[[Contest: The Pale World]] - Elanda Rine Part II

43 posts / 0 new
Last post

The Pale World. . . 

A Plane designed by Barinellos. Currently this intriguing world is still under construction, however some things have been set in stone. One of these being Elanda Rine. She was discovered by Aaarrrgh, and he has composed the following summaries to help in the understanding of anything related to her, including her card design.

This contest is the first of several. Barinellos hopes to form a complete large set out of his plane. Here is your chance to be a part of this majestic endeavor. Let us see your genius and you may earn a chance to enter at your own risk.

Welcome to the second round of Elanda's creation. So far we have this:

Elanda Rine 
Planeswalker - Elanda
+1: Draw a card. You get an emblem with "Your maximum hand size is reduced by one."

[2]


Barinellos thinks that we should have a second + ability. So that's your criteria:

Make a second postitive ability for Elanda.


Elanda Rine
 
Race: Human
Color: 

History

Elanda always had a natural talent for magic. As a prodigy, she was sent to a high-class academy at a very young age. Although she had a strong desire for knowledge, she caused a lot of problems. She was always talking back at her teachers, believing she knew better than the more experienced staff (and she often did). She also had very little patience with the other students when they could not grasp the lessons at the same pace she could, and was generally an annoying know-it-all. Her teachers did everything they could to reign her behavior, but what do you do with a child who is better at your trade than you are? The last straw came when it was discovered that she was using mind control magic on her own classmates. When questioned about it, she calmly explained that the homework she had been given was beneath her, and that any weak-minded fool could complete the tasks even without full use of their mind, and she had proved it by having several classmates do it in her stead. In her opinion they should have been proud of her prowess. The headmaster politely disagreed, and told her to pack her things, as she would be leaving in the morning. Furious at this betrayal of her genius, Elanda did what any exceedingly gifted thirteen-year-old mage would do. She would show them exactly how much power they were thowing away by turning her away. She had been studying advanced spells well beyond even the staff's capabilities. The kind of spells you found in the part of the library students, and even some members of the faculty, weren't allowed to use. Of course, she would never sneak into that section and take a book. She had made others do it for her. After some frantic page-turning, she found what she was looking for, a spell that was sure to impress that dessicated headmaster. The spell to stop time.

The next day, she requested an audience with the headmaster in private before she was sent off. She stepped into his office, trying to look as sad and contrite as possible, all the while going over the spell in her mind repeatedly. She had studied it all night, and she was quite certain she knew it well, but she was frustrated and tired, and failing this now would be mortifying. As the principal looked at her questioningly, she raised her hands and started reciting the words of the spell. But something was wrong. She could feel it, but she couldn't figure out what. By this part of the ritual, the rest of the world should have slowed down to the point where only those inside the immediate effect of the spell, the headmaster and herself, could move, but it wasn't happening. She saw another student run by the window outside, and her concentration shattered completely. She could feel the threads of the spell snapping apart, and as she tried to re-weave them, she could tell that they were not connecting correctly. With a scream of fear, she released the spell. She found herself enveloped in a bright light, and when she her eyesight returned, nothing around her looked familiar. She was in a world completely unlike the one she knew.


That was ten years ago, and Elanda grew to enjoy the ability to leave a world behind when it suited her. Except "grew" is not the right word. In fact, Elanda has not grown at all since that day. Instead of stopping time from flowing around her, the botched spell had stopped time from affecting her body. The irony that her attempt at forcing adults to take her seriously had resulted in always being taken for a child was not lost on her. As a matter of fact, she spends every day looking for a way to reverse it. But even though she is still as proud, the years have tempered her with some wisdom. She is reticent to attempt to manipulate time again until she is prepared. But she knows that safely doing that will require much more power than she currently possesses. This has brought her to the Pale World. She has heard rumors of immense mana crystals which could easily fuel the spells, but only if she gets to it before anyone else does. And if that means encouraging the locals to focus more on fighting each other than saving themselves, so be it. After all, who would accuse a little girl of orchestrating a war?


 Appearance and behavior

Elanda is a human female, who looks like she is in her early teens. Her appearance is deceiving, though. She is in fact ten years older than she appears, and that fact has embittered her. Because of the failed time control spell which caused her condition, she has become obsessed with time. She always carries at least two timekeeping devices (one artificial and one magical), and she plans her every move to the minute. To the second, if possible. She does not like surprises, and she is willing to do more or less anything to achieve her plans.


139359831 wrote:
That is a lovely painting of Richard Garfield. It really brings out his feminine side.
+1, discard a card: You gain an emblem with "Your maximum hand size is increased by 2."
"I think me going Bang bang bang I win is pretty intuitive" Mafia Record: Wouldn't you like to know? 2011 Mafia Awards - Mastermind of the Year
mymoment
\
57817638 wrote:
58060728 wrote:
88318561 wrote:
58060728 wrote:
Moriok Rigger does absolutely nothing to boost other riggers. You are incorrect.
Moriok Rigger is not a Rigger in print. Only in Errata WHAT NOW! (yes, I did put that phrase in for that exact reason)
Congratulations, they have activated your trap card!
[+1] Up to two target permanents gain hexproof until the beginning of your next upkeep.
[+1] Discard a card.

