Need help with character conversions from 3.5

34 posts / 0 new
Last post
A friend of mine wants a couple of Bad Ass NPCs for a campaign he runs. I, however, don't play 4E and don't know how to convert the characters.  There are two of these; one is meant to be the greatest weaponsmith and armorsmith in the known universe (think Arachne, only victorious), while the other is meant to be an uberswordsman,

DBW says that conversions can be done with any character, so I also have two PCs that I would use if I ever do get involved in a 4E game.  Neither one is a game-breaker, but they're still fun.

NPCs:
The craftsman: Hattori Hanzo (the Kill Bill version)
Race: Dwarf
Alignment: Any non-evil (this version uses LN)
Stats, after racial adjustments (32-point-buy): 10/10/14/16/12/14  Pump Int at every level

Skill notes:  Spellcraft and Knowledge (Arcana) need to be through the roof, while Craft skills (Armorsmithing and Weaponsmithing especially, though SOME Alchemy wouldn't hurt) and Use Magic Device are your actual bread and butter.  Keep Spellcraft, Knowledge (Arcana), and UMD maxed.  Make sure your smithing skills are maxed at level 5, you can ease off a bit after that.  Sadly, this is a skill-intensive build with only one level that gives more than (2+Int).

Magic Equipment: You'll make your own weapon and armor, but you need Tomes for Int and Cha and a Belt of Magnificence because EVERY ability is used in this build (though Dex and Str are used in combat only)

Build Stub: Artificer1/Incarnate1/Dwarf Paragon3/Ironsoul Forgemaster10/Battlesmith5/Major Bloodline (Silver Dragon)

1 -Artificer (Artificer Knowledge, Artisan Bonus, Disable Trap, Item Creation) (Apprentice (Spellcaster), Scribe Scroll) [Sense Motive +2]
Show
As near as I can tell, an artificer would get Knowledge (Arcana) as well as UMD from the Apprentice feat, mostly because artificers are listed as Arcanists in the Guilds section of DMG2.  This will be exceptionally useful later.  You'll want to pour your 30 skill points this level into Craft (armor and weapon), UMD, Knowledge (Arcana), Spellcraft, and anything else you might want.  Personally I would choose Appraise and Craft (Alchemy).


2 - Incarnate (Aura, Detect Opposition) [Alertness]

3a - Silver Dragon Bloodline  
Show
This "level" has no class skills, no skill points, no BAB, nothing... except that it increases all level-based effects (like Aura, Item Creation, and Artificer Knowledge) and max skill ranks.  And that's just on the stuff that's already shown up.

3b - Dwarf Paragon 1 (Craft Expertise, Improved stonecunning) (Weapon Focus (Warhammer)) [Str +1]
Show
Now that we finally have a +1 BAB, we can pick up WF.  Which we're only getting because it's a prereq.  


4 - DP2 (Improved Darkvision (+30'), save bonus) [Cold resistance 5 (Ex)]

5 - DP3 (Con +2) [Silver dragon affinity +2]

6a - Silver Dragon Bloodline
Show
Same deal as last time, except now there's an extra class level based ability, Craft Expertise.

6b - Ironsoul Forgemaster 1 (Shield Bond) (Endurance) [Natural Armor +1] 
Show
Sadly, Endurance is a prereq.  


7 - IF2 (Secrets of the Forge) [Perform +2]

8 - IF3 (Forge Lore) (Craft Magic Arms & Armor) [Resist Cold 10 (Ex)]
Show
This is the beginning of double bonuses.  Forge Lore grants a class level based insight bonus to Craft (armor and weaponsmith) while the DP's Craft Expertise grants a racial bonus to crafting with stone and metal.  Adding in the Silver Dragon bloodline levels - twice, because the abilities are from different classes - makes your crafting become a whole lot easier...


9 - IF4 (Chakra Bond (Arms)) (Exceptional Artisan) [Con +1]
Show
What's the only resource that a crafter can't get back?  This level's feat cuts the time required for crafting by a significant margin.


10 - IF5 (Armor Bond) [Alter Self 1/day (Sp)]
Show
So far, you should be wileding a 1h weapon (preferably a warhammer) along with a shield.  Now that you have the Shield and Armor bonds, you can get energy resistance AND DR.


