D&D Next Q&A: How Downtime Interacts with Legacy, Healing & Backgrounds

The term, downtime, has to go.  But I like that there are efforts to broaden character development/options while not in the saddle.

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

The term, downtime, has to go.  But I like that there are efforts to broaden character development/options while not in the saddle.


I prefer to call them “enterprises” - they are projects, businesses, ambitions, hobbies, endeavors.

I wonder if it will turn out like Traveller, with PCs who try to actively avoid adventuring as long as possible in order to build up skills and traits and backgrounds.

"So, we had a good haul. we take 5 years off; thats 260 training chances each!"

Aging and stat loss may have to make a comeback...
Just to voice it, I like "downtime" as a term.  It's what you do between adventures, and it's typically concentrated and abstracted.  It's the time when you're not playing the "main game".  It's not Adventure Time, it's Down Time.
For various projects, money expenditure is appropriate for flavor. But money is worthless for mechanical balance.
I really like, that picking up skills is not limited by level. It has never made sense and I am glad, you now can earn something meaningful by roleplaying and advancing your character.
Just to voice it, I like "downtime" as a term.  It's what you do between adventures, and it's typically concentrated and abstracted.  It's the time when you're not playing the "main game".  It's not Adventure Time, it's Down Time.


The problem is, these projects require extensive extreme effort. A person pursuing a project is extremely busy. “Downtime” is the opposite of what is happening.

Downtime "does provide a mechanical framework that the rules modules and subsystems collectively referred to as the Legacy system will plug into."

Does this mean that upon reaching Legacy tier players will recieve vastly less non-downtime powers per level?  That really isn't a game I am eager to play.  Classes really don't get enough powers (in combat alone, not to mention the other pillars) over their 20 levels to keep me interested as it is.  If the majority of my Legacy progression is going to be aimed at downtime, I am likely to find some other venue to satisfy my gaming urge.
The problem is, these projects require extensive extreme effort. A person pursuing a project is extremely busy. “Downtime” is the opposite of what is happening.


"What do you do in your downtime?"
"Oh, I run a football league and volunteer to build homes for the homeless and I'm campagning for some human rights thing."
"I see.  What do you do for a living?"
"Oh, I'm a dentist".

The amount of concentration and effort involved doesn't make it not downtime.  Downtime is basically just when your responsibilities aren't making demands on you, like your job and your family.  Uptime is what you "have" to do.  Downtime is, as a rule, your choice.

That seems weird in this context, but an adventurer's "job", "raison d'être", whatever, is to "adventure".  Anything else, is downtime.
Downtime "does provide a mechanical framework that the rules modules and subsystems collectively referred to as the Legacy system will plug into."

Does this mean that upon reaching Legacy tier players will recieve vastly less non-downtime powers per level?  That really isn't a game I am eager to play.  Classes really don't get enough powers (in combat alone, not to mention the other pillars) over their 20 levels to keep me interested as it is.  If the majority of my Legacy progression is going to be aimed at downtime, I am likely to find some other venue to satisfy my gaming urge.



If I'm not mistaken here, "Legacy System" just means "old rules" (or an approximation thereof).
Good answers, though the disconnect from the level system does mean that there is a harmful potential for imbalance -- if someone made a character and claims the character's spent 10 years as an artisan before ever touching a sword, and thus has several more skills. Wherever the rules for skills and down time are listed, I think a DM blurb about the average expected amount of skills based on level would be, and how deviation should be monitored.

And I'm all for the name "down time," especially if it means that we get to use "adventure time" as a rules term. I'm picturing it now: we finish the down time, and I ask the table "So, guys, what time is it!?"

I expect that they'll facepalm, sigh and maybe even flip the table. Especially after the hundredth time. 
I don't use emoticons, and I'm also pretty pleasant. So if I say something that's rude or insulting, it's probably a joke.
The problem is, these projects require extensive extreme effort. A person pursuing a project is extremely busy. “Downtime” is the opposite of what is happening.


"What do you do in your downtime?"
"Oh, I run a football league and volunteer to build homes for the homeless and I'm campagning for some human rights thing."
"I see.  What do you do for a living?"
"Oh, I'm a dentist".

