5/23/2013 Thursday's Second Feature Article

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This thread is for discussion Thursday's second feature article which goes can be found here.

This article was terrible. The 'why' is just superficial opinion stuff. I could easily write a similarly styled, and totally worthless rebuttal. I understand that blue basically having split cards that say 'copy a creature or kill a legend' is sketchy. You didn't say that. I understand planeswalkers are cool, creative wants to crank out several iterations of the original five, and having to choose between which versions of Liliana I want in play is like choosing which of my children is my favorite. You didn't say that. You gave weak arguments for change but provide no good reason. At the end of the day, this game needs answers more than it needs upside. You killed answers for no good reason because you provided none in this entire space.
The last time they changed the legend rule was just before a legend themed block. Does this mean that Theros is going to be a legend themed block as well? Which would be interesting as Kamigawa did follow Ravnica last time and why not save time play testing both this new rule change and the new Theros cards.
Can't wait until M15 when they send out the interns to physically destroy everything but guildgates and Maze's End and print nothing but those fromhere on out.

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.
Can't quote on mobile, but @pygmyallosaurus: Ravnica came immediately AFTER Kamigawa. The block following original Rav was Time Spiral.
Immature College Student (Also a Rules Advisor)
You can quote on mobile, just scroll to the bottom and click on the link that says Full Site.

RPJ - well that escalated quickly 
This is a horrible change. No two ways about it. Now Legendary isn't even really a drawback.

Also don't like the SB changes. Or the way land plays work now. The other two don't matter.

Sure, you guys recycled PW types a lot. But that's your fault, and you shouldn't be making the game suffer because of that. And frankly, I'm sick of most of the "Lorwyn 5." They're mostly all very 2D characters.

 

(at)MrEnglish22

Sure, you guys recycled PW types a lot. But that's your fault, and you shouldn't be making the game suffer because of that. And frankly, I'm sick of most of the "Lorwyn 5." They're mostly all very 2D characters.



There's a very good (marketing) reason for this. Magic needed a lead character for their product, which is Jace. Due to balance and people having favorite colors, they also have 4 secondary lead characters.

Many people complain that they are sick of Mario too, but he's the face of Nintendo, and a lot of people expect that anything big or brand new with Nintendo is going to include Mario. You see this everywhere with companies, products, and lead characters. If magic just constantly juggles through planeswalkers, they will become random faceless beings that fewer people care about and Magic's brand will be reduced. Having a face for your product makes people comfortable and more willing to identify with and buy your product. Maybe not for you, but it just is.
Also don't like the SB changes 



Now, this is just silly. There is no rational reason to dislike the SB change, the 0 or 15 rule made no sense and was inconsistent with limited. If someone wants 61 cards, fine let them hurt their own deck.

Complaining about the sideboard rule change strikes me the same way as an angry old man shaking his fist at the internet or other technological advancements. 
The change to the Planeswalker ruling I can agree with. I don't think its neccessary but fine. I agree with the idea that if you play two you can pick which one to stay, even for legendaries because there is still only, but the idea that there can be two instances of the same person on the field seems very strange and unflavourful

RPJ - well that escalated quickly 


Maybe, seems like a natural extrapolation.

"Shroud is bright and scary. An ability that requires strategic thought on my part? WHY NOT ALL UPSIDE?"

"You know how slivers share their abilities with other slivers?"
"You mean their entire tribal identity? One that made them even cooler and more unique once other tribes started specifiying 'you control'?"
"Yeah, that's dumb, lets make them Allies mk II. instead."

"I play Jace, the Mind Sculptor"
"Jace Beleren."
"Well pl-"
"HOLD ON! ARE YOU TWO... INTERACTING!?  BOTH OF YOU KEEP YOUR JACES."

Though I'm not as bothered by the other change to the "Kinda sorta unique but not really" rules, partially because I have a planeswalker deck, but alos because as incredibly cheesy as "Play a legend, sacrifice my stab wounded legend" is, it does add a bit of interactivity.

 

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.
Also don't like the SB changes 



Now, this is just silly. There is no rational reason to dislike the SB change, the 0 or 15 rule made no sense and was inconsistent with limited. If someone wants 61 cards, fine let them hurt their own deck.

Complaining about the sideboard rule change strikes me the same way as an angry old man shaking his fist at the internet or other technological advancements. 



I actually misread the SB changes. They're whatever. Makes it so people don't have awkward game losses on cameras at major events run by WotC because they miscounted their sideboard after changing.

Sure, you guys recycled PW types a lot. But that's your fault, and you shouldn't be making the game suffer because of that. And frankly, I'm sick of most of the "Lorwyn 5." They're mostly all very 2D characters.

 

There's a very good (marketing) reason for this. Magic needed a lead character for their product, which is Jace. Due to balance and people having favorite colors, they also have 4 secondary lead characters.

Many people complain that they are sick of Mario too, but he's the face of Nintendo, and a lot of people expect that anything big or brand new with Nintendo is going to include Mario. You see this everywhere with companies, products, and lead characters. If magic just constantly juggles through planeswalkers, they will become random faceless beings that fewer people care about and Magic's brand will be reduced. Having a face for your product makes people comfortable and more willing to identify with and buy your product. Maybe not for you, but it just is.