Show
Upon the day that dragons were born, so to was the first white wig worn, by men who wished to make the world theirs, and in the process sorcery tears - the very fabric of space and time, dragging the dragons right into their prime, these monstrous beasts in philosophical mansions, stood right in the way of colonial expansions. To break these beasts a hero must be found, a hero of the future who can stand the sound - of centuries past and voices unfettered, and someone who'll carve dragon graves lettered - R, I, and P the three sacred symbols, that curse the dead to a land without gimbals. A land they'll never leave, because escape cannot conceive - itself, out of the grip of this mustachio'd hero, a Roosevelt who is comparable to zero. Family crest tattooed on his chest, the baddest m****rf****r this side of the West. And to the dismay of the colonial fools, their futuristic hero had to play by the rules, and the hero chosen by the dragons themselves, they summoned with a tome pulled from dusty shelves. Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn, or so they said, as their dragon tails were waggin'. And up from the depths, as the earth shook, the Oldest of Ones opened eyes for a look - at the battle that was about to be waged, the human champion that stood enraged - on the precipice between hither and yon, to battle this most eldritch scion. And with that, the tension was broken, the combat began, and each soul had spoken - its very last words, because as soon as time had started, so to had it ended, and sentience departed.
+2: End the turn.
"The body is but a vessel for the soul, a puppet which bends to the soul's tyranny. And lo, the body is not eternal, for it must feed on the flesh of others, lest it return to the dust from whence it came. Therefore must the soul deceive, despise and murder men."The Durai Papers

+N: Untap each permanent you control at the beginning of the next endstep.

I haven't specified a number as I don't know where this is to be costed, but let's say +1. 
I have no idea why you would choose an ability that creates emblems for a [+1] ability. That, and the emblem is far more of a detriment than anything else.

With that in mind, it can allow some synergy with other abilities.

[0]/[+1] Remove an emblem created by ~ from the game: Tap up to two target permanents. Those permanents do not untap during their next untap phase.

Hey Everyone, if you have a few minutes I'd like to point you to two links that you might find interesting. The first is a plane of my own creation that is still in the works. I am always happy for some assistance in working on it.

The second is a link to the oldest continuously running contest in the You Make the Card forum. It is truly a contest like no other. It is faithfully run by a handful of regulars who are always kind and open to any new comers, please drop by and check it out if you're interested in making cards!

+1- Draw a card, then put the top card of your library into your graveyard.
IMAGE(http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/daily/wallpapers/HavengulLich_DKA_Facebook_Wallpaper.jpg)
Still not sure if you can reference emblems or not, but i'll just assume it's ok. Here's a few ideas:

+1: Target player gains control of all emblems.
+1: Gain control of target creature with power less than or equal to the number of emblems you control.
+1: Put a token onto the battlefield thats a copy of target creature you don't control.
+1: Return target instant or sorcery card from your graveyard to your hand.
+1: Target creature gains flying and hexproof until end of turn.

Ok, that should do for now. Ill try to come up with some other ideas.
Ok, I've narrowed it down to these two:

+1: Put a token onto the battlefield thats a copy of target creature you don't control.
+1: Return target instant or sorcery card from your graveyard to your hand.

The first one can protect her, but being a two drop, your opponent might not have anything worth copying yet, so you'll end up using the other ability. Flavor-wise, it shows her mental prowess (I guess). The second one is probably better flavor-wise, but then she doesn't get to protect herself, which could be a problem. It probably synergizes better with the other ability, though. Basically it shows that she can be a little impulsive to get her plans going (the first ability), but she's powerful enough to backtrack (showing her control of time), and reuse a spell she should have saved. Not sure which one I prefer.

Ok, after giving it some thought, i'm going to officially submit:

+1: Return target instant or sorcery card from your graveyard to your hand.
Still not sure if you can reference emblems or not, but i'll just assume it's ok. Here's a few ideas:


Yeah, for the sake of creativity, it's alright.
From a rules perspective, I don't really know. The command zone is a very strange place and the only way to effectively interact with it in card terms is Fractured Powerstone.
I was trying to figure out where exactly to tell you that, but...

For the record, she's not a 2 drop (yet?), she just starts with 2 loyalty. Her mana cost is undetermined as of right now. Going to gauge her power level before putting a number on her.

Anyways, with that info, feel free to change some of what you submitted if you like.
Hey guys, remember that planeswalkers usually can defend themselves, and since the first and third ability won't accomplish that:

"[+1]: Until your next turn, whenever a creature deals combat damage to Elanda Rine, return that creature to its owner's hand."

"[+1]: Until your next turn, you choose how target creature attacks or blocks."
[+1]: Put a 1/1 blue bird token with flying onto the battlefield for each emblem you control. (have?)

Quotes: 

Show
magicpablo666 wrote:
These cards are Ball Tightening.
I_forget_who_dammit wrote:
Perfect originality is overrated and often ugly. The best and most beautiful cards I've ever seen were clearly inspired by something else. Cards are not entirely unlike living organisms in this regard. All the good ones are a result of long evolution; the 'original' ones are either monocellular or mutant aberrations.
ColonialDragons wrote:
The weird part is reaching over the table, grabbing a card from their hand, and just staring slowly back at them, awkwardly, as you slide their voice of resurgence slowly into your pants.
magicpablo666 wrote:
Graveborn are strictly better than Zombies. I mean, look at that wicked beard. You try growing that when your dead. And I know aging fellows who are suffering from Male Pattern Baldness, who would kill for a Mop like Ribsy's over there.
magicpablo666 wrote:
Hey Dudibus, I can't take you seriously until you take your shirt off!
cats_and_me wrote:
I'm just stating what I think is their opinion! :/
I have to say this: Planeswalkers need to synergize with themselves.  This is the problem with Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded: all his abilities are kind of neat, but not one of them has real, solid synergy with any of the others.  Imagine if he had -4 to Recoup, -6 toTwilight's Call.  That would be AWESOME, because then his abilities would be working together to a common goal: put stuff in your 'yard, then use it.

