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Am looking for general place to talk of Dungeons & Dragons game. Is this good place? What is 4e? Is it like Dungeons & Dragons?
This forum is specifically to discuss things related to the 4th edition version of Dungeons and Dragons (4e).  There is another forum for older versions, and there are forums that are not version specific for discussing DM issues or player issues.

OD&D, 1E and 2E challenged the player. 3E challenged the character, not the player. Now 4E takes it a step further by challenging a GROUP OF PLAYERS to work together as a TEAM. That's why I love 4E.

"Your ability to summon a horde of celestial superbeings at will is making my ... BMX skills look a bit redundant."

"People treat their lack of imagination as if it's the measure of what's silly. Which is silly." - Noon

"Keep On The Shadowfell" would be hailed as a brilliant, revolutionary triumph in game design if it were followed by the words "A Pathfinder Adventure Path by Paizo."

"Falling down is how you grow.  Staying down is how you die.  It's not what happens to you, it's what you do after it happens.”

Ah ,sorry. wrong place it seems. I have been away from game for awhile. Some of the neighborhood kids have heard about Dungeons & Dragons and want to play and they want me to DM! It is so confusing now. I am used to playing regular Dungeons & Dragons, not sure what is meant by 4th edition or the ADD&D they talk of in Previous Editions. They do not make just regular Dungeons & Dragons any more? Seen they have Dungeons & Dragons Next. So confusing, is that like next generation? Like Star Trek?
'Just regular D&D' isn't really a thing any more.  There are about 6 editions of the game (depending on how you break things down), each of them is very different.

You can find out which edition you're playing quite easily if you can scan the front cover of your rule book, one of the knowledgeable folks on the forum would be able to tell you.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Ah ,sorry. wrong place it seems. I have been away from game for awhile. Some of the neighborhood kids have heard about Dungeons & Dragons and want to play and they want me to DM! It is so confusing now. I am used to playing regular Dungeons & Dragons, not sure what is meant by 4th edition or the ADD&D they talk of in Previous Editions. They do not make just regular Dungeons & Dragons any more? Seen they have Dungeons & Dragons Next. So confusing, is that like next generation? Like Star Trek?



 D&D would generally be BECMI, 3rd or 4th ed. AD&D is 1st and 2nd ed and has been out of print for 13 years and 23 or so for 1st edition.

Original D&D (OD&D)
BECMI D&D (Basic Expert Masters Companion Immortal)
AD&D ("1st ed" not technically but yeah)
AD&D 2nd ed 
3rd Ed (including 3.5)
4th ed 

6 editions 7 if you count 3.5 or7/8 if you count D&DN which is just a playtest.  BECMI and AD&D overlapped. AD&D was more popular and BECMI went out of print. AD&D was more complex and had things like rangers and paladins which BECMI lacked.
Howdy DragonMaster81!

You can find the old "Basic" version of the rules (specifically the Basic and Expert sets edited by Tom Moldvay originally released in 1981) on www.dndclassics.com.

D&D Basic Set Rulebook
D&D Expert Set Rulebook

Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 1st Edition, 2nd Edition, and D&D 3rd Edition (the 3.5 update version) were all recently reprinted in premium collector's editions.

1st Edition Player's Handbook
1st Edition Dungeon Master's Guide
1st Edition Monster Manual

2nd Edition Player's Handbook
2nd Edition Dungeon Master's Guide
2nd Edition Monstrous Manual

3.5 Player's Handbook
3.5 Dungeon Master's Guide
3.5 Monster Manual

You can try out D&D 4th Edition for free with the following downloads from www.dndclassics.com

D&D RPG Starter Set Quickstart
H1: Keep on the Shadowfell (also includes a Quickstart guide)
Khyber's Harvest (an adventure set in the Eberron Campaign Setting)

Finally, the Original Dungeons & Dragons RPG, first printed in 1974, is getting a deluxe reprint in November of this year.

Original Dungeons & Dragons RPG

Hope that helps and have fun!                                

