Why does everyone hate Act of War?

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It seems that 70% of the people here think this is the worst deck in DotP 2013.  It might not be top-tier like Sephulcral Strength or Goblin Gangland, but it's still fairly fast and has a fair share of solid creatures.  This deck is really made to counter fast aggro decks with limited control like Goblins, with it's emphasis on defense, life gain, and first strike.  Frankly, it's my favorite out of the five Ravnica Deck Pack decks, mainly for it's speed and ability to take aggro like a boss.

Why does everyone dislike it?  Is it because it's too defensive?  Too reliant on creatures?  Plays like Strength of Stone from DotP 2012?
It's more pity than hate.

Wizards: If it isn't game design, we can't do it right. Frankly, we're kind of shaky on the game design sometimes too.

Probably because it has something like 10 cards missing ;)

WotC doesn't care about flavor. Their forum is the only place where an ORC can kill a troll...

Lost around 120 posts in the forum migration

Post #1000 on Feb 02, 2013

Post #2000 on Sep 04, 2013

Did you play red/white in 2012? That's why.
Aggro Act of War relies heavily on Rally the Righteous for damage, except many other aggro decks are either red or white, so Radiance becomes a big hindrance in those matchups.

Mid-range Act of War runs out of removal too quickly, and doesn't have enough tools vs. big creature decks.

too defensive? This is one of my all in blitz decks, I must be keeping different cards though.  Win on turn 4 teamed with odric in 2hg when we both hit curve..turn 4 rally or gaurdians pledge and double strike or battle cry and haste pumper dude... or. or.etc. Gives talrand nightmares and when go first even deed and wrath are too slow...

Its fun teamed with berserkers too. 

I like the deck but I don't see it as defensive.  TBH I think thats why people 'here don't like it.  Dudes like control around here or so i'm told... 
It's generally too slow; it doesn't consistently apply enough early pressure to justify its lack of solid removal on larger threats.  Most of its bombs are designed to keep up pressure that it doesn't always bring in the first place - aside from a Balefire Liege that somehow stays on the board for a while or a perfectly timed Sunblast Angel, they're rarely going to turn around a losing game.  4x Rally the Righteous can make the deck competitive in certain matchups, but they have huge drawbacks in the meta and the deck isn't oriented enough toward first strike or putting lots of weenies on the board to consistently take full advantage of them.  It needs some better (and more) early threats with more value and self-sufficience and it needs a few better removal options to bring it to a more competitive state.

too defensive? This is one of my all in blitz decks, I must be keeping different cards though.  Win on turn 4 teamed with odric in 2hg when we both hit curve..turn 4 rally or gaurdians pledge and double strike or battle cry and haste pumper dude... or. or.etc. Gives talrand nightmares and when go first even deed and wrath are too slow...

Its fun teamed with berserkers too. 

I like the deck but I don't see it as defensive.  TBH I think thats why people 'here don't like it.  Dudes like control around here or so i'm told... 



This thread is more or less talking about its 1v1 effectiveness.  Rally becomes much more practical and powerful when paired with something like weenie Peacekeepers or Goblins in 2HG.
It's not the worst 1v1 deck.  Mill-focused Dream Puppets still holds that title (and yet, people are still trying to win with it - thanks for playing Howling Mine, guys!).  Rogue's Gallery is also not so hot, though it's not necessarily strictly worse than AoW, it just has different problems and bad matchups.

Berserker's Rage, though, is the worst deck.  Unlike Dream Puppets, there is just no way to build BR to be a consistent contender.  Either you win big or you lose big and it's pretty much up to the shuffler.

I've been doing alright with AoW and I don't run Rally the Righteous at all.  Getting an early Glory of Warfare helps a lot.
It's not the worst 1v1 deck.  Mill-focused Dream Puppets still holds that title (and yet, people are still trying to win with it - thanks for playing Howling Mine, guys!).  Rogue's Gallery is also not so hot, though it's not necessarily strictly worse than AoW, it just has different problems and bad matchups.

Berserker's Rage, though, is the worst deck.  Unlike Dream Puppets, there is just no way to build BR to be a consistent contender.  Either you win big or you lose big and it's pretty much up to the shuffler.

I've been doing alright with AoW and I don't run Rally the Righteous at all.  Getting an early Glory of Warfare helps a lot.



Geg!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry to disagree, you know but a focused turbo mill is very powerful against anything other than a concentrated aggro deck like PK (can make them lose some key cards than can interrupt the power/toughness, though) and GM. OD can be a bit of a problem because of graveyard recursion.
Other than that, as a turbo mill deck with, yes, Howling Mine is a strong 1v1.

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

Mastergear_Owen's take on Magic 2014 Campaign.

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You know what I've got more issues. Whats up with the story in this game? The adverts said I was going to team up with Chandra and we were going to kick butt and chew bubblegum across the planes on a revenge campaign against some... guy she knew I guess? Who's Ramaz anyway? What do I get instead? I beat Chandra like 2 minutes in with a mono-green stompy thing Garruk gave me (why does he keep giving all these new planeswalkers his deck) and then I spent like 5 hours jumping from plane to plane picking up random nicknacks for her mantlepiece while she sits back back doing her nails or something. I was thrown in jail! I got hit by a Roil Storm twice! Do you know how many rats are on Ravnica, Chandra? All of them! All of the rats! All of the rats eating me!

