Should I learn 4e?

Hi,

A few years ago I bought the D&D 4e core rulebooks, but I'm only just learning how to play.

Will D&D Next make such a difference that I should wait and learn that or, having already bought the books, is it ok to learn 4e?

Thanks!
 If you already own the books at least try it out and make up your own mind. Just because something is not in print anymore doesn't really matter. D&DN is probably at least a year away.

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 

I would definatly prefer 4e over the current packet.

But 5e has a decent (say... 60%) chance of being more fun when it is finally released.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Yes, its a fun system and you already have the books. And dont feel you have to look for the errata or make significant changes to the game for it to be fun or exciting.

5e is still months away so you might as well start with an already stongly established edition
What Zardnaar said. If you spent the money might as well give it a try. Ultimately it is going to be a d20 system so the mechanics will change, but alot of information in the rules are going to still be relivent despite being implemented differently.

Big Model: Creative Agenda
Reality Refracted: Social Contracts

My blog of Random Stuff 

Dreaming the Impossible Dream
Imagine a world where the first-time D&D player rolls stats, picks a race, picks a class, picks an alignment, and buys gear to create a character. Imagine if an experienced player, maybe the person helping our theoretical player learn the ropes, could also make a character by rolling ability scores and picking a race, class, feat, skills, class features, spells or powers, and so on. Those two players used different paths to build characters, but the system design allows them to play at the same table. -Mearl

"It is a general popular error to suppose the loudest complainers for the publick to be the most anxious for its welfare." - Edmund Burke

Back to Product and General D&D Discussions -- because the mobile site is bad.

IMO: The 2014 gencon is the most likely date.

So another year.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I think the system is not fun for me but I still think you should try it.   Playstyle preferences are varied and 4e will introduce you to something very different than other versions of D&D.  You might find you prefer the 4e way.  Without that experience your ability to judge a game is lessened.

 
Really it depends on your preference. While i still enjoy systems like Star Wars: Saga and 3.5 D&D, 4E really helped open my imagination both from a player's perspective and from a DM. To me, the possibilities of character creation were limitless and provided the greatest breadth of immersion than any other system of d20 that I tried AND had a semibalance of balance that my choices were completely inferior to someone else.

Want to play a Vampire
Really it depends on your preference. While i still enjoy systems like Star Wars: Saga and 3.5 D&D, 4E really helped open my imagination both from a player's perspective and from a DM. To me, the possibilities of character creation were limitless and provided the greatest breadth of immersion than any other system of d20 that I tried AND had a semibalance of balance that my choices were completely inferior to someone else.

Want to play a Vampire or Werewolf or Shifter or Warforged or Minotaur or Centaur and not be completely overpowered next to your Human Bard buddy or the Halfling fighter then 4e is for you. Options, interesting choices, reflavoring, and a surge for stronger use of imagination were the biggest selling points for me when I started 4E. Not that 3.5 couldnt do this, hut I feel 4e was better suited for it. Obviously YMMV.
I enjoyed the 4E games I played, especially at lower levels. There was a lot of innovation put into the game that some people liked and others did not. You should give it a try. I can tell you that I have played all the editions and I believe 4E was pretty straight forward and easy to learn.
If you own the books AND you can easily find a group, then you should give 4E a try.  You can look for players in your hometown on these forums, and visit your nearest hobby shops.  If you just want to try D&D, though, any edition will be good for you, or you might wait for Next to come out but that will probably be at least until January and more likely next year in August.

Most groups will try Next when it comes out, and they'll be able to continue playing how they're used to because Next is supposed to support every style of the game.

You will get different opinions about 4E on its own merits.  There are many avid fans here, and many don't like it at all and don't even consider it D&D (but some other game).
If you do, realize DCs, monster formulaes and just about everything else got errataed.  www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/u... and enjoy 27 pages of errata for the PHB alone.  Monsters before Monster Manual 3 kinda suck and shouldn't be used, you need to adjust all skill DCs, and if you use a published adventure you need to figure out if it was published before or after those changes to adjust the monsters and DCs yourself.

Your best bet if you want to play 4E is to go with the essentials books.

@mikemearls don't quite understand the difference

I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down. - Eric Cartman

Enough chitchat!  Time is candy! - Pinky Pie

Although you'll get mixed reviews about it, I definitely found 4e to be My personal favorite edition so far, and find it more fulfilling then the current playtest packets reflect for sure. I am quite hopeful for 5e still (eternal optimist I guess) but still say you should go ahead and get some use out of the books you bought, as you very well may find that you enjoy the game immensely.