All around helpful simian


 "Regular" D&D, from the context of the original post, is probably either going to be the Basic set from the early 80's or the 3.0 rules, which were the first modern version to just say "Dungeons & Dragons" on the cover...
 Probably the latter, since they said "away from game for awhile" and not "many years" or "long time", and were confused by AD&D references.

Show

I am the Magic Man.

(Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.)

 

I am the Lawnmower Man.

(I AM GOD HERE!)

 

I am the Skull God.

(Koo Koo Ka Choo)

 

There are reasons they call me Mad...

Ah ,sorry. wrong place it seems. I have been away from game for awhile. Some of the neighborhood kids have heard about Dungeons & Dragons and want to play and they want me to DM! It is so confusing now. I am used to playing regular Dungeons & Dragons, not sure what is meant by 4th edition or the ADD&D they talk of in Previous Editions. They do not make just regular Dungeons & Dragons any more? Seen they have Dungeons & Dragons Next. So confusing, is that like next generation? Like Star Trek?



 D&D would generally be BECMI, 3rd or 4th ed. AD&D is 1st and 2nd ed and has been out of print for 13 years and 23 or so for 1st edition.

Original D&D (OD&D)
BECMI D&D (Basic Expert Masters Companion Immortal)
AD&D ("1st ed" not technically but yeah)
AD&D 2nd ed 
3rd Ed (including 3.5)
4th ed 

6 editions 7 if you count 3.5 or7/8 if you count D&DN which is just a playtest.  BECMI and AD&D overlapped. AD&D was more popular and BECMI went out of print. AD&D was more complex and had things like rangers and paladins which BECMI lacked.



You left off 2.5, or 2nd Edition Revised, or whatever they called it. Cant say I blame you, Im trying really hard to forget that myself. I guess it could be counted in with 2e, but it was definitely different enough that I would count it as a seperate edition. And  I would count 3.5 seperate as well, sure it was pretty much the same, but they did copy/paste alot of the 3e stuff and expected you to buy it again, so yeah I count it as a seperate edition.
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
 I assume you are counting the Players Option books as 2.5? I did not count them as they came out 1995/96 and AD&D trundled on another 4 years and they were erm optional. My 2nd ed stuff from 1998/99 has nothing of the players option in them although my TSR silver anniversary boxed set does have stripped down AD&D rules as it is an introductory box.
Yes, the Player's Option, thats what I was talking about. I remember flipping through it at the local gaming shop back in the day and saw that they split up ability scores into 3 sub-catagories, basically giving you 18 stats, I was like uhm, no thanks.
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
Seems to me the most useful breakdown is really in terms of overall design ethic and a fairly strict compatibility, which yields you:

1. B/X - I will lump "Old D&D" -the original 3 books and supplements- in here as it uses the same numbers and the same "race as class" concept effectively. Holmes Basic for instance is numerically exactly compatible with the original rules, though later versions have some very slight changes and of course the last couple versions added a LOT of new stuff.

2. AD&D - In all its minor variations an AD&D character is still practically unchanged from 1e PHB of 1978 and the end of 2e 20 years later. Several different optional systems and a number of 'kits' and such were added in later years, but your basic unadorned 1978 Fighter is exactly and perfectly numerically identical to a basic 1998 2e Fighter build in every particular.

3. 3e - The d20 system D&D, including 3.5 and in a practical sense you can even lump PF in there, as again all of these are highly compatible and many characters can be built in exactly the same way choice-by-choice. Admittedly some minor differences exist, but they are internally far less than the differences between 3.x and other versions of D&D.

4. 4e - No real comment needed.

DDN will presumably form yet another branch, though that remains to be seen.
That is not dead which may eternal lie
Yes, the Player's Option, thats what I was talking about. I remember flipping through it at the local gaming shop back in the day and saw that they split up ability scores into 3 sub-catagories, basically giving you 18 stats, I was like uhm, no thanks.