11 - IF6 (Chakra Bind (Waist)) [Silver Dragon Affinity +4]

12a - Silver Dragon Bloodline
12b - IF7 (Bonus Essentia) [Natural Armor +1]
Show
The only dead level of the build, but it's got Spellcraft as a class skill so we keep going with it...


13 - IF8 (Chakra Bind (Shoulders)) [Bluff +2]

14 - IF9 (Weapon Bond) [Power Attack]

15 - IF10 (Chakra Bind (Heart)) (Extraordinary Artisan) [Cha +1]

16 - Battlesmith 1 (One with the Hammer, Secrets of the Forge) [Breath Weapon (Ex)]
Show
Now you're adding Wis to damage, plus it's another crafting class.  Spellcraft isn't a class skill, so you'll have to spend 2 points on that while keeping Knowledge (arcana) and UMD maxed.  You'll only need 1 point for each of those, thanks to the Apprentice feat.


17 - Bs2 (Flesh of My Flesh +1) [Silver Dragon Affinity +6]

18 - Bs3 (Forged in Fire) (Efficient Item Creation [Epic]) [Natural Armor +1]
Show
Yup, that's an Epic feat at level 18, and it cuts the time required for crafting by 90%.  Thanks to those 3 bloodline levels, your max ranks allowed in class skills at this level is 24, and the prereqs for this feat are Knowledge (Arcana) and Spellcraft at 24 ranks along with a craft feat.


19 - Bs4 (Flesh of My Flesh +2) [Jump +2]

20 - Bs5 (Tempered in Blood) [Immunity to Cold (Ex)]


The swordsman: The Reveternal Blade
Race: Half-Elf

Abilities: 15/12/13/14/10/8 (+1 Str at all levels)
Build Stub: Ranger 2/Barbarian 1/Warblade 6/Revenant Blade 5/Eternal Blade 6


1) Ranger 1 (Bladebearer of the Valenar) (Favored Enemy, Track)

Show
The first three feats are prereqs for the PrC, so no mystery why I’m taking them.

2) Ranger 2 (TWF*, Endurance*)
3) Lion Spirit Totem Barbarian 1 (Weapon Focus [Valenar Double Scimitar]) (Pounce)
Show
I realize that the Lion Totem is an integral part of the ubercharger, but that’s not why I picked it up. I’m trying to get as many attacks/round as I can.

4) Warblade 1 Battle Clarity (Reflex Saves), Weapon Aptitude) (Moment of Perfect Mind, Steely Strike, Wolf Fang Strike) (Blood in the Water)
5) Warblade 2 (Uncanny Dodge) (Emerald Razor)
6) Revenant Blade 1 (Power Attack) (Ancestral Guidance 1, Hero of the Valaes Tairn, Ranger class features)
7) Revenant Blade 2 (Shadow of the Past)
8) Revenant Blade 3 (Ancestral Guidance 2)
9) Revenant Blade 4 (Improved Bull Rush) (Giant Slayer)
10) Revenant Blade 5 (Ancestral Guidance 3, Legendary Force)
11) Eternal Blade 1 (Blade Guide, Eternal Training 1/day) (Ruby Nightmare Blade)
12) Eternal Blade 2 (Leap Attack) (Guided Strike)
13) Eternal Blade 3 (Armored Uncanny Dodge, Eternal Training 2/day) (Iron Heart Surge)
14) Warbalde 3 (Battle Ardor) (Dancing Mongoose) Twisted Charge
15) Warblade 4 (Shock Trooper) (Emerald Razor -> Wall of Blades) (Hearing the Air)
16)Eternal Blade 4 (Eternal Knowledge [Dungeoneering, History])
17) Warblade 5 (Improved Initiative*) (Hamstring Attack)
18) Eternal Blade 5 (Power Critical) (Eternal Training 3/day) (Finishing Move) (Thicket of Blades)
Show
I used Eternal Training shenanigans to Thicket. If that‘s not ok, please let me know so I can fix it.

