2 daggers and Dexterity damage bonus

If you attack using 2 daggers (one in each hand), do you have to declare before rolling the attack dice what is the "primary" one (that will add the Dexterity modifier to the damage)? 
If you attack using 2 daggers (one in each hand), do you have to declare before rolling the attack dice what is the "primary" one (that will add the Dexterity modifier to the damage)?

Not unless they have separate properties (e.g. one has a magical enchantment that offers +1 to attack).

Danny

If you attack using 2 daggers (one in each hand), do you have to declare before rolling the attack dice what is the "primary" one (that will add the Dexterity modifier to the damage)?

Not unless they have separate properties (i.e. one has a magical enchantment that offers +1 to attack).


So if you make 2 attacks, and hit with only one, you can always add the Dexterity bonus to damage.
No when Two Weapon Fighting the first attack always add the modifier while the second never does.
No when Two Weapon Fighting the first attack always add the modifier while the second never does.

This.

I thought the question was about differentiating the two weapons, not about order of operations.

Danny

No when Two Weapon Fighting the first attack always add the modifier while the second never does.

This.

I thought the question was about differentiating the two weapons, not about order of operations.


Ah ok.

If you have Weapon Mastery and hit with both attacks, do you roll the extra damage die (keeping the best) for evey attack?
Even with opportunity attacks? 
No when Two Weapon Fighting the first attack always add the modifier while the second never does.

This.

I thought the question was about differentiating the two weapons, not about order of operations.


Ah ok.

If you have Weapon Mastery and hit with both attacks, do you roll the extra damage die (keeping the best) for evey attack?
Even with opportunity attacks? 


Quote:

"When you attack with a weapon and roll its damage dice....."

So I'd say by the rules yes...should this be changed to "primary weapon"? Yes. 
Ok. Last (similar) question:
if you have more than one attack during your turn, do you have to declare the activation of the Deadly Strike before rolling the attack die or you can do it after rolling it? 
Ok. Last (similar) question:
if you have more than one attack during your turn, do you have to declare the activation of the Deadly Strike before rolling the attack die or you can do it after rolling it? 


Oooooooohhhhh good one........quote:When you roll damage for an attack, you can roll the weapons damage dice twice and....." so I'd say afterwards if you want...now a question from me: With weapon mastery, can you roll each die twice and drop the lowest?

PP 
If you have Weapon Mastery and hit with both attacks, do you roll the extra damage die (keeping the best) for evey attack?

Yes.

Even with opportunity attacks?

Yes.


So I'd say by the rules yes...should this be changed to "primary weapon"?

I don't think it should be changed to "primary weapon" because there is no definition or reference to primary weapons elsewhere within the rules.


Ok. Last (similar) question:
if you have more than one attack during your turn, do you have to declare the activation of the Deadly Strike before rolling the attack die or you can do it after rolling it?

This is table-dependent. Some groups will want declarations before the attack, some will let you see the result of your first roll and make your decision then—it's a gaming culture thing that the rules don't take a stand on.

In my gaming circles, I encourage players to roll their attacks and damage at the same time, and to always declare their intentions before rolling (unless the rules explictly state that they may see their die results before making a decision), but it's more of a table-management thing than anything else.

Do whatever feels right to you.


now a question from me: With weapon mastery, can you roll each die twice and drop the lowest?

Yes.

Danny


now a question from me: With weapon mastery, can you roll each die twice and drop the lowest?

Yes.


I meant with deadly strike and weapon mastery. Still yes?

PP

I meant with deadly strike and weapon mastery. Still yes?

In my games we roll three dice (one for your weapon, one for Weapon Mastery, and one for Deadly Strike), drop the lowest one (Weapon Mastery's benefit), and add the other two together (Deadly Strike's benefit).

Danny

if you have more than one attack during your turn, do you have to declare the activation of the Deadly Strike before rolling the attack die or you can do it after rolling it? 

The way I read it, which many math people have agreed seems reasonable, is that you don't declare the use of Deadly Strike until after your attack hits. This way, the benefit of using two weapons is that you are much more likely that at least one of those attacks will hit and get the extra dice of damage, compared to a two-handed weapon that will either hit for a ton of damage or miss entirely.

The metagame is not the game.

The way I read it, which many math people have agreed seems reasonable, is that you don't declare the use of Deadly Strike until after your attack hits. This way, the benefit of using two weapons is that you are much more likely that at least one of those attacks will hit and get the extra dice of damage, compared to a two-handed weapon that will either hit for a ton of damage or miss entirely.

That's the crux of the conversation right there... it doesn't really matter.

Danny

I meant with deadly strike and weapon mastery. Still yes?

In my games we roll three dice (one for your weapon, one for Weapon Mastery, and one for Deadly Strike), drop the lowest one (Weapon Mastery's benefit), and add the other two together (Deadly Strike's benefit).