Was that the one with the picture of a barbarian with a horribly broken and mangled arm on the cover? 

Nut Eating Resident Sociopathic Eye Forker 2346-strong Squirrel leigon of DOOM Squirrel Overlord of the House of Trolls Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber. ~Plato Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy. ~Ernest Benn The Democrats are the party that says government will make you smarter, taller, richer, and remove the crabgrass on your lawn. The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it. ~P.J. O'Rourke "I actually held public office and I left the only way a politician should, in handcuffs." ~ Chael Sonnen It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it! ~ Upton Sinclair Kicked Adam and Eve out of Missouri. Wears flip-flops in church buildings. Official troller of Kolob.
This is not a trapp
My temple name is Elohim. What is your super-secret temple name?
Riddle me this
How can two people with physical bodies make spirit babies?
*Two points about this gag. Firstly, every writer of anything makes typos and I’m no different. It’s “there but for the grace of God go I” rather than schadenfreude here. The second is something called Muphry’s Law (no, it is Muphry’s, not Murphy’s) which states that any piece correcting or laughing at a typo, spelling or grammatical mistake will contain at least one worse than the original being complained of.
Yes, the Player's Option, thats what I was talking about. I remember flipping through it at the local gaming shop back in the day and saw that they split up ability scores into 3 sub-catagories, basically giving you 18 stats, I was like uhm, no thanks.

Was that the one with the picture of a barbarian with a horribly broken and mangled arm on the cover? 




 There were 4 of them.

2.5
IMAGE(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b534/Worldoftanks/ADampD1_zpsd934eb0f.jpg)

 They were all optional and self contained though.

Spells and Magic.

Variant spellcasting, options for other tradiitons, 18 wizard subclasses, new spels, errata to spell lists and speheres+ lots more. Quite useful book overall.

High Level Campaigns
2nd ed Epic level Handbook. A bit useless due to its nature. Had some very useful rules for the DM to power up monsters including giving them ability scores.

Combat and Tactics Perhaps the best one in useful content. new weapons, fighting styles, grid based combat, weapon grand mastery, etc.

Skills and Powers
Perhaps the most sandbox and modular one. Had rules for rebuilding the races, rebuilding the classes, the horrible sub attributes, simplified kits, a new skill system similar in some ways to 3rd ed, and even advantage/disadvantage mechanic.


 
OK yeah, you bring up a good point, they were all optional ,but when they reprinted the second editon Player's Handbook and Dungeon Master's guide they used the same look and typeset as the Player's Options books, so I just lump them all together under 2.5, even though the PHB and DMG were largely unchanged IIRC.
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
 I think the 2nd PHB beat Skills and powers out the door but I'm not 100% sure. I acutally like the presentation of the books as I hate banners/text going through the art. The art is also better than the 3rd ed plats (most of them). Probably helps that the artist is Easley though although C&T looks a bit odd.
Ok, fine, fine, so the Players Options books used the reprinted PHB font, my point being that they looked different and scared me.
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
Yes, the Player's Option, thats what I was talking about. I remember flipping through it at the local gaming shop back in the day and saw that they split up ability scores into 3 sub-catagories, basically giving you 18 stats, I was like uhm, no thanks.

Was that the one with the picture of a barbarian with a horribly broken and mangled arm on the cover? 




 There were 4 of them.

2.5


 They were all optional and self contained though.

Spells and Magic.

Variant spellcasting, options for other tradiitons, 18 wizard subclasses, new spels, errata to spell lists and speheres+ lots more. Quite useful book overall.

High Level Campaigns
2nd ed Epic level Handbook. A bit useless due to its nature. Had some very useful rules for the DM to power up monsters including giving them ability scores.

Combat and Tactics Perhaps the best one in useful content. new weapons, fighting styles, grid based combat, weapon grand mastery, etc.

Skills and Powers
Perhaps the most sandbox and modular one. Had rules for rebuilding the races, rebuilding the classes, the horrible sub attributes, simplified kits, a new skill system similar in some ways to 3rd ed, and even advantage/disadvantage mechanic.