Then we go kick her Ex's bearded-screaming-butt and what does she do to help? Nothing! She throws of the occasional fire ball and spends her time trying not to freeze to death. You should have worn pants Chandra. While we're on the subject what happened to your shoes? You had like Steelies on. Steelies are cool. Now your running around with stupid boots with like 5-inch heels? Thats not appropriate footware for Planeswalking! That's not appropriate footware for normal walking! At least Liliana is doing it for the whole 'evil is sexy' thing and can summon undead to carry her when she breaks her ankle. What are you going to do ride a Phoenix? Its made of fire! You'll fall right through! Man I should have gone Planeswalking with Liliana - yeah she'd crack my head open with a rock 5 minutes in and raise my corpse to serve her but at least we could have gone dancing!

Now with more original content and open bar!

https://www.youtube.com/user/thedevilwuster

It's not the worst 1v1 deck.  Mill-focused Dream Puppets still holds that title (and yet, people are still trying to win with it - thanks for playing Howling Mine, guys!).  Rogue's Gallery is also not so hot, though it's not necessarily strictly worse than AoW, it just has different problems and bad matchups.

Berserker's Rage, though, is the worst deck.  Unlike Dream Puppets, there is just no way to build BR to be a consistent contender.  Either you win big or you lose big and it's pretty much up to the shuffler.

I've been doing alright with AoW and I don't run Rally the Righteous at all.  Getting an early Glory of Warfare helps a lot.



Geg!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry to disagree, you know but a focused turbo mill is very powerful against anything other than a concentrated aggro deck like PK (can make them lose some key cards than can interrupt the power/toughness, though) and GM. OD can be a bit of a problem because of graveyard recursion.
Other than that, as a turbo mill deck with, yes, Howling Mine is a strong 1v1.



I run Dream Puppets mill oriented, but without any cards that draw cards for your opponent except for both copies of Prosperity.

Also, I like Act of War. It's a pretty cool deck.

"People are like sausages: it's what's under the skin that's important... so poke them with a fork periodically."

"Lif is too short."

Well, then let's just say that Turbo Mill takes a very skilled player to win with, because I've literally only been milled to death twice all year, and I face off against DP constantly.

Meanwhile, the control build I run with almost no mill works great - much better than I expected it to.  It's become one of my favorite decks in the past few months, in fact!

because all of the noobs dont know how to use it
because all of the noobs dont know how to use it




So true. Just hopped on to test that theory and hit a mirror right of the bat.
Swords on a Crab and Wolf token mills to 0.

"In the right hands"

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

Mastergear_Owen's take on Magic 2014 Campaign.

Show
You know what I've got more issues. Whats up with the story in this game? The adverts said I was going to team up with Chandra and we were going to kick butt and chew bubblegum across the planes on a revenge campaign against some... guy she knew I guess? Who's Ramaz anyway? What do I get instead? I beat Chandra like 2 minutes in with a mono-green stompy thing Garruk gave me (why does he keep giving all these new planeswalkers his deck) and then I spent like 5 hours jumping from plane to plane picking up random nicknacks for her mantlepiece while she sits back back doing her nails or something. I was thrown in jail! I got hit by a Roil Storm twice! Do you know how many rats are on Ravnica, Chandra? All of them! All of the rats! All of the rats eating me!

Then we go kick her Ex's bearded-screaming-butt and what does she do to help? Nothing! She throws of the occasional fire ball and spends her time trying not to freeze to death. You should have worn pants Chandra. While we're on the subject what happened to your shoes? You had like Steelies on. Steelies are cool. Now your running around with stupid boots with like 5-inch heels? Thats not appropriate footware for Planeswalking! That's not appropriate footware for normal walking! At least Liliana is doing it for the whole 'evil is sexy' thing and can summon undead to carry her when she breaks her ankle. What are you going to do ride a Phoenix? Its made of fire! You'll fall right through! Man I should have gone Planeswalking with Liliana - yeah she'd crack my head open with a rock 5 minutes in and raise my corpse to serve her but at least we could have gone dancing!

Now with more original content and open bar!

https://www.youtube.com/user/thedevilwuster

Aside: In a mill-based DP, there's a high chance of winning via damage from pumped Jace's Phantasms anyway. At least, I run it mill style and usually win via damage just because those flying 5/5's swinging in is hard to overcome, especially if you get them pumped turn 2/3.

I want to like Act of War, but if your tempo is ruined in any way at all, you're completely unable to answer the threats of other decks. The deck has so few tide changing cards, if you ever start to slip to the losing side, it's very hard to recover.
I play turbo mill DP a lot, and win a good bit.  But Steam prefers OD/SS/MM generally, which it's great against.  If the opponent is Gobs or PK though, forget it.
Won like every game with Turbo-Mill (Howling Mine helps so much) that wasnt vs Goblins, Pk, Yeva (with turn 3 Beast Within on your land->counter, turn 4 Natural Order -> Terrastadon aka 1 Land, Turn 5 Slime and subotimal draw) or another Jace (who starts first and lays down Jace's Solution on turn 2 and or somehow got the sword out and attached).
What is a good control build decklist? (was trying around a bit but none of them got me the results I had with turbo mill)

@garden: Yeah and even the 90 card goblin player has without fail a screwdriver in his opening hand and you got no counter or he starts first.