The amount of concentration and effort involved doesn't make it not downtime.  Downtime is basically just when your responsibilities aren't making demands on you, like your job and your family.  Uptime is what you "have" to do.  Downtime is, as a rule, your choice.

That seems weird in this context, but an adventurer's "job", "raison d'être", whatever, is to "adventure".  Anything else, is downtime.


When is leading an army downtime? Or running a town or nation?

My only problem with the downtime idea is that I've never really been in a campaign where the characters ever took a month off, even a week off is rare. It would benefit a casual adventuring group a lot more than one involved in an epic story where time is always of the essense.

Maybe it could include other modes than "downtime." Like, take a tome with you and spend a little time each day on an adventure learning a new language or knowledge, or take a new kind of weapon with you and spend time gaining proficiency with it. It would take longer than learning the new thing during downtime, but it would allow players of different play styles to benefit.
Good answers, though the disconnect from the level system does mean that there is a harmful potential for imbalance -- if someone made a character and claims the character's spent 10 years as an artisan before ever touching a sword, and thus has several more skills. Wherever the rules for skills and down time are listed, I think a DM blurb about the average expected amount of skills based on level would be, and how deviation should be monitored.

And I'm all for the name "down time," especially if it means that we get to use "adventure time" as a rules term. I'm picturing it now: we finish the down time, and I ask the table "So, guys, what time is it!?"

I expect that they'll facepalm, sigh and maybe even flip the table. Especially after the hundredth time.


There can probably be tier prerequisites, if not level prereqs.

1-2 Apprentice
3-9 Journeyer/Adventurer
10-15 Master
16-20 Founder/Legacy
When is leading an army downtime? Or running a town or nation?


When it's optional, and it's not your job.

That said, I think leading an army (into battle, form the front) is totally Adventure Time.  (Though just training them and handling logistics and so forth would certainly qualify as something that an adventurer does in his downtime.)
So this basically what I suggested last year.

Create a crafting system, business system, henchmen system, castle/church/den/tower management system, and social system.

Give higher level and richer PCs have bonuses to these systems.

Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds. Constitution Based Class for Next!

When is leading an army downtime? Or running a town or nation?

Ooh, ok.  I would have  just edited this in, but it's probably too late.

I'll grant that PCs can take on responsibilites that might seem awkward to call "downtime".  Fair enoguh.  But that doesn't mean that it wasn't "downtime" to begin with.

DM: "Ok, you've got a month to do whatever you want."
Paladin: "I lead an army to clear out the Bandit Forest."
Thief: "I'll drink until my money runs out."

Just because the Paladin chose to ruin his downtime doesn't mean it wasn't his to begin with, yes?
"When is leading an army downtime? Or running a town or nation?"

When it's not your job.


Downtime has two meanings:


: time during which production is stopped especially during setup for an operation or when making repairs


2

: inactive time (as between periods of work) downtime> downtime>




I think definition 1 is being used, a stop in production (of dead monsters and treasure) in order to setup and make repairs.
I wonder if it will turn out like Traveller, with PCs who try to actively avoid adventuring as long as possible in order to build up skills and traits and backgrounds.

"So, we had a good haul. we take 5 years off; thats 260 training chances each!"

Wow, pretty disciplined PCs.

We'd go:

"So, we had a good haul. That'll pay for booze and w****s for 5 years! "
Downtime isn't the worst word...  but i feel there could be a better one.


Anyone have a suggestion?

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my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

"Wow, pretty disciplined PCs.

We'd go:

"So, we had a good haul. That'll pay for booze and w****s for 5 years! "


Clearly you have all chosen to take Skill Supremacy: Carousing.
Downtime "does provide a mechanical framework that the rules modules and subsystems collectively referred to as the Legacy system will plug into."

Does this mean that upon reaching Legacy tier players will recieve vastly less non-downtime powers per level?  That really isn't a game I am eager to play.  Classes really don't get enough powers (in combat alone, not to mention the other pillars) over their 20 levels to keep me interested as it is.  If the majority of my Legacy progression is going to be aimed at downtime, I am likely to find some other venue to satisfy my gaming urge.



If I'm not mistaken here, "Legacy System" just means "old rules" (or an approximation thereof).

