and there's nothing really interesting I can do with my Fighter in terms of leveling. I could specialize in a ranged weapon, since bows get some fun stuff with specialization, but there's already a Ranger in the party who's done that so it would be a bit repetitive.


Given my stats (STR 17, INT 13, WIS 10, DEX 16, CON 16, CHA 14), there's not a huge range of interesting class alternatives from within 1e - we've already got a Cleric in the party and my character isn't particularly religious, don't have the stats or character background for Druid, don't have the Charisma for Paladin, don't have the Wisdom for a Ranger and we've already got one, we've already got 2 Magic-Users, don't have the alignment for Cavalier and honestly it's not that great, don't have the Wisdom or background for Barbarian, and Thief and Thief-Acrobat don't really fit that well.


However, I think my DM would be willing to let me multi/dual-class into a Warblade or Swordsage (and I love the ToB)...if it didn't require him to do much/any in the way of conversion.


Does anyone know of a retro-conversion of the Tome of Battle classes? Or have any hints about how to go about converting them?

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I'm guessing you mean AD&D 1e (1977 - 1983). I'm not terribly familiar with that edition (my exposure to D&D of that age was the 1989 AD&D 2e).

A basic tone-down might be possible, but it would undoubtedly be very, very intensive to shift to 1e. The ToB is intensely tied to the action economy and power /mobility curve of 3.5 - that is, it's tightly designed around move/swift/standard actions per character, and its bonus damage assumes 3e HP (which is oodles higher than in 1e!).

You might be able to find a few rules of thumb on the results - for instance, start by cutting all the damage dice into flat-bonuses (a move that does +4d6 in 3.5 would do +4 here (not saying it'd work, just giving an example of a thumb rule) - but without those, I'm really not optimistic about a successful port.

Looks like you're stuck in one of the ruts with 1e: You hit stuff with stick. Eventually, you can't get any better at hitting stuff with stick.

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Yeah taking ToB to 1st edition is going to be next to impossible. the action economy not to mention the EXPLOSION of HP that every got from the change of 2nd to 3rd ( ist and 2nd are close enough to each other except for some classes, such as the ranger) in the ealrier editions the most HP a fighter was getting was 140ish. yeah fighters in 3rd have that by 7th.


So that 2nd level ToB maneuver that does +4d6 dmg is going to be crazy. the flat amount might be decent though. anything at all that fiddles with the action economy ( white raven tactics) would IMO just have to go.   

ToB is so intrinsicly tied to 3rd ed and its ruleset that you honesly have to completely rewrite teh whole thing

it would be so much easier for your DM to just work out some cool tricks for you to do if you want to sick more proficeincies into a particualr weapon or givng you things to do other than just smacking things in the face.


but that really all just just ties back to 1st ed strenght, its about you coming up with cool and interesting ways to play your characte and what all that character can do.      


what exactly do you want form your fighter, is it just ' i wanna do more than say 'i roll a d20, OK i hit THAC0 3 is it successful?" or do you want more from your fighter?  
I wouldn't even try.  ToB is fully designed for 3e and takes advantage of 3e mechanics.  For the most part evolution only works well one way so why you could "update" a 1st edition character to 3e without a lot of trouble going the other way really doesn't work so well.

If your bored with doing the same things over and over again as a early edition fighter (which is better than a 3e fighter overall comparison) maybe you should look at getting the DM to allow some of the houserule from from 2e and before that give you other things to do with your attacks. 
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I think you'd have to pretty much rebuild the basic concept from the ground up (combat maneuvers that do interesting stuff).  Since I'm not familiar with that edition, I'd really have to look at what the other classes have to estimate the right sort of effects to add.

You could probably work with the basic descriptions of different maneuvers for inspiration.
Looks like you're stuck in one of the ruts with 1e: You hit stuff with stick. Eventually, you can't get any better at hitting stuff with stick.

Isn't that basically the same 3rd Edition problem the Tome of Battle was invented to solve?

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You actually don't need to do more damage in 1E. Not only did people have fewer HP, but monsters had FAR LESS hit points. Monsters didn't get Con bonuses. Yeah.

The thing to do is focus on the non-damage options that the Tome gives you as far as movement, parrying attacks, healing, semi-flight/dimensional hopping, and the like.

You could also do things like giving up multiple attacks for big attacks, as 1E has no iteratives...you always get your multiple attacks.

Honestly, fighters are so much stronger in 1E then 3E there's no need for massive upgrades.

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Fighter vs Warblade analysis http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19573526/Analyzing_the_Fighter_vs_The_Warblade The Lockdown F/20 iconic build http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19856162/A_little_Lock_build_for_you
Yeah, I may have to do this myself, and it's more the non-damage stuff that I'm after (charge attacks, Jump Attacks, defenses against magic, and the like). In general, I want the level of variety of things to do that magic gives you, with the added advantage of predictability, consistency, etc. that having a list of abilities give you. 

I came across this thread that does 3.5 to 1e conversions, but I don't have the best eye for system math, so any advice about how to convert damage values and the like would be appreciated.
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Don't mess with the damage, damage works pretty good in 1E. The only thing you need to worry about is subbing 1 swing for multiple attacks. i.e. give up 2 attacks, make 1 attack for +1/2 ML dmg.

Basically, the only paradigm you need to worry is 'approx what damage should a melee be doing with a swing there, and how will I reskin it?' Considering that melee dmg maxed out around the +17 mark (+20 with weapon spec), additional damage above wpn+5d6 is probably pushing the limits of what you can allow. 

As soon as you start increasing damage, you start throwing ALL the combat classes in 1E out the door.

Charging isn't a 1E problem...you still got multiple attacks on charges in 1E.

Additional movement options, save boosters, and the like are your best bet to have fun with. The stances especially should be nice for you.

==Aelryinth


        
Fighter vs Warblade analysis http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19573526/Analyzing_the_Fighter_vs_The_Warblade The Lockdown F/20 iconic build http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19856162/A_little_Lock_build_for_you