3.5 Need dagger for chucking at faces

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Hi everyone, I am currently playing a 3.5 lvl 50 campaign, and I require a good dagger I can throw at people's faces.
My books are somewhat limited, which is why I'm asking here :P
I am a rogue assassin shadowdancer, and I really do love daggers of returning, but also any other weapon you may suggest for my build will be noted, thanks!
Level FIFTY?!
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I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
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Epic level Handbook, of course.  Fifty is about the top end of what you can do before the numbers decend into utter stupidity (and stop working).

A CR 50 monster (the Hecatoncheire) has 988hp, while a CR 48 Old Prismatic Dragon has nearly 1500hp.  You're going to have to do WAY better than 1d4+Mods if you want to so much as scratch that, and a ton of enemies are going to have masses of immunities.

So, your goal is probably to hit at LEAST 100 reliable DPR.  With a slightly lax DM (i'd allow it), Returning will be a real money saver as it will let you throw the same dagger as many times in a single round as you have attacks, rather than having to enchant more than one.  If you can find a way to cause instant deaths, that's better of course, but for right now I'm guessing you're going to be a rogue and therefore mostly removing foes by reducing their hp to 0 by way of every intervening hitpoint.

There are two factors to  your DPR: Hitting, and dealing damage.  Hitting will be helped a lot for a few thousand gold if you can sweet talk your DM: Use-activated True Strike on throw.  Spell Level * Caster level * 2000gp for an effective +20 accuracy forever.  I would NEVER even suggest somethign so silly normally, but you're at level 50.  Even at level 50, though, +20 hit is nothing to sneeze at.  If you can make 4 attacks at +80 total or better, you're gold (benchmarking against Very Old Prismatic Dragon, AC 85.  25% miss rate, so hitting with 3 attacks a round, sometimes 4)

After that, you need your hits to do as much damage as possible.  Assuming we want 100 DPR as a strict minimum and can count on 3 hits against just about any foe, that means you need at LEAST 34 reliable damage every hit.  you get 2 from the base die of a dagger, and +1 from each enchantment... but since enchantments cost ever more, that has diminishing returns.  Take Fire, Frost, Shocking, Acidic, Sonic...  the basic energy types are +5 worth of bonus, but give you +3 damage each (+15 damage).  I've got no idea what your ability modifier to damage will look like, though I'm not sure you GET str to damage with daggers, it's been too long since I've seen anyone throw the blasted things.  If you do, I wouldn't expect less than +10 there, so it's pretty important to confirm.  That's kind of important.  a +7 All-Elements Dagger has a Damage-on-hit expectation of 24 from its enchantments and base damage alone, if you add 10 from ability you're at the minimum bar for entry.  Higher is better: unlike To-hit, which has a soft cap based on the AC you see from your enemies, you can push damage as high as you like and will keep getting benefits out of it.

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THE COALITION WAR GAME -Phyrexian Chief Praetor
Round 1: (4-1-2, 1 kill)
Round 2: (16-8-2, 4 kills)
Round 3: (18-9-2, 1 kill)
Round 4: (22-10-0, 2 kills)
Round 5: (56-16-3, 9 kills)
Round 6: (8-7-1)

Last Edited by Ralph on blank, 1920

An article on the Wizards site pegs the ring of true striking at 400,000 gp in value.  It still shouldn't be hard to afford for a level 50 character.  

A manyfang dagger (Serpent Kingdoms, p152) is a specific weapon that deals quadruple damage on every hit.  (Remember that extra damage dice, such as sneak attack, are never multiplied.)  The triple-throw ability (Epic Level Handbook, p133) makes a single thrown weapon split into three.  If you can get your DM to allow you to add triple-throw to a manyfang dagger, that multiplies your damage output by 12, except for sneak attack and such.  

You mentioned that your books are limited.  However, you didn't mention what books you have, which would be necessary information if you want people to limit their suggestions to things you can access.  Do you want people to offer suggestions from all books?  If you like something from a book you don't have, are you planning to gain access to it in some fashion? 
per DMG, the returning property has the weapon return to your hand at the beginning of your next turn, so you don't get as many throw attacks with it as you have attacks available.

You could probable customize a property called Greater Returning that will return to your hand instantly, but it would likely be worth a +3 effective bonus.
An article on the Wizards site pegs the ring of true striking at 400,000 gp in value.  It still shouldn't be hard to afford for a level 50 character.