Right now, Elanda's first ability does two things.  It gets you cards, and it reduces the number of cards you can hold onto.  She supports an aggressive strategy that wants to get a lot of gas, and throw it all on the board rather than holding onto a million answers like traditional blue

It is my personal opinion that her second ability should support this, rather than muddling it by removing the emblems or tossing them about... which also messes with the point of emblems as the physical representation of abilities with a duration "For the rest of the game" (see the first printing of Elspeth, Knight-Errant versus later ones)

Since I'm not tapped as a judge here, I shall step into the arena with a few options

[+1]: Detain each creature with power greater than the number of cards in your hand.
[+1]: The next time you cast an instant or sorcery spell this turn, copy it.  You may choose new targets for the copy.
[+1]: Untap target creature and gain control of it until end of turn.  It gains haste until end of turn.
[0]: If you have no cards in hand, gain control of target creature.  Otherwise, tap target creature.
[0]: Return target nonland permanent to its owner's hand
[0] or [+1]: Target player chooses any number of creatures he or she controls.  On that player's next turn, the chosen creatures must attack if able and no other creatures can attack.

What do these have in common?  They're all basically tempo, gas, or anti-stabilization abilities

>> The first +1 ability is basically an Ensnaring Bridge effect, except it prevents a good deal more in exchange for being far less easy to manipulate into being one-sided
>> The second +1 ability is an established 2 mana effect, well within the reach of a planeswalker + ability.  It adds to your gas, though specifically the noncreature portion.
>> The third +1 ability is Ray of Command/Act of Treason.  As a 3 mana effect, it's a little iffy as a + ability, but Elspeth did it and she's layed out in a way that's very similar to Elanda (+, +, assumed ultimate)  It's a little odd in blue nowadays, partially because it is such a tempo move and partially because the flavor has changed from "Bargain bin mind control" to "Berserker Rage".  It makes their strongest blocker your new attacker, which is invaluable for a deck trying to stop an enemy from stabilizing.
>> The first 0 ability also lets Elanda use her mind control... but has the prerequisite of dumping your hand first  This effectivley lets you transition over from using her +1 to using her 0 on power-mode when the emblems start to stack too high.  Or, you know, you could always One With Nothing yourself and cackle.
>> The second 0 ability (lesser Boomerang) is blue's iconic tempo move.  It doesn't really gain you any card advantage, since your opponent still gets his draw (Unlike with Time Ebb) and thus still has access to the same number of cards, but at the same time it forces him or her to waste mana, which can be a more powerful effect if you're applying pressure, or using it in the early game when your opponent has no ability to replay his guy AND do something else.  I'm a little worried that this would be backbreaking if done every turn (Even JTMS had Unsummon as a - ability), but I think Elanda's 2 loyalty would be decently easy to chew through.  It all depends on her cost, though.
>> The third and final 0 ability (it could be a +1, probably) I think is my favorite.  It comes from Oracle en-Vec, minus the kill clause, and can imply either time control or mind control as the case may be.  I think it synergizes with Elanda, despite not being as obvious as the first.  By forcing your opponent to decide on what they'll do on their next turn before you attack, you can act with that information when deciding what to do with your creatures, and by forcing your opponent to adhere to that, you keep them from reacting properly when you change plans: the creatures they want to attack with WILL be tapped on your next turn, prepare accordingly.  I think I like this despite it not being as strongly friendly to Elanda's goals, becuase it's tied pretty deeply to her persona.  She plans out everything ahead of time and runs on a strict time-table.  Now you can too.

"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice."

 

Follow me to No Goblins Allowed

A M:tG/D&D message board with a good community and usable software

 


THE COALITION WAR GAME -Phyrexian Chief Praetor
Round 1: (4-1-2, 1 kill)
Round 2: (16-8-2, 4 kills)
Round 3: (18-9-2, 1 kill)
Round 4: (22-10-0, 2 kills)
Round 5: (56-16-3, 9 kills)
Round 6: (8-7-1)

Last Edited by Ralph on blank, 1920

I'll be closing this in a few earth hours.

139359831 wrote:
That is a lovely painting of Richard Garfield. It really brings out his feminine side.
Barinellos thinks that we should have a second + ability. So that's your criteria:


why
starts with 2 loyalty.


why

Where are the discussions about this happening? Why are these substanial decisions being made this incredibly early? Why is this entire process so inflexible?

Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

IMAGE(http://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/black-white/anim/normal/plusle.gif)

Elanda Rine

Planeswalker - Elanda

[+1] Draw a card. You get an emblem with "Your maximum hand size is reduced by one."
[+1] Skip your next cleanup step. (You don't discard down to your maximum hand size, damage stays marked on permanents and "until end of turn" and "this turn" effects don't end.)
[-7] Take an extra turn after this one for each three cards in your hand.

[2]

Second ability is a variation on this:
[+1] End the turn without discarding down to your maximum hand size. (Other events of the cleanup step occur as normal.)
[+1] Skip your next cleanup step. (You don't discard down to your maximum hand size, damage stays marked on permanents and "until end of turn" and "this turn" effects don't end.)
[+1] You have no limits until end of turn. (If a spell, ability or action would trigger if you have a number or more of an object or counter, instead it doesn't.)
[+1] You have no maximum hand size until end of turn.

But I like the second/first one best. The third one is quite Pablo-esque and sounds pretty so I included it.

Closed.

Mown: Barinellos and I have discussed this via private message - I'll see if I can get him to give you his answers as well. Honestly, I don't agree with everything going on here either, but that's part of working on a team - you don't always get to do things the way you think would be best - I mean, maybe it would be a good idea to let the team member with the most relevant experience give you his or her feedback regarding how to run the contests and design the cards. I mean, why else did you ask that person to help in the first place?

vlord: The Pablobian version would be:

Spoiled Bratling
Creature - Goblin Child
Never clean up.

