Poll: How much extra should crit's do?

When you crit, you should do about...


Current Leaders...

Max  (~50%)
Double (100%)
Special Effect (restrain, stun, ect..)



For reference..  assuming 1d8+2 at level 1 -> 5d8+5 at level 20.

Old packet (max + die) = 123% -> 80%
This packet (+ die)       = 69% -> 16%
Just Maximized             = 53% -> 63%

5e houserules and tweaks.

Celestial Link Evoking Radiance into Creation

A Party Without Music is Lame: A Bard

Level Dip Guide

 

4e stuff

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I don't see an option for it, but I vote "exactly as much damage as any other hit."

This isn't a system that measures degree of success. It's a simple d20, pass/fail. We have the damage roll to determine how much damage you deal.

The metagame is not the game.

Double (+100%) damage.  Roll twice as many dice (no maximize).


Normally I'd say my favorite style of criticals is the traditional: 20/x2 for all weapons.
Not a fan of the huge criticals in 3e, nor this meagre "extra scratch" we have in this packet.

But doubling with Deadly Strike will lead to huge spikes of damage.
To be frank I'm not sure what would be best for a Deadly Strike system.

My only true suggestion is to drop Deadly Strike entirely and just come back with multiple attacks. Solves not only the issues with criticals but lots of other issues I have with Next combat right now.

Max weapon damage + your level.

So a long sword critical with 16 Strength, 4th level, no other modifiers does 15 damage: 8+3+4.

Simple to figure out, never a poorer result than a normal roll,  and escalating value as you level.

Guaranteed at least 6 damage
Guaranteed over 50% base damage

Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds. Constitution Based Class for Next!

I'd like the mix of 3e and 4e crits.

max damage is boring and doubling all bonuses with weapon die can be overpowered(keen falchion, rage, power attack, leap attack, rhino hide combos are killing baby jesus.)

so I would put 3e 20/×2 as +1[w] die bonus on the roll of 20, 18-20/×2 +1[w] die on rolls 18 to 20 or 20/×3 +2[w] dices on a roll of 20

I prefer a short menu of three options for Standard and even more options for Advanced play.

First option (and the only option in Basic) would be Moar Damage!!1! Exactly how much more damage would be modular at the Advanced level.

Second option would be a temporary status/condition effect like Stunned for situations where preventing the target from acting is more important than just damaging it.

Third, and one I'd use when monsters Crit my PCs, is a regular damage roll plus 1 lingering wound.

Wounds Module [updated for Basic]

Proficiency Module

I'd vote for current packet plus optional wounds/status effects.
I like making all crits max damage plus an exploding d6. This guarantees it will be better than a normal hit, and there is a small chance that it can become much more.

A Brave Knight of WTF - "Wielder of the Sword of Balance"

 

Rhenny's Blog:  http://community.wizards.com/user/1497701/blog

 

 

I vote for 0%. 

Max damage on a crit is so elegantly simple —and so universally applicable— with such a tried and true emotional payoff that the mechanic doesn't need to be adulterated by the addition of more dice, modifiers, or multipliers.

Keep it simple!

I like making all crits max damage plus an exploding d6. This guarantees it will be better than a normal hit, and there is a small chance that it can become much more.

I could go for this, as long as the exploding d6 is universal and isn't restricted to just weapons or some other finicky thing I have to remember and/or explain in the midst of play.

Max damage with an exploding d6 is acceptably simple. ;)

(I'm so full of compromises!) 

Danny

I like an even double damage. Just double whatever you happen to roll. It's simple and elegant.
I like an even double damage. Just double whatever you happen to roll. It's simple and elegant.

But math

LOL More seriously, doubling damage in D&D Next has the potential to be absolutely devastating — to the point of disruption. It's not a big deal if you roll low, but if you roll close to max, doubling that is BIG damage. (Big like bad big, not big like good big.)

Danny

I like an even double damage. Just double whatever you happen to roll. It's simple and elegant.

But math

LOL More seriously, doubling damage in D&D Next has the potential to be absolutely devastating — to the point of disruption. It's not a big deal if you roll low, but if you roll close to max, doubling that is BIG damage.




Yup that's the point. I want people to get excited over criticals.
Yup that's the point. I want people to get excited over criticals.

I get excited over max damage. LOL

Call me simple.

Danny

How about this?

+1d12 damage + your level

Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds. Constitution Based Class for Next!

Crits should just maximize the damage, IMO. It's simple. It's powerful without being too powerful. It scales with your damage dice. It makes sense (no more crits and then rolling bad on damage). It's perfect.
maximized dice. Because it makes things simple and impressive.

"Ah, the age-old conundrum. Defenders of a game are too blind to see it's broken, and critics are too idiotic to see that it isn't." - Brian McCormick

I want the effect generally as potent as a mages median daily limited spell might create.
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

Zero, and if not zero, very little.