19) Eternal Blade 6 (Defensive Insight, Eternal Knowledge [Arcana])
20) Warblade 6 (Improved Uncanny Dodge) (Wolf Fang Strike -> Raging Mongoose)


PCs:

Kris, the healing tank
Race: Azurin  (Humanoid (Human, Incarnum))
Abilities: 13/14/14/12/10/13  (if I were using my usual 32-point buy, I'd put 1 into Str & 3 in Cha)  (+1 to Cha at 8th level, +1 Dex every other level)
Alignment: LN (I'll explain this in a bit)

Build Stub:  Fighter 2/Incarnate 4/Crusader 14
Level 1 - Fighter 1  (Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Kusari-gama), Two- Weapon Fighting*, Combat Reflexes*)
Level 2 - Incarnate 1  (Meldshaping, Aligned Soulmelds, Aura, Detect Opposition)  
Show
At this level you get 2 soulmelds, 2 points of Essentia (one is from your race), and no Chakra binds.  You can shape any soulmeld off the Incarnate list, and they last all day.  My personal preferences at this point would be Bluesteel Bracers (Initiative Bonus) and Impulse Boots (Uncanny Dodge, plus an enhancement bonus to Ref saves based on invested Essentia).  An interesting option is Mage's spectacles, which lets you make untrained UMD checks (among others) with a +4 bonus.

Level 3 - Incarnate 2  (Double Hit) (Chakra Bind (Crown))  
Show
Another point of Essentia, another soulmeld... and the ability to bind to the crown Chakra.  At this point is when I start utilizing the Diadem of Purelight.  Bind it to your Crown Chakra, and anything short of total concealment is useless against you.  Another good option is the Crystal Helm, which gives a bonus to Will saves against enchantment & compulsion, and when bound, turns your melee attacks into force attacks.  After all, if you can't hit it, you can't hurt it.  

Level 4 - Incarnate 3 (Expanded Soulmeld capacity +1, incarnum radiance 1/day)  
Show
This level is why I chose LN for the alignment.  Remember when I said you can't hurt what you can't hit?  Once per day, for most (if not all) of a fight, you get a +1 untyped bonus to melee attacks.  Also, if you decide to invest Essentia (which you can now do with an extra point in all your soulmelds) into the Incarnate Avatar soulmeld, you get an insight bonus to melee attacks based on the invested Essentia.

Level 5 - Crusader 1 (Furious Counterstrike, Steely resolve 5) (Crusader's Strike, Mountain Hammer, Douse the Flames, Battle Leader's Charge, Tactical Strike) (Martial Spirit)  
Show
I chose to delay Crusader until level 5 just because I couldn't find enough good Level 1 Maneuvers - and I really like a couple of the Level 2 White Raven maneuvers.  If you want to hit Crusader sooner, go right ahead; it doesn't slow anything down - in fact, it speeds up your ability to heal.  And be sure to be using the Therapeutic Cloak pretty much permanently from now on; just remember that it won't do anything for you without invested Essentia.

Level 6 - Incarnate 4 (Bonus Essentia) (Chakra binds (Feet, Hands))
Show
You're now up to 7 points of Essentia, 4 soulmelds shaped, and 3 options for where to bind the one soulmeld you can. Leanr to work within these limits, because you're not getting any more.  I still like the Diadem of Purelight, but the Impulse Boots are an interesting option - when bound, they grant evasion.

Level 7 - Fighter 2 (Weapon Finesse*)
Level 8 - Crusader 2 (Indomitable Soul) (Thicket of Blades)  
Show
If they move, hit 'em; it's that simple.  And, with Stand Still, if you hit 'em, they won't move.  There's a reason Thicket is used in all Lockdown builds, and that's essentially what Kris, and Tess before her, are.  As RT said about Tess, "The crusader's stance progression would make the baby Jesus cry."  We waited this long for Crusader 2 to avoid making Jesus cry.  Also, note that you're now adding your Cha mod to Will saves; there's a reason I chose to have Cha higher than Wis...  
A side note
I found that doing this actually smooths out the stance progression for the rest of the Crusader levels.  It's like the Crusader was actually DESIGNED to be a 14-level class.  

Level 9 - Crusader 3 (Precise Swing) (Zealous Surge) (Defensive Rebuke)  
Show
Let's see... You hit them, and now you get an AoO if they try to hit your battle buddy instead of you.  And now, if you have the Diadem of Purelight bound, you're ignoring anything short of total concealment AND total cover.  We would have taken this at level 7, instead of Weapon Finesse, but for some reason it's not a fighter bonus feat.

