Magic 2014 "Sliver Hive" Decklist and Strategies

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The creature curve in this deck is way to high for Armageddon to be even remotely playable (unless you are trolling the opponent or want to play a fun build rather than a winning one).

There's a lot of 5+ drops up there...
I hate your dress. But I will fight to the death for your right to where it. - Voltaire


EDIT: So far as "choose a creature type", it's not at all difficult. Modders have done it in a somewhat clunky fashion (set to default of the creature type you're playing) with "previous" and "next" options, but a UI menu with a list of creature types in the Duels series would take maybe a good twenty minutes to implement. MODO does a similar interface, and you can type the first few letters to have it zoom in on the most applicable creature type. 



This UI menu takes 20 minutes to implement and 20 minutes to find the type you want every time you play the card

What MODO does is good, but typing is not a good option with consoles in the mix, especially when you have timers in the game.

I'm not saying it can't be done, or that would be hard. I just think it's hard to figure a good interface for it that is simple and doesn't take forever to use.




Now I'm thinking more about 'Geddon in this deck. 'Geddon is at its best in fast aggro decks. What's the fastest start this deck has? I think it's Striking into Predatory into Blur (2/2 First Strike attacking on turn 2, 2 2/2 and a 3/3, all first strikers, attacking on turn 3). A Last Gasp on turn 2 and something on turn 3 and your board is too weak to 'Geddon your opponent out of the game. If "something" is a discard spell or another removal, things will be even worse.

Now, by playing 'Geddon, you're basically ignoring some very good mid to late game options this deck has, like Megantic Sliver and [/c]Mirror Entity[/c].

I know it's too early to say anything concrete, but I foresee two ways to build this deck: a fast aggro deck (with 'Geddon and very few expensive cards) and a midrange beatdown deck (without 'Geddon and with good, more expensive card instead). The deck has only 1 good 1-drop and 2 good 2-drops, so I'll probably play with the midrange version first...



I agree that the deck will probably end up as more midrange than aggro, but it still looks very good. +3/+3 plus double strike sliver is a game winning alone. And while the deck can't really rely on geddon turn 4, it's still an incredibly powerfull card that effectively rubs your opponent of any chance to come back in the game as soon as you are ahead on board.


EDIT: So far as "choose a creature type", it's not at all difficult. Modders have done it in a somewhat clunky fashion (set to default of the creature type you're playing) with "previous" and "next" options, but a UI menu with a list of creature types in the Duels series would take maybe a good twenty minutes to implement.



This UI menu takes 20 minutes to implement and 20 minutes to find the type you want every time you play the card

What MODO does is good, but typing is not a good option with consoles in the mix, especially when you have timers in the game.

I'm not saying it can't be done, or that would be hard. I just think it's hard to figure a good interface for it that is simple and doesn't take forever to use.


Wasn't Patriarch's Bidding or something similar already in the first game? It was in one of the challenges.



I agree that the deck will probably end up as more midrange than aggro, but it still looks very good. +3/+3 plus double strike sliver is a game winning alone. And while the deck can't really rely on geddon turn 4, it's still an incredibly powerfull card that effectively rubs your opponent of any chance to come back in the game as soon as you are ahead on board.



It will make your draws a lot more clunky, though. A 'Geddon in hand will be a dead card or will make your expensive spells dead cards. I think focusing your deck in one path or another is better than trying to include a 'Geddon in a midrange deck.

Another thing to notice is that you really need a board presence to 'Geddon. Desolation Angel was awesome because the 'Geddon was in a 5/4 evasive body. She brought the board presence with her.

WotC doesn't care about flavor. Their forum is the only place where an ORC can kill a troll...

Lost around 120 posts in the forum migration

Post #1000 on Feb 02, 2013

Post #2000 on Sep 04, 2013

Path to Exile works to clear a way through earlier on, which also loads your opponent up on more lands, making Armageddon more useful.

This deck has many good ways of recovering faster after Armageddon, and plenty of good cards to help with having the better board position before you fire it off.