The current critical rule (add one more weapon die) is perfect as it allows you to pick up your d20 and your damage dice, roll, and when you see that you have gotten a 20 add one more damage die thus providing a boost of 1-12 damage more than if you had hit but not rolled a 20 - more than actually needed since critical hits are completely unecessary in the first place.

ATTENTION:  If while reading my post you find yourself thinking "Either this guy is being sarcastic, or he is an idiot," do please assume that I am an idiot. It makes reading your replies more entertaining. If, however, you find yourself hoping that I am not being even remotely serious then you are very likely correct as I find irreverence and being ridiculous to be relaxing.

I want the effect generally as potent as a mages median daily limited spell might create.



Having a crit cause an earthquake sounds fun.
I want the effect generally as potent as a mages median daily limited spell might create.


but with continuing advancement and with interesting effects like a wound or critical hit table too 

Basically I would say 1 more spell level worth of effect every 4 levels.

My assumption is that since retro martial types like the simple fighter incarnation are going to be 99 percent stuck in at-will ville critical hits for them need to be significant.

In fact I think it could very well vary by class or be modified by feats.
 
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

Always been a fan of rolling twice as many dice, but lately we've been using Paizo's crit cards for variety's sake.  I've also ofference double damage dice OR a card to players, and let them pick.
I want the effect generally as potent as a mages median daily limited spell might create.



Having a crit cause an earthquake sounds fun.



Nods I have always found raw damage rather meh anyway.
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

I want the effect generally as potent as a mages median daily limited spell might create.




That would be about..

Firball/LB are 6d6 at wizard level 5 and increases by 1d6 every 2 wizard levels.

So at level 5, the wizard is averaging 21 while a fighter (16 in attack ability) with a longsword is doing 12 (2d8+3) before expertise. 15.5 with.

At level 10, the wizard is doing 5th level fireballs at 28 damage average to the fighter's 17.5/21

Att 20, wiz's level 9s at 42 and level's 7's at 35, to the fighter's 22.5/26.


So +1d12+level

Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds. Constitution Based Class for Next!

Double (+100%) damage.  Roll twice as many dice (no maximize).



This.

My Blog which includes my Hobby Award Winning articles.

Crits should do at least damage-and-a-half, prefrably double damage or more, but no more than quadruple damage.

Crits should never apply to anything that isn't a physical attack.  Fireballs don't crit.  Even scorching rays shouldn't crit.  Claws, teeth, swords, and axes crit.

Roll twice as many dice (incliding any Deadly Strike) would be a good rule.

"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice."

 

Follow me to No Goblins Allowed

A M:tG/D&D message board with a good community and usable software

 


THE COALITION WAR GAME -Phyrexian Chief Praetor
Round 1: (4-1-2, 1 kill)
Round 2: (16-8-2, 4 kills)
Round 3: (18-9-2, 1 kill)
Round 4: (22-10-0, 2 kills)
Round 5: (56-16-3, 9 kills)
Round 6: (8-7-1)

Last Edited by Ralph on blank, 1920

My favorite option so far has been Max Damage +1[W]. I would accept just Max Damage. The current option doesn't scale well due to Deadly Strike. Double and Triple Damage are just way too swingy and can feel weaker (with a bad roll) than it should, or encounter breaking (with a great roll).

My personal design (I would only want to see this as a Module, however):

A 20 on an Attack Roll causes Max Damage and a new Attack roll. If the new Attack roll hits, add 1[W]. If the new Attack is also a 20, add Max 1[W] and roll yet again until a non-20 result occurs. Likely causes Max + 1[W], but could theoretically deal infinite damage.
Crits should do at least maximum damage.  So I'd be fine with either of the following:

Max damage + 1d6
Max damage + weapon damage

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

#BoobsNotBlood

max + 1[W]d

optional wounds table and earthquake (spell effect?) tables. 
Max weapon damage + extra weapon damage die roll (no modifiers to the extra die roll).

I will also be using the Good Hits, Bad Misses tables, as I always have. 
max + 1[W]d

optional wounds table and earthquake (spell effect?) tables. 



earthquake seems a popular one, presumedly bio-electric discharge or boiling blood effects for other fantasy critical hits. 

Hmmm one table for the grit folks ... another for the fantasy extremes. 
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

yep or add use both tables for extreme games. bone shrapnel any oneInnocent?  fire ball sword crit leaves 3rd degree burn wounds.
If the final determination of a monster's "difficulty" is more hit points, as it is now, then something needs to happen at higher levels to help with combat length.

I think that, if higher level monsters have more hit points (which are not purely a function of level and con), then something needs to happen to make it so bigger chunks of those hit points can be taken away.  Otherwise, we'd basically have 4E MM1 monsters again, where they're easy to hit, but combat drags out because you're just chipping away at hit points.

So, either crit damage needs to be increased, perhaps on a scale such that higher levels get more of a bonus, or the crit range needs to expand some in the teens such that people can crit slightly more often.