1/1 

139359831 wrote:
That is a lovely painting of Richard Garfield. It really brings out his feminine side.
Spoiled Bratling
Creature - Goblin Child
Never clean up.

1/1

Beautiful.
Barinellos and I have discussed this via private message - I'll see if I can get him to give you his answers as well. Honestly, I don't agree with everything going on here either, but that's part of working on a team - you don't always get to do things the way you think would be best - I mean, maybe it would be a good idea to let the team member with the most relevant experience give you his or her feedback regarding how to run the contests and design the cards. I mean, why else did you ask that person to help in the first place? 



Re: Loyalty
Because I don't want her to have a huge loyalty cost to start with. It doesn't fit the character and this isn't a situation where I want the mana cost to offset a large loyalty. She isn't Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker league, and a huge mana cost is the only way to justify the kind of loyalty you'd get from a naturally disloyal character.

Re: Second + ability
Largely because the first + ability is really really prohibitive. There's going to be a point in the game that you'll want to do other things with her, but need to keep your hand size intact.
Just look at how well it worked for Tibalt to have that kind of ability.
I'm not looking to have another Tibalt pop up. Her plus ability is good if she's dropped late game and your hand isn't going to get that large again.
If you drop her early game, I want to see an option that won't force you into a Tibalt late game situation just to raise her loyalty.

Re: Contest
If this were for designing a regular card, I'd readily defer to the expertise of the assembled individuals running the contest. But this isn't a regular card, this is a planeswalker, and walkers aren't out of the hands of Creative as much as other cards.

As to why it was done piecemeal, I understand that contests have a short window of interest, but designing the walker wholesale, ESPECIALLY if it isn't going to go through any development stages, probably isn't going to render an accurate enough depiction of the character for my taste.

There are a LOT of moving parts on a walker, so focusing on one part at a time and how it will interact with the other parts already established is how I'm choosing to proceed. At worst, it might end up looking like Ajani, Caller of the Pride with abilities that have no true synergy with the rest, past the idea that "more is good".
Not even getting into the morass of why the cat gives things flying...
Curious to see where this will end up. Lots of interesting options to choose from.

Okay, so, I guess I should explain my stance on this whole thing. Largely, this isn't my set, so I'm not going to enforce any change or anything, but I feel like expressing my viewpoint on it all.

So, planeswalkers are already acknowledges as, by far, the hardest type of card to design. It's difficult to make them stand out as unique, and making it into a cohesive card and not just a jumble of abilities requires a lot of thought. Knowing how the structure of this contest will fare, I foresee that you're just going to take the three abilities that suits you the best, slap them together and call it a day. And I think that by doing so, you're likely missing out on one of what I think should be one of the most important parts of this character. Namely, how does it play? The nature of the contest is too block-based to allow interesting discussion to happen about the character as a whole. And while on this topic, I think the second + ability is important to the discussion.


Re: Second + ability
Largely because the first + ability is really really prohibitive. There's going to be a point in the game that you'll want to do other things with her, but need to keep your hand size intact.
Just look at how well it worked for Tibalt to have that kind of ability.
I'm not looking to have another Tibalt pop up. Her plus ability is good if she's dropped late game and your hand isn't going to get that large again.
If you drop her early game, I want to see an option that won't force you into a Tibalt late game situation just to raise her loyalty.


Tibalt really isn't the problem. The issue with Tibalt is that all of is abilities fails to play into a larger strategy. Liliana has the same "dilemma", yet she is one of the best planeswalkers in Legacy. In addition, it sounds you are basing this entirely on playability, and not on flavor. The character, however, sounds like she carries a very spike mentality, and because of this, losing out on the play decisions around + and - abilities is something I feel that makes her character come less out in gameplay. Right now, I see it as extremely likely that she would end up as a draw engine in an aggressive deck that doesn't concern itself too much with holding too many answers. I don't really see how this fits the character. While it's interesting to have a blue PW that supports aggro, her nature suggests another playstyle. I think you should be aiming for something a lot closer to Jace, AoT.

Re: Loyalty
Because I don't want her to have a huge loyalty cost to start with. It doesn't fit the character and this isn't a situation where I want the mana cost to offset a large loyalty. She isn't Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker league, and a huge mana cost is the only way to justify the kind of loyalty you'd get from a naturally disloyal character.


How is this reflected in Sarkhan the Mad, which starts at an enormous 7? But despite this, he still manages to be represented as a character very well in the card. How does this come out in the relationship between Vraska and Venser, when Venser starts at 2 less, but is what I assume a more dependable character than she who summons assassins. I will assume that this is because Vraska is a much more durable character, and less likely to lose her resolve when confronted with combat. I think by narrowing down relative starting loyalty to how charitable the character is, you're restricting the character too much.

You are designing one of the flagships of the set here, and the lack of discussion surrounding her are concerning.

Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

IMAGE(http://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/black-white/anim/normal/plusle.gif)

I just wanted to pop in to say that I haven't forgotten about you all. I've just been busy. Honest to the Gods.

139359831 wrote:
That is a lovely painting of Richard Garfield. It really brings out his feminine side.
Okay, so, I guess I should explain my stance on this whole thing. Largely, this isn't my set, so I'm not going to enforce any change or anything, but I feel like expressing my viewpoint on it all.