Great removal, resiliency, and ramp.  There are a good number of more expensive creatures, but if you keep the number of them to a minimum and keep the ramp up, 'geddon will be an all-star.
Sure the Slivers do cost a bit and there are three colors to manage. But that downside is completely negated by the ramp/fixing available.

The inclusion of Armageddon is just ridiculous, because I don't think this deck will have too much trouble establishing a dominant board position; and once it does, it's lights out.

I probably won't be buying this right away in the hopes that most of the aggro-spamming leaderboard-chasers will have grown tired of it and moved on.
Awwww, come on Hakeem, don't be one of those guys! Anyways, those dudes never go away. I don't even start playing ranked until about a week or two after release.
I probably won't be buying this right away in the hopes that most of the aggro-spamming leaderboard-chasers will have grown tired of it and moved on.



When you came here you were so full of life!  What have these boards done to you????

No non-M14 slivers.

Just saying.



Just a regular day at the Dotp office:

"Okay, so we can't put the old slivers in the deck.."
"No, the players wouldn't understand cards doing different things, they're like babies you know?"
"Yeah..."
"But if it's old cards you want in the deck, how about these armageddons and other legacy cards I got laying around?"
"Perfect! As long as they're old cards, all the grumpy players on the Dotp board will be happy and maybe will stop getting all these emails.."

 


If it helps, you did have me shaken from my 100% likelihood that it would be M14-exclusive, though I did feel it was the most probable scenario.
However, I didn't think so far as to predict the rest of the deck would be search and recursion in addition to your predicted ramp and removal. Nor did I see Armageddon coming.

I want to play this deck for Lifeline though. I was the first in my area to abuse that card when it came out.
<3 Urza Block.
@Hakeem928

Ramp cost deckspace and this deck don't need that many mana. There is almost no card with cost 6+ there is nothing where you can ramp into, you need it only to fix the manabase. Dracomancer can ramp into fat hasty dragons, Chant into fatties everywhere, but ramp into a single sliver? No, a sliver alone is too weak, the deck need many slivers, thats the maindifference. A Flameblast Dragon or a Pelakka Wurm can control the battlefield, a Groundshaker sliver alone not. The goal is to get many different sliver out on the field, but the manabase could ruin this:
You need ramp to fix the mana -> ramp need deckspace -> less deckspace for slivers -> worse draws and starthand + no carddraw = not good.

This, plus many cards with cost of 3-5 mana make it slower. The more i think about it, the more it looks weaker for me. Sure, there will be better hands, sure Armageddon could rock and Lifeline is imba, but it's 3 color manabase is much more a curse than a blessing, because i see no snyergy with the colours beside of the Slivercards.
You know, I was just thinking... I'm really surprised they included Armageddon. If they were going to put a land wipe card in, I would have expected something more expensive like Catastrophe or less simple like Impending Disaster.

If it helps, you did have me shaken from my 100% likelihood that it would be M14-exclusive, though I did feel it was the most probable scenario.
However, I didn't think so far as to predict the rest of the deck would be search and recursion in addition to your predicted ramp and removal. Nor did I see Armageddon coming.

I want to play this deck for Lifeline though. I was the first in my area to abuse that card when it came out.
<3 urza="" block="" :="" quote="" br="" class="mbQuoteSpacer">



I guess i was underrestimating the pedagogical nature of duels a bit  One would think that after 4 games, the designers wouldn't be so afraid to actually encourage players to read the cards, but yeah I guess the games' prime audience are still new players. 

Still think the deck would have been more interesting with a mix of old and new slivers though. It seems to me that the designers knew having only 10 different slivers in the deck would make it quite boring, so they just threw in a lot of crazy good cards and removal instead to keep the players happy. I mean we have two seperate threads on the sliver deck and only 10% of the posts seem to actually be about slivers.. 