Level 10 - Crusader 4 (Steely Resolve 10) (Crusader's Strike -> Revitalizing Strike)
Level 11 - Crusader 5 (Bonecrusher)
Show
Yeah, the maneuver's got a Fort save that your target will probably save against.  But it still deals an extra 4d6 damage, whether they succeed or not.

Level 12 - Crusader 6 (Extra Granted Maneuver) (Smite 1/day) (Douse the Flames -> Covering Strike)  
Show
Really, this feat is open, but who doesn't like having extra options at the start of combat?  The only other feat I could think of to use here was Lightning Reflexes; your Reflex save does suck.  And smite?  That's one part of why you're using Charisma instead of Wisdom.  It's also strictly better than a pally's smite, because you can never waste it.

Level 13 - Crusader 7 (Bonesplitting Strike)
Level 14 - Crusader 8 (Steely Resolve 15) (Press the Advantage or Aura of Order) (Revitalizing Strike -> Rallying Strike)  
Show
Tess uses Tactics of the Wolf for this level's stance.  Since Kris gets higher level stances, why not take advantage of it?  I like PtA, since it gives you two 5' steps for the price of one, but Aura of Order is nice if you don't like missing your opponent.

Level 15 - Crusader 9 (Robillar's Gambit) (Crushing Vise)  
Show
Another way to lock down your opponents.  If they're not in the air, they're not moving.  Period.

Level 16 - Crusader 10  (Die Hard*) (Mountain Hammer -> Ancient Mountain Hammer)  
Show
The single reason why Mountain hammer was chosen over Foehammer; it upgrades.

Level 17 - Crusader 11 (Castigating Strike)  
Show
This maneuver is the other reason why Kris likes Charisma more than Wisdom.  If the opponent you hit with this is not also LN, every oppontent within 30 ft (and that should be quite a few by now) takes a -2 penalty on all attacks for 10 rounds if they fail this Cha-based save.

Level 18 - Crusader 12 (Defensive Sweep) (Steely Resolve 20) (Battle Leader's Charge -> War Leader's Charge)  
Show
In the words of Hannibal from the A-Team, "I love it when a plan comes together."  It takes a while (damn near forever, as a matter of fact), but when Kris peaks, it's a thing of beauty.  Those levels in Incarnate slowed down Robillar's and Defensive Sweep, but now you've got everything a Lockdown tank needs.  If they move, hit 'em, and make it so they don't move.  If they don't move, and you're next to them... hit 'em again.  And Tactical Strike and Press the Advantage each give you extra 5' steps, so chances are good that you're slowly roaming the battlefield, getting in some extra hits.  If you're using your Therapeutic cloak correctly, you're healing an extra 2-12 points of damage every time you heal.  If you're in the Martial Spirit stance, you're healing every time you connect.

Level 19 - Crusader 13 (Mettle) (Clarion Call)  
Show
Now you get to allow your battle buddies to act on your turn.  Granted, it's not White Raven Tactics, but it's still dmaned effective.  Oh, and if you want to see your DM cry, bind the Impulse Boots to your feet for eavsion to go with Mettle.  Congratulations!  You're now taking no damage on a successful save - ever.

Level 20 - Crusader 14 (Immortal Fortitude)  (Tactical Strike -> Strike of Righteous Vitality)  
Show
You're now damn hard to kill from HP damage.  And you were damn hard to kill from saves starting at last level.  You now really are a tank!  And you can Heal your party members.

Reach Tiger
Race: Shifter (Wildhunt)
Str: 15 (All level-based ability boosts)
Dex:  14 
Con: 14
Int: 12
Wis: 14
Cha: 8

Classes: Ranger2/Fighter2/Warshaper3/Weretouched Master5/Fighter+8
Since I can enter Warshaper at level 5, I figured I might as well...