Well, I don't want to seem as if I'm dismissive, so I will do my best to respond. You raise some fair points, though I do feel I need to rebutt some of them.
Knowing how the structure of this contest will fare, I foresee that you're just going to take the three abilities that suits you the best, slap them together and call it a day. And I think that by doing so, you're likely missing out on one of what I think should be one of the most important parts of this character. Namely, how does it play? The nature of the contest is too block-based to allow interesting discussion to happen about the character as a whole. And while on this topic, I think the second + ability is important to the discussion.


Unfortunately, I don't have a lot to say that can assuage these doubts.
I do want to assure you that we're looking at how the larger abilities play with each other.
I also worry because the more I think about it, the more an idea for her ultimate is solidifying in my head, particularly one that plays in terms of her first + ability, and with that in mind, it'll influence the choice we make with her second ability.
Tibalt really isn't the problem. The issue with Tibalt is that all of is abilities fails to play into a larger strategy. Liliana has the same "dilemma", yet she is one of the best planeswalkers in Legacy. In addition, it sounds you are basing this entirely on playability, and not on flavor. The character, however, sounds like she carries a very spike mentality, and because of this, losing out on the play decisions around + and - abilities is something I feel that makes her character come less out in gameplay. Right now, I see it as extremely likely that she would end up as a draw engine in an aggressive deck that doesn't concern itself too much with holding too many answers. I don't really see how this fits the character. While it's interesting to have a blue PW that supports aggro, her nature suggests another playstyle. I think you should be aiming for something a lot closer to Jace, AoT.


I think this is a situation in which we'll have a disagreement based upon our interpretations. While I could see the argument to her being a similar character to Jace, I think her inherent short sightedness and recklessness is the core of her character, rather than anything like a long term carefully plotting character.
Based upon her history, she has very little concern for consequences. Her arrogance clouds her consideration for things like that, and her general attitude is one of playing against expectations and winging it if her long term goals become endangered. She plans in the broadest possible strokes, but otherwise uses a number of very small scale manipulations rather than a grandiose sweeping plot.
In that regard, I do consider her to be a very aggro character with little concern for the immediate future, so I feel like this interpretation suits her.

How is this reflected in Sarkhan the Mad, which starts at an enormous 7? But despite this, he still manages to be represented as a character very well in the card. How does this come out in the relationship between Vraska and Venser, when Venser starts at 2 less, but is what I assume a more dependable character than she who summons assassins. I will assume that this is because Vraska is a much more durable character, and less likely to lose her resolve when confronted with combat. I think by narrowing down relative starting loyalty to how charitable the character is, you're restricting the character too much.

You are designing one of the flagships of the set here, and the lack of discussion surrounding her are concerning.


You do bring up a good point, but it sort of plays against itself.
Venser is less loyal on the outset than Vraska, proposing that her durability will cause her to stick around in the face of abuse because she simply can take it in a way that he can't.
But Elanda is trapped in an adolescent body. She's not a hale character able to withstand a lot of damage and would seem disinclined to follow through at the risk of her own neck.
Look. I made it pretty this time:

Dr_Demento

+1, discard a card: You gain an emblem with "Your maximum hand size is increased by 2."


This is wonderful. This appeals to me 100 percent. The only issue I have is that it sort of makes the ultimate awkward. I mean, with this and the first ability you have to have an ultimate that is thematically similar yes? And the themes are so rigid that the ultimate becomes fairly rigid as well. Definitely a good example for why 'Walker design might not be best suited to the Assembly Line method. Anyway, this is definitely a top contender for me. I will fight for it.



SimonGlume

[+1] Up to two target permanents gain hexproof until the beginning of your next upkeep.


Meh. Not really a synergy with the first one at all. Plus I'm not a hexproof kinda guy. Shroud suckas. Anyway, this is okay, but really nothing special. Elanda doesn't really seem like the kind who might protect stuff either. . .



Arazlam

+2: End the turn.


Ha ha ha. Well, you read why the first one didn't make it in, yes? I mean, this still has some interesting synergy with the first one I guess. . . But I doubt that this will make it to the final product. Part of me wonders if you might be joking? Anyway, I still like this a lot. “End the turn” is a phrase that belongs on far more cards.



Imi

+N: Untap each permanent you control at the beginning of the next endstep.


I haven't specified a number as I don't know where this is to be costed, but let's say +1. 

That's pretty neat. It has a good synergy with her other +1 and is unique in the planeswalker way. My only problem is that it feels so much more versatile and useful than her other +1 that I doubt the first would get much use. . . As far as Elanda, this feels like a – ability to me. I'm also not sure how well it fits with her character. I'll tentatively add it to the serious contender list though.



Fakeartist

[9896369 post=532977369]I have no idea why you would choose an ability that creates emblems for a [+1] ability. That, and the emblem is far more of a detriment than anything else. 

With that in mind, it can allow some synergy with other abilities.

[0]/[+1] Remove an emblem created by ~ from the game: Tap up to two target permanents. Those permanents do not untap during their next untap phase.

Hmmm. I'm not sure how I feel about this weirdness. I guess that my initial reaction is mixed: I like it mechanically; it allows for some interesting, if limited, space – however, I think that flavourfully it makes no sense. Why would she give you an emblem as her price and then for another +1, take it away? If we're going to remove emblems we should be doing it at a -N.



Mindimental

+1- Draw a card, then put the top card of your library into your graveyard.


This is just so similar to the first ability though. It might be cool if it did the opposite though! Draw a card, then put the top card of your graveyard on top of your library. Saving your discards and such. Pretty strong stuff though. . . Anyway, that wasn't what you submitted and what you submitted was fine thematically, but it was just so similar to the first ability that I don't think we can use it.



Ulcaster



+1: Return target instant or sorcery card from your graveyard to your hand.

