New Legendary Rule

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What does everyone think of it? How do you think it will affect how the game is run?
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What does everyone think of it? How do you think it will affect how the game is run?



Here's a link for those who haven't seen it:
www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.a...

 
No sir, I don't like it.

Specifically, I don't like how only half the battlefield is checked.  Being able to replace old legends with new?  Fine.  But it should work like the World supertype and check the whole battlefield

Though I suppose legends and creaturized Planeswalkers can have Evil Twins now

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I think the legend rule added flavor to the game, the same person/planeswalker can be in two places at once. I liked the excitement of playing a legend and not knowing if my opponent would play their own, just to rid me of mine :/
You are Red/Blue!
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Normally, I think this change would drive Garfield to the brink of madness, but I've got the feeling he had his own hand in this decision. It appears to me as though they're bridging on the Resurrection Jutsu from the Naruto series (that's what it feels like anyways). Under the shadow of this concept, the existance of more than one legendary entity at the same time is comforted. Really though, the comfort is only feigned by a personal attraction to the Naruto series, and that application actually ruins the context of a singular Legendary entity.

Although "Clone" is a logical application, the underlying problem there is that the copies created are legendary—and that's a context issue that's better corrected by using the application I've adapted in my custom projects (by creating nonlegendary copies). This could have all been fixed with an Oracle wording update. I really feel like they are slacking with the Oracle wording, many designs should be properly brushed up—and I don't just mean in wording composure, it extends to operation as well. 


For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about,

IMAGE(http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/7/74/Spr_5b_645.png)

Wow. Just wow. Of all the things that people claim to quit the game over, this one is easily the most justified.

Really?

Damage on the stack disappearing was a greater change by far, and affected gameplay far more.

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

Wow. Just wow. Of all the things that people claim to quit the game over, this one is easily the most justified.

Really?

Damage on the stack disappearing was a greater change by far, and affected gameplay far more.


yeah I understand the "this is awful" reaction, but I actually think it's good from a gameplay perspective. especially with planeswalkers: it's nice that I can use my Jace to kill your Jace, but I think it's more fun if I instead get to also have a Jace.

 

120.6. Some effects replace card draws.

 

why are you here when NGA exists and is just better

Normally, I think this change would drive Garfield to the brink of madness, but I've got the feeling he had his own hand in this decision. It appears to me as though they're bridging on the Resurrection Jutsu from the Naruto series (that's what it feels like anyways). Under the shadow of this concept, the existance of more than one legendary entity at the same time is comforted. Really though, the comfort is only feigned by a personal attraction to the Naruto series, and that application actually ruins the context of a singular Legendary entity.

Although "Clone" is a logical application, the underlying problem there is that the copies created are legendary—and that's a context issue that's better corrected by using the application I've adapted in my custom projects (by creating nonlegendary copies). This could have all been fixed with an Oracle wording update. I really feel like they are slacking with the Oracle wording, many designs should be properly brushed up—and I don't just mean in wording composure, it extends to operation as well. 


For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about,




Garfield didn't create the concept of legends anyway.
Aside from being anti-flavor, this decision does seem more appropriate for gameplay.
Deleted a few posts concerning vulgar language.

Let's stick to the Code of Conduct, please.

company.wizards.com/conduct 
At least Geist of Saint Traft is rotating out.. RIGHT GUYS?

IMAGE(http://i1.minus.com/jbcBXM4z66fMtK.jpg)

192884403 wrote:
surely one can't say complex conditional passive language is bad grammar ?
Wow. Just wow. Of all the things that people claim to quit the game over, this one is easily the most justified.

Really?

Damage on the stack disappearing was a greater change by far, and affected gameplay far more.



...I'm still more bothered by the card face change...
I think its a interesting change that could be fun.  Looking forward to seeing how it affects play.  Perhaps Theros has had a role to play in the decision and their planning a lot of things to do with legendary cards.
I think Theros probably had a lot to do with this rule change and I think it can be a really good one. I'm a little dissapointed that some of my decks won't be able to combat planeswalkers (i.e. kill them) by cloning them but I can now have their abilities... hmm. i think I will like the change
My Commander decks! http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29942477/Endrek_Sahr,_Master_of_Disaster http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29942329/*Rumbling_Stomach_Noises*_Guildpact_Borborygmos_Deck
No sir, I don't like it.

Specifically, I don't like how only half the battlefield is checked.  Being able to replace old legends with new?  Fine.  But it should work like the World supertype and check the whole battlefield

Though I suppose legends and creaturized Planeswalkers can have Evil Twins now


If it worked like World Enchantments then it would heavily benefit the guy casting it second. You don't want to discourage players to cast Legendary creatures just because the opponent can jam another one. This would make Clones even better.

The rules change that bothers me the most is actually the Land Play one, just because I liked the mul daya bounce interaction. I agree that having to state what land drop you're using is sort of silly though.