1) (Shifter) Ranger 1: Combat Reflexes, TrackB (Favored enemy: Evil Outsider)
2) Ranger 2: TWFB
3) Fighter 1: Combat Expertise, Imp. TripB
4) Fighter 2: Imp. Initiative
5) Warshaper 1: (Morphic Immunities)
6) Warshaper 2: Reactive Shifting (Morphic Weapons, Morphic Body)
7) Warshaper 3: (Morphic Reach)
8) Weretouched Master (Tiger) 1
9) WtM 2: Wildhunt Elite, Extra Shifter Trait (Longstride)B
10) WtM 3: (Pounce!)
11) WtM 4: Shifter DefenseB
12) WtM 5: Stand Still
13) Fighter 3
14) Fighter 4: Martial Study (Foehammer)B
15) Fighter 5: Precise Swing
16) Fighter 6: Martial Stance (Thicket of Blades)B
17) Fighter 7
18) Fighter 8: Mage Slayer, Hold the LineB
19) Fighter 9
20) Fighter 10: Robillar's GambitB
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
It are NPC's, there are no rules. Snap your fingers, and make it so.
It are NPC's, there are no rules. Snap your fingers, and make it so.



+1. Basically, pick a level, give appropriate defenses, attack and damage rolls based on similar monsters, and hand out some powers.

One of the great things about 4e is that instead of going, "Hey, did that guy cast Mage Armor+Buff X+Super Buff X+Buff that only works on Tuesday, so what's his AC?", the assumption is that he's buffed exactly as much as he needs to be.

No stupid calculations about whether or not a given spell was cast in advance. Either it was or it isn't something you cast in advance. 
So... What about the ones I want to play?
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
I think what they are basicly saying is that NPCs are build a little different in 4th edition in comparison to 3.5. it would be best to take out something like the Monster Manual 3 (4th edition obviously) and look up monster that feel like the NPCs and just use those as your baseline and then perhaps tweak it a little.

I'm afraid I have no experience with DMing in 3.5 so know to little of the 3.5 monsters to help converting.
In 4e, the "healing tank" build is probably best modeled as a Paladin.  Paladins don't have to be LG; their alignment is the same as their deity, whatever that is.  Azurin don't exist in 4e (nor does incarnum), so pick a race that gets a bonus to Cha.  Deva, perhaps?

The "reaching tiger" build is more straightforward.  Longtooth Shifter Wildblood Warden with the Werewolf theme, refluffed as a tiger.  Wardens get a bunch of powers that extend their reach.

Important thing about 4e: refluffing is not only allowed, it is encouraged.  If you don't like the flavor of something, feel free to change it; mechanics stay the same, either way.

As for your NPCs, there is a system in the DMG for adding class templates to monsters, and you can change races by refluffing and switching racial powers.  Adding a class template makes the monster into an Elite, but since these are significant NPCs, you'd want to do that anyway.
Both of you have mentioned "monsters" in reference to the NPCs, but they're nothing more than a dwarf and an elf. Would you mind explaining what you mean by choosing the term monster?
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Both of you have mentioned "monsters" in reference to the NPCs, but they're nothing more than a dwarf and an elf. Would you mind explaining what you mean by choosing the term monster?


Significant NPCs use the monster creation rules, rather than the PC creation rules.  The monster rules are simpler and more flexible.  In this context, "monster" means anyone who is not a PC.
There are two separate creature building rules sets: one for building player characters and one for everything else: monsters. Hence that term encompasses everything from Demogorgon to sprites to the village barkeep.

EDIT: ninja'd! 
Thanks for the explanation!
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
It might be productive to give a more detailed explanation of the character concepts for the PCs for folks that don't read 3.5. Knowing what the character is supposed to be could make it easier for others to help realize it as a 4th edition build.
Good point.

For argument's sake, assume that the NPCs need to be statted out as PCs. I might want to play one.

Hattori Hanzo: the greatest crafter to ever live. He's got a caster level of almost 70 for the purposes of creating magic weapons & armor, as well as a craft check of 50, at the minimum.
Reveternal Blade: Supercharger. That's it in a nutshell. He dishes out enough enough damage to kill an opponent of equal CR in one round.
Kris: The way she's built, she heals every time she hits. The goal is battlefield control and survivability, because she's not likely to dish out enough damage to kill an opponent without assistance.
Reach Tiger: I wanted a shifter who turned into a weretiger. Large creature, reach, and extended reach means that he's not likely to be hit by anything smaller than Huge size.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Hattori Hanzo: the greatest crafter to ever live. He's got a caster level of almost 70 for the purposes of creating magic weapons & armor, as well as a craft check of 50, at the minimum.