I believe you are mistaken here.  The Legacy system I believe refers to a system of rules/powers applied to characters above a certain level.  Before the addition/invention of Apprentice levels, it was to start at level 11.  If I recall correctly it is now supposed to begin around level 13 or 14.  The Legacy rules haven't been seen outside of WotC, so they haven't been playtested by "the masses" like us yet.  The term Legacy was used to show that these rules were designed to help high level players leave a legacy/long term impact upon their gaming world (which also annoys me, as many high level characters I have seen played have had no desire to leave any impact upon the world they live in).
I believe you are mistaken here.  The Legacy system I believe refers to a system of rules/powers applied to characters above a certain level.  Before the addition/invention of Apprentice levels, it was to start at level 11.  If I recall correctly it is now supposed to begin around level 13 or 14.  The Legacy rules haven't been seen outside of WotC, so they haven't been playtested by "the masses" like us yet.  The term Legacy was used to show that these rules were designed to help high level players leave a legacy/long term impact upon their gaming world (which also annoys me, as many high level characters I have seen played have had no desire to leave any impact upon the world they live in).


Fair enough.  That would explain the weird capitalization.
Downtime "does provide a mechanical framework that the rules modules and subsystems collectively referred to as the Legacy system will plug into."

Does this mean that upon reaching Legacy tier players will recieve vastly less non-downtime powers per level?  That really isn't a game I am eager to play.  Classes really don't get enough powers (in combat alone, not to mention the other pillars) over their 20 levels to keep me interested as it is.  If the majority of my Legacy progression is going to be aimed at downtime, I am likely to find some other venue to satisfy my gaming urge.



If I'm not mistaken here, "Legacy System" just means "old rules" (or an approximation thereof).

I believe you are mistaken here.  The Legacy system I believe refers to a system of rules/powers applied to characters above a certain level.  Before the addition/invention of Apprentice levels, it was to start at level 11.  If I recall correctly it is now supposed to begin around level 13 or 14.  The Legacy rules haven't been seen outside of WotC, so they haven't been playtested by "the masses" like us yet.  The term Legacy was used to show that these rules were designed to help high level players leave a legacy/long term impact upon their gaming world (which also annoys me, as many high level characters I have seen played have had no desire to leave any impact upon the world they live in).


Where are you getting your details from?

Last I checked legacy starts at 16.  That's literally the only number that has ever come out of WoTC in relation to the idea last I checked.
My character had downtime for 6 years so he has a castle, an army, and knows all skills and traits. What? You don't believe me? What kind of DM are you if you don't believe me? Wink

I'm just assuming at this point that the play test is one big joke and 5E will turn out to be something entirely different...Smile
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
I suggest we call it..

 
Downtime "does provide a mechanical framework that the rules modules and subsystems collectively referred to as the Legacy system will plug into."

Does this mean that upon reaching Legacy tier players will recieve vastly less non-downtime powers per level?  That really isn't a game I am eager to play.  Classes really don't get enough powers (in combat alone, not to mention the other pillars) over their 20 levels to keep me interested as it is.  If the majority of my Legacy progression is going to be aimed at downtime, I am likely to find some other venue to satisfy my gaming urge.



If I'm not mistaken here, "Legacy System" just means "old rules" (or an approximation thereof).

I believe you are mistaken here.  The Legacy system I believe refers to a system of rules/powers applied to characters above a certain level.  Before the addition/invention of Apprentice levels, it was to start at level 11.  If I recall correctly it is now supposed to begin around level 13 or 14.  The Legacy rules haven't been seen outside of WotC, so they haven't been playtested by "the masses" like us yet.  The term Legacy was used to show that these rules were designed to help high level players leave a legacy/long term impact upon their gaming world (which also annoys me, as many high level characters I have seen played have had no desire to leave any impact upon the world they live in).


Where are you getting your details from?

Last I checked legacy starts at 16.  That's literally the only number that has ever come out of WoTC in relation to the idea last I checked.

This mentions powers ramping down at 10th, and legacy systems being the new thing for higher level play.  It is old and dated, but it is also the first reference to the legacy system I can quickly find.

www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4...

You are right that on April 1st they put the Legacy tier at 16th, not 13th/14th as I had previously thought.
Downtime isn't the worst word...  but i feel there could be a better one.


