the passing of time

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Ok, so this is a very noob question, but it is something i just can't seem to come up with a way to handle it. How does one address the passage of time in the game and make it entertaining without bogging down the actual plan for the day? Ill give an example. My PCs were to travel to a cave a day from their city to gather some materials to help the mages guild. I thought that the only important details were the preparing for the quest, gathering the supplies, and reaping the rewards. However, I was apparently incorrect. After they prepared for the quest and they decided they were ready they rested for the night and decided to leave early the next morning. 
Player: ok we are ready to leave for the cave
me: ok you should meet up with the mages so you can begin
player: OK we travel to the gates where they are waiting for us
Me:  ok you all leave together to go gather the supplies. you arrive just as night falls what would you like to do?
(this is apparently where i went wrong as they felt like it should have been a more eventful travel and not just an "aaaaand now you're there. GO" kind of experience)

As I am sure you have already deduced that we are all new to the experience as a whole, I was curious how the more experienced DMs handle travel over time or having to wait for a period of time.  
Think about movies: How often do you watch someone driving or walking to their destination? And how often is the travel actually the point of the scene? They're traveling, sure, but generally the point of the scene is about something else entirely. So perhaps this calls for a transition scene for character development and party interaction while foreshadowing future complications. And if there's not even that, you probably should just skip to the action at the adventure location.

The reason why traveling scenes fall flat is because they usually lack a dramatic question to be answered in the playing of the scene. If you don't have such a dramatic question to answer, then there's no point in playing it out because nothing is at stake and nothing will change. It thus doesn't get screentime.

For any decision or adjudication, ask yourself, "Is this going to be fun for everyone?" and "Is this going to lead to the creation of an exciting, memorable story?"

DMs: Dungeon Master 101  |  Session Zero  |  How to Adjudicate Actions  |  No Myth Roleplaying  |  5e Monster Index & Encounter Calculator
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That was my opinion on the matter, but i guess they expected something to happen along the way. The rest of the adventure was a success wrought with screeching fungi that attracted hungry cave bears and dire rats that wandered the cave system in packs. Its just that part that seemed to fall short. I said ok you're there and they were just like really we are just there like that? Should I be putting more description into the journey or adding encounters along the way? I feel like neither are really important when you look at the bigger picture for the adventure, but I cant leave them disappointed. 
+1 for Iserith
 

  1. If  you ever get the chance try reading The Belgariad  books; to me it is the best fiction I      have read that tackles this question head on; entire months and sometimes years will pass in a paragraph or two without the reader feeling cheated.


I try in my games to give a soft narrative, and maybe the option for a campfire talk if the players are feeling up to some Role Playing before the start of the next action packed round. I state this as a simple question; a transition seen in one of my games might look like…


Players- Okay we are ready to head out!


DM- Okay, you all head out for the whispering tower; following the main path as far as you can before diverting cross country; you travel without much incident after a few days of mundane legwork you find yourselves a few hours away from your destination; would you like to camp here and talk over your upcoming adventure? Or head on?


Hope this helps; and good luck.

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That is very helpful, thank you. I will look into that series hopefull that will provide me with some idea on how to tackle this as well
I said ok you're there and they were just like really we are just there like that?



Respond with: "Yes, and along the way you did encounter some creatures that were of little threat to you but that foreshadowed potential complications later. What creatures were they, how did you thwart or defeat them, and why does their unexpected presence concern you?"

Write down what they say, follow up on anything particularly interesting, and then use all of it later somehow.

Should I be putting more description into the journey or adding encounters along the way?



You can. Write down three to five bulletpoints, just a couple of words really that will remind you of important elements you'd like to highlight. Then talk about them and ask some questions of the players to flesh it out. For example, my list might be:



  • Foreboding woods full of shifting shadows

  • Bats the size of small dogs

  • Standing stones for a druidic cult lost to time


Use that as a starting point to describe the travel in a pithy and compelling way. Be concise - use words and phrases that are full of possibilities rather than info-dump on your players. Then ask them about those details. "How do these shifting shadows make Ragnar feel? What do these terrifying bats do as you trample into their guano-covered domain? What odd phenomenon do you see as you pass by the standing stones just as the sun is setting?"

