Dragons: sapient or not?

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So, Dragons! There are umpteen bajillion Dragon cards in Magic.

Some of these are depicted on their cards or in the stories as intelligent (Elder Dragons, Lesser Elders, Primevals, Nalathni Dragons, Shivan Dragons, Kamigawan Dragon kami, Nekoru; Niv-Mizzet, Ugin, Malfegor).

Others seem to be no more intelligent than, say, dogs (the dragons of Jund).

What about the others? Are most of them sapient or not? Is this known for any other specific breeds?

What about drakes, hydras, wurms, and Elder Land Wurms?


Speculation in the absense of solid data?
Most Ravnican dragons (other than Niv-Mizzet's species) seem dumb, going solely by the cards. I figure Dragon Mages are Shivan Dragons, and the Elder Land Wurms should be intelligent since they used to be Elder Dragons. I get the impression that wurms are dumb, but I don't know about drakes. Maybe smarter than dogs (some intelligence is suggested in that Talrand story), but not as smart as a sapient dragon. No clue about hydras.
Please note: unless I'm trying to be sarcastic or humorous, most of my posts are very literal. Don't try to "read between the lines" because there is usually nothing there. I try not to imply anything when I write.
The answer is sometimes.  I would think the majority of dragons are sapient.  Elder Land Wurms (being specifically depowered Elder Dragons) were probably sapient, at least in their first generation.  They may have degenerated.  Few drakes are sapient (They are often kept as pets, but at least one Drake from portal indicates a capability for abstract thought), and virtually no hydras nor wurms are.

"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice."

 

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Round 1: (4-1-2, 1 kill)
Round 2: (16-8-2, 4 kills)
Round 3: (18-9-2, 1 kill)
Round 4: (22-10-0, 2 kills)
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Last Edited by Ralph on blank, 1920

Also, you know what's weird/funny about Elder Land Wurm art? It has wings.
Please note: unless I'm trying to be sarcastic or humorous, most of my posts are very literal. Don't try to "read between the lines" because there is usually nothing there. I try not to imply anything when I write.
I tend to think of it as two kinds of dragons, let's just say "upper" and "lower" for the sake of this discussion. To me, "Upper" dragons (like the ones you listed) are approximately to "lower" dragons are human beings are to monkeys in the evolutionary theory sense. So "lower" dragons are not, to my way of thinking, sapient. The "Upper" dragons most assuredly are.

As for the others, I think drakes are intelligent, but only in the bestial sense of the word. I think they're a clever animal, but an animal still. Wurms I consider lumbering with minimal intelligence. The Elder Land Wurms are a tricky one, since it's hard to know if the world spell that cast them down from the skies also removed their sapience, but I'd lean toward no, again, just personally.

The hydras are the interesting one to me. In general, I think they're not Sapient. However, I would like to think that Progenitus  is. So maybe for them I'll say, at least to my own head canon, Hydras are not sapient, but have a potential to become so.

As I said, though, that's all personal conjecture.   

Shameless Self-Promotion

These are the MTG Fiction pieces I have written:

Planes of the Dual-Walkers
Allo's Fortnight
The Butcher's Cleaver
Dead Man 'Walking
Showdown
Pariah
Deals and Devils
The Tears of the Djinn
Cromat Comes
Kiss of the Shorecerers
Numerous poems in The Poetry Plane
Magic: The Musical

Please read and comment! I love hearing people's thoughts and reactions to my work!

Fun fact, there have been wurms capable of speech in the past.
So most wurms are not sapient, but there are definitely some intelligent ones out there.

Scoria Wurm and Shivan Wurms in general, as well as Scaled Wurms of the Ice Age were all capable of speech.
On the flip side, we have things like Jungle Wurm which... aren't.

As for Hydras... it's important to note that Progenitus was more than a hydra.
It was an Avatar as well.
Dragons can be sapient, but the general impression is that the overwhelming majority either isn't, or is very barely. They represent the primal forces of mana, which while not incompatible with intelligence, tend towards a bestial state.
IMAGE(http://www.wizards.com/global/images/mtgcom_daily_mc52_picMain_en.jpg)IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/73821e61e013eadf56a8e4e2226d89a3.jpg?v=90000)
I think it's worth considering that its possible that a number of dragons have such completely different values than humans, that they very well might not act intelligent because being a big pissed-off burninator all the time is enough for them.

Sarkhan seems to think that's what most dragons are like.

...Although, wouldn't it be the juiciest irony if that simply wasn't true.

Most Ravnican dragons (other than Niv-Mizzet's species) seem dumb, going solely by the cards.



That is of course mainly because old Niv carefully sought out any dragon that was smart enough to be dangerous to him, and killed them. Basically, there are three kinds of dragons on Ravnica today: Niv-Mizzet, Niv-mizzet's clones, and dragons that Niv-Mizzet considered too dumb to be a threat.

In general, I'm with Thoctar. I think most dragons are sapient, they simply don't have much need for such silly things as "culture", "society", or "language". Complete waste of time, those things.

As for Hydras... it's important to note that Progenitus was more than a hydra.
It was an Avatar as well.



