Newbie needs halp!

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Hello ^.^
So me and some friends started playing Magic a few months ago, its been tons of fun so far =p We decided as a group to goto our local FNM, the other 2 really dont seem to be worried, but I get the feeling were going to get curb stomped if we go in with our newbie decks. So doing as I do in almost all my other games I come to the forums for help =p
My current deck is

So my questions
Im really liking the massive waves of creatures this deck gives me, is that kind of deck competitive?
What might I be able to do to make this deck better without blowing the wallet? I only have about 60 to spend.
Is there a deck simular to this one(ala the massive amounts of creatures) that I can put together in my aforementioned price range? Assuming this one is never going to be competitive
Thanks for your help and time ^.^
The first thing you and your friends need to do is to verify that your decks only have cards that are currently in the standard format. You can use gatherer.wizards.com to check the legality of individual cards. For example, in your list, Blisterstick Shaman is not standard legal.

There is nothing wrong with your strategy: Red/green waves of creatures is a definite option. However, your particular list has four challenges:

1. You have very few removal spells, so you can't interact with threats that your opponent puts up.

2. The creatures you have picked are not the strongest among the red/green options available.

3. You don't have dual-colored lands, so your deck will be slow in bringing its threats online.

4. You have some cards that don't support your strategy.

How well you'd do depends largely on how competitive your FNM is, but I think right now it would not do great.

Some specific suggestions:

The best removal spells for you right now are Pillar of Flame, Searing Spear, and Mizzium Mortars. Brimstone Volley is also good, because it can deliver 5 damage to your opponent.

Some good creatures to look at include Young Wolf, Rakdos Cackler, Stromkirk Noble, Stonewright, Ash Zealot, Lightning Mauler, Burning-Tree Emissary, Flinthoof Boar, Pyrewild Shaman, Ghor-Clan Rampager, and Hellrider. These are not goblins, however, so you lose the goblin theme. I don't know that there are enough good goblins right now to support a goblin deck.

The dual colored lands you want are 4x Stomping Ground and 4x Rootbound Crag. These cost a bit though, especially the first.

Cards that don't help your strategy include: Torch Fiend (very few decks use artifacts right now), Fervor (use creatures with haste instead), Trumpet Blast (costs much too much mana for what it does), Reliquary Tower (your deck strategy consists of playing out your cards quickly and winning fast, so its first ability will never help you), and Ring of Valkas (costs too much mana for what it does). Also, Giant Growth is probably better than Titanic Growth: Paying one less mana is worth more than the extra +1/+1.
Personally I would drop the green and just go mono-red goblins/burn.

That way you dont have to worry about not owning expensive dual colored lands (or running sub-optimum cards like Evolving Wilds.

~ Tim
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
Personally I would drop the green and just go mono-red goblins/burn.

That way you dont have to worry about not owning expensive dual colored lands (or running sub-optimum cards like Evolving Wilds.

~ Tim



Thats what I was thinking, since you've only got 3 greens, unless you're partial to them of course Smile You also seem to have a large number of forests in comparison to the amount of green mana you'd actually need to spend.


Adopt one today!Adopt one today!Adopt one today!Adopt one today!Adopt one today!
If you like Giant Growth etc OP there is always Rubblebelt Maaka etc in red.

~ Tim 

I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
i agree with LMTRK, drop off green. if you only have 3 cards that need green mana, and you don´t play duals, it might screw up your mana.
you want your deck to be fast, and to do so, you need low manacost creatures. Krenko, Mob Boss even though it has neat ability, should be taken out. he has 4cmc and he is in range of searing spear wich is, in my meta anyway, played alot. play rakdos cackler , lightning mauler and mogg flunkies that have low manacost. also, remove your geysirs, they are slow, put in 4 searing spear s, they are very useful . you should also consider madcap skills, which gives nice buff and prevents you critters to be destoyed so easily 

 
Lightning Bolt says BOOM!
Thanks very much for all the replys so far, I figured Id respond to give my thinking/show my nubness =p

