Spare the Dying

Hello,
Quick question. When Spare the Dying is used, the PC get 1 HP. does this mean they cang et up and start fighting again? I've been reading some threads and it seems that way.

PP 
Yes the PC regain conciousness immediatly upon regaining 1 HP, but its still prone.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Yeah thats not happening on our campaign tomorrow night then. Stabilize only. Thanks for the info
PP 
If you didn't try them as written yet, i'd say playtest with them and gather feedbacks before houseruling because that's what WoTC is looking for. 

Will you also houserule the healer's kit because it heals 1 HP? 

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

If you didn't try them as written yet, i'd say playtest with them and gather feedbacks before houseruling because that's what WoTC is looking for. 

Will you also houserule the healer's kit because it heals 1 HP? 


Dont really know yet. Probably so.

Using a Cure Wounds spell or a potion IMHO is different than the aforementioned spell and kit. I just see WAY too much abuse on this. like Neverwinter Nights on crack.

PP 
So people will be brought back into the battle with cure wounds rather than spare the dying - what difference does that make?

"In the game there is magic" - Orethalion

 

Only got words in my copy.

So people will be brought back into the battle with cure wounds rather than spare the dying - what difference does that make?


Because you cant use cure wounds 50 times in a battle at level 4.
I don't understand people who houserule playtest material. Totally defeats the point. 
I don't understand people who houserule playtest material. Totally defeats the point. 



Well, the point of the playtest is to see what isn't working.  They determined it doesn't work, and provide a possible fix and test it out as well, letting the designers know what worked for them, giving them ideas to go off of for the next version.

What is the point of pointing out a problem if you do not also point out a potential fix.  I know my boss would yell at me if I did that.  You never point out a problem without bringing up at least a potential fix.  Testing that fix and submitting those test results only helps.
I don't understand people who houserule playtest material. Totally defeats the point. 



Well, the point of the playtest is to see what isn't working.  They determined it doesn't work, and provide a possible fix and test it out as well, letting the designers know what worked for them, giving them ideas to go off of for the next version.

What is the point of pointing out a problem if you do not also point out a potential fix.  I know my boss would yell at me if I did that.  You never point out a problem without bringing up at least a potential fix.  Testing that fix and submitting those test results only helps.


^This
I'm amazed - it's like saying the point of taste testing is to see what tastes bad....soooo, without even tasting something, we decide it's no good to eat...but we still call that a taste test? Here we call it playtesting when...we don't actually test something in play?

So people will be brought back into the battle with cure wounds rather than spare the dying - what difference does that make?


Because you cant use cure wounds 50 times in a battle at level 4.


I guess if coup de grace isn't allowed in play, your point is that there are unlimited revivals.

"In the game there is magic" - Orethalion

 

Only got words in my copy.

I'm amazed - it's like saying the point of taste testing is to see what tastes bad....soooo, without even tasting something, we decide it's no good to eat...but we still call that a taste test? Here we call it playtesting when...we don't actually test something in play?

So people will be brought back into the battle with cure wounds rather than spare the dying - what difference does that make?


Because you cant use cure wounds 50 times in a battle at level 4.


I guess if coup de grace isn't allowed in play, your point is that there are unlimited revivals.



Example: 3 level 1 clerics and an Ogre. The 3 clerics WILL win eventually. no matter what you do.

Anyways...Sure its allowed. But its ridiculous. So we've changed it back to the way it should have been all along...and the way it was forever... -10 you're dead...end of story... No nonsense, or confusing "lets not kill anyone and make them sad" BS, or unrealistic crap. If you're not -10, then you can use Spare to stabilize, but you cant hop back into battle like everything is ok and you've got a paper cut. At best you're going to live if nobody runs by and finishes you off with an errant fireball or a goblin with a good spot roll.

Our group has a combined experience of over 100 years of gameplay spanning every edition D&D has ever had...period....most of the DM'ing done by two of us. We dont need to test it. We can read how it will work and extrapolate on experience.

Now, if its good for others, huzzah, I truly am glad, and hope you get something out of it (which is what all this is about to begin with). As for us, no thanks.

It just seems in our experience, that if its not a coup de grace, you're going to live, no matter what. If you dont want a fear of perma-death, go play Final Fantasy.

PP
From a scientific sort of method, no, you don't just guess the result - you run the experiment.