For any decision or adjudication, ask yourself, "Is this going to be fun for everyone?" and "Is this going to lead to the creation of an exciting, memorable story?"

DMs: Dungeon Master 101  |  Session Zero  |  How to Adjudicate Actions  |  No Myth Roleplaying  |  5e Monster Index & Encounter Calculator
Players: Players 101  |  11 Ways to Be a Better Roleplayer  |  You Are Not Your Character  |  Pre-Gen D&D 5e PCs

Content I Created: Adventure Scenarios  |  Actual Play Reports  |  Tools  |  Game Transcripts

Follow me on Twitter: @is3rith



Respond with: "Yes, and along the way you did encounter some creatures that were of little threat to you but that foreshadowed potential complications later. What creatures were they, how did you thwart or defeat them, and why does their unexpected presence concern you?"

Write down what they say, follow up on anything particularly interesting, and then use all of it later somehow.




This is an interesting concept to me. As i said before we are all new to the playing DnD. We played with a friend for a couple sessions but he decided he didn't want to keep it going so i volunteered to DM as we all enjoyed the experience in just the couple sessions. There knowledge is restricted to the what is provided in the players handbook so they dont have a working knowledge of monsters that exist in the monster manual. I i hit them with an open ended question like that i feel like i would get blank stares from them. If they do happen to come up with an answer, would i be allowing them to create monsters and threats or should i provide them with the MM at some point just to look through then hit them with that possibilty later on in a different session?
Oh, and if you're going to do a "road encounter," you'll want to make it so whatever the scene is about, what it's NOT about is monsters trying to kill the PCs. Because what happens here is you want an encounter to spice up the travel, so you'll make it such that it's not an actual threat to the PCs because you want them to get to the dungeon or whatever right? That's kind of lame and you're wasting valuable session time on outcomes that are known (PCs will defeat these mook goblins, etc.).

BUT, if you make the encounter about something other than that, it will be challenging and interesting. Double points if you can have it tied to the adventure scenario is an interesting way. For example, perhaps a monastery along the way is being raided by vikings. The vikings are there for spoils in the form of the monastery's golden relics and icons. They didn't come all this way to die on the PCs' swords. So set up a goal for the monsters: "To get dat booty" or whatever and have them focus on that solely with any direct attacks on the PCs as a means to that end. Mechanically, you could say that if a viking ends the combat round adjacent to the monastery's altar, the altar gets a "strike" as it gets looted. If the vikings manage to get three "strikes" on the altar, they've looted and desecrated it and then get the hell out of dodge. The scene ends with the PCs having saved the relics or not and having been challenged, but their lives were probably not in real danger. Carry on with the adventure and carry forward any benefits or complications that monastery scene suggests.

Make sense?

For any decision or adjudication, ask yourself, "Is this going to be fun for everyone?" and "Is this going to lead to the creation of an exciting, memorable story?"

DMs: Dungeon Master 101  |  Session Zero  |  How to Adjudicate Actions  |  No Myth Roleplaying  |  5e Monster Index & Encounter Calculator
Players: Players 101  |  11 Ways to Be a Better Roleplayer  |  You Are Not Your Character  |  Pre-Gen D&D 5e PCs

Content I Created: Adventure Scenarios  |  Actual Play Reports  |  Tools  |  Game Transcripts

Follow me on Twitter: @is3rith

This is an interesting concept to me. As i said before we are all new to the playing DnD. We played with a friend for a couple sessions but he decided he didn't want to keep it going so i volunteered to DM as we all enjoyed the experience in just the couple sessions. There knowledge is restricted to the what is provided in the players handbook so they dont have a working knowledge of monsters that exist in the monster manual.



Everyone has some idea of what a monster is, even if they've never played D&D. We grew up with them in nursery rhymes, books, movies, comics, etc. They needn't come out of the pages of the Monster Manual. A three-year-old could suggest a monster if you asked him or her.