Firstly at Herth
1) The reason I have the thorch feinds is my one friend likes using Burning wrath and its an auto win for him if I dont somehow remove it, that and my collection of cards is extremely small to begin with x.x
2) The reason behind Fervor was everytime I tap krenko I bring in a crud ton of 1/1 goblins, its nice being able to attack with them right off the bat instead of sitting around using them as fodder to slow my enemys advance. Not sure thats the best use of all my tokens, but it seemed to work very well x.x
3) I actualy thought Trumpet Blast was a little under costed x.x Assuming a not completely **** hand I have between 10 and 14 creatures by turn 5, +2/0 on all of them for 3 mana just seems good x.x
4) Yeah Req tower is kinda pointless, but I got it in a booster and it seemed like a really good card, so I stuck it in there x.x
5) Ring of Valkas is in the deck to keep my Krenko from being 1 shot by spells like the ones your suggesting I get. I know for that to really work consistantly Ill probably need another one, but for now its seemed to work fairly decently at keeping my horde grower alive ^.^
6) For the stupidly exspensive lands, I really dont have much green in my deck, and most of my cards need no more then 2 red mana to work, how would not having those 12+ dollar cards screw my mana up??

At Kaljin
Yeah, I didnt touch the mana spread from the starter deck this deck is a mash up of x.x I thought I might have a bit to many forests, but I didnt know how to drop them and not be completely SOL for my growths and flinthoofs(had 2 in the deck, removed 1 to make room for ring)

At Falconheart
Without Krenko the whole deck just kinda doesnt play the same x.x I really like the look on the other guys face when I just pull out my midling sized token bucket and empty it out on turn 6 or 7 and with ring of Valkas he isnt in range of the super cheap damage style removal cards, so is he really a major weak point?
Ill look into getting some Rakados Craklers and Lightning Maulers, they do seem very nice, same with the searing spears, but I dont know if I want to remove Krenko, hes just so intrinsic to what makes this deck really fun to play x.x

Again, thanks for taking the time to read and reply ^.^ Anymore opinons would be welcomed, but I think the going thing is drop the green, add more creature removal and drop the token generation T.T
1) The only card with "burning" in its name that's also an artifact is Shrine of Burning Rage, which is not Standard legal anymore. So you don't need to fear it in FNM.

2) If you're set on haste, Hellraiser Goblin may be the better option, since he's a goblin too.

3) Trumpet blast has a superior option in Dynacharge. Not that this would be a much better card. Maybe try Weapon Surge, first strike is a beating.

4) If the card is pointless, don't run it. Tower taps for colorless mana only, which, even if it is just a minute disadvatage, is still a disadvantage.

5) Mask of Avacyn once again should be better than your Ring. And once again it's not that good a card. The Ring of Evos Isle is also a much better way to protect your Krenko, even though it doesn't give counters to red creatures.

6) You need to run a lot of forests for your only 3 green cards. And it may happen that you don't draw the mountain you need, especially, if you want to play more than one red spell a turn. I agree, that you should cut green, those 3 cards alone aren't worth the splash. This opens up the possibility of adding more utility lands. Even some copies of Seraph Sanctuary would be more useful. You might want to run some Ghost Quarters to deal with your opponent's problem utility lands. Haunted Fengraf turns itself into a creature, once you don't need it as mana producer. A Rogue's Passage o two can get a creature through. And I'm only listing budget options, here.
If you like Giant Growth etc OP there is always Rubblebelt Maaka etc in red.

And Pyrewild Shaman, which can come back from the graveyard into your hand.

6) For the stupidly exspensive lands, I really dont have much green in my deck, and most of my cards need no more then 2 red mana to work, how would not having those 12+ dollar cards screw my mana up??

Because without adequate green mana, your green cards will be dead in your hand for at least one turn. You don't want to spend one turn fetching a green mana source with Evolving Wilds when you play aggro, where so many games come down to exactly one turn. Conversely, you don't want to be stuck not being able to cast a red spell on T1 because you didn't draw a Mountain.

You can use Deculator to calculate probabilities of specific opening hands. If you have 15x Mountain and 8x Forest in a 60-card deck, the probability of drawing an opening hand with no Mountain is 12%.

If you don't want to invest in the dual-colored lands, which is fully understable, just drop the green and go mono-red. This is a perfectly viable strategy. You can still use Burning-Tree Emissary, which is a great card for Rx aggro.

Ok, so yall think I should just go mono red, so should I do a 1 to 1 conversion with my forests to mountains? Or should I drop some land? Any ideas on what stuff I should add? Or should I just drop the whole mass token Idea and go with something else? This weeks a booster draft at the place were going to play FNM at, so Im hoping to get some decent cards from that =p
Well, 23 land is enough in deck with low manacurve. you should testplay your deck before fnm to see if you get mana too often or you on´t seem to get it ever. Also, on mono-red, you should drop the idea of massive amounts of tokens, which is more of a green/white thing, and stick to fast-paced, aggressive deck
Lightning Bolt says BOOM!
Well, 23 land is enough in deck with low manacurve. you should testplay your deck before fnm to see if you get mana too often or you on´t seem to get it ever. Also, on mono-red, you should drop the idea of massive amounts of tokens, which is more of a green/white thing, and stick to fast-paced, aggressive deck


So if thats a green white thing whats a decent budget deck that does it or something simular? Sorry if my questions are kinda innane, but I cant seem to make the "Gatherer" work x.x
Use the advanced search.

