A new action, or Commander strike for everyone

ok, first for those of you not in the know there is a power in 4e called commander strike. it is a warlord at will that basicly makes the warlord give up his attack to allow an ally to gain a free attack.

4e power
Commander’s Strike

With a shout, you command an ally to attack.


At-Will        Martial, Weapon Standard Action      Melee weapon


Target: One creature


Effect: One of your allies can take a free action to make a melee basic attack against the target. The ally gains a bonus to the damage roll equal to your Intelligence modifier.


 



so I was thinking. If we had just an action anyone could take (need cool name) that basicly allowed someone to in melee distract an enemy tto allow another ally in melee range with the same target a free attack, but it is an apposed roll. (I would start with Cha vs Wis as the opposed roll)   If the roll successeds the target provokes an opp attack from the ally.
  


then we can give options to classes based on this action.


Bards get a 1st level spell with range 15ft that is the same idea but a save instead of a opposed roll... every level they increase it adds an addtional ally in melee who gets an attack.


Rogues can choose a trick that if they do that action, and the ally hits they deal extra damage equal to the rogues sneak attack dice (or half sneak attack dice I am unsure)


Fighters can choose an option to (warlord build) auto success on the check.
A higher level fighter can choose an option to both attack AND perform one of the following actions: aid attack, or this new distract power...


what would everyone think of this idea? WOuld some of you help me bring this to WotC attention (especialy durring surrvays)               

Before posting, ask yourself WWWS: What Would Wrecan Say?

good idea, and I will support you getting to Mr Mearls with this idea...


I think 5e is missing out on the 4e granted actions...  
I'm okay with it so long as the monster gets a roll to avoid (or the player has to make a success roll, either/or, although monster-side seems more appropriate).

"Lightning...it flashes bright, then fades away.  It can't protect, it can only destroy."

I'm okay with it so long as the monster gets a roll to avoid (or the player has to make a success roll, either/or, although monster-side seems more appropriate).


That what the attack roll the person making the attack is for.
IMO, i'd make a feat chain.


Command Attack:  As an action, you can let a friendly creature within 20 feat take a reaction to make an attack or cast a cantrip against another creature within 20 feat for half damage.  If the friendly creature does not choose to attack, you loose your action.


With expansion feats.

Full Command:  When you use command attack, the creature deals full damage.

Quick Command: When you use command attack, the creature does use his reaction.

Reactive Command: You can use command attack as a reaction against a creature who just attacked you.

Far Command: You can use command attack with the friendly and target creature being withing 70'.

Master Command: When you use command attack, the friendly creature has advantage.


And of course, the "real" warlord/lazylord get's all that as features.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I recently updated the Warblade with White Raven maneuvers + commanders strike. I certainly like the idea of being able to grant attacks to your allies, but you must remember a few things when doing so because such an ability can easily shift from being underpowered to overpowered.

1. If a class with weak at-wills can grant attacks to someone with strong at-wills all the time, the power dynamic shifts dramatically. It could allow someone with awesome daily novas to also have great at-will capability.

2. If you are trading you action and an allies reaction for a single attack, it might be a strictly inferior option. Especially given the prevalence of the dreaded "reaction attack".
I recently updated the Warblade with White Raven maneuvers + commanders strike. I certainly like the idea of being able to grant attacks to your allies, but you must remember a few things when doing so because such an ability can easily shift from being underpowered to overpowered.

1. If a class with weak at-wills can grant attacks to someone with strong at-wills all the time, the power dynamic shifts dramatically. It could allow someone with awesome daily novas to also have great at-will capability.

2. If you are trading you action and an allies reaction for a single attack, it might be a strictly inferior option. Especially given the prevalence of the dreaded "reaction attack".

1) Agreed.  Warlords where kinda overpowered in 4e for just that reason.  Hence why i started with 1/2 damage and a reaction.  Though disavantage is another possiblility too.  There should be significant cost (3 feats for example) to get a 1:1 trade off.

2) I'm not worried about that.  First, damage now > damage later.  Second, the effects should be obvious enough to make it not really a trap.  It's also why i added that the ally doesn't actually need to attack, as both players need to agree it's better.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

This kind of power needs some limits.  It was the warlord's trademark, in 4E, but because 4E was so balanced it was better than I think it would be in Next.
so all you need to gain another attack is words of encouragment. i thought it was based on the time it took you to swing. at best it could be a feat and then i wouldnt use that module.
so all you need to gain another attack is words of encouragment. i thought it was based on the time it took you to swing. at best it could be a feat and then i wouldnt use that module.



I consider it hard to see myself, but good morale has been illustrated in games before with extra attacks.  The warlord was a great addition to D&D, and one additional reason was that it expanded the realm of things you could do as warriors without magic.  To me, that is very important and I'd much rather have it to counter such magic as "haste".
so all you need to gain another attack is words of encouragment. i thought it was based on the time it took you to swing. at best it could be a feat and then i wouldnt use that module.



I consider it hard to see myself, but good morale has been illustrated in games before with extra attacks.  The warlord was a great addition to D&D, and one additional reason was that it expanded the realm of things you could do as warriors without magic.  To me, that is very important and I'd much rather have it to counter such magic as "haste".




the problem with haste was not its effect, its the caster aging that was removed as a downside, thus huge abuse. so when 3rd came out alot of spells lost the downside that balanced power. the cure is to put it back and start tracking age again. "you want to cast haste 5 times a day, ok your now a 90 year old human".

So think of this:

A round is 6 seconds. During those 6 seconds you get only 1 attack roll. This would of course imply that a single roll represents multiple different attacks. After all it would be ludicrous to believe that you can only swing your weapon once every 6 seconds.

Then what does a warlord granting you an attack mean?

Well the warlord is good at noticing openings. Through skill and tactics they can find the best time to command allies to attack. This means the attack roll the warlord grants merely uses the abstract notion that the d20 attack roll really represents multiple attacks to represent an increase in likelihood that an attack will land. The warlord is not making people swing their sword more times in a six second period, but rather making them swing more effectively.

So no, it is not moral = more swings. It is tactics = more effective swings. Figure it out...
^this + making openings.
 
So think of this: A round is 6 seconds. During those 6 seconds you get only 1 attack roll. This would of course imply that a single roll represents multiple different attacks. After all it would be ludicrous to believe that you can only swing your weapon once every 6 seconds. Then what does a warlord granting you an attack mean? Well the warlord is good at noticing openings. Through skill and tactics they can find the best time to command allies to attack. This means the attack roll the warlord grants merely uses the abstract notion that the d20 attack roll really represents multiple attacks to represent an increase in likelihood that an attack will land. The warlord is not making people swing their sword more times in a six second period, but rather making them swing more effectively. So no, it is not moral = more swings. It is tactics = more effective swings. Figure it out...



So you would have had commander's strike increase an attack's chance to hit or its damage instead of giving another attack?  I see no reason for you to be writing angrily, however.  "Figure it out..." sounds like you are outraged.

One day I was running 4E and the warlord always used commander's strike, in every round of every fight.  Who do you think he picked to give an extra attack to?  Was it the character who had "an opening", each round, or was it "the strongest available character" for that attack?
I'm going to use this idea, I think, with Ironblue's fighter revision.

Good thinking. 
Feedback Disclaimer
Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us. No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC). (And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)
so all you need to gain another attack is words of encouragment. i thought it was based on the time it took you to swing. at best it could be a feat and then i wouldnt use that module.



no, I picture it more as I make an opening with a quick faint...


I put this action up there with aid another and faint.. 

Before posting, ask yourself WWWS: What Would Wrecan Say?