I i hit them with an open ended question like that i feel like i would get blank stares from them.



Maybe. But that's usually because they're thinking there's a "right" answer. There isn't. Whatever they say is right. Tell them that. If they're still struggling, answer the question yourself to show what you mean and move on. Don't linger on an awkward moment.

If they do happen to come up with an answer, would i be allowing them to create monsters and threats or should i provide them with the MM at some point just to look through then hit them with that possibilty later on in a different session?



What I was suggesting was a scene that "happened" in the context of the game but didn't get "played out." There will be no tactical combat in the moment, so they can suggest whatever monsters they like and how they overcame them. You can bring those monsters back later, if you want. Or not. The goal in this interaction is to allow everyone to brainstorm and exercise their creativity, get used to saying "Yes" to each other's ideas, and suggest to the DM things that the players are interested in seeing later.

For any decision or adjudication, ask yourself, "Is this going to be fun for everyone?" and "Is this going to lead to the creation of an exciting, memorable story?"

DMs: Dungeon Master 101  |  Session Zero  |  How to Adjudicate Actions  |  No Myth Roleplaying  |  5e Monster Index & Encounter Calculator
Players: Players 101  |  11 Ways to Be a Better Roleplayer  |  You Are Not Your Character  |  Pre-Gen D&D 5e PCs

Content I Created: Adventure Scenarios  |  Actual Play Reports  |  Tools  |  Game Transcripts

Follow me on Twitter: @is3rith

That makes a lot of sense, actually. Their first encounter was a fight against a group of kobolds that had inhabited a local farm outside of the city. All the players knew was that the farmer was in need of help and the kobolds needed to be killed. What they didn't know at the time was that the kobolds invaded the farm because they were run out of their home by a cult that had the intention of using the abandoned temple as a shrine to neruul. This is something we are working toward one encounter at a time


What I was suggesting was a scene that "happened" in the context of the game but didn't get "played out." There will be no tactical combat in the moment, so they can suggest whatever monsters they like and how they overcame them. You can bring those monsters back later, if you want. Or not. The goal in this interaction is to allow everyone to brainstorm and exercise their creativity, get used to saying "Yes" to each other's ideas, and suggest to the DM things that the players are interested in seeing later.


 I understand that it was just something happened. The reason I asked, I guess, was that in the event that I was to use them later on, but that was just me asking a question without giving it though as i could just create specs for whatever they decided they saw if it didnt already exist. 

I apologize if these seemed like dumb questions. 
 I understand that it was just something happened. The reason I asked, I guess, was that in the event that I was to use them later on, but that was just me asking a question without giving it though as i could just create specs for whatever they decided they saw if it didnt already exist.



Yes, absolutely. 4e in particular makes this easy. If they name a monster that's in the books, great. If not, just reflavor an existing stat block and use them later if it makes sense to.

I apologize if these seemed like dumb questions. 



No need! There is no such thing as a dumb question. Especially since what I'm suggesting you try is a little different than the way most games handle the situation.

For any decision or adjudication, ask yourself, "Is this going to be fun for everyone?" and "Is this going to lead to the creation of an exciting, memorable story?"

DMs: Dungeon Master 101  |  Session Zero  |  How to Adjudicate Actions  |  No Myth Roleplaying  |  5e Monster Index & Encounter Calculator
Players: Players 101  |  11 Ways to Be a Better Roleplayer  |  You Are Not Your Character  |  Pre-Gen D&D 5e PCs

Content I Created: Adventure Scenarios  |  Actual Play Reports  |  Tools  |  Game Transcripts

Follow me on Twitter: @is3rith

I apologize if these seemed like dumb questions. 



No need! There is no such thing as a dumb question. Especially since what I'm suggesting you try is a little different than the way most games handle the situation.



In my experience the only dumb question is the one never asked.

Getting back on topic...

As a DM, I used to fill all travel days with two to four random "perception checks."  This was an attempt on my part to create tension when none really existed.  So that when the real tension came, my players would not be fully aware of it and respond accordingly.  I would decsribe random common wilderness events: a large bird of prey divebombing the treeline, a deer/doe just off the road looking up at the party as they passed by, movement to one side or another but not really knowing what moved, etc.