I don't think anyone predicted Armageddon 
@Hakeem928

Ramp cost deckspace and this deck don't need that many mana. There is almost no card with cost 6+ there is nothing where you can ramp into, you need it only to fix the manabase. Dracomancer can ramp into fat hasty dragons, Chant into fatties everywhere, but ramp into a single sliver? No, a sliver alone is too weak, the deck need many slivers, thats the maindifference. A Flameblast Dragon or a Pelakka Wurm can control the battlefield, a Groundshaker sliver alone not. The goal is to get many different sliver out on the field, but the manabase could ruin this:
You need ramp to fix the mana -> ramp need deckspace -> less deckspace for slivers -> worse draws and starthand + no carddraw = not good.

This, plus many cards with cost of 3-5 mana make it slower. The more i think about it, the more it looks weaker for me. Sure, there will be better hands, sure Armageddon could rock and Lifeline is imba, but it's 3 color manabase is much more a curse than a blessing, because i see no snyergy with the colours beside of the Slivercards.



I think you're overrestemating how hard it is to get one land of each color. Where as dracomancer can have a problem, because it has so many cards with double colored manacost, this deck has almost none. Between 4 x expanse, 4 x cultivate and 3 x rampath growth I don't think mana will be a big problem. And I'm not even sure it's worth it to run all the cultivates.

I don't think anyone predicted Armageddon 



Well, IF Logic = "Heavy counterspells/discard/land destruction are unfun to play against so we don't give Black/Blue full strength cards", THEN Logic != Armageddon. Ohwaits lawl we just want the big dumb tribal deck to have a way to guarantee wins. Herp derp.

Wizards: If it isn't game design, we can't do it right. Frankly, we're kind of shaky on the game design sometimes too.

I think you're overrestemating how hard it is to get one land of each color. Where as dracomancer can have a problem, because it has so many cards with double colored manacost, this deck has almost none. Between 4 x expanse, 4 x cultivate and 3 x rampath growth I don't think mana will be a big problem. And I'm not even sure it's worth it to run all the cultivates.



I don't think he's saying so much that it'll be hard with the cards given to get the colors you need.. only that without draw it might be hard to get the ramp/fixing you need *and* the land *and* your spells *and* be able to drop 3+ slivers.  It reduces the reliability of the deck some when you need a couple of things to go right to get started (and not get disrupted somehow in the process through removal or discard).

My my, are the usual suspects at it again... .

Anyhow, it looks quite strong. Wonder what the promos are.

Absurdity, n. A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion.

 

Yeah, if I go first and have the chance to Countersquall the turn two Rampant, I'll probably take it if I think it will screw them (especially if first two turns were double Forest.) Might hold off if I don't have Moroii or other pressure, and I'll let it slide in 2HG since the game's more likely to go on long enough for Geddon to come up, but in a duel...

Sidenote: Super glad they didn't do this in 2012 with old Slivers. We'd have been inundated with four player 2HG/FFA mirrors. Ugggggggggh. Heck, we'll probably hear of four player Sliver FFAs as is.

Wizards: If it isn't game design, we can't do it right. Frankly, we're kind of shaky on the game design sometimes too.

Yeah, if I go first and have the chance to Countersquall the turn two Rampant, I'll probably take it if I think it will screw them (especially if first two turns were double Forest.) Might hold off if I don't have Moroii or other pressure, and I'll let it slide in 2HG since the game's more likely to go on long enough for Geddon to come up, but in a duel...

Sidenote: Super glad they didn't do this in 2012 with old Slivers. We'd have been inundated with four player 2HG/FFA mirrors. Ugggggggggh. Heck, we'll probably hear of four player Sliver FFAs as is.



Well 4 Player Mana Mastery is quite fun if you have the time. But ggedon can really screw you over if you dont save up on those lands.

Absurdity, n. A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion.

 

why only 2 armageddon? this deck need 4 or at least some way to tutor em O.o too weak!!

then add a couple panoptic mirrors and noone can play a card higher than 1cost ever again!!! wooo!!
I'm really just over-exaggerating, but I tend to be annoyed with any sort of tribal-aggro deck. But it's what the masses want, and Wizards don't seem to want any U/B control players to get in the way of that.

