Echoing Weapon interactions

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Echoing Weapon doesn't allow you to double-dip into conditional extra damage, for example sneak attack, horned helm, or assassin's strike, right?  Only modifiers to damage rolls are tacked onto Echoing Weapon's 2d6, for example enhancement bonus, feat bonus, item bonus, right?  I think this is right, but I want to confirm.

Thanks.
Since Echoing Weapon's damage is not extra damage but its own seperate damage instance, it will get any damage bonus (or extra damage) not conditional to hitting or based on accessory keyword (weapon or implement) or other conditions (charging, weapon attacks etc..)

So let's see;

Sneak Attack: No. Require a hit and is an extra damage to the triggerring attack's damage.
Assassin Strike: No. Require a hit and is an extra damage to the triggerring attack's damage.
Horned Helm: No. Require a hit on a charge and is an extra damage to the triggerring attack's damage.

A feat such as Bloodied Vengeance would apply to a Echoing Weapon's damage roll being unconditional for exemple.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Got it, thanks.
Since Echoing Weapon's damage is not extra damage but its own seperate damage instance, it will get any damage bonus (or extra damage) not conditional to hitting or based on accessory keyword (weapon or implement) or other conditions (charging, weapon attacks etc..)

So let's see;

Sneak Attack: No. Require a hit and is an extra damage to the triggerring attack's damage.
Assassin Strike: No. Require a hit and is an extra damage to the triggerring attack's damage.
Horned Helm: No. Require a hit on a charge and is an extra damage to the triggerring attack's damage.

A feat such as Bloodied Vengeance would apply to a Echoing Weapon's damage roll being unconditional for exemple.



Your argument seems plausible, but how about this:
The triggering attack deals Echoing Weapon's damage. The damage instance is attached to the next attack and therefore part of this attack, cause this attack deals the 2d6 damage as an extra instance. It's just an additional swing, that got his own die and keyword.
So, if the triggering attack is a charge attack, Horned Helm's bonus, which doesn't require a hit, btw., should apply.
 
No its not dealing damage as an extra instance.  Its a seperate instance of damage that is conditional

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Yes it is a separate instance of damage, but it's not separate of the power, it is attached. Unlucky Teleport is separate and even that is questionable. This is not separate at all, since it says the triggering power (in this case attack = attack power, not attack roll) deals that extra instance of damage. It's a separate swing, if you like, that belongs to the power.
Didn't mean to drive you off with my stubborn stance, btw. Is there some RAW citation about this? I see your point, but mine can't be totally dismissed either, i guess. 
Nothing much RAW apart from what the power say and doesn't say (more specifically, that its not an extra damage).


Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

I think it is because the damage from Echoing Weapon happens no matter what.

It is not extra damage and only extra damage is part of the original power.  It is an instance of damage that triggers on hit or miss but it, echoing weapon, does not hit or miss.  The damage is still from echoing weapon, not from the original power even if the original power triggers echoing weapon. 
"The next weapon attack power" (in this case it must mean attack power). It is adding onto w/e power you use it with. Essentially rewrite the next weapon attack power used with the weapon to add this line

Effect: One target takes 2d6 Thunder damage.

That makes the damage part of whatever power it used with.
However, that damage doesn't hit or miss, so it can't get any bonuses that trigger on hits.;
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
However, that damage doesn't hit or miss, so it can't get any bonuses that trigger on hits.;

Yes.
Claw Gloves don't say anything about hitting.  Neither does a Horned Helm.

On the other hand, I'm not sure there's clear RAW about adding extra damage to powers with multiple damage instances.  But there's also a lack of clear RAW about a great many common things, so this is no huge addition to the list.  

"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima

Yeah Horned Helm doesn't say hit. But it add 1d6 extra damage to your charge attacks. I assume here its attack roll and its effects, including any damage roll. Which would not affect the 2d6 thunder damage if its an effect line, not being an effect of the charge attack roll.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Essentially rewrite the next weapon attack power used with the weapon to add this line

Effect: One target takes 2d6 Thunder damage.

That makes the damage part of whatever power it used with.



I think that's the way to handle it. Makes perfect sense.
Does the (Dragon 421) Kapak's Toxic Saliva functions the same way? Extra 1d10 from Claw Gloves, etc.

Because there's nothing odd about a Draconian Werewolf...