There are no craft rules in 4E, so your Hattori Hanzo is anything, probably a bard or artificer,  that has the Enchant Item, Disenchant Item and Transfer Enchantment rituals, as well as several feats that allow you to either reduce the cost or casting time of rituals or allow free castings...

Reveternal Blade: Supercharger. That's it in a nutshell. He dishes out enough enough damage to kill an opponent of equal CR in one round.


The charge package can be bolted onto damn near anything and be made a competent striker. Barbarians are good for charging, or if you want a more arcane feel an Eldritch Strike-using warlock or paladin/warlock hybrid - as a half-elf, you can also use your racial ability to gain an at-will power from another class to pick up eldritch strike and then take a feat in paragon tier to make it a true at-will.

Kris: The way she's built, she heals every time she hits. The goal is battlefield control and survivability, because she's not likely to dish out enough damage to kill an opponent without assistance.


 There's a couple ways to go with that depending on what aspect you want to emphasise. Runepriest (armored healer/buffer), Invoker (armored controller), or paladin (healing defender)...
Reach Tiger: I wanted a shifter who turned into a weretiger. Large creature, reach, and extended reach means that he's not likely to be hit by anything smaller than Huge size.


 There aren't any real ways to become Large in 4E, but bear in mind that extending your reach doesn't automatically give you the ability to threaten squares beyond those adjacent to you. Threatening reach is hard to come by. You can temorarily extend your reach with weapon attacks fairly easily, though - and you can reflavor the Werewolf theme as a weretiger.
Is it more of a defender or a striker?
For a defender, Longtooth Shifter wildblood warden sounds about right.
 
 

Show

I am the Magic Man.

(Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.)

 

I am the Lawnmower Man.

(I AM GOD HERE!)

 

I am the Skull God.

(Koo Koo Ka Choo)

 

There are reasons they call me Mad...

None of your ideas really fit for Kris. I picture it more as a highly mobile, lightly armored healing controller.
For the Reach tiger: there aren't any Weretigers anymore? No reach weapons, either? Also, I see it more as a striker with defensive qualities.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
None of your ideas really fit for Kris. I picture it more as a highly mobile, lightly armored healing controller.



Runepriest.  Serene Blade artistry.  Done.
For the Reach tiger: there aren't any Weretigers anymore? No reach weapons, either? Also, I see it more as a striker with defensive qualities.


There are three were-themes: Werewolf, Werebear, and Wererat.  But you can refluff any of these into a Weretiger.

As for reach weapons, there is a difference between reach and threatening reach.  There are plenty of weapons and powers for extending your reach for when you attack on your turn.  But threatening reach, which allows you to make opportunity attacks for leaving non-adjacent squares, is hard to come by.


Ugh. Makes me miss the days of polearms.
The werebear would probably work better than werewolf; the tiger is superstrong, as well as superfast.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Your Hattori Hanzo is definitely an Artificer, in best case even a Tinker Gnome one. There are items out there that get pretty ridiculous with such a guy in the party.
I've removed content from this thread. Trolling/baiting is a violation of the Code of Conduct

You can review the Code of Conduct here: company.wizards.com/conduct

Please remember to keep your posts polite, on topic and refrain from personal attacks. You are free to disagree with one another as long as it is done in a respectful manner. 
I can't help but to feel like these particular four characters were chosen with an ulterior motive. These four concepts all rely heavily on mechanics that were deliberately removed from 4th Edition or systems that weren't ported over. That's not to say they /can't/ be converted, but their conversion will not be exact by a long shot. In the event I am wrong, and these requests were actually in good faith, I would suggest keeping in mind the following:

1.   Dungeons and Dragons is a narrative game. Characters are defined by the 'aggregate of their features and traits'. Lacking a specific trait (reach, for example) does not make them 'not that character', unless that feature is truly fundamental to the character concept.
2.   Many of the systems used in the builds you requested did not exist for the first half decade of 3rd Edition. Their non-existance in 4th Edition proves nothing. Especially in the case of Incarnum, since that book was rubbish from both a commercial and critical standpoint the first time around and even if 4th Edition had lasted a bajillion years, that would never have been ported over. That said, 4th Edition can still reasonably cover most of the narrative effects if not the specific mechanics.
3.   Characters exist within the context of their world and the framework of their rules system. As the framework of 4th Edition is different from 3rd, the characters will obviously be different as well. Magic item creation falls pretty firmly in that category. 