Armageddon, though, sheesh.
so...Armageddon...better board position -> win if resolves? I can see an aggro based sliver deck with a  very low curve ending in Armageddon...Also this in 2hg will punish all those mana intensive spells/decks.
Yay! Armageddon!

Actually, I love the Fiery Justice inclusion. Such a cool card.
Hehe, I have to agree, I am surprised as everyone else to see Armageddon in any deck.  I also agree that a low cmc build that tops off with a well placed armageddon will be pretty awesome.  Being tri-color will slow it down enough to not be OP I believe.  Should be a lot of fun.  I really like some of the bigger costing slivers too though, I really hope we get multiple save slots in this edition of DotP!!

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But it's what the arses want, and Wizards don't seem to want any U/B control players to get in the way of that. Armageddon, though, sheesh.



Le fixed.

Wizards: If it isn't game design, we can't do it right. Frankly, we're kind of shaky on the game design sometimes too.

I think you're overrestemating how hard it is to get one land of each color. Where as dracomancer can have a problem, because it has so many cards with double colored manacost, this deck has almost none. Between 4 x expanse, 4 x cultivate and 3 x rampath growth I don't think mana will be a big problem. And I'm not even sure it's worth it to run all the cultivates.



I don't think he's saying so much that it'll be hard with the cards given to get the colors you need.. only that without draw it might be hard to get the ramp/fixing you need *and* the land *and* your spells *and* be able to drop 3+ slivers.  It reduces the reliability of the deck some when you need a couple of things to go right to get started (and not get disrupted somehow in the process through removal or discard).




Those first 3 apply with the exact same strengh to the Dracomancer deck though (and because of the mana cost probably more), and I don't think 3+ slivers will be to big of aconcern actually. With slivers giving double strike and +3/+3, actually having 3+ isn't really needed to create a good board pressence and besides if it's sliver you want, hive stirrings is one card that gives you 2 right of the bat.
Those first 3 apply with the exact same strengh to the Dracomancer deck though (and because of the mana cost probably more), and I don't think 3+ slivers will be to big of aconcern actually. With slivers giving double strike and +3/+3, actually having 3+ isn't really needed to create a good board pressence and besides if it's sliver you want, hive stirrings is one card that gives you 2 right of the bat.



It certainly applies to Dracomancer as well, although somewhat less since one resolved Dragon is itself a threat, but you need multiple Slivers out and alive before they're much of a threat.

Huh?

I'm not sure how there can be any debate about the playability of Armageddon in this deck - esp. among posters who claim to have been long time Magic players.

Armageddon has only been good in 3 decks:

  i)  Decks full of 0-2 drops -- curve out -> Armageddon -> draw a land -> play some more while your opponent is doing nothing

  ii)  Degenerate [c]Smokestack[\c] decks

  iii)  Decks with lands that can produce multiple mana and mana rocks unaffected by Armageddon (e.g. [c]Mox Diamond[\c]) not included in ii).

A deck full of 3 - 7 (!) drops is not going to curve out to Armageddon remotely consistently and faster decks (like the Avacyn's deck) is going to render Armageddon a virtual mulligan.

Armageddon will not be included in any optimized builds of this deck.
I hate your dress. But I will fight to the death for your right to where it. - Voltaire

I don't think anyone predicted Armageddon 


I can't be bothered to find it, but I kinda did. Slivers + Armageddon is nuts. It's just not AS nuts without Gemhide Sliver
best deck since realm of illusions, seems like tier one for sure, guarentee it actually



I'm trying to hold off on calling it the new GG, but I need proof before I start spouting that claim. Well, GG that may have to worry about colour screw sometimes, which is a slight mercy, but still.



This seems worse than GG.

Knowing how frustrating it could be to lose lands to Acidic Slime or Vindicate, I hate to think what a well timed Armageddon might do my mental well-being.

Huh?

I'm not sure how there can be any debate about the playability of Armageddon in this deck - esp. among posters who claim to have been long time Magic players.