 

I meant this terrible book



Nut Eating Resident Sociopathic Eye Forker 2346-strong Squirrel leigon of DOOM Squirrel Overlord of the House of Trolls Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber. ~Plato Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy. ~Ernest Benn The Democrats are the party that says government will make you smarter, taller, richer, and remove the crabgrass on your lawn. The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it. ~P.J. O'Rourke "I actually held public office and I left the only way a politician should, in handcuffs." ~ Chael Sonnen It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it! ~ Upton Sinclair Kicked Adam and Eve out of Missouri. Wears flip-flops in church buildings. Official troller of Kolob.
This is not a trapp
My temple name is Elohim. What is your super-secret temple name?
Riddle me this
How can two people with physical bodies make spirit babies?
*Two points about this gag. Firstly, every writer of anything makes typos and I’m no different. It’s “there but for the grace of God go I” rather than schadenfreude here. The second is something called Muphry’s Law (no, it is Muphry’s, not Murphy’s) which states that any piece correcting or laughing at a typo, spelling or grammatical mistake will contain at least one worse than the original being complained of.
It was pretty much the same as 



wasnt it? 
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
Kind of. They changed a few things, I just can't1 remember exactly what it was.


1
Or more likely, my brain just doesn't want to remember the horrors contain in that book.
 
Nut Eating Resident Sociopathic Eye Forker 2346-strong Squirrel leigon of DOOM Squirrel Overlord of the House of Trolls Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber. ~Plato Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy. ~Ernest Benn The Democrats are the party that says government will make you smarter, taller, richer, and remove the crabgrass on your lawn. The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it. ~P.J. O'Rourke "I actually held public office and I left the only way a politician should, in handcuffs." ~ Chael Sonnen It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it! ~ Upton Sinclair Kicked Adam and Eve out of Missouri. Wears flip-flops in church buildings. Official troller of Kolob.
This is not a trapp
My temple name is Elohim. What is your super-secret temple name?
Riddle me this
How can two people with physical bodies make spirit babies?
*Two points about this gag. Firstly, every writer of anything makes typos and I’m no different. It’s “there but for the grace of God go I” rather than schadenfreude here. The second is something called Muphry’s Law (no, it is Muphry’s, not Murphy’s) which states that any piece correcting or laughing at a typo, spelling or grammatical mistake will contain at least one worse than the original being complained of.
Thank you all for replies, I did not no that there are so many different Dungeons & Dragons! Why they make so many? The one I am remembering say Dungeons & Dragons on it, it have man on horse running from giant purple worm and it say rules companion or something on it?
Sounds like the Rules Cyclopedia for BECMI. Came out in 1990 or so and it is a compilation of the basic, expert, master and companion rules. The cover artist is Jeff Easley who painted those 2 PHB posted above and the 4 players options I posted. Is it this one?
IMAGE(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b534/Worldoftanks/Rules_Cyclopedia_cover_zps37feb3ba.jpg)

OD&D
BECMI (sounds like this one)
1st
2nd
3rd
4th

 You have the BECMI version and that book is worth around $80-$100. It is actually one of the best D&D books ever published as you more or less have a whole edition in your hands as it has the PHB, DMG and MM in one book.

 It is compatable with these adventures.
www.rpgnow.com/product/110946/B1-12-Basi... 

 If you actually want to try it maybe buy 1 adventure for $5 and I can recommend B2,B3, B4 and B5. In the weekend we have been playing through a converted B5 adventure.  A version of B3 is actually free and can be downloaded here. 

web.archive.org/web/20080506030618/http:...

 It is known as B3 Palace of the Silver Princess. If you print double sided it is only 16-18 pages or so.

 BECMI is one of the earlier D&D and that book you have originated in the 70's. It has aged a bit better than AD&D from the same era IMHO and is still fun to play and it is very easy to learn/run. Have a look at B3 for free and see what you think. Since 2000 D&D has used the d20 sytem though. I was reading the rules cyclopedia 2 days ago and it is not hard to figure out.