Even that article seems to miss the point that True Strike is discharged when you hit, which makes the idea of a continuous item dodgy to say the least even before you get into the balance of it (something like Wraithstrike doesn't have that, so a continuous item for 48k is actually legitimate, though you might still rule that one way or another). There's also the question of whether a +20 bonus counts as "Epic" for item pricing; if so, you have to multiply it by 10, so you'be looking at 8-10 million gp (or 4m, if you half it like suggested by that article). Still, yes, you should be able to afford it at a high enough level, providing it's even allowed. But then, that's Epic for you...
Epic level Handbook, of course.  Fifty is about the top end of what you can do before the numbers decend into utter stupidity (and stop working).

I would argue that this has happened long before 50... probably before you even get Epic, to be honest.
My DM has several of the books I'll be needing, but any others he doesn't have that you mentioned I will probably borrow from the library.
Thank you guys very much! You have been a great help, and I'll probably post on here once the character has been played to say how it worked for me :P
May the face daggers be with you all.

Epic level Handbook, of course.  Fifty is about the top end of what you can do before the numbers decend into utter stupidity (and stop working).

I would argue that this has happened long before 50... probably before you even get Epic, to be honest.


There are degrees.  Arguably, the game is broken at any level outside the 4-8 band (and breakable at any level)

Levels 1-3: Characters are too fragile and liable to die in 1 hit
Levels 4-8: Sweet Spot
Level 9: Casters get level 5 spells and their first taste of Instant Death
Level 15 or so: Spells are now so powerful and versitile that, and casters have so many higher level spells, that it becomes next to impossible to compete.  Encounters can no longer be balanced according to the CR system but must be tailored to individual parties.
Level 21: Enter Epic Level and the stupid things you can do there, including the Epic Spellcasting feat as the worst offender.
Level 30 or so: Characters now have plenty of epic options, many of which turn the game into a challenge for Matheletes more than roleplayers
Level 40 or so: Characters can beat up Deities & Demigods Gods without breaking too much of a sweat.
Level 50 or so: The variance and numbers of the Epic Level Handbook become so strung out it's next to impossible to predict them and very difficult to run them.  the Epic Rules begin breaking down even by their own lax standards
Level 60 or so: A well-built monk can now run faster than the speed of sound.
Level 1,000 or so: It is possible for a monk to run faster than the speed of light at will.  All causality breaks down.


I personally think the 1-20 game of D&D 3.5 is fully playable.  I tend to keep my nose out of the ELH, but I could see going to 30 or so for a truly grand campaign.  I personally wouldn't play at 50, but to each his own.

"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice."

 

Follow me to No Goblins Allowed

A M:tG/D&D message board with a good community and usable software

 


THE COALITION WAR GAME -Phyrexian Chief Praetor
Round 1: (4-1-2, 1 kill)
Round 2: (16-8-2, 4 kills)
Round 3: (18-9-2, 1 kill)
Round 4: (22-10-0, 2 kills)
Round 5: (56-16-3, 9 kills)
Round 6: (8-7-1)

Last Edited by Ralph on blank, 1920

It depends what you mean by "broken". However, the disparities in the numbers do get bigger as you go higher. Epic, though, is a special kind of threshold as it does open the door to that stuff like Epic Spellcasting, which was unfortunately not all that well thought out, to put it nicely.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, for both name and effect, "Nailed to the Sky" is my favourite epic spell, even if epic spellcasting and epic levels are mostly a crapshoot.

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Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, for both name and effect, "Nailed to the Sky" is my favourite epic spell, even if epic spellcasting and epic levels are mostly a crapshoot.


I LOVE that spell.

I know some people I'd like to cast it on IRL, too.
Ahh, so THIS is where I can add a sig. Remember: Killing an ancient God inside of a pyramid IS a Special Occasion, and thus, ladies should be dipping into their Special Occasions underwear drawer.
Hi everyone, I am currently playing a 3.5 lvl 50 campaign, and I require a good dagger I can throw at people's faces.
My books are somewhat limited, which is why I'm asking here :P
I am a rogue assassin shadowdancer, and I really do love daggers of returning, but also any other weapon you may suggest for my build will be noted, thanks!



Hmm ... I would advise asking one of your friends to make a level 50 Wizard and name him 'Dagger'.  Throw that puppy at the baddies and watch the fun!
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