I 100% understand the marketing behind reusing the same PW's. That doesn't mean its a good idea for them to let advertising affect the game.
The fact that they had to change the rules because of their marketing, and not change their marketing because of the rules, is something worth noting.  

Anybody happy with this legend rule obviously hasn't played against Geist of Saint Traft and Thrun enough.

RPJ hit the nail on the head with the changes they have been making the past few years. Hexproof virtually replacing Shroud in all instances is a major example of problems WotC is creating. 

(at)MrEnglish22

The last time they changed the legend rule was just before a legend themed block. Does this mean that Theros is going to be a legend themed block as well? Which would be interesting as Kamigawa did follow Ravnica last time and why not save time play testing both this new rule change and the new Theros cards.



Yes. Not only this, there is ample reason to speculate that Grandeur will be in Theros, especially as Mark Rosewater on his "blog" made a slip and indicated that grandeur was likely to return, then told people that his "slip" isn't public yet. Theros seems to be another Legendary block.

"Possibilities abound, too numerous to count." "Innocent, unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B. Medawar (1969) "Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a different language and a new way of looking at things, the human race has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to learn his language or his new way of looking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan (Beast With a Billion Backs)
 
RPJ - well that escalated quickly

 While he's certainly exaggerating a bit, I suspect that RP Jesus and I are getting a similar feeling about R&D these days.  They're treating players like rich, overworked parents treat a spoiled only-child.

"Aw, did things not work out how you wanted?  We'll take away all those nasty-old drawbacks.  Just don't cry."

If you're on MTGO check out the Free Events via PDCMagic and Gatherling.

Other games you should try:
DC Universe Online - action-based MMO.  Free to play.  Surprisingly well-designed combat and classes.

Planetside 2 - Free to play MMO-meets-FPS and the first shooter I've liked in ages.
Simunomics - Free-to-play economy simulation game.


"Shroud is bright and scary. An ability that requires strategic thought on my part? WHY NOT ALL UPSIDE?"



There were very few ways to reliably get rid of an Uril or Bruna once the auras went on, or Sigarda or Thrun or Ascetic, or Geist, etc.  Hexproof especially mandated answers that not all colors could acheive. White has to wipe the board, Black might be able to force a sac or wipe the board, Green had no options anyway but was the bigger offender, and Red ... screw Red. Blue's best option was always clones, and now that's gone. WTF? Red's only potential answer was Heat Shimmer ... and now you've taken that away.

So, uh, I guess there's not going to be a Commander release in the future, as WotC has just shafted a major (and I do mean MAJOR) aspect of the format. I should say that while there will be product made, as promised, they won't even try to adjust the product to coincide. This was a reason Legends could be printed at sometimes horrible powerlevels and undercosted as they were (see Geist, Uril, Sigarda).
"Possibilities abound, too numerous to count." "Innocent, unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B. Medawar (1969) "Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a different language and a new way of looking at things, the human race has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to learn his language or his new way of looking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan (Beast With a Billion Backs)
The Legendary and Planeswalker rulings are a serious problem for the Commander format where the cloning of generals and legends is one of the few viable removal strategies.
This rule change will leave entire swathes of decks vulnerable to the likes of Avacyn and other indestructable generals.

All these rules really need for the fix is to make the legends still interact with those owned by other players. Each player can play the legend on their own side and choose which will survive but if an opponent controls the same legend they both get put into the graveyard  just like they do now, this has the same effect as the rules change for allowing the come into play effects to trigger but still allows the tactical play of legends.
It's such a pity that Design and Development appears to no longer be interested in tactical play.

They're Evil they live in an almost normal Dungeon. Oh they're also running a restaurant.

Cafe Gruesome: The epitome of in Dungeon dining.

http://cafegruesome.thecomicseries.com/

 

 
RPJ - well that escalated quickly

 While he's certainly exaggerating a bit, I suspect that RP Jesus and I are getting a similar feeling about R&D these days.  They're treating players like rich, overworked parents treat a spoiled only-child.

"Aw, did things not work out how you wanted?  We'll take away all those nasty-old drawbacks.  Just don't cry."



Pretty much. I mean obviously I'm going to hyperbolize due to my flair for the dramatic aong with a bit of kneejerk from just hearing about this, but srsly. 

Sideboard: Don't play enough srsbsns to care.

Clunky and confusing land rules that stop you from playing a land in 9 out the ten scenarios you'd think you could because the 1/10 was tripping people up?: Eh, shouldn't matter in most games, and honestly I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt on this one.

Indestructible: As "Moonmoon's first card design" as "Target creature gains indestructible" sounds, it's not going to make a functional difference often enough for me to care.

Legend Rule is now the "Kinda sorta unique, but not really" rule: Why even have legends? I mean, I know people were clamoring for there to be fewer answers to Jace, the Mind Sculptor back in the day, but still.