Some of those other submissions were pretty interesting. This is definitely a reasonable ability, and it makes sense w/r/t her first ability. It is very strong though. Any extra turn shenanigans and you have a lock. I guess I don't really judge on power level, but since this is for a set, having this sort of thing might limit the other design space too much. I mean, it is a good ability, but not a good + ability.



cats_and_me

Hey guys, remember that planeswalkers usually can defend themselves, and since the first and third ability won't accomplish that:


"[+1]: Until your next turn, whenever a creature deals combat damage to Elanda Rine, return that creature to its owner's hand."

"[+1]: Until your next turn, you choose how target creature attacks or blocks."


That is a good point. Somehow I wish you'd been able to tie these in with the first + though. That second one is probably the one I favor here. It's pretty cool and I feel like it is something that Elanda would definitely be able to manipulate. . . Serious contender numero tres.



Dudibus

[+1]: Put a 1/1 blue bird token with flying onto the battlefield for each emblem you control. (have?)


Own, maybe? That's what sounds best to my ear. Well, I think this does what cats was trying to do in a much more synergistic way. The issue that we have here is Elanda and birds? She doesn't really seem like the type of person who would be summoning little birds – I mean, they're already sort of associated with children and she's probably pretty sick of being seen as one – a child I mean. Not sure exactly what kind of 1/1 she would summon though. Still it can go on the list.



Tevish_Szat



[+1]: Detain each creature with power greater than the number of cards in your hand.
[+1]: The next time you cast an instant or sorcery spell this turn, copy it.  You may choose new targets for the copy.
[+1]: Untap target creature and gain control of it until end of turn.  It gains haste until end of turn.
[0]: If you have no cards in hand, gain control of target creature.  Otherwise, tap target creature.
[0]: Return target nonland permanent to its owner's hand
[0] or [+1]: Target player chooses any number of creatures he or she controls.  On that player's next turn, the chosen creatures must attack if able and no other creatures can attack.



Look at you with all your text. Well, the first one uses “Detain” which is probably not good. Again, this isn't Time Spiral – although some elements actually are similar. The second is neat though – she's getting you bang for your buck and all. The third is okay, but I guess I'm kind of looking for things that aren't just copies of already existing cards. . . Planeswalkers should be more than just three cards stapled together in a vulnerable shell maybe. I don't know how Barinellos feels about 0 abilities – I think he wanted only + this round. I'll let you know what I think anyway. The first one is nice. You're right to make it a 0 ability. I'd argue that it is probably a – ability even. I like it. The second is a little more bland, but probably way too strong. Very easy lock with lands early game. It would force her cost to go significantly up. The last ability there is really cute. I think it deserves to be on more cards for sure, but I'm not sure if it will be on Elanda. It is a serious contender I suppose.



vlord



[+1] Skip your next cleanup step. 
erdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">(You don't discard down to your maximum hand size, damage stays marked on permanents and "until end of turn" and "this turn" effects don't end.)

Second ability is a variation on this:
[+1] End the turn without discarding down to your maximum hand size. 
erdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">(Other events of the cleanup step occur as normal.)
[+1] Skip your next cleanup step. erdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">(You don't discard down to your maximum hand size, damage stays marked on permanents and "until end of turn" and "this turn" effects don't end.)
[+1] You have no limits until end of turn. erdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">(If a spell, ability or action would trigger if you have a number or more of an object or counter, instead it doesn't.)
[+1] You have no maximum hand size until end of turn.

But I like the second/first one best. The third one is quite Pablo-esque and sounds pretty so I included it.




That's neat, but I think there are probably problems with it? I'm sure I've posted something like this before, plus there's that one uncard. As for the variations, the first is okay, but I feel like it takes away from the first ability and the third one is just silly. This isn't my set; I'm just assisting. If it were. . . “You are limitless until end of turn.” Of course, how can something limitless be limited by those last four words?



Serious Contenders

+1, discard a card: You gain an emblem with "Your maximum hand size is increased by 2."


[+1]: Target player chooses any number of creatures he or she controls.  On that player's next turn, the chosen creatures must attack if able and no other creatures can attack.


"[+1]: Until your next turn, you choose how target creature attacks or blocks."


[+1]: Put a 1/1 blue bird token with flying onto the battlefield for each emblem you control. (have?)


+N: Untap each permanent you control at the beginning of the next endstep.




Barinellos, I'm not going to PM this because I'm sleepy. PM me your response though, okay.

139359831 wrote:
That is a lovely painting of Richard Garfield. It really brings out his feminine side.
I'll probably respond to them sometime tomorrow night after work, but I am agog with the possibilities at the moment.
Good word agog. Doesn't get used enough.

I think this is a situation in which we'll have a disagreement based upon our interpretations. While I could see the argument to her being a similar character to Jace, I think her inherent short sightedness and recklessness is the core of her character, rather than anything like a long term carefully plotting character.
Based upon her history, she has very little concern for consequences. Her arrogance clouds her consideration for things like that, and her general attitude is one of playing against expectations and winging it if her long term goals become endangered. She plans in the broadest possible strokes, but otherwise uses a number of very small scale manipulations rather than a grandiose sweeping plot.
In that regard, I do consider her to be a very aggro character with little concern for the immediate future, so I feel like this interpretation suits her.


So how is this supposed to be mono blue again?
I guess it might come down to interpretation, and I only have the blurb at the start. However, I'll highlight what part I found to be somewhat contradictory to your statement. (The spike interpretation was about the school "encounters")
She plans her every move to the minute. To the second, if possible. She does not like surprises, and she is willing to do more or less anything to achieve her plans.