4e had several strong points going for it:

*Balance between Classes and Races
*A unified skeletal structure, so playing a new class/race didn't mean relearning everything from scratch
*Rules-lite for out of combat, so that the Players and DM were more free to bring those aspects to life without feeling mechanically constrained
*Ease of use in DMing, with very clear stat blocks for monsters, and an experience budget that worked with any party size or makeup
*Codification of status effects and with use of the Character Builder, easy reference power cards so there was less page turning and more dice rolling
*Higher survivability at lower levels, while still clearly giving players a feel of real risk of death for their characters. Just not Rocket-tag/fantasy vietnam style (Higher initial hitpoints so 1-hit kills don't happen as often, and more options for healing especially between encounters reducing the requirement of having a Cleric in the party)
*30 levels of play detailed out without need of an "Epic Level Handbook"

It is a very worthy game to play, and fits many people's playstyles, as well as handling many of the complaints that were heard rather loudly in older edition tables before it came out, so I definitely recommend it to you. Just play it with an open mind and a desire to have fun, and as long as your DM is competent, you shouldn't have a problem! 
Want continued support for 4e, check this out, 4e Lives and Breaths

Check out MY eZine, Random Encounters Seuss (lordseussmd on YM)

Well, the worst that could happen is you have a better understanding of it. Sounds like a good deal to me.

Especially since, for me at least, 4e plays way better than it looks on paper. It LOOKS very gamiest in the books (or WoW-ish as some put it) but plays very narrativist. Assuming your in a group that rolls with it, obviously. Spoilers, page 42 DMG.

Also realize the game is perfectly playable and enjoyable even if you don't use any of the Errata. I often have run the game straight out of the PHBs without consulting any of the errata whatsoever and the players have had no problem with the game. I have also used some of the errata to play, personally, I don't like the Essentials version myself, but if you have the Essentials books, then by all means, go for that as well!
Want continued support for 4e, check this out, 4e Lives and Breaths

Check out MY eZine, Random Encounters Seuss (lordseussmd on YM)
Spoilers, page 42 DMG.




I can no longer hear a phrase like that without picturing a certain actress in Doctor Who.
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

Hi, A few years ago I bought the D&D 4e core rulebooks, but I'm only just learning how to play. Will D&D Next make such a difference that I should wait and learn that or, having already bought the books, is it ok to learn 4e? Thanks!



It's always OK to learn & play another system. 
The worst thing that'll happen?  You'll decide "This edition/system is crap & I wasted x$ & time on it".
when that happens?  Don't despair of the entire hobby, just pick another game or edition to try.
Or you might find something that you love.
And you can like & even play multiple editions of the same game.  Ex; On Tuesday I'm in a 1e game.  On the weekends I play in/run a 3.5/Pathfinder game.  Were there enough time in the week?  we'd add a 2e game to the list!
In the future?  I've no doubt we'll give 5e a try (after it's actually published & on shelves)
Only Matt Smith Era Character I like so far...Spoilers Love, Spoilers!
Want continued support for 4e, check this out, 4e Lives and Breaths

Check out MY eZine, Random Encounters Seuss (lordseussmd on YM)
If you do, realize DCs, monster formulaes and just about everything else got errataed.  www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/u... and enjoy 27 pages of errata for the PHB alone.  Monsters before Monster Manual 3 kinda suck and shouldn't be used, you need to adjust all skill DCs, and if you use a published adventure you need to figure out if it was published before or after those changes to adjust the monsters and DCs yourself.

Your best bet if you want to play 4E is to go with the essentials books.



And yet we play with a 4E that only sees Errata through the DDI Character Builder. Monsters, DCs, Traps, magical items after character creation are straight from the book and work perfectly fine for us. We've done multiple published adventures (pre-errata and all) and had a lot of fun. It's not SUPER balanced, to be sure, but I don't really care for that much over-the-top micromanagement in my RPGs to being with. Just keep it in the ballpark and your fine. If a power or combination ever becomes a problem THEN we check errata to see if it hasn't been mentioned and adjust then, not before going into every single campaign or battle or whatever.

To the O.p.
Dude play whatever you want. If you spent the money on 4e you should probably try it. I don't give a flip about the system we are playtesting here. Could be that you will like 4e and be happy. As I never played it I can't be sure. The only thing I am sure of is that I am not digging the direction of Next. It just bores me. I actually moved on to Pathfinder myself. That system is fun if fiddley. If you are considering a 3e retroclone via Next you might as well go with the best selling rpg on the market. Nowadays Pathfinder is King. 
They are extremely different games, so learning one will not likely help with the other. But D&D isn't the kind of game where you're expected to play the lastest version. I hated 4th edition, so I've still been playing 3.5 all this time. You should play the edition you like most. Since you already have the books, it won't hurt you to learn the game, but don't expect to see anything like it in 5th edition, or any other edition, it's very different.
All editions are good and played differently.

From what we playtested, I'd say that learning how to build stories/encounters in 4th edition won't help you a lot if you want to go into DDN later.

If you think my english is bad, just wait until you see my spanish and my italian. Defiling languages is an art.

I'd advise you to learn 4e. It's good to know several systems and approaches.


As someone who has played 1st, 3.0, 3.5, and 4.0, 4th edition superficially looks the least like D&D, but in many ways it plays the most like I think D&D should have always been. At least from levels 1-6. Then it's very balanced and is a great game that is pretty accessible. Anyone who isn't going out of their way to optimize or make a terrible character will make a pretty useful character that can be fun to play and doens't feel like a sidekick to other members of their party.