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.
This rule is a flavor fail, another way to dumb down a game (gonna go play checkers now, more thinking), and just another way that they can shut down control. I mean, come on. Reducing the power of clones as alt kill spells? Was that neccessary?
The other changes don't really bug me, but this really gets to me. I thought legends/planeswalkers in hand as potential removal was an interesting fix for the old legend rule. I appreciate getting to refresh or just plain use your legends/planeswalkers, but both players having the same legend/planeswalker just rubs me the wrong way. Bad Wizards!
IMAGE(http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/225/8/9/bloodgift_demon_sig_banner_by_voidelemental-d46gjhm.jpg)
Money money money moneeeey!.... mooooooooneeeeey!

RPJ - well that escalated quickly 


Maybe, seems like a natural extrapolation.

"Shroud is bright and scary. An ability that requires strategic thought on my part? WHY NOT ALL UPSIDE?"

"You know how slivers share their abilities with other slivers?"
"You mean their entire tribal identity? One that made them even cooler and more unique once other tribes started specifiying 'you control'?"
"Yeah, that's dumb, lets make them Allies mk II. instead."

"I play Jace, the Mind Sculptor"
"Jace Beleren."
"Well pl-"
"HOLD ON! ARE YOU TWO... INTERACTING!?  BOTH OF YOU KEEP YOUR JACES."

Though I'm not as bothered by the other change to the "Kinda sorta unique but not really" rules, partially because I have a planeswalker deck, but alos because as incredibly cheesy as "Play a legend, sacrifice my stab wounded legend" is, it does add a bit of interactivity.

 

Hexproof and the new slivers are the way things should have been in the first place. Also, shroud is no more interactive than hexproof.

What's your opinion on Totem Speaker vs Aether Charge? Is it okay for them to work in different ways just to confuse players? Or you think aether charge's trigger should be changed to match totem speaker's trigger? Or vice versa?

How about Berserk Murlodont vs Ravenous Baloth? Are they fine as is? Should the baloth let anyone sac their beasts to gain life? Or should the murlodont only work on your own creatures?


The planeswalker change is not necessarily less interactive. If you've got a planeswalker and I've got a planeswalker then we've both got more choices than if neither of us has a planeswalker. Like if we both have Chandra Nalaar, maybe you're using your chandra's +1 to try and ping my chandra to death, while I'm using my chandra's -X to try and remove your creatures so my creatures can attack your chandra for damage.


Even Maze's End can be interacted with in an interesting way - if you suspect your opponent is only using one copy of some of the guildgates, you could try a little bit of mill or land destruction to throw off their plan.

But the game is far from each player playing solitaire. As long as creatures can attack and block, and Shock vs Giant Growth acts differently depending on which got cast first, the game is interactive. If they wanted to go with your scenario they would have changed all burn spells to sorceries ages ago and put "~ can't block" on every black and red creature.
Horrible change of the rules here. Sam, I am seriously starting to dislike you and your brand of Magic. Wizards, please remove this idiot from our game before it is destroyed.
I agree with WHATC these changes arent just bad they are unhealthy for the game.  Someone needs to overrule this joker and reverse this before it breaks the game.
So basically "We all thought Thrun was super cool and it made us sad that players can kill him"?

 The line "you no longer have to worry about what other players control" really bothers me. If this is indicative of the general attitude around the office, WOTC is actively promoting a brand of Magic where you ignore the other players and attack until someone tells you the game is over. That's not a Magic I am interesting in playing.
Wouldn't this new legendary rule make that less powerful legends printed?

I mean, most will have a higher power level now (I guess my foil Jace 2 will gain in value again)...

I don't know. It makes those permanents less special.

Rules Advisor

The Basic rulebook, read it! A lot of basic questions are answered there!

How to autocard :
Type [c]Black Lotus[/c] to get Black Lotus.
Type [c=Black Lotus]The Overpowered One[/c] to get The Overpowered One.

The entire purpose of the Legend Rule is flavor. The rule exists as an attempt to accurately represent an individual character being summoned: There can be only one. This change undermines that. It literally takes a rule that exists only because of flavor, and removes the flavor from the rule.

How is that a good change? 
IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/c6f9e416e5e0e1f0a1e5c42b0c7b3e88.jpg?v=90000)
Also, shroud is no more interactive than hexproof.


True, that example was less about loss of interactivity and more about the "EVERYBODY GETS A MEDAL!" Mentality. I mean, it's not "dumbing down" the game or anything, but I dunno, I like having to make decisions when building decks. Compare three Runeclaw Bears, one vanilla, one with shroud and one with hexproof. Do I want the shroud or the vanilla one? Are there any auras in my deck? Do I run giant growths? Will I- **** IT HEXPROOF IS STRICTLY BETTER THAN BOTH OF THEM [/strategic depth]

I'm not even really opposed to hexproof as a concept, I just don't like that it's basically replaced shroud.

What's your opinion on Totem Speaker vs Aether Charge? Is it okay for them to work in different ways just to confuse players? Or you think aether charge's trigger should be changed to match totem speaker's trigger? Or vice versa?

How about Berserk Murlodont vs Ravenous Baloth? Are they fine as is? Should the baloth let anyone sac their beasts to gain life? Or should the murlodont only