~ Tim
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
So if thats a green white thing whats a decent budget deck that does it or something simular? Sorry if my questions are kinda innane, but I cant seem to make the "Gatherer" work x.x

In what way is it not working for you? I find the easiest thing to do is to use the Advanced search:

Gatherer: Advanced Search

For example, to look for green/white cards that generate tokens, I might do the following:

1. Under Format, select "Standard"
2. Under Colors, select  "Or" then "White"
3. Under Colors, select "Or" then "Green"
4. Below Colors, click on "More Options" and then select "Exclude Unselected Terms"
5. Under Rules Text, enter "token"

After each selection, click the "Add" button to add to the search criteria to the right. When you have everything you need, click on "Search" to look at the results. I usually sort the results by "Community Rating" (in descending) order, to get an initial impression of which might be the best cards.
OMG Thanks Hreth!! Ive been trying to figure this stupid thing out for like 2 months x.x I didnt realize i had to hit the Add button, I thought it just kinda auto added x.x

Ok, now for a kinda dumb rules question, I know a "block" is going out of standard in september, but I dont quiet know what that means x.x Like I thought it meant the oldest card set out at hte time was no longer legal, but then someone said all the cards in the "block" we gone, so whats a block? And what sets of cards are in said block?
A block consists of three expansion sets (the three sets issued each year other than the core set that comes out in the summer). Blocks really only matter in the standard format, in which (essentially) only cards from the last two blocks and the current core set can be used. More about the format here:

Sanctioned Formats

The two blocks that are currently standard legal are:

Innistrad block (contains the Innistrad, Dark Ascension, and Avacyn Restored expansion sets)

Return to Ravnica block (contains the Return to Ravnica, Gatecrash, and Dragon's Maze expansion sets).

Each fall, a new block rotates in and at the same time the oldest block rotates out. So, this year, on September 27, the Theros expansion set rotates in as the first set in the Theros block and at that same point the entire Innistrad block rotates out.

To determine which expansion sets are legal in what format, you can look here:

All Magic Card Sets

To determine which individual cards are in an expansion set or which cards are legal in a specific format, such as standard, use Gatherer. You can searh by format, blocks, or expansion sets.

Note that when a block rotates out, you can still use cards from an expansion set in the block if they have subsequently been reprinted in a set that is still in the format.
So aslong as I stick to the M13 cards and only cards from RtR I wont ave to worry about updating my deck in a few months? Kool ^.^

Also, I had a question on the deck, for a token deck is it better to have a bunch of cheap cards that get alot of tokens out quickly but has no really heavy hitters, or is it better to go with a slower deck that gets stuff out a little later?
What kind of mana acceleration cards should I use? I was thinking Arbor Elf and Avacyns Pilgrim, but arbor doesnt actually add any mana x.x
As for lands, can I use just guild gates to try and save some cash? Like I said, the wife will kill me if I spend more then 60 on any of my hobbies in a month x.x
Are there any auto includes I should look at? Ive seen Loxodo Smiter in like every G/W thread Ive seen, so should he be in there?
M13 rotates soon, too. I think Theros marks its last day? Not 100% sure, but it's soon. M14 is right around the corner. It's safer to invest in M13 than Innistrad, though, because you can reasonably expect a lot of cards from any given core set to be reprinted. Still, you should probably focus on RTR for now if you want to play Standard.

Quick decks and top-heavy decks both work, thats really up to your own play style. I don't have much to weigh in on there.

Arbor Elf accelerates just as much as Avacyn's Pilgrim, not sure what you mean by Arbor not generating mana. It personally doesn't, but unless you don't actually have any forests in play, the net result should be the same.

Guilds are sort of janky. You can get away with it, but optimally you want dual lands that can actually enter play untapped. The best cards in the game tend to be color-intensive, and gates won't let you rapidly churn them out. You're welcome to start with gates, though.

Loxodon Smiter is a solid card. He's an above-curve beater that punishes Discard, there's not much not to love. Voice of Resurgence is also fantastic, but if you have budget concerns over dual lands, there's no way you can afford Voices. 