Armageddon has only been good in 3 decks:

  i)  Decks full of 0-2 drops -- curve out -> Armageddon -> draw a land -> play some more while your opponent is doing nothing

  ii)  Degenerate [c]Smokestack[\c] decks

  iii)  Decks with lands that can produce multiple mana and mana rocks unaffected by Armageddon (e.g. [c]Mox Diamond[\c]) not included in ii).

A deck full of 3 - 7 (!) drops is not going to curve out to Armageddon remotely consistently and faster decks (like the Avacyn's deck) is going to render Armageddon a virtual mulligan.

Armageddon will not be included in any optimized builds of this deck.



See you in two months.. ;)

Also Duels is it's own format, you can't directly compare how a good, bad or usefull a card was in another meta to good it'll be in duels.
LoL at Survival of the Fittest. Strange that there isn't any Coat of Arms.



I guess the Coat might accidentally help the opponent too, so they played it safe and went with Shared Animosity..




Coat of Arms is a beast, but I'm really looking forward to using Shared Animosity in this deck. I remember using it quite a lot back when Morningtide came out and it was pretty spectacular for a 3-cost. Get ready to use that new "Attack with all" button. :p

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So I get back on (Xbox) Duels after almost 4 months. Still the same. Goblins, goblins, goblins, goblins, mill, goblins, mill, mill, goblins. 

The iPad isn't much different.

RANDOM DECK LOBBIES SON! FRACTURE THE PLAYER BASE! DOWN WITH THE STATUS QUO! 
LoL at Survival of the Fittest. Strange that there isn't any Coat of Arms.



I guess the Coat might accidentally help the opponent too, so they played it safe and went with Shared Animosity..




Coat of Arms is a beast, but I'm really looking forward to using Shared Animosity in this deck. I remember using it quite a lot back when Morningtide came out and it was pretty spectacular for a 3-cost. Get ready to use that new "Attack with all" button. :p



A lot of people asking about the random deck aspect. Please confirm if it is available for ranked lobby! Thank you so much for your time and efforts!
So I get back on (Xbox) Duels after almost 4 months. Still the same. Goblins, goblins, goblins, goblins, mill, goblins, mill, mill, goblins. 

The iPad isn't much different.

RANDOM DECK LOBBIES SON! FRACTURE THE PLAYER BASE! DOWN WITH THE STATUS QUO! 



Just do what I do and quit as soon as a goblin enters the battlefield. This will most likely be carried over for slivers.

So I get back on (Xbox) Duels after almost 4 months. Still the same. Goblins, goblins, goblins, goblins, mill, goblins, mill, mill, goblins. 

The iPad isn't much different.

RANDOM DECK LOBBIES SON! FRACTURE THE PLAYER BASE! DOWN WITH THE STATUS QUO! 


1v1 is and always will be degenerate.

Play 2HG and 3/4 FFA instead. Much more variety. Sure, 2HG has its power combos but there's more variety in them, they are much harder to win with and not as many people use them. FFA is rife with boosters and cheats, but play with friends or decent randoms and you'll see many more decks have a good outing there.

Goblins are virtually never used in either mode.
not sure about the history of armegeddon 1v1 first time i seen it myself...but just looking at it...it seems to say 2hg is gameover as soon as my teamate plays some scary 4/5cost like a baneslayer or something when I got armegeddon in hand..

we gonna need a whole lot of 1cost kill spells to make a comback in that situation..o wait hey this decks seems to be holding all the shocks and path to exiles too...O.o
so is this a 3 color deck ... though for sure it was gonna be a five color and the sliver queen in it .. oh well i guess not
So, the only way this deck has to beat a resolved Form of the Dragon is 3 Shocks in a row. Might be something to keep in mind...

WotC doesn't care about flavor. Their forum is the only place where an ORC can kill a troll...

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Post #1000 on Feb 02, 2013

Post #2000 on Sep 04, 2013

Ergh armeggedon...really? I mean really?

Dotp is known for land screw and this will just cause rage quitting on turn 4. Especially if the sliver player has a green and rampant growth in hand...