The key phrase in all that is "used to."  I came to the conclusion, mostly from reading these forums, that what I was doing was completely unnecessary.  Yes, I still throw in the occasional travel encounter, but as iserith points out, only when it is intended to pose or answer a question.  Otherwise I simply narrate the travel, or I pose the question to the players, "you will be travelling for X days on a well travelled and safe road.  Is there anything you want to do with that time?"

 

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg)

Are you really "entitled to your opinion"?
RedSiegfried wrote:
The cool thing is, you don't even NEED a reason to say yes.  Just stop looking for a reason to say no.
An approach I like to describing the passage of time between big scenes was described in the D20 Call of Cthulhu RPG book:

"Montages:  ...describe, as an impressionistic montage of experiences, the hurried packing of gear into the cramped commercial airplane, the tire fires on the runways at Kinshasa, the suspicious expressions of the river pilots, encounters with a militia or mercenary group, and maybe even a crocadile attack.  You could even run very abbreviated scenes of combat against rebels or primitive tribes, or just run a 'typical day on the river' scene.  By presenting the elapsed time as a montage, not only do you draw the players into the story, you can also build suspense or foreshadow themes or plot points...." (pg. 218)

This sort of thing turns up a lot in the old adventure serials and jungle movies that inspired the Indiana Jones movies - think of the parts of any old jungle movie where the safari rides down a river and points at all the stock footage of wildlife... overlay a map of the area showing the heroes' progress, and add some adventurous music, and you've probably got the idea.  (It also turns up in the "training montage" scenes where the hero of a martial-arts or sports movie goes from zero to hero in a few scenes of training, or when the A-Team or Arnold Schwarzenegers's character in Predator starts putting their plans together with scenes of building weapons and traps and putting on disguises....)

It's kind of a nice way to fast-forward past the bits that don't have a direct, important impact on the plot or on character development, while still sketching in the holes.  They can suggest that time is passing and cool stuff is happening without getting bogged down in the details, and set the atmosphere and setting for the climactic scenes that follow. 

This can be done without stopping the main game for more than a handful of short descriptions and maybe an optional quick combat or two, so, as long as it's not long, even a bad montage scene doesn't get a chance to wear out its welcome.  And, it's not incompatible with the other suggestions made above, so it can be used in addition to or in place of other options, wherever it feels right for you.


In any case, as long as you are filling even a trip between dungeons or encounters with heroic adventure for the PCs and you and the players are both having fun, then you are "winning" at D&D



Edited to add:  It's probably the best time and place to describe details about your game setting, too.  You could either spend an hour before the game session telling your players all about the three major gods in your game world's pantheon, and another hour describing all the various cities in the surrounding area, only to have the players forget all about that stuff later... or, you could save descriptions for later, when you spend a few seconds describing how the PCs pass an eerie shrine to one of those gods half-hidden in the jungle on their way to the next dungeon, after a few seconds of describing a friendly village that welcome the Heroes and treat them well, and before describing narratively a quick fight with exotic wildlife which the PCs fend off with no problems, while giving a quick word-picture or two of the majestic/ominous/mysterious scenery....
[spoiler New DM Tips]
  • Trying to solve out-of-game problems (like cheating, bad attitudes, or poor sportsmanship) with in-game solutions will almost always result in failure, and will probably make matters worse.
  • Gun Safety Rule #5: Never point the gun at anything you don't intend to destroy. (Never introduce a character, PC, NPC, Villain, or fate of the world into even the possibility of a deadly combat or other dangerous situation, unless you are prepared to destroy it instantly and completely forever.)
  • Know your group's character sheets, and check them over carefully. You don't want surprises, but, more importantly, they are a gold mine of ideas!
  • "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." It's a problem if the players aren't having fun and it interferes with a DM's ability to run the game effectively; if it's not a problem, 'fixing' at best does little to help, and at worst causes problems that didn't exist before.
  • "Hulk Smash" characters are a bad match for open-ended exploration in crowds of civilians; get them out of civilization where they can break things and kill monsters in peace.
  • Success is not necessarily the same thing as killing an opponent. Failure is not necessarily the same thing as dying.
  • Failure is always an option. And it's a fine option, too, as long as failure is interesting, entertaining, and fun!
[/spoiler] The New DM's Group Horror in RPGs "This is exactly what the Leprechauns want you to believe!" - Merb101 "Broken or not, unbalanced or not, if something seems to be preventing the game from being enjoyable, something has to give: either that thing, or other aspects of the game, or your idea of what's enjoyable." - Centauri
Should I be putting more description into the journey