Based upon her history, she has very little concern for consequences. Her arrogance clouds her consideration for things like that, and her general attitude is one of playing against expectations and winging it if her long term goals become endangered. She plans in the broadest possible strokes, but otherwise uses a number of very small scale manipulations rather than a grandiose sweeping plot.


While she might not plan for long into the future, she still sounds like someone concerned with being prepared for each situation. I mean, it's your character, so you would know the best. I'm just going with the text I have and how I see it.
The aside about Jace wasn't about him as a character, it's how the card plays. Or, for the most part, the mini fact-or-fiction.


You do bring up a good point, but it sort of plays against itself.
Venser is less loyal on the outset than Vraska, proposing that her durability will cause her to stick around in the face of abuse because she simply can take it in a way that he can't.
But Elanda is trapped in an adolescent body. She's not a hale character able to withstand a lot of damage and would seem disinclined to follow through at the risk of her own neck.


Well, I mostly brought it up just to say that there's more to starting loyalty than the face value. I assumed that Elanda wouldn't be able to withstand too much punishment before getting too bothered with it. If I were to bring up a mechanical argument, it would be that it makes it difficult to put her at anything other than 2 or 3 cmc, and with a + ability like that, 2 is also out of the window. 4 is possible, but precedent says that it should have a higher starting loyalty or a + ability that escalates faster.

Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

IMAGE(http://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/black-white/anim/normal/plusle.gif)


I also worry because the more I think about it, the more an idea for her ultimate is solidifying in my head, particularly one that plays in terms of her first + ability, and with that in mind, it'll influence the choice we make with her second ability.


 
Really curious to know what your idea is.
So how is this supposed to be mono blue again?


Because red has a monopoly on that kind of behaviour and no other color can use it.

Essentially, personality traits aren't constrained exclusively to a color. If you were ambitious, you could still be mono-white, you wouldn't splash black just because.

@Mown, Re:cost
we do have Nissa Revane with a similar mana and loyalty cost, though I think I'd want to aim in the 3 range.
I like the bird one, although emblem referencing is weird (I'm pretty sure the correct term would be "own" by the way...)
"I think me going Bang bang bang I win is pretty intuitive" Mafia Record: Wouldn't you like to know? 2011 Mafia Awards - Mastermind of the Year
mymoment
\
57817638 wrote:
58060728 wrote:
88318561 wrote:
58060728 wrote:
Moriok Rigger does absolutely nothing to boost other riggers. You are incorrect.
Moriok Rigger is not a Rigger in print. Only in Errata WHAT NOW! (yes, I did put that phrase in for that exact reason)
Congratulations, they have activated your trap card!
"Hmmm. I'm not sure how I feel about this weirdness. I guess that my initial reaction is mixed: I like it mechanically; it allows for some interesting, if limited, space – however, I think that flavourfully it makes no sense. Why would she give you an emblem as her price and then for another +1, take it away? If we're going to remove emblems we should be doing it at a -N."

Is she not trying to undo the limitations imposed on her by the magic she had committed? That, and the second +1 ability can (or should) only be used if you already have said limitation in place. Otherwise it does nothing.

Hey Everyone, if you have a few minutes I'd like to point you to two links that you might find interesting. The first is a plane of my own creation that is still in the works. I am always happy for some assistance in working on it.

The second is a link to the oldest continuously running contest in the You Make the Card forum. It is truly a contest like no other. It is faithfully run by a handful of regulars who are always kind and open to any new comers, please drop by and check it out if you're interested in making cards!

My two cents, I think you're trying to design the walker to suit a type of game that just doesn't match her backstory/personality, to me she sounds . Cool character btw
I can see her as maybe in terms of her personality, but mono blue works as well. She might have a hint of red in her, but I think it only shows itself rarely.
Keep in mind that you're talking to someone who loaths the random whitening of Sorin Markov in Innistrad... I don't think these arguments for red/blue are likely to sway Barinellos much.
Coming Soon to the Magic: Expanded Multiverse: FRAGMENTS: A Shards of Alara Anthology
(Click through to view the cover and announcement page)Want to get your work in the Expanded Multiverse? Come join the project! Oh, and check out my blog, Storming the Ivory Tower: making sense of academia, media, and culture twice weekly.
Essentially, we're running face first into the difference between multicolor and "a rounded character"

Colors are big, monolithic abstracts.  Once you start to develop a character, chances are they show traits that are familiar to other colors, often 3 or more colors.

Elanda "plans her actions to the minute; the second if possible" indicating a large desire for routines, preperation, and order (white).  She is absolutley amoral and willing to abuse others for her own personal gain (black), while she lacks, or at least lacked, patience and has little respect for rules that others try to impose upon her (red).  In short, Elanda expresses every color except green.

But her primary atributes are Intellect, Mentalism, and Time: All blue.   Could you make an argument for her being Blue/X (where X is not green), or even some tricolor including blue?  Yes, yes you could (though I think Black has a stronger claim as her secondary color than red).  But if you did that, you would never have a monocolored character, ever.  Emotion-driven Elspeth would contain red, naturally, and possibly even black to her everlasting shame as she cares about her own purity rather than doing what's right for her adopted people.  Liliana's arc is about being free from bondage (self-caused and to demons, mind), so she picks up red rather easily as well, yet no-one questions her remaining mono-black.

Essentially, to determine the color(s) a character should be printed in, I would look at the 1-2 most core traits of their personality/goals and the one or two most important traits of their magic or other capabilities.  This will return at most 1 color per trait you look at, and you should probably cap it at 3.  for Elanda, I can easily look at 3 factors and get a single color: blue.

I fully expect to see this debate again if and when we move onto the next Pale World Planeswalker.

"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice."