Bro, do you even Autocard?

Autocarding: [c]Cryptic Command[/c] = Cryptic Command

Showing somebody how to autocard: [c[b][/b]]Cryptic Command[/c] = [c]Cryptic Command[/c] = Cryptic Command

Magic 2013 rotates out this September 27. Return to Ravnica does not rotate out until September/October 2014.

As has already been mentioned, both approaches work. You can create a bunch of cheap 1/1 tokens that you can pump up with Intangible Virtue. I have a token deck that uses fatter tokens (3/3 Centaurs and 5/5 Wurms mostly), which then get copied using the populate mechanism (e.g. Druid's Deliverance) and enchantment such as Parallel Lives.

If you are going to play for a while, it is well worth it to invest the money in dual-colored lands. Temple Garden is in Return to Ravnica, so will be with us for >1 year. I would maybe hold off on getting Sunpetal Grove right now, until we know whether it will be reprinted in Magic 2014 or not. The problem with guildgates is that they always come into the game tapped, so you will potentially lose a whole turn against your opponents, which is a big deal. Note also that Arbor Elf can untap Temple Garden to create either green or white mana.

The automatic include cards for the fat token approach are Selesnya Charm, Call of the Conclave, and Advent of the Wurm. As has been mentioned, Voice of Resurgence is also very powerful in these decks, but it is one of the most expensive cards in standard right now.
Ok, heres my proposed deck. Havent priced it out yet, but I figure since its mostly commons and uncommons it should be pretty cheap x.x

Any thoughts? I know its kinda spell heavy, but Parrel Lives just seems like an auto include for a token deck, same with Druid and Growing x.x

Populate works better with bigger tokens. It doesnt double the number of tokens it just makes a copy of one token. If you are only getting a 1/1 out of it then that isnt very good value.

I would recommend more cards that make bigger tokens. For one more mana that an Attended Knight you can cast Advent of the Wurm, for example.

Selesnya Charm is a good card for that sort of deck.

The deck will be better if you improve the mana base. Temple Garden is a safe buy right now (the other dual lands not so much). These will also work well with Arbor Elf.

Loxodon Smiter is a good efficient card but doesnt fit the token theme.   

4 Growing Ranks and 4 Parallel Lives might be too much, as that makes a large chunk of your deck that doesnt do anything without tokens already in play.

Keep playing around with Gatherer and see what other cards you can come up with.

~ Tim   

I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
Ah, yeah, I missread the populate rule x.x Thought I could copy ANY creature I had x.x
Yeah, I was actually thinking of replacing Parallel Lives with Advent of the Wurm when it cycled out x.x But since populate doesnt work the way I thought it did I think Ill drop loxodon for it.
My only quib against shock lands is the price. I have a very strict 60 dollar budget x.x
Shocklands should hold their price well, so in the future if you decide you dont want to play G/W anymore you should be able to sell them or trade them for other lands that you do need. You dont have to buy them all in one go either, you could get one a month or something, and build them up slowly. If you still dont want to use them then thats fair enough, I know what it is like to play on a budget (right now my budget is zero ;)).

~ Tim 
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
I concur with Tim. Shocklands aren't going to lose value, unlike Standard bomb creatures that rotate out of legality. Still, you should almost certainly focus on the spells in your deck first. 

I might go so far as to say that, barring rare dual lands, you should consider going pure basic lands. You'll have more Arbor Elf targets and no chance of missing turns due to your gates coming into play tapped, at the expense of risking color screw.

Bro, do you even Autocard?

Autocarding: [c]Cryptic Command[/c] = Cryptic Command

Showing somebody how to autocard: [c[b][/b]]Cryptic Command[/c] = [c]Cryptic Command[/c] = Cryptic Command

I would recommend at most three enchantments that populate (some mix of Parallel Lives and Growing Ranks). They cost a lot of mana to cast, and there are better things you could do with that mana. A better enchantment for you might be Intangible Virtue. You should also consider some flying tokens, like Midnight Haunting. Precinct Captain might be another choice card for your deck, but you need ways to make his damage come through. Rancor, Gift of Orzhova and Unflinching Courage are some options.
Totally agree. Mono Red/burn decks are good, 4 searing spears is a must, Mizzium mortars is good, only for it's overload. Volcanic strength can pump up creatures really well, Riot Piker is a low mana cost creature also really good. Rolling Tremblor is decent, Foundry Street Denizen can get big real fast. Try Them out.