Yes. 
At least some.  Because this gives the players an image of what the world their characters are traveling though "looks" like.


or adding encounters along the way?



Maybe.
This is where generating a few lists of what used to be called "Wandering Monsters" (wich don't have to be monsters/opponnents) comes in handy.
Decide how long the journey takes.
Decide what the odds are of encountering something are within certain intervals.  You shouldn't tell the players what those odds are set at.
Roll to see if an encounter happens - have the players roll this, it keeps them active.
If an encounter is indicated, then Roll on chart.  Once again, I like to have the players roll this.
Sometimes though?  Have the players roll a Wandering Monster check even though you know there's not going to be one.  


I feel like neither are really important when you look at the bigger picture for the adventure,



This is where your wrong.  This stuff adds description & depth to the world the PCs are in & can serve as very important springboards for future/additional stories & quests.

For ex, let me briefly tell you my groups tale of the Bullywug King & the Pan-Lung....
This important bit of our game began its life as nothing more than a simple roll on a random encounter list.
So the party was trekking through the great swamp on their way back from raiding the lair of some lizardmen.  It was going to take them a few days.  Every so many hours there was a chance of encountering some swamp-appropriate creature.  Giant snakes, crocodiles, the local NPC ranger, misc. hunting parties of lizardmen, bullywugs, etc.  even a black dragon!  Oh, & something called a Pan-Lung.
So one of the encounters they rolled up turned out to be a hunting party of bullywugs.  Ok, nothing exceptional here.  It's just a quick fight for a handfull of xp.  But now it's established that there ARE bullywugs in this swamp!
Later on (several sessions later), as the Lizardmen plot thickens & continues to develop, one of the PCs decides - & persuades the others - that it'd be a good idea to enlist the aid of the bullywug king.
???
Wait, I never said there was a bullywug king (and as the DM I should know...)  Those 6 bullywugs with spears existed only as 1 line of text on a random table!

But off deeper into the swamp the groups went....
Several hours of DM improving (called Winging It/Making **** Up) later by the end of the session they do indeed attain an audience with the bullywug king.
Great, now I know what to prep for next week!
Next week comes & RP negotiations ensue.  The B.King tells them that he'll aid them - but only if they'll aid him 1st.  Turns out that the tribes been driven from its ancestral home (a partially sunken city) by this evil thing called a Pan-Lung.  Bring me the Pan-Lungs head & I'll send 100 warriors to aid you in your fight against the lizardmen.
The PCs agree.  
Never once asking what exactly a Pan-Lung is.   Of they go....
Now it's established that there's a sunken city & a Pan-Lung in the area.  and that the bullywugs are at odds with the thing.

Several more very entertaining sessions of exploring a ruined, sinking, city later?  They discover that a Pan-Lung is a Chineese water dragon.  That it's a force of good.  And that it is 110% out of their league as a combat encounter & that thanks to the actions of the parties barbarian it has no interest in directly aiding them on the field of battle. (although it nigh invulnerable to the PCs it can be insulted)  It does give them some vital information that helps them with the original LM problem though.

The Bullywug "kingdom", the Pan-Lung, the sinking city & a few other details continue to be important in our games to this day (at least when adventuring in that area of the world) 5 years later.

Not bad for a random d10 roll, resulting in a handfull of irellivant bullywugs, made while trekking through a swamp.
  
Fantastic excamples, CCS!