As for how much exactly?  I don't know.  I like double damage, but that always sucked when you got a crit and then rolled 1s on the dice.  Max damage is good, too, except that it makes crits less special when you can get that amount of damage from a regular damage roll.  Honestly, I think 4E's inherent bonuses had it right: max damage with a bonus based on level.  That bonus should scale nearly as sharply as 4E's did, but it should scale some, maybe even changing die sizes instead of adding dice.  Say, a d4 at 1, with a d12 at 19, and the others spread out in between.
My favorite option so far has been Max Damage +1[W]. I would accept just Max Damage. The current option doesn't scale well due to Deadly Strike. Double and Triple Damage are just way too swingy and can feel weaker (with a bad roll) than it should, or encounter breaking (with a great roll).

My personal design (I would only want to see this as a Module, however):

A 20 on an Attack Roll causes Max Damage and a new Attack roll. If the new Attack roll hits, add 1[W]. If the new Attack is also a 20, add Max 1[W] and roll yet again until a non-20 result occurs. Likely causes Max + 1[W], but could theoretically deal infinite damage.


This is a lot like what my group does. We don't alow a third attack roll after the second natural 20 in a row though. It's just crit=auto hit for max damage and roll for confirm crit. If the crit confirm roll is a hit, roll all of your normal attack damage as well (we include deadly strike, sneak attack, etc. but only if the initial attack benefited from it. basically you roll all the dice you would have rolled on a normal hit.) If its another natural 20, you maximize the extra damage. I kind of like your version better though.
the 4e scaling sounds good to me but after reading the new monsters in the lates playtest i think they will be adding feats and class features to increase crit dmg. doing so creats positives and nagatives. 
+


  • gives classes a different feel.

  • more customization 


-


  • people who dont have or take these options will be under the curve

  • if they hand out to much of the same crit feature will be come samey 

  • power gamer fodder and maybe feat tax my game math. 


so I would prefer both max+1[W]d scaling up by lvl and feats options just dont let the feat/class features get out of hand.  again i want a would and special effects table included optionally. 

deadly strike should be a multi attack like this 

Deadly Strike
Benefit:  Once per round, when you use your action to make a weapon attack or initiate a check or contest, you can make a second attack, check or contest as part of the same action. If you have movement remaining, you can move between each attack, check or contest. 
simple option = +1 extra weapon dice

other option = same damage but add Restrained condition for attackers Level in rounds.
sounds nasty against the pcs, but the DM can choose to attack someone else for awhile whilst the fighter that just got downed has a round or two to stage a comeback

third option = everyone gets advantage against the target for the following round

Key things for D&D - Where is the character from and why do they do what they do? / Recurring NPCs - allies and enemies / Plot, World and Personal Events.

I like the "[max weapon die] + [roll deadly strike] + [level]" option best, but agree we should just have multiple options to choose from, including inflicting status effects instead of extra damage.

Magic Dual Color Test
I am White/Green
I am White/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I am both orderly and instinctive. I value community and group identity, defining myself by the social group I am a part of. At best, I'm selfless and strong-willed; at worst, I'm unoriginal and sheepish.
I want the effect generally as potent as a mages median daily limited spell might create.




That would be about..

Firball/LB are 6d6 at wizard level 5 and increases by 1d6 every 2 wizard levels.

So at level 5, the wizard is averaging 21 while a fighter (16 in attack ability) with a longsword is doing 12 (2d8+3) before expertise. 15.5 with.

At level 10, the wizard is doing 5th level fireballs at 28 damage average to the fighter's 17.5/21

Att 20, wiz's level 9s at 42 and level's 7's at 35, to the fighter's 22.5/26.


So +1d12+level




Well fire ball has a big area, so yes it does 21 damage but would probebly be efecting 3 or more  targets.
So the fireball spell is more powerfull then it's single target damage. 
@edwin_su

If firebals dealls average 28 damage to 3 guys at level 5, how is a fighter getting to 84 damage at that level?

Also the benefit of hitting more people is sorta cancelled by the chance of hitting your own allies. That is why Lightning Bolt is a good spell because it has utilityas single target with less chance of friendly fire.

The fighter's attack is usually about 5+level behind the wizard's highest spell damage to single targets.
So it should be average damage vs average damage.

5% chance of critical should be about worth a caster's highest or 2nd highest daily damage.

Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds. Constitution Based Class for Next!

I prefer a short menu of three options for Standard and even more options for Advanced play. First option (and the only option in Basic) would be Moar Damage!!1! Exactly how much more damage would be modular at the Advanced level. Second option would be a temporary status/condition effect like Stunned for situations where preventing the target from acting is more important than just damaging it. Third, and one I'd use when monsters Crit my PCs, is a regular damage roll plus 1 lingering wound.



Sir, you have my vote.
Sign In to post comments