Yxoque wrote:
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From a flavor perspective, this is indeed a negative change.

From a gameplay perspective, I think this makes the game simpler and more understandable to new players. Really, I think it's the way the rule should have been all along, and that this change is long overdue.

Except: this makes overpowered legendary creatures (or Planeswalkers) now nearly unstoppable. I'm looking at you, Jace, the Mind Sculptor - now, the ban is justified, whereas before any Jace could  blow him out of the water.

Coming up with weird ideas to make everyone happy since 2008!

 

I have now started a blog as an appropriate place to put my crazy ideas.

I can't believe anybody is ok with this legend/walker rule... sad.
I don't really like the change, but at least two people using the same commander can play with no issues.
This actually improves the flavor of the game for me.  Before if you play Jace I can cast spells and kill him, and then play my copy.  How is that flavorful?  He wouldn't join my side after I just tried to murder him.

Now if you play Jace I can play my Jace.  How can there be two Jace's?  Easy, one of them must be an imposter.  The winner of the game will determine which one was the real Jace and which one wasn't.

If you have a problem with the flavor you lack imagination.   
What I found more interesting is that now that old Marit Lage token they printed for Dark Depths finally syncs up with its functionality.

L1 Judge

I am genuinely concerned that this change will lead to my favourite Commander (Uril) being banned in the format.

Then I will have to become one of the crazies that rejects rules changes (like those that still use mana burn in their games, for example). 

~ Tim 
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
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56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
yeah I understand the "this is awful" reaction, but I actually think it's good from a gameplay perspective. especially with planeswalkers: it's nice that I can use my Jace to kill your Jace, but I think it's more fun if I instead get to also have a Jace.

 


Except from a tournament perspective it might often be better to have killed their Jace. Especially when you may not have many more card options to do so aside from savagely beating with something like a Snapcaster Mage.
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92827575 wrote:
57092228 wrote:
What's wrong with my formating?
you make paragraphs shorter than the page width
58280978 wrote:
Names that sam said were "the evil ones":
iamajellydonut glwiley kreewlin and every WizO
Wow! I don't know what to think yet. I'll need to play some games with this new rule to decide if I like it gameplay wise. Flavor wise I don't like it though. I can say that right now. Seems like a paradox to have two Jace's staring each other down across a battlefield. I wonder if a clone exception would not have been a better way to go. Jace staring his clone down is not so much of a paradox. That still leaves R&D with the problem of the versions of planswalkers increasing and narrowing the design and play space for them. It is what it is I guess. I'll still enjoy the game as much as before I'm sure. Cheers!
"You wouldn't like me when I'm angry. I always back up my arguements with facts and documented sources." - The Credible Hulk
I don't like the new rule.

I don't think it fits flavour wise as it allows players to both get Jace and Thrun on their sides at the same time. So there are two Jaces in the universe? Wonderful...

I don't think it goes mechanically as the current rulings are more interesting, contain more of a down side- thus legendaries are more justified to have more power than your non-legend, and lastly and mostly importently the old rule provides more interactive with other players and not just your own board.

Now this isn't the end to magic and the universe as we know it, but I seriously hope WotC reconsiders. This announcement really came out of now where. 
I personally have a sneaking suspeiouus this change is mainly for some gimick in Threos.

That said I do enjoy the other changes: The clarity to indestruible, and the change to sideboards. 
Flavorwise, I'm on the fence. On the one hand, two things make a lot more sense to me:

1) A clone of a Legend shouldn't legendkill in my mind, since it's an actual, mechanical representation of an imposter. The legend should just go, "Hey, there's an imposter over there! Get him!" I feel this is an improvement.

2) Playing two of you on Legends shouldn't kill both of them. If you try to summon Jace a second time, he should just go "I'm already here, doofus." Why would he disappear just because you kept calling his name uneccessarily? I feel this is also an improvement.

But, I cannot make sense of the fact that each player can have a Jace out. Is he a double agent? Outside of clone shenanigans with creatures, a legend/PW should answer one player's call for help, but not both, at least not at exactly the same time.

Mechanically, I'm leaning towards unhappiness. It's good that players are no longer punished for not playing their legend first, but this changes a lot of common interactions and I feel like I'll have to see what happens before passing judgment.
Etiamnunc sto, etiamsi caelum ruat.
yeah I understand the "this is awful" reaction, but I actually think it's good from a gameplay perspective. especially with planeswalkers: it's nice that I can use my Jace to kill your Jace, but I think it's more fun if I instead get to also have a Jace.

 


Except from a tournament perspective it might often be better to have killed their Jace. Especially when you may not have many more card options to do so aside from savagely beating with something like a Snapcaster Mage.


I was never talking about power level.