After that problems slowly creep in until about level 12-14, and between levels 15 and 23 the gap between optimizers and casual gamers will be as wide as the grand canyon. The game will start breaking and words like overpowered and broken will get tossed about like candy unless your players are going way out of their way to not break the game. But scaling has never been a strong point of D&D....

It's at the very least an interesting game to learn, and I think in early levels its a great game to play.
My preferences are 4E, 2E, 1E, 3E, but depending on your preference 3E and 4E are big departures from previous editions, so you will have to be patient to work out any bias that is not an immediate rejection just because some new mechanics or approaches are taken.


Every version of the game relates to other games of there times... some-times less like super simplistic avatars running around in a maze fleeing monsters while gathering bits in order to grow and attack the monsters back some-times more...  Later versions  have more complex "games within a game" instead of waka waka waka....  and more like a fancy keyboard of flashy moves.
 
Sense of humor aside... each edition of the game grew out of the one previous it was probably necessary that 4e take bolder strides to bring a distance between its content and all the free OGL, which had be put aside for business reasons. 

  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

I say learn 4e, what's the harm in learning how the system works? Nobody says you have to play it.

If you do learn how it works and it sounds like fun, then play it. Nobody says you can't have fun with it (other than edition warriors).

The current iteration of D&DN is in testing; it's not a final product and we have no actual knowledge short of guesswork when it will come out. Could be next year, could be later. Could look like a totally different game.

The current iteration of D&DN is meant to be in testing, it is a play test. Things are meant to be changed. If you want to take part in that, great. If not, then 4e would be the most recent edition of D&D to play.

Supporting an edition you like does not make you an edition warrior. Demanding that everybody else support your edition makes you an edition warrior.

Why do I like 13th Age? Because I like D&D: http://magbonch.wordpress.com/2013/10/16/first-impressions-13th-age/

AzoriusGuildmage- "I think that you simply spent so long playing it, especially in your formative years with the hobby, that you've long since rationalized or houseruled away its oddities, and set it in your mind as the standard for what is and isn't reasonable in an rpg."

 

As someone who has played 1st, 3.0, 3.5, and 4.0, 4th edition superficially looks the least like D&D, but in many ways it plays the most like I think D&D should have always been.   



I have certainly heard some say its the most back to being D&D edition ever which was why they didnt like it...  there is your circle of irony
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

Honestly at least give it a try. I gave up on 4E after a point because it just didn't fit our playstyle and the battles were too long. But I enjoyed it for a time, its a different game altogether in my opinion.

D&D Next is still in its infancy and I wouldn't recommend it for any long-standing campaign, stick to casual adventures for the playtest but run a full out campaign in your favorite edition (2nd, 3rd or 4th).
D&D Next is still in its infancy and I wouldn't recommend it for any long-standing campaign, stick to casual adventures for the playtest but run a full out campaign in your favorite edition (2nd, 3rd or 4th).

+1

If you think my english is bad, just wait until you see my spanish and my italian. Defiling languages is an art.

Hi, A few years ago I bought the D&D 4e core rulebooks, but I'm only just learning how to play. Will D&D Next make such a difference that I should wait and learn that or, having already bought the books, is it ok to learn 4e? Thanks!

I say learn as much as you can from as many sources as you can. It can only enrich your game!

Danny

Hey folks,

I removed some stuff that was a bit trollish and edition war mongering, or anything that referred to removed stuff for the sake of continuity.

Please remember to keep your posts polite and positive, even if you're criticizing something, and try to avoid ascribing motives to people who disagree with you.

As for the original poster, I say "play all the things!" It doesn't hurt to know lots of different rule sets, and you never know which one you'll like the best.

It's doable and gives you more flexibility when you find a group of people who want to play a particular edition. That way when someone says "Hey, up for a game of D&D edition X?" you can say "Absolutely, I am familiar with that rule set." More opportunities for fun.

Monica
Glad I was able to read that post by MtLKnight before it was deleted . Also glad that Emerikol's response to it was also preserved in the quote! ^^

Nothing like a bit of honest edition warring to push you further into depression! :D

---

To the OP, I think you should try some 4e . Since the current game being developed (D&D Next, aka D&D 5e) seems to be keen on furthering itself as far as possible from 4e, I wouldn't say playing 4th edition will help you much when you go into the wider D&D world. If anything, 4e and its players are, unfortunately, much maligned by the wider D&D community (as our friend MtLKnight could have proven to you).

However, no matter how the game rates in the community nowadays, it could still be a game you and your group like - as many other players/DMs do. And, if D&D's history can serve as an example, maybe the wheels will turn again and when we're talking about 6th or 7th edition the zeitgeist will have shifted in favor of a more "4e friendly" playstyle .

So, the best advice I think you could receive is: try the game, if you like, keep playing it. If you don't, try other editions of D&D. In any case, do came back for Next!
Are you threatening me master jedi? Dungeons & Dragons 4e Classic - The Dark Edition
Howdy folks,

This thread has gone into edition war territory and will now be closed.

Thanks.  

All around helpful simian

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