Healing / HP Recovery?

9 posts / 0 new
Last post
I am going to be playtesting this weekend, but I'm wondering: is there enough HP recovery in this edition? The way I understand it, you've got your Hit Dice and your healing spells, which are both very limited.

So Clerics at first level can, at most, heal twice per day (plus Channel Divinity). Add 1 Hit Die per character and you've got very little to work with in terms of recovering HP. Plus the fact that you only get half you HD back per day, makes it even less.

So is 1 HD, plus maybe 3 daily healing spells, enough for a first-level party? Do you guys run into problems, or does it iron out as levels increase?
Well, first of all, a first level character is supposed to be fragile. You shouldn't rush into anything stupidly because you have such limited HP and healing capability. But also keep in mind that healing, though limited is generous. Cure Wounds at level 1 restores 2d8+2, which is likely to restore a 1st level character to full health. Most low level monsters do not do a lot of damage, and if your party is smart and gets a character with a high armor class to take a lot of the blows, the party will not sustain too much damage. I haven't ever seen low level characters as being too fragile in this game. Beyond keeping your hit points up, it is very hard to actually die even if you lose consciousness, since the cantrip Spare the Dying automatically restores you to 1 HP, and even a normal healer's kit can do the exact same thing. I think healing is too generous, not too limited.
Well, first of all, a first level character is supposed to be fragile.

I don't know why that's supposed to be true.


If anything, i think higher level characters should be more likely to die.  Since your fighting even more deadly things, like demi-gods.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Well, first of all, a first level character is supposed to be fragile.

I don't know why that's supposed to be true.

Because if first level character's weren't fragile, then there would be no sense of advancement. You have to start off at a low skill level in order to get better over time.

If anything, i think higher level characters should be more likely to die.  Since your fighting even more deadly things, like demi-gods.

Yeah, but by that time, you're halfway to being a demigod yourself.
I don't know why that's supposed to be true.

From a game design standpoint, you haven't invested a lot of time or energy into your level 1 character, so a death is unfortunate but you'll get over it; you don't have a ton of memories attached to that character, anyway. A high level character is one in which you've invested countless hours, and the final death of such a character can be quite jarring indeed.

The metagame is not the game.
Because if first level character's weren't fragile, then there would be no sense of advancement. You have to start off at a low skill level in order to get better over time.

Sure you could.  That goblin that gave you touble is nothing now, and the dragon that you had no chance against is achiveable.

I don't know why that's supposed to be true.

From a game design standpoint, you haven't invested a lot of time or energy into your level 1 character, so a death is unfortunate but you'll get over it; you don't have a ton of memories attached to that character, anyway. A high level character is one in which you've invested countless hours, and the final death of such a character can be quite jarring indeed.

That makes sense.  Though it still seems backwards, but i can see the reasoning.

IMO...

Plenty of strong and smart men can become guards or hedge wizards.  Sure, mabey 1 out of 10 may die getting there, but it's not a paticularly risky achivement to clear a kobold cave.

Lutenents and wizards are even more rare.  Oger's and trolls are more dangerous then kobolds.  They kill 1 in 5.

Dragons and beholders, are really nasty beasts.  Even those who think themselves well prepaired still find themselves burnt and eaten 1 in 3 times.

And demi-gods are frickin demi-gods.  Even the strongest party would only be on even footing with them, with the battle going either way.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I'm personally not a fan of the fragile 1st lever character theory. I prefer exceptional soon-to-be heroes right from level 1. But that is personal taste speaking. I'd rather characters have double the hit points, and run from fight to fight. 
I'm personally not a fan of the fragile 1st lever character theory. I prefer exceptional soon-to-be heroes right from level 1. But that is personal taste speaking. I'd rather characters have double the hit points, and run from fight to fight. 

The problem with that is that not everybody wants to start that way. Some people like to start out fragile, and with your version, nobody would ever be able to do so. It's much easier to make 1st level characters fragile and "new" to adventuring, and then say that if you want to start as an already-established adventurer, start play at level 3.

That's actually the tack that's going to be taken in Next: levels 1 and 2 are going to be "Apprentice Levels", where you're just starting out, then people who want to start out their game as full-fledged heroes already will just start at level 3, the first of the "Heroic Levels".
Yeah, I saw that post as well. I have some concerns about the implementation. Starting at level 3 is NOT the same thing as a game where starting characters are built to not fall over in a stiff breeze. I recognize that this is a personal taste issue, and the two views are hard to reconcile. I just really dislike the pacing and feel of the "fragile lvl 1" style. The overall feel of 5E so far is shaping up to feel very not-epic in it's playstyle, and that tone is set right from the beginning.