Just saying that's from that sort of method.

It just seems in our experience, that if its not a coup de grace, you're going to live, no matter what. If you dont want a fear of perma-death, go play Final Fantasy.


Or use coup de grace.

"In the game there is magic" - Orethalion

 

Only got words in my copy.

From a scientific sort of method, no, you don't just guess the result - you run the experiment.

Just saying that's from that sort of method.

It just seems in our experience, that if its not a coup de grace, you're going to live, no matter what. If you dont want a fear of perma-death, go play Final Fantasy.


Or use coup de grace.

Scientific method? This isnt chemistry class. Give me a break. ANyways, its house-ruled so thats that.

PP

Well, this conversation isn't house ruled, so if you want to cut out of it suddenly, okay.

"In the game there is magic" - Orethalion

 

Only got words in my copy.

So how do people see this abused in actual gameplay? I haven't

I see the 3 clerics and an Ogre fight going something like this:

Ogre knocks the frist cleric  (Al) out, starts on #2 (Bob).  #3 (Chris) runs up and touches Al with Spare.

Al is now alive, but prone and next to an angry Ogre.  He stands up, and can't move, but is at 1 hitpoint....Ogre hits him again, and he's down.... and possibly taken out with massive damage.  especially level 1's... the ogre averages 13 damage a hit...  If not, rinse and repeat as it's 2 on 1 (victim, damage dealer, and healer is tied up), as this doesn't change unless the Ogre can take down cleric 2, or change the scenario.

How this loop can fall apart in gameplay:
1) Only 1 PC has spare the dying:  if the ogre figures out only 1 of them has Spare the Dying (say, it's not 3 clerics) he just shifts focus and smashes the culprit, changing the scenario.
2) Creatures with Multi-attack.  They spend 1 of several attacks on the weakened guy, either the smallest one just to get him out of the fight again, or the biggest aiming for a massive damage kill.
3) Chris the healer see's a better alternative than sparing Al....such as just smacking the Ogre himself, or casting a more direct and nasty spell.  Seems roundabout to restore someone else to take the same action you could do.  (This is usually what I see)
4) DMing technique (not really the point as we're playtesting) - If there is more than 1 enemy, the other guy follows the knockout with a coup de grace.  Do that a few times when players try to spam StD, and they'll stop quick.  Especially if a CdG doesn't usually occur under normal circumstances....


Besides limiting StD to stabilizing only here's a couple other ideas:
Tweak the spell, Subject can only be spared Once per day...  They can still get up and run away, but standing to fight isn't so attractive anymore, unless they can land a sucker punch...
Or tweak the condition.  Say you can only take a move action the first turn you come back from 0 hp.  So the victim can stand, or crawl/disengage as they start prone.  Makes narrative sense to me, seeing as I'd need to get my bearings after having my head bashed in.  And in the rules I'd remind readers about the victim being prone just to avoid confusion. 
It'd be interesting if each use of spare the dying lowered your death by massive damage requirement by one or two points (until you short or long rest)

"In the game there is magic" - Orethalion

 

Only got words in my copy.

My first thought in reading this thread was that there ought to be some condition between 'just fine' and unconscious. A PC at 20 hit points - just fine, a PC at 1 hp - just fine, a PC at 0 Hp - knocked out...  Spare the Dying or Healing Kit - back up - fully operational - No Problems - JUST FINE...

It never made sense to me... I always thought there should be some condition like 'Badly Wounded', 'Weakened' or dare I say 'Bloodied'
As a DM I always tried to play the 'monsters' that way... if they got low on HP they'd be much more likely to take off rather than stand there and get killed. If they had to stay and fight (cornered), I let them have ONE turn of last ditch effort but then they'ed function at reduced effectiveness. 

If a wizard at 1hp can cast just as well as a wizard at 20hp there's more incentive to stick around and fight than there would be if the PC not only faced the threat of getting killed much more easily but, in addition, knew that they were unlikely to do much good in the fight. "Get clear Wedge, You can't do any more good back there!"         
Some of my players want me to switch from 4e to 5th for the weekly encounters session. I am not reaaly interested until wotc finalizes the rules. I did run the vault sessions , and basically the 1point heal made it impossible to eliminate characters from the fight. So no more 1 point cantrip heals in any 5th adventures thatbi run (those for which 4th options are not included)