Fair point, but it gives me hope for Hydras, which I've always liked anyway...

Though of course sapient hydras pose a similar problem as two-headed creatures, only worse. Still, it's nothing fantasy hasn't dealt with in the past.

And then, of course, you have the mythological fact that hydras grow two new heads for each one cut off. So if a hydra is sapient, is each head a different personality? If so, does it grow a new persona with decapitation? Or does it grow two new personas, or is one the same as the severed head? Of course, maybe each head isn't it's own "person," and they all share a collective consciousness. Maybe, like the Mawcor, a hydra's brain is in its chest, and the heads are more like appendages.

So many questions... 

(By the way, sapient hydras means the possibility of Hydra planeswalkers. Just throwing that out there...)    

Shameless Self-Promotion

These are the MTG Fiction pieces I have written:

Planes of the Dual-Walkers
Allo's Fortnight
The Butcher's Cleaver
Dead Man 'Walking
Showdown
Pariah
Deals and Devils
The Tears of the Djinn
Cromat Comes
Kiss of the Shorecerers
Numerous poems in The Poetry Plane
Magic: The Musical

Please read and comment! I love hearing people's thoughts and reactions to my work!


(By the way, sapient hydras means the possibility of Hydra planeswalkers. Just throwing that out there...)    



I think we should just create an M:EM plane with sapient versions of every single creature and monster. Then whenever someone comes in and asks "Could X be a planeswalker?", we can answer "If they're from Y, they can."
Depends, of course, whereas hydras are mana manifestations or otherwise "created, not born".
IMAGE(http://www.wizards.com/global/images/mtgcom_daily_mc52_picMain_en.jpg)IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/73821e61e013eadf56a8e4e2226d89a3.jpg?v=90000)
I believe they are born, mostly because I imagine they have a crazily complex mating ritual that may or may not involve them ripping off one of their own heads...

Shameless Self-Promotion

These are the MTG Fiction pieces I have written:

Planes of the Dual-Walkers
Allo's Fortnight
The Butcher's Cleaver
Dead Man 'Walking
Showdown
Pariah
Deals and Devils
The Tears of the Djinn
Cromat Comes
Kiss of the Shorecerers
Numerous poems in The Poetry Plane
Magic: The Musical

Please read and comment! I love hearing people's thoughts and reactions to my work!

I believe they are born, mostly because I imagine they have a crazily complex mating ritual that may or may not involve them ripping off one of their own heads...



Well, if they can regrow heads, why can't they regrow bodies?

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.
I believe they are born, mostly because I imagine they have a crazily complex mating ritual that may or may not involve them ripping off one of their own heads...



Well, if they can regrow heads, why can't they regrow bodies?



I don't know, but some lizards on Earth can regrow tails, but the tails don't regrow lizards...

Or do they?  

Shameless Self-Promotion

These are the MTG Fiction pieces I have written:

Planes of the Dual-Walkers
Allo's Fortnight
The Butcher's Cleaver
Dead Man 'Walking
Showdown
Pariah
Deals and Devils
The Tears of the Djinn
Cromat Comes
Kiss of the Shorecerers
Numerous poems in The Poetry Plane
Magic: The Musical

Please read and comment! I love hearing people's thoughts and reactions to my work!

Maybe trolls regenerate like starfish?
Maybe trolls regenerate like starfish?



Maybe starfish regenerate like trolls. DUN DUN DUN!!
I believe they are born, mostly because I imagine they have a crazily complex mating ritual that may or may not involve them ripping off one of their own heads...



Well, if they can regrow heads, why can't they regrow bodies?



I don't know, but some lizards on Earth can regrow tails, but the tails don't regrow lizards...

Or do they?  



True, Really even humans grow hair and nails and such. But I assume (Based on my high school knowledge of physiology) the key thing is the brain. Whatever's chopped off will regrow from the part the brain is connected to. Whereas hydras kind of do the opposite traditionally. But I could tots see a hydra mating ritual where one of them rips the head off the other one, then that head sprouts into a little baby hydra or something.

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.
Honestly, I've already grown attached to the head canon concept that a Hydra's brain is not in it's head(s), like the Mawcor. There is no evidence for this, of course. I just like the thought...

Shameless Self-Promotion

These are the MTG Fiction pieces I have written:

Planes of the Dual-Walkers
Allo's Fortnight
The Butcher's Cleaver
Dead Man 'Walking
Showdown
Pariah
Deals and Devils
The Tears of the Djinn
Cromat Comes
Kiss of the Shorecerers
Numerous poems in The Poetry Plane
Magic: The Musical

Please read and comment! I love hearing people's thoughts and reactions to my work!

Fun fact, there have been wurms capable of speech in the past.
So most wurms are not sapient, but there are definitely some intelligent ones out there.

Scoria Wurm and Shivan Wurms in general, as well as Scaled Wurms of the Ice Age were all capable of speech.
On the flip side, we have things like Jungle Wurm which... aren't.

As for Hydras... it's important to note that Progenitus was more than a hydra.
It was an Avatar as well.


Is there anything to suggest that the Scoria hydras sing in anything more than a poetic sense? Are they scheming way down there in the bowels of the earth or are do they jsut make a lot of noise?