That said, I think you propose an interesting challenge in choosing four character concepts that are intentionally difficult to convert. I think I'll actually give it a shot when I get back home and have access to my books.
I'm not a lawyer, I just play one on TV.
They're the builds of mine that I'm most proud of, that's all. I'm not looking for "exact", since I know that's not possible; what I'm looking for is "feels like the same character".
That means that, like I said a few posts ago, the Reverternal Blade should still be able to run around and kill things when it's his turn (which is usually first). Hanzo should be the greatest craftsman of arms & armor walking the Planes (up to the point of being able to challenge the gods, a lá Arachne). Kris should be able to control the battlefield, wherever she might be standing at any particular time, and be able to heal herself (and her allies) enough to survive her low damage output. And the Reach Tiger I actually thought would be simple (I didn't know reach got killed): it puts out an "average" amount of damage, while keeping things far enough away not to be hit.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Uh, those are all pretty trivial. Not seeing the problem. Just level up. There is also a class (Warden) and a PP (Polearm Master) that focus on having a threatening reach equivalent.

Both of you have mentioned "monsters" in reference to the NPCs, but they're nothing more than a dwarf and an elf. Would you mind explaining what you mean by choosing the term monster?



Dwarves and Elves are monsters. They will kill us all if we let down our guard. Don't trust the half-breeds either. They're just going to sell us out when the time comes.

Oh, and if you want to turn into a large animal, the Sovereign Beast ED does that.
Oh, and if you want to turn into a large animal, the Sovereign Beast ED does that.

Oooh... you're a genius. That's a pretty good way to pull off that concept. Requires some weird multiclassing or hybridclassing, but it's workable.

I'm not a lawyer, I just play one on TV.
And... What exactly is that?
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
I don't have a DDI subscription. I didn't like 4e enough to pay a monthly fee not to play it.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Then go here, type in "sovereign beast", see the source that comes up, fetch that source, and read it.

I already told you what it is: an ED that lets you turn into a large animal.
The crafting mini-game is much less mandatory in 4e.
You basically have 2 options:  Wishlist or Boons.

I think what you can fluff-text, is when a PC gets a
magic item on his wishlist, somebody somewhere
made it.  That somebody is a consistent +4 levels
on the "regular" PCs.  Separately you can include
Artifacts in your homegame, and those rules are
easy enough to follow.

Boons can take it a step closer.  Grandmaster
Training isn't explicitly spelled out to be only
training, it could include an underlying magic item.
The combo of the item and the training to use the
item = higher ranking dude who trains you, and
knew previously before you did how to make the
item.  OR a Diety of armorsmithing is deigning you
with a Divine Boon because he's gotta prove to
The World at large, that he's the best crafter/booner.
etc ...


EDIT ---  I mean hell, conversion of a PC is not an Edition war starter.
The games are different and it takes a little work, imagination, fudging.


Here comes your 19th forums breakdown ... ohh who's to blame, it ain't 5E driving you insane.

 

Really? When did "I don't like..." become trolling? Hell, if DDI had been available for 3.5, I would have taken advantage of it. But I haven't played in almost 3 years, so I would have the subscription because...

... Wait for it...

I don't like 3.5 (or video games, or any other game) enough to pay a monthly fee not to play it. Now, if "I refuse to pay to not play" is Edition Warring, I guess I'm guilty, but maybe you (plural) are taking offense where none is given.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
I know this is charop, we deal with rules as written, blah, blah, but... This question just feels like a "General Discussion" question. And so here is how this would work in my game.

Player: I want to be a crafter.
Me: Great! Be sure not to spend a single feat on it. I'll let the players give you their item wish lists and we'll work the rest out in game.

...in game...

Me: You search around the dead alchemist's lab and find some thoqqua tails, an obisidian dagger, some pyressence, few rhemoraz scales and some sirrocan thread.
Player: (looks through list) Can I make a flaming dagger for the tiefling, and enchant the fighter's cloak into a Cloak of Survival with this stuff?
Me: Yup, you can take them back to your lab, and put those together in the next couple days, while you guys recover from your ordeal with the possessed alchemist and his minions, and can use the down time to search for information on who was behind it all to go after them next if you like.