@topic: Most of it has already been said. The missing 10 cards. Good vs Aggro but not as good as the previous version. Boring to play so that the 2009 version (yeah, it was more midrangey with green) seemed better.

Could have used some cards like Aurelia, the Warleader, Hero of Oxid Ridge, Assemble the Legion, Hellrider, Lightning Mauler. Quite some good card came out with RtR like Assemble or Boros Reckoner or Mizzium Mortars.

Absurdity, n. A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion.

 

This is the Dream Puppets build I settled on, it performs like a champ:

erdana; font-size:12px; border-collapse:collapse" cellspacing="0" border="0">"Controllo"61 Cards. 25 Lands (25).A library for Dream Puppets (Jace)erdana; font-size:9px">Library code: ((((((((~~?8rRgf~~Controllo~~4=22Z4u~~2AfFoD9~~3AR=f?U~~1AV2Sqn~~2BgrlzF~~2AXVHK2~~2Bv9soo~~2=BhaC2~~2BYNpIs~~2BQh3JZ~~1AM7rMq~~2BSk1iS~~2AM?ImW~~1AOGeX?~~1BcvqPe~~2?6r?pu~~2B=oA0O~~2?z=kXF~~1ADmWas~~))))))))
   cost  
 Creature ■■ Hedron Crab  0/2   
■■■■ Jace's Phantasm  1/1   
 Spell ■■■ Thought Scour   
 Unsummon   
   cost  
 Spell ■■ Counterspell   
■■ Into the Roil   
■■ Mind Sculpt   
■■ Sapphire Medallion   
   cost  
 Creature ■■ Aether Adept  2/2   
 Spell ■■ Crippling Chill   
 Dream Fracture   
■■ Sword of Body and Mind   
   cost  
 Creature ■■ Clone  0/0   
 Spell  Sleep   
   cost  
 Creature ■■ Body Double  0/0   
 Spell  Archive Trap   
■■ Mind Control   
■■ Telemin Performance   
   cost  
 Creature  Chancellor of the Spires  5/7   
erdana; font-size:9px">Get the deck planner used to make this table.>>>




Turbo  mill DP .... it's a bit random, and you will lose 90% of matches vs chandra/GM/goblins/PK, but most other decks are very very unhappy to see a properly cut DP.
Statistical FACT: Everyone on these forums besides Thedevilwuster wins OVER 90% OF THEIR MATCHES.
Used to play turbo mill exclusively for a while and its not close to being the worst build in the game. I used to get turn 6-8 mills consistently. Here is what I used:

erdana; font-size:12px; border-collapse:collapse" cellspacing="0" border="0">"Suicide Turbo Mill"61 Cards. 25 Lands (25).A library for Dream Puppets (Jace)erdana; font-size:9px">Library code: ((((((((~~?8rRgf~~Suicide Turbo Mill~~4=22Z4u~~2AfFoD9~~3AR=f?U~~2Bp=?bm~~2BSl1Cm~~2AV2Sqn~~2A2OmMm~~2BgrlzF~~2=i6ZxG~~2AXVHK2~~2AV4ifp~~3Bv9soo~~1AM7rMq~~3AFEDE5~~2?h9Nu1~~1Ajlddj~~1BcvqPe~~))))))))
erdana; font-size:12px; border:1px solid rgb(74, 175, 221); border-collapse:collapse; text-align:left" cellspacing="0" border="0"> Creatures    cost  ■■■■ Jace's Phantasm  1/1    Mill    cost  ■■ Hedron Crab  0/2   ■■■ Thought Scour   ■■ Tome Scour      cost  ■■■ Mind Sculpt      cost  ■■■ Dreamborn Muse  2/2      cost  ■ Archive Trap    Draw    cost  ■■ Visions of Beyond      cost  ■■ Howling Mine   ■■ Jace's Erasure      cost  ■■ Font of Mythos   ■ Wheel and Deal    [/m]m="hp://ommny.zad.om/e/all/modle/om/foe_e/mley/zad/_mana.pn" al="" />[m]  cost  ■■ Prosperity  [/m]m="hp://ommny.zad.om/e/all/modle/om/foe_e/mley/zad/_mana.pn" al="" />[m]  Bounce    cost  ■■ Unsummon      cost  ■■ Into the Roil    Control    cost  ■■ Counterspell      cost  ■ Dream Fracture   erdana; font-size:9px">Get the deck planner used to make this table.>>>


 
I recently made a youtu.be/SpFqTI_UIfU" title="youtu.be/SpFqTI_UIfU">video of my Dream Puppets build in action. Like a few of you, I prefer a build that has more control, but can still bust out a mill every now and then. I love it.