Anyone have a suggestion?

Interlude, recess, hiatus...



It seems confusing to have a separator in the first place.  When uptime and downtime continue to push the plot then the story is seemless by default.  I only see this as ulitimately marginalizing and fracturing playstyles.

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

My only problem with the downtime idea is that I've never really been in a campaign where the characters ever took a month off, even a week off is rare. It would benefit a casual adventuring group a lot more than one involved in an epic story where time is always of the essense.

Maybe it could include other modes than "downtime." Like, take a tome with you and spend a little time each day on an adventure learning a new language or knowledge, or take a new kind of weapon with you and spend time gaining proficiency with it. It would take longer than learning the new thing during downtime, but it would allow players of different play styles to benefit.



You make a good point. It directly contradicts the most effective way to prevent the 5 minute work day. So they seem to be making bad decisions then...Smile
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
The term, downtime, has to go.  But I like that there are efforts to broaden character development/options while not in the saddle.


I prefer to call them “enterprises” - they are projects, businesses, ambitions, hobbies, endeavors.




Agreed. While downtime is a misleading word, personal enterprise is not. It's more evocative than downtime, because even if downtime may be interpreted as "doing something" it's not what most people will think of at first.

The One Ring called it the "Fellowship Phase", where everyone goes on it's own personal agenda for a short to relatively long period of time in between adventure - and it's misguiding as a name since we are not doing anything near fellowship actions but more personal enterprises.

On another note, if I understand correctly what Rodney is saying about the legacy system, it should use the "framework" of this downtime segment of gameplay. To me, if Legacy is still an alternate end-game part of Next in devs' minds, that means that some "downtime" actions would necessitate a high level to be possible - which is pretty confusing with what is said about what we can expect from these downtime actions. If we look at the example Rodney gives, spell research, I hope spell casters won't have to wait until high level to be able to do that. Need to see this system in order to understand the meaning of all this.

Finally, I hope we'll be able to have a glimpse on this soon because it's seems very interesting.

I think the point of Legacy was that PCs of a certain level became too rich, powerful, and important to goof around randomly slaying stuff and start to do things with their wealth and power. Especially if they have brooding enemies and long term goals.

But enough people like myself complained that PCs can do stuff other than adventure at lower levels. So we have downtime.

Adventure time, Downtime, Dead Time, and Tool Time.

Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds. Constitution Based Class for Next!

Downtime "does provide a mechanical framework that the rules modules and subsystems collectively referred to as the Legacy system will plug into."

Does this mean that upon reaching Legacy tier players will recieve vastly less non-downtime powers per level?  That really isn't a game I am eager to play.  Classes really don't get enough powers (in combat alone, not to mention the other pillars) over their 20 levels to keep me interested as it is.  If the majority of my Legacy progression is going to be aimed at downtime, I am likely to find some other venue to satisfy my gaming urge.



If I'm not mistaken here, "Legacy System" just means "old rules" (or an approximation thereof).

I believe you are mistaken here.  The Legacy system I believe refers to a system of rules/powers applied to characters above a certain level.  Before the addition/invention of Apprentice levels, it was to start at level 11.  If I recall correctly it is now supposed to begin around level 13 or 14.  The Legacy rules haven't been seen outside of WotC, so they haven't been playtested by "the masses" like us yet.  The term Legacy was used to show that these rules were designed to help high level players leave a legacy/long term impact upon their gaming world (which also annoys me, as many high level characters I have seen played have had no desire to leave any impact upon the world they live in).


Where are you getting your details from?

Last I checked legacy starts at 16.  That's literally the only number that has ever come out of WoTC in relation to the idea last I checked.

This mentions powers ramping down at 10th, and legacy systems being the new thing for higher level play.  It is old and dated, but it is also the first reference to the legacy system I can quickly find.

www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4...

You are right that on April 1st they put the Legacy tier at 16th, not 13th/14th as I had previously thought.



Ah I see where your confusion comes from based on the article you presented, however they never gave a number in that article saying where legacy would start.  Just that it would kick in at some point in the higher levels.  In fact the reference to 10th level in that article is merely noting that at one point they entertained the idea of only having 10 levels, and that they really want to change the tone of high level play and reduce the crazy power gain at higher levels.
I really like, that picking up skills is not limited by level. It has never made sense and I am glad, you now can earn something meaningful by roleplaying and advancing your character.