Done. Being able to make an item or not, doesn't really play into anything that happens between rolling initiative and calling a fight, which is really the set of relevant rules on your character sheet. Stuff you can do outside of combat in 4e is pretty undefined, and therefore incredibly flexible, and almost completely in the hands of the DM. I've had PC's who could fly air ships, talk to animals, connect with ghosts, even warp probability, none of which was written in power form on a character sheet. 
I know this is charop, we deal with rules as written, blah, blah, but... This question just feels like a "General Discussion" question.

It was recommended there that i try it here. Sorry.
And so here is how this would work in my game.

Player: I want to be a crafter.
Me: Great! Be sure not to spend a single feat on it. I'll let the players give you their item wish lists and we'll work the rest out in game.

...in game...

Me: You search around the dead alchemist's lab and find some thoqqua tails, an obisidian dagger, some pyressence, few rhemoraz scales and some sirrocan thread.
Player: (looks through list) Can I make a flaming dagger for the tiefling, and enchant the fighter's cloak into a Cloak of Survival with this stuff?
Me: Yup, you can take them back to your lab, and put those together in the next couple days, while you guys recover from your ordeal with the possessed alchemist and his minions, and can use the down time to search for information on who was behind it all to go after them next if you like.

Done. Being able to make an item or not, doesn't really play into anything that happens between rolling initiative and calling a fight, which is really the set of relevant rules on your character sheet. Stuff you can do outside of combat in 4e is pretty undefined, and therefore incredibly flexible, and almost completely in the hands of the DM. I've had PC's who could fly air ships, talk to animals, connect with ghosts, even warp probability, none of which was written in power form on a character sheet. 

That waacquire informative. Thank you!
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
I know this is charop, we deal with rules as written, blah, blah, but... This question just feels like a "General Discussion" question. And so here is how this would work in my game.

Player: I want to be a crafter.
Me: Great! Be sure not to spend a single feat on it. I'll let the players give you their item wish lists and we'll work the rest out in game.

...in game...

Me: You search around the dead alchemist's lab and find some thoqqua tails, an obisidian dagger, some pyressence, few rhemoraz scales and some sirrocan thread.
Player: (looks through list) Can I make a flaming dagger for the tiefling, and enchant the fighter's cloak into a Cloak of Survival with this stuff?
Me: Yup, you can take them back to your lab, and put those together in the next couple days, while you guys recover from your ordeal with the possessed alchemist and his minions, and can use the down time to search for information on who was behind it all to go after them next if you like.

Done. Being able to make an item or not, doesn't really play into anything that happens between rolling initiative and calling a fight, which is really the set of relevant rules on your character sheet. Stuff you can do outside of combat in 4e is pretty undefined, and therefore incredibly flexible, and almost completely in the hands of the DM. I've had PC's who could fly air ships, talk to animals, connect with ghosts, even warp probability, none of which was written in power form on a character sheet. 

That's a great way to handle it actually. Very narrative and unobtrusive. It's DM fudgery, but that's really what the DM is for. ;)  And you make a great point about 4e being undefined outside of combat. I think that's both one of it's greatest strengths and one of it's greatest weaknesses.

There are backgrounds that allow for magic item creation though, so I (as the DM) would likely require that, but otherwise I think that's a great way to handle that concept.
I'm not a lawyer, I just play one on TV.
So conversion is possible if we sorta just wing it but mechanically notsomuch.  Got it.
Resident Prophet of the OTTer.

Section Six Soldier

Front Door of the House of Trolls

[b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]

For the master craftsman/enchanter.
If a noteworthy part of the character's yearly income is from selling his wares then your DM could write skill challenges with GP and EXP rewards representing you makeing a sword worthy of a king.
Endurance to pound the metal for a long time
Athletics to pound it flat
History or Arcana to remember the secrets of Demascus in the smallest detail
Theivery for the fine filegree work   
Nature or Dungoneering to pick the best grade metal

Your DM could also use the GP reward from a skill challenge to partly cover the cost of a magic item used by the party. so instead of 300 out of pocket it could be 200 out of pocket and time and skill checks.

That is one of the things some people miss in the 4E rules, if a out of combat skill or action is important to the story it can be writen up as a skill challenge   
The sea looks at the stabillity of the mountian and sighs. The mountian watches the freedom of the sea and cries.
Sign In to post comments