 

Follow me to No Goblins Allowed

A M:tG/D&D message board with a good community and usable software

 


THE COALITION WAR GAME -Phyrexian Chief Praetor
Round 1: (4-1-2, 1 kill)
Round 2: (16-8-2, 4 kills)
Round 3: (18-9-2, 1 kill)
Round 4: (22-10-0, 2 kills)
Round 5: (56-16-3, 9 kills)
Round 6: (8-7-1)

Last Edited by Ralph on blank, 1920

I think my problem is I don't realy like her first ability as a mono blue walker, its reckless and shortsighted. If she would have an ability that complimented the first one like "destroy an emblem, you get an extra turn after this one" for example, that would make her more well-rounded in my eyes. Although I don't know if I would like a destroy emblem ability in magic.

I fully expect to see this debate again if and when we move onto the next Pale World Planeswalker.


It is the one debate you will never escape, not even if Rosewater writes a column on it.

My story

Show
196639635 wrote:
Found it. From the moment TP died:
98201429 wrote:
TPmanW said as he fell to the ground dead, but not really he just has other stuff to do today. In the end, not even his karate could save him. But he died with a smile, knowing that his flavour text submission was totally going to win, because everyone has sympathy for dead people.
And the quotes he was going to use...
198015657 wrote:
196639635 wrote:
I can someone on a journey to the underworld and they won't know it until they arrive. On a side note, who needs a TPmanW zombie? Not really...
196398709 wrote:
You fools! I have killed your beloved TPmanW. Who stands to challenge me so?
Okay. How do I put things in my sig guys? Also yah thanks Dragons.
Explaining GMBanKevin
Show
198015657 wrote:
69511863 wrote:
I've also stumbled in in YMtC just now. Why are people still responding to GMwhat'shisnameBankaiKevin? He's completely of his rocker, unfriendly, arrogant and all-around terrible to a community. I understand that sometimes he has interesting ideas, but the sheer wrongness of all the rest doesn't seem to make up for that. He's the equivalent of a drunk guy at a party who's sometimes funny, but the rest of the time proclaims that if he had been in charge of the Nazis, the world would be a better, Jew-free place. You wouldn't put up with someone like that in real life, why would you on the internet? Wouldn't this be the perfect opportunity for "if we ignore it, it'll go away?"
People respond to Kevin/GM/Bankai for a number of reasons. Really, Kevin presernts the perfect s#!t strom of have-to-respond-to-this-guy's-posts. 1. He pairs originality (at least often enough) with warped design philosophy and and disregard for power balance. People's first reaction to GM is that if they just gave him a few pointers he could design some pretty good cards. Naturaully, he reacts negatively, leading to point 2. 2. He's a jerk and people come to hate him. This makes them post to take cheap jabs at Bankai. Since people pick on him we get point 3. 3. People feel sorry for him. Somebody usually sticks up for GM which keeps the conversation going and the post count climbing. I'm convinced that every YMTC'er goes through a phase where they try to help Kevin out and often make some sort of overture. Naturally, he reacts negatively, and that sends people right back to step 2. Everyone else is mystified, leading to step 4. 4. He's intriguing. His postings really have to be read to be beleived. The thought process behind Kevin's posts is so bwewildering that you can't help but be intrigued. Is he a troll? He acts in a remarkably trollish way, and seems to get little except annoyance for his efforts, but given the amount of effort he goes to, he couldn't really be doing it just to troll could he? Once you accept that Kevin is not a troll, you realize that something is wrong with him and start feel feel sympathetic. Return to step 3.
I fully expect to see this debate again if and when we move onto the next Pale World Planeswalker.


Yeah, I imagine it will be doubly so rough for you since it's... y'know, your creation and you'll have to deal with Death of the Author as others interpret her.

I think my problem is I don't realy like her first ability as a mono blue walker, its reckless and shortsighted. If she would have an ability that complimented the first one like "destroy an emblem, you get an extra turn after this one" for example, that would make her more well-rounded in my eyes. Although I don't know if I would like a destroy emblem ability in magic.


Truthfully, there's a change I would really like to make to one of the abilities that would make the emblems more synergistic and increase the yield for that particular penalty, but I haven't reviewed all the entries this week, and even then, I don't know how taboo it might be to suggest a change to a contest entry.

Truthfully, there's a change I would really like to make to one of the abilities that would make the emblems more synergistic and increase the yield for that particular penalty, but I haven't reviewed all the entries this week, and even then, I don't know how taboo it might be to suggest a change to a contest entry.



In this case, I think we prefer to have to best possible version of Ms. Rine, so it's fine by me.
I feel like this is a little different than a contest just for prestige. This is a contest for a larger design, so having minor changes to your design while still winning seems reasonable.

The latest YMTC Official Contest entries underwent that process, for example.

Although considering the end results maybe I shouldn't use that as an example... >_> 
Coming Soon to the Magic: Expanded Multiverse: FRAGMENTS: A Shards of Alara Anthology
(Click through to view the cover and announcement page)Want to get your work in the Expanded Multiverse? Come join the project! Oh, and check out my blog, Storming the Ivory Tower: making sense of academia, media, and culture twice weekly.


Need to remind Barinellos to make the call on this.

"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice."

 

Follow me to No Goblins Allowed

A M:tG/D&D message board with a good community and usable software

 


THE COALITION WAR GAME -Phyrexian Chief Praetor
Round 1: (4-1-2, 1 kill)
Round 2: (16-8-2, 4 kills)
Round 3: (18-9-2, 1 kill)
Round 4: (22-10-0, 2 kills)
Round 5: (56-16-3, 9 kills)
Round 6: (8-7-1)

Last Edited by Ralph on blank, 1920

Sign In to post comments