I think that the random encounter tables have rather fallen out of fashion, but I think that you've given a fine demonstration that they can be an excellent source of non-combat story ideas for PCs as well as the DM when not necessarily everything on the table exists to be ground up into XP.

Those moments where the players come up with an idea that the DM hadn't counted on, and the DM writes that idea into the plot, are always one of my favorite parts of the game.  Sometimes it works out beautifully, sometimes the improv is a little shaky, but it's still an exciting moment of the game, and one of the things that got me hooked.


As an aside to the original poster - don't forget, too, that one of your most priceless and powerful storytelling tools as a DM is your Players!  There's absolutely nothing wrong with saying something like "you set off with your small caravan of supplies on your two week journey through the Desert of Sorrows to the Haunted Pyramids... on only the second day of marching through the bleached white dunes, you see something remarkable out among the shifting sands.  What was it?"  Chances are good that, perhaps with only a little encouragement, your players can suggest more great ideas for what their characters encounter than you can fit into a mere two-week journey....
[spoiler New DM Tips]
  • Trying to solve out-of-game problems (like cheating, bad attitudes, or poor sportsmanship) with in-game solutions will almost always result in failure, and will probably make matters worse.
  • Gun Safety Rule #5: Never point the gun at anything you don't intend to destroy. (Never introduce a character, PC, NPC, Villain, or fate of the world into even the possibility of a deadly combat or other dangerous situation, unless you are prepared to destroy it instantly and completely forever.)
  • Know your group's character sheets, and check them over carefully. You don't want surprises, but, more importantly, they are a gold mine of ideas!
  • "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." It's a problem if the players aren't having fun and it interferes with a DM's ability to run the game effectively; if it's not a problem, 'fixing' at best does little to help, and at worst causes problems that didn't exist before.
  • "Hulk Smash" characters are a bad match for open-ended exploration in crowds of civilians; get them out of civilization where they can break things and kill monsters in peace.
  • Success is not necessarily the same thing as killing an opponent. Failure is not necessarily the same thing as dying.
  • Failure is always an option. And it's a fine option, too, as long as failure is interesting, entertaining, and fun!
[/spoiler] The New DM's Group Horror in RPGs "This is exactly what the Leprechauns want you to believe!" - Merb101 "Broken or not, unbalanced or not, if something seems to be preventing the game from being enjoyable, something has to give: either that thing, or other aspects of the game, or your idea of what's enjoyable." - Centauri
I use skill challenges for travel and other things, my "trek thru the wilderness" involves the possible loss of surges (due to fatigue, inclement weather, various road hazards, minor encounters etc), which can only be recovered 1/day, so assuming there is a time limit on the quest completion, it will hinder their efforts a bit.

Then just weave in a narrative to the challenge, and you have a meaningful but short interlude. 
Ok, so this is a very noob question, but it is something i just can't seem to come up with a way to handle it. How does one address the passage of time in the game and make it entertaining without bogging down the actual plan for the day? Ill give an example. My PCs were to travel to a cave a day from their city to gather some materials to help the mages guild. I thought that the only important details were the preparing for the quest, gathering the supplies, and reaping the rewards. However, I was apparently incorrect. After they prepared for the quest and they decided they were ready they rested for the night and decided to leave early the next morning. 
Player: ok we are ready to leave for the cave
me: ok you should meet up with the mages so you can begin
player: OK we travel to the gates where they are waiting for us
Me:  ok you all leave together to go gather the supplies. you arrive just as night falls what would you like to do?
(this is apparently where i went wrong as they felt like it should have been a more eventful travel and not just an "aaaaand now you're there. GO" kind of experience)

As I am sure you have already deduced that we are all new to the experience as a whole, I was curious how the more experienced DMs handle travel over time or having to wait for a period of time.  



Try explaining to your players that the game is more interesting if you "skip to" the cinematic parts, instead of describing and narrating every minute of a travel, etc. There's a certian expectations that players have: we're going to be other people, let's live their lives! Ime, once they experience the "skipthrough" method most players prefer it.
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