I agree.  I just hope they entend that to feats as well.  I mean, if a caster can spend downtime and money to find/research spells, then I don't think it's too much to expect that characters can find trainers for feats.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

I really like, that picking up skills is not limited by level. It has never made sense and I am glad, you now can earn something meaningful by roleplaying and advancing your character.


I agree.  I just hope they entend that to feats as well.  I mean, if a caster can spend downtime and money to find/research spells, then I don't think it's too much to expect that characters can find trainers for feats.



By the way, there is a feat that should disappear in this system : Superior Skill Training. It won't make any sense if one can gain two skills just like that while others have to spend litterally weeks or months to gain one.
I really like, that picking up skills is not limited by level. It has never made sense and I am glad, you now can earn something meaningful by roleplaying and advancing your character.


I agree.  I just hope they entend that to feats as well.  I mean, if a caster can spend downtime and money to find/research spells, then I don't think it's too much to expect that characters can find trainers for feats.



By the way, there is a feat that should disappear in this system : Superior Skill Training. It won't make any sense if one can gain two skills just like that while others have to spend litterally weeks or months to gain one.




Feats are being completely overhauled in the next packet.
I wonder if it will turn out like Traveller, with PCs who try to actively avoid adventuring as long as possible in order to build up skills and traits and backgrounds.

"So, we had a good haul. we take 5 years off; thats 260 training chances each!"

Wow, pretty disciplined PCs.

We'd go:

"So, we had a good haul. That'll pay for booze and w****s for 5 years! "


Honestly, I think this is more likely.  PCs have way more income potential because of adventuring than they could in any non-adventuring job (except maybe royalty).  And I don't see many PCs getting a good haul then living as a subsistance farmer to stretch it out for the rest of their natural lives.  Instead, PCs usually live high on the hog when they've got gold and go adventuring when they don't.  In that regard, they're a lot like pirates.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

When is leading an army downtime? Or running a town or nation?

Ooh, ok.  I would have  just edited this in, but it's probably too late.

I'll grant that PCs can take on responsibilites that might seem awkward to call "downtime".  Fair enoguh.  But that doesn't mean that it wasn't "downtime" to begin with.

DM: "Ok, you've got a month to do whatever you want."
Paladin: "I lead an army to clear out the Bandit Forest."
Thief: "I'll drink until my money runs out."

Just because the Paladin chose to ruin his downtime doesn't mean it wasn't his to begin with, yes?



It would only be downtime if no real treat is involved.

so the level 12 paladin cleaning the forest from level 1 bandits.
ok you spend one month cleaning the bandits from the forest some of your folowers get ligtly wounded but your reputation with the villages around the forrest increases by 1

ok you spend a month in the difrent bars and inns drinking.
you make some friends doing so if you need to roll to gather info on local afairs in this area you gain a +2 bonus. 
PCs are like lottery winners with superpowers.

Add in the fact that the high level they get, the more power a tool or obstacle they are to other people. Adventuring all year round isn't sensible when you teleport to another plane and wreck hundred dudes there unless the DM rams plots at you. If they aren't battling enemies, they are partying and making another weapon to stop the next enemy who'll show up or the last one who got away.

Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds. Constitution Based Class for Next!

1 I like how downtime will provide a mechanical framework that allow class features, backgrounds, and so forth to unlock new things to do during downtime possibly accessing unique rewards. I could see a spy background passing downtime to find new contacts for exemple.

2  Again i like how downtime mechanic could allow rules module interaction like grievous wounds or even disease to use recuperating action to pass downtime to heal or shake off effects. I could see poison and curse also being healed from during downtime at certain cost for exemple.

3 If downtime can be used by characters to learn new proficiencies, languages, fields of lore between adventures, this could help them grow outside of the feat system and that is a good thing.

Very good article. The downtime system and the legacy system have great potential.

Now I really think that running an army, business, castle, empire and something alike is downtime. Yes it is an important activity and your PC has something to do while not adventuring, but unless there is some connection to an adventure or action or something that evolves tension, it is time that will not be the focus of an adventure.
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