 

120.6. Some effects replace card draws.

 

why are you here when NGA exists and is just better

Ive given up arguing about it. They are going to do this anyway. Might as well learn the best ways to abuse the crap out of it. 
------------------------------------------------------------- Decks that I play Legacy- Ravager Affinity Modern- Standard- RWU Flicker EDH/Commander -RWU Numot
I was never talking about power level.

 


No, you were talking about fun. Which, from a valid Spike perspective, this is not.
lel♯ jenk♯ ∞


I'm the world's leading astrophysicist. You can trust me, because I said I was.
92827575 wrote:
57092228 wrote:
What's wrong with my formating?
you make paragraphs shorter than the page width
58280978 wrote:
Names that sam said were "the evil ones":
iamajellydonut glwiley kreewlin and every WizO
There isn't ANY flavour problems.  I promise all of you this.  If it does, when you play Kamahl, Pit Fighter, and I play Kamahl, Fist of Krosa, they should flavourfully kill each other.  But they don't.  Instead, he owes both of us a favor, and has some personal termoil, and has some figurative internal conflict.
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There isn't ANY flavour problems.  I promise all of you this.  If it does, when you play Kamahl, Pit Fighter, and I play Kamahl, Fist of Krosa, they should flavourfully kill each other.  But they don't.  Instead, he owes both of us a favor, and has some personal termoil, and has some figurative internal conflict.



Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
"You wouldn't like me when I'm angry. I always back up my arguements with facts and documented sources." - The Credible Hulk
When any Kamahl kills another Kamahl, he's made up his mind, and is going to help a specific player.
When you cast another, (because yours is the that died), you've made him reconsider.
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Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?

Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

Flavorwise, I'm on the fence. On the one hand, two things make a lot more sense to me: 1) A clone of a Legend shouldn't legendkill in my mind, since it's an actual, mechanical representation of an imposter. The legend should just go, "Hey, there's an imposter over there! Get him!" I feel this is an improvement..



An imposter?

I mean, It's an exact copy of the actual legendary.... an imposter is by definition not a perfect copy of the real thing... hence my confusion in that.


On other forms like mtgsalvation I see people say "Oh, the new rule doesn't sense. but the current one does?" mindlessly, idiotically, ignoring that if you subscribe to the theories, consequences of having two exact copies of the same entity - person, or in the case of Magic, Legendary, bad things happen - or they both cease to exist... the old rule followed this commo, and well established concept, the new one breaks it, hence my issue with it from a flavor/role play standpoint.

You have no idea of the magnitude of this thing. A Jace that is divided against itself cannot stand!
"You wouldn't like me when I'm angry. I always back up my arguements with facts and documented sources." - The Credible Hulk
Flavorwise, I'm on the fence. On the one hand, two things make a lot more sense to me: 1) A clone of a Legend shouldn't legendkill in my mind, since it's an actual, mechanical representation of an imposter. The legend should just go, "Hey, there's an imposter over there! Get him!" I feel this is an improvement..



An imposter?

I mean, It's an exact copy of the actual legendary.... an imposter is by definition not a perfect copy of the real thing... hence my confusion in that.





First of all, a clone isn't a "perfect" copy. If it dies, it stops being that creature/PW. If it gets bounced, it stops being that object. If the original has any non-copiable characteristics, it doesn't get those.

Second of all, who says an imposter can't be a perfect copy? How many sci-fi/fantasy stories are there about shapeshifters/clones/androids/dopplegangers where the non-original is completely indistinguishable from the original?
Etiamnunc sto, etiamsi caelum ruat.
I'm... not happy.
My magic time has become less lately anyway... I think it's time for me to only do prereleases.
Second of all, who says an imposter can't be a perfect copy? How many sci-fi/fantasy stories are there about shapeshifters/clones/androids/dopplegangers where the non-original is completely indistinguishable from the original?



Evil one always has a beard.  Always.
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?

Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]


Sig'd. Thank you zammm.

~ Tim   

I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
Glad to be of service. ;)

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

I've said it in other threads about this, but my worry is not whether my opponent plays one too.  My issue is the replacement effect of your own.  I think I'm going to be haunted by J: MA for ten followed by playing another to replace it and doing it again in the same turn.

Those who fear the darkness have never seen what the light can do.

I've seen angels fall from blinding heights. But you yourself are nothing so divine. Just next in line.

191752181 wrote:
All I'm saying is, I don't really see how she goes around petrifying swords and boots and especially mirrors. How the heck does she beat a Panoptic Mirror? It makes no sense for artifacts either. Or enchantments, for that matter. "Well, you see, Jimmy cast this spell to flood the mountain, but then the gorgon just looked at the water really hard and it went away."
I wonder if cards like Phantasmal Image will go down in price a little after this. A lot of the versatility they provide is having the option to efficiently kill a troublesome legend(and it's not even targeted.)
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