I dig that..thanks

PP 
That's the crux of the conversation right there... it doesn't really matter.

It's all about what's fun. If you have to declare it ahead of time, then you might be discouraged from playing a two-weapon fighter, since they're significantly less effective than a two-handed-weapon fighter. If you don't have to declare it, then you get the fun trade-off between damage and accuracy, which seems like what the designers probably intended.

The metagame is not the game.

That's the crux of the conversation right there... it doesn't really matter.

It's all about what's fun. If you have to declare it ahead of time, then you might be discouraged from playing a two-weapon fighter, since they're significantly less effective than a two-handed-weapon fighter. If you don't have to declare it, then you get the fun trade-off between damage and accuracy, which seems like what the designers probably intended.


So the DEX/STR damage is automatically "the first attack only", while the Deadly Strike damage can be declared "after any attack" (it seems).

If you hit a target (adding DEX/STR and Deadly Strike to damage) and you Cleave to another target, this new attack can only add the DEX/STR and not the Deadly Strike, right (it's still you turn)?
Correct, because Deadly Strike is 1/turn.
RAW, you use Deadly Strikes when you roll damage.  It is not written anywhere that you have to declare that you will be using it before rolling an attack, so if you make more than one attack on your turn you can use it on an attack that hits, whether it's the first one or the last one.


now a question from me: With weapon mastery, can you roll each die twice and drop the lowest?



You can roll ONE additional die every time you roll weapon damage, and drop the lowest.  If you use Deadly Strikes and it adds two dice to your damage (for a total of three dice,) Weapon Mastery would let you roll four dice and drop the lowest.  You only ever add one die and drop the lowest, no matter how many damage dice you throw on the roll.

So if you're swinging two weapons and you've got the Dual Wielding feat* and the Weapon Mastery feat, and your Deadly Strikes let you add one die, it might look like this:

- On your first attack, you roll to hit with your (d8) mainhand weapon.  Aw, you missed.
- You attack with your offhander (d6).  You hit!  You haven't used Deadly Strikes yet, so you may roll 3d6 and drop the lowest result.  Do not add your ability modifier to damage.

- Your target opts to flee on his turn.  You get an opportunity attack!  You swing with your mainhand weapon (d8).  You hit!  We're still on the same round, but it's the monster's turn, so you may apply your Deadly Strike to the damage roll.  You roll 3d8, drop the lowest result and add your ability modifier.  Maybe he should've stood his ground. . .

*I'm using a d8 mainhander and a d6 offhander even though the OP is about two daggers to make the difference between mainhand and offhand attacks more clear.
"When Friday comes, we'll all call rats fish." D&D Outsider
RAW, you use Deadly Strikes when you roll damage.  It is not written anywhere that you have to declare that you will be using it before rolling an attack, so if you make more than one attack on your turn you can use it on an attack that hits, whether it's the first one or the last one.

No, each attack resolve seperatly and you either use it when you roll an attack's damage or not. But if you don't and make another attack and miss, you cannot decide to roll the extra [W] and add it to the previous attack's damage.

RAW, you use Deadly Strikes when you roll damage.  It is not written anywhere that you have to declare that you will be using it before rolling an attack, so if you make more than one attack on your turn you can use it on an attack that hits, whether it's the first one or the last one.

No, each attack resolve seperatly and you either use it when you roll an attack's damage or not, But if you don't and make another attack and miss, you cannot decide to roll the extra [W] and add it to the previous attack's damage.

I agree.

Danny

RAW, you use Deadly Strikes when you roll damage.  It is not written anywhere that you have to declare that you will be using it before rolling an attack, so if you make more than one attack on your turn you can use it on an attack that hits, whether it's the first one or the last one.

No, each attack resolve seperatly and you either use it when you roll an attack's damage or not. But if you don't and make another attack and miss, you cannot decide to roll the extra [W] and add it to the previous attack's damage.




We aren't disagreeing.  Let me be more clear:

You make an attack roll.

If it hits, you roll damage.  It is at this point you have the opportunity to roll your DS dice or not, as you choose.

That is a complete, independant event.  It may be in the same action as other attacks, but yes, it is resolved separately from other attacks.  When I said it could be applied to the first one or the last one, I didn't mean retroactively; I meant that you can apply DS dice to the damage of any attack you make during the course of the round, as long as you only apply it to one damage roll per turn.

You could, for instance, make an attack, hit with the attack and choose not to roll DS.  Then on your next attack during that action, if you hit, you could apply your DS dice to the second attack.  Of course, if you choose not to apply DS to the first attack and then miss the second one, you can't go back and throw another die to add to the damage you already dealt on a previous attack.  Unless you get another attack in that turn, you just lost the chance to apply DS.
"When Friday comes, we'll all call rats fish." D&D Outsider
Coolio thanks for clarifying Kaganfindel
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