 I'm always after older stuff as well so PM me if you do not want the book or want modern versions of D&D. I have 13 copies of the PHB of various editions if I lived near you I would offer you the 3rd and 4th core books for that book. 
Yes, the Player's Option, thats what I was talking about. I remember flipping through it at the local gaming shop back in the day and saw that they split up ability scores into 3 sub-catagories, basically giving you 18 stats, I was like uhm, no thanks.

Was that the one with the picture of a barbarian with a horribly broken and mangled arm on the cover? 




 There were 4 of them.

2.5


 They were all optional and self contained though.

Spells and Magic.

Variant spellcasting, options for other tradiitons, 18 wizard subclasses, new spels, errata to spell lists and speheres+ lots more. Quite useful book overall.

High Level Campaigns
2nd ed Epic level Handbook. A bit useless due to its nature. Had some very useful rules for the DM to power up monsters including giving them ability scores.

Combat and Tactics Perhaps the best one in useful content. new weapons, fighting styles, grid based combat, weapon grand mastery, etc.

Skills and Powers
Perhaps the most sandbox and modular one. Had rules for rebuilding the races, rebuilding the classes, the horrible sub attributes, simplified kits, a new skill system similar in some ways to 3rd ed, and even advantage/disadvantage mechanic.


 

I meant this terrible book






 Thats not a terrible book (I have both versions of the 2nd ed PHB). Looks better than the front of 3rd, 4th and PF although I like Easley art and detest WAR.


 As to the number of editions D&D is 39 years old and very 8-10 years they tend to release a new edition although WoTC is about to release 3 versions in 13 years as they like the core book crack.
 Here is most of the versions of D&D+ some retroclones stuff.

IMAGE(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b534/Worldoftanks/PHBs_zps205bc383.jpg)

1st-4th ed. Excludes OD&D and BECMI.

Howz that Myth & Magic? dont think Ive heard of that one. 
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
Thank you all for replies, I did not no that there are so many different Dungeons & Dragons! Why they make so many? The one I am remembering say Dungeons & Dragons on it, it have man on horse running from giant purple worm and it say rules companion or something on it?



I think a lot of people are asking this very same question :D
Howz that Myth & Magic? dont think Ive heard of that one. 

It's basically a 2e Pathfinder. Nothing more really. Though if you've never played 2e and wanna play it and own new books its cool.

Come to 4ENCLAVE for a fan based 4th Edition Community.

 

Games I Play:

 

D&D 4e - D&D 3.0  - Pathfinder - AD&D 2e - Call of Cthulhu - Legend of the Five Rings - 13th Age - World of Darkness - PTU - D&D B/X

Why they make so many?



Because once a system has been out for several years, the people that are playing it already own the books.  The company still needs to make money, and people are not buying books, so they make a new system, with new books, so they can make money.  Yes, it's kinda silly, I agree, especially when a lot of the systems are nearly identical, up until 3rd, 4th and 5th.  At least with 3rd and 4th there were drastic enough changes it the system it warranted the new books.  Also, with 4th, they really tried to "rebrand" the game and go after a different target audience.  It also helped split the fanbase, which it appears 5th will do even further.
Howz that Myth & Magic? dont think Ive heard of that one. 



 I like it. Its basically d20 2nd ed. my players were stuggling with THACO and ass backwards mechanics. d20ise 2nd ed and they understand it. Also tidied up various rules in 2nd ed and level limits, racial restrictions etc are out the window. This is the freebie one.

www.rpgnow.com/product/100492/Myth-%26-M...

 
Howz that Myth & Magic? dont think Ive heard of that one. 



 I like it. Its basically d20 2nd ed. my players were stuggling with THACO and ass backwards mechanics. d20ise 2nd ed and they understand it. Also tidied up various rules in 2nd ed and level limits, racial restrictions etc are out the window. This is the freebie one.

www.rpgnow.com/product/100492/Myth-%26-M...