My story

Show
196639635 wrote:
Found it. From the moment TP died:
98201429 wrote:
TPmanW said as he fell to the ground dead, but not really he just has other stuff to do today. In the end, not even his karate could save him. But he died with a smile, knowing that his flavour text submission was totally going to win, because everyone has sympathy for dead people.
And the quotes he was going to use...
198015657 wrote:
196639635 wrote:
I can someone on a journey to the underworld and they won't know it until they arrive. On a side note, who needs a TPmanW zombie? Not really...
196398709 wrote:
You fools! I have killed your beloved TPmanW. Who stands to challenge me so?
Okay. How do I put things in my sig guys? Also yah thanks Dragons.
Explaining GMBanKevin
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198015657 wrote:
69511863 wrote:
I've also stumbled in in YMtC just now. Why are people still responding to GMwhat'shisnameBankaiKevin? He's completely of his rocker, unfriendly, arrogant and all-around terrible to a community. I understand that sometimes he has interesting ideas, but the sheer wrongness of all the rest doesn't seem to make up for that. He's the equivalent of a drunk guy at a party who's sometimes funny, but the rest of the time proclaims that if he had been in charge of the Nazis, the world would be a better, Jew-free place. You wouldn't put up with someone like that in real life, why would you on the internet? Wouldn't this be the perfect opportunity for "if we ignore it, it'll go away?"
People respond to Kevin/GM/Bankai for a number of reasons. Really, Kevin presernts the perfect s#!t strom of have-to-respond-to-this-guy's-posts. 1. He pairs originality (at least often enough) with warped design philosophy and and disregard for power balance. People's first reaction to GM is that if they just gave him a few pointers he could design some pretty good cards. Naturaully, he reacts negatively, leading to point 2. 2. He's a jerk and people come to hate him. This makes them post to take cheap jabs at Bankai. Since people pick on him we get point 3. 3. People feel sorry for him. Somebody usually sticks up for GM which keeps the conversation going and the post count climbing. I'm convinced that every YMTC'er goes through a phase where they try to help Kevin out and often make some sort of overture. Naturally, he reacts negatively, and that sends people right back to step 2. Everyone else is mystified, leading to step 4. 4. He's intriguing. His postings really have to be read to be beleived. The thought process behind Kevin's posts is so bwewildering that you can't help but be intrigued. Is he a troll? He acts in a remarkably trollish way, and seems to get little except annoyance for his efforts, but given the amount of effort he goes to, he couldn't really be doing it just to troll could he? Once you accept that Kevin is not a troll, you realize that something is wrong with him and start feel feel sympathetic. Return to step 3.
Fun fact, there have been wurms capable of speech in the past.
So most wurms are not sapient, but there are definitely some intelligent ones out there.

Scoria Wurm and Shivan Wurms in general, as well as Scaled Wurms of the Ice Age were all capable of speech.


Interesting. That strongly implies the Elder Land Wurms were sapient.
Please note: unless I'm trying to be sarcastic or humorous, most of my posts are very literal. Don't try to "read between the lines" because there is usually nothing there. I try not to imply anything when I write.
Maybe trolls regenerate like starfish?


Maybe starfish regenerate like trolls. DUN DUN DUN!!


You're wonderful.

Interesting. That strongly implies the Elder Land Wurms were sapient.


They were. They're the descendants of the losers of the Elder Dragon Wars.

They were. They're the descendants of the losers of the Elder Dragon Wars.



That's not true. They weren't the descendants, they WERE the losers of the Elder Dragon War.

Huh. I thought the title applied to more than the first generation.

Nah, anything past that first generation were Lesser Elders, which were distinct from Elders. After the second generation, there wasn't even enough left of the Elder bloodline to count it.

"Wurms were decadent dragons, so the legends said. Once mighty, long-ago elder wurms had, for cowardice or sloth, been stripped of their wings and memories and magic and cursed to live underground where no one would see them. To escape even a degraded dragon was an impossibility, went the wisdom". 


I'm inclined to believe that much of the sapience of Elder Land Wurms was taken away, at least the part concerning their true heritage.



Ed: Managed to cut away the part of the paragraph that would have sourced the quote, but this is ancient tribal knowledge of the wise elders of the catpeople to which Jedit Ojanen belongs, who's thinking this on page three of the book 'Jedit (Legends 2)'.

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With respect to our friend Jedit Ojanen  of Efrava, he's quoting from ancient legend of a very insular people. In this respect, at least, I'd have to call him an unreliable narrator.

But even if we accept Jedit's musings as fact, it still doesn't discount the original Elder Land Wurms' sapience. 

Shameless Self-Promotion

These are the MTG Fiction pieces I have written:

Planes of the Dual-Walkers
Allo's Fortnight
The Butcher's Cleaver
Dead Man 'Walking
Showdown
Pariah
Deals and Devils
The Tears of the Djinn
Cromat Comes
Kiss of the Shorecerers
Numerous poems in The Poetry Plane
Magic: The Musical

Please read and comment! I love hearing people's thoughts and reactions to my work!