 



Sounds interesting, Thanks for the link, definitely going to have to check that out. I'll be perfectly honest, I always hated THAC0, that was one of the first things I houseruled out of 2e/1e, along with racial limits, so this sounds right up my alley.
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
I paid $12 for the full on one after looking at the preview version which slighty different to the main one. It uses BAB instead of THACO but it is just the old AD&D numbers flipped around and thieves got some love. Mult atacks are similar to AD&D except missile weapons no longer have a RoF and they nerfed longswords. Skills replace proficiencies and are optional,  the game has weapon proficiency, and an optional talent section that kind of resembles feats but there is a lot less of them and they are extra optional so the GM can decide to use talents and then ban any he doesn't like.
Sounds like the Rules Cyclopedia for BECMI. Came out in 1990 or so and it is a compilation of the basic, expert, master and companion rules. The cover artist is Jeff Easley who painted those 2 PHB posted above and the 4 players options I posted. Is it this one?


OD&D
BECMI (sounds like this one)
1st
2nd
3rd
4th

 You have the BECMI version and that book is worth around $80-$100. It is actually one of the best D&D books ever published as you more or less have a whole edition in your hands as it has the PHB, DMG and MM in one book.

 It is compatable with these adventures.
www.rpgnow.com/product/110946/B1-12-Basi... 

 If you actually want to try it maybe buy 1 adventure for $5 and I can recommend B2,B3, B4 and B5. In the weekend we have been playing through a converted B5 adventure.  A version of B3 is actually free and can be downloaded here. 

web.archive.org/web/20080506030618/http:...

 It is known as B3 Palace of the Silver Princess. If you print double sided it is only 16-18 pages or so.

 BECMI is one of the earlier D&D and that book you have originated in the 70's. It has aged a bit better than AD&D from the same era IMHO and is still fun to play and it is very easy to learn/run. Have a look at B3 for free and see what you think. Since 2000 D&D has used the d20 sytem though. I was reading the rules cyclopedia 2 days ago and it is not hard to figure out.

 I'm always after older stuff as well so PM me if you do not want the book or want modern versions of D&D. I have 13 copies of the PHB of various editions if I lived near you I would offer you the 3rd and 4th core books for that book. 



Yes that is it! Thank you so much! I can not remember the name of, It cost 80 dollars? I do no have that kind of money! lol. I was hoping I can find used copy cheap. I never had the book, guy who was DM had it, but that is the D&D I remember, and had fun. I have looked at the 3e, it seems very similar to what I remember, but the 4e seems way different than D&D, everyone advance same and have same attack bonus every other level? I am not sure I like that, I like the classes to be different!



Yes that is it! Thank you so much! I can not remember the name of, It cost 80 dollars? I do no have that kind of money! lol. I was hoping I can find used copy cheap. I never had the book, guy who was DM had it, but that is the D&D I remember, and had fun. I have looked at the 3e, it seems very similar to what I remember, but the 4e seems way different than D&D, everyone advance same and have same attack bonus every other level? I am not sure I like that, I like the classes to be different!




You should definitely go check out the older edition forums, as people in this forum like and play 4e. (Thats why it is called 4e General Discussion):

community.wizards.com/go/forum/view/7588...

You also do not need to spend 80 bucks on the Rules Compendium. Check out this free "retroclone" of it. It isnt exact, but beats the hell out of spending 80 bucks:

www.gratisgames.webspace.virginmedia.com...



Good luck!


You can also find stuff here.

Free
www.rpgnow.com/product/64331/Labyrinth-L...

With art and $5.95

www.rpgnow.com/product/64332/Labyrinth-L... 

Very close to the original. Also the old adventures.

www.rpgnow.com/index.php?cPath=9730_9736

 

You can also find stuff here.

Free
www.rpgnow.com/product/64331/Labyrinth-L...

With art and $5.95

www.rpgnow.com/product/64332/Labyrinth-L... 

Very close to the original. Also the old adventures.

www.rpgnow.com/index.php?cPath=9730_9736

 



Actually, Labyrinth Lord is a clone of the '81 Moldvay/Cook Basic/Expert ("B/X") sets. Though they share many of the same rules and mechanics with the Rules Cyclopedia, a lot of things he might expect, such as the optional Mystic class and the Weapon Mastery stuff, only appear in Dark Dungeons. It is the only retroclone to specifically focus on the Rules Cyclopedia (which is more or less the later Mentzer sets with a few changes).
Not familiar with Dark Dungeons but I had been looking through LL and spotted the odd change like Clerics getting spells at level 1.

 One of my friends is looking at DMing for the 1st time and I was going to gift him a printed out copy of LL and get him some of the old B1-B12 adventures as his sister and her friends want to play, would you recommend DD instead?


 One of my friends is looking at DMing for the 1st time and I was going to gift him a printed out copy of LL and get him some of the old B1-B12 adventures as his sister and her friends want to play, would you recommend DD instead?



Well, I personally prefer Labyrinth Lord, as B/X was a lot simpler and "cleaner" imo than the Rules Cyclopedia. I think the "B/X" system was probably the easiest to understand out of any edition next to 2e, and David "Zeb" Cook wrote both 2e and the "X" side of B/X, so that makes sense. Its really easy for new DMs. Don't get me wrong, I like the Rules Cyclopedia, its just a lot more complicated than B/X.

Labyrinth Lord does make a few slight changes to B/X, Clerics getting a spell at level one being one of them. Saving throw numbers also vary a little bit, but its pretty damn close. Labyrinth Lord + old B series modules = an awesome time. Your friend will love you.
I would like to give him a copy of the rules cyclopedia but its a bt beyond my means atm/unavailable. 

 LL seems to have made it into a 20 level progression as well unlike 14 for Moldvay and 36 for the Rues Cyclopedia. BiTD we only had the basic, expert and RC books and B2-B4+X1. Took us a year to get to level 4 playing 1.5 hours a week. Think I'll buy them, print them off in colour get them professionally bound up and gift them to him. IDK if he will run them but he has never DMed before and is only familiar with 3rd/4th ed.  
Great links guys, but shouldnt we be steering this guy toward 4e? 

I mean seriously dude, try it for free!  

Yes its different, but dont let that scare you, embrace it! Thats one of the things I like about 4e is that its different, its not just the same ol' game. ANd really I think 4e is easier for new players to pick up on, everythings pretty clear about what you get and such and such level or what such and such power does. THAC0 is a little harder to explain to a newb. 
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
Yes, subtraction is so much more difficult than addition.
Resident Prophet of the OTTer.

Section Six Soldier

Front Door of the House of Trolls

[b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]

Yes, subtraction is so much more difficult than addition.



Im not saying one is harder than the other, Im saying its easier to explain to a begining player to roll a d20 then add such and such bonuses, than it is explaining THAC0. I'll admit I hated THAC0, it always confused me, I always made a little THAC0 chart on my character sheet.
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
dood, I learned how to play D&D during 2e and I learned with two friends who were the same age as me (12) and had the same amount of experience with D&D (none).  Both of them suck at math (one failed Algebra twice) and, to be honest, I'm not a whole lot better - it was always my weakest subject (er, aside from penmanship - and yes, the Catholic school I had to go to from K-5 actually considered it for a grade).  I've always said - and always will - that if us three morons could decode the Gygaxian nonsense (fun nonsense) that is 2e, anyone can.  It's really not that difficult.  Like, at all.  It's just as easy to explain THAC0 as it is BAB.
Resident Prophet of the OTTer.

Section Six Soldier

Front Door of the House of Trolls

[b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]

Well, there's also that.    Silver seems like he could be a PEGger so he oughtta give it a go.  Couldn't hurt.
Resident Prophet of the OTTer.

Section Six Soldier

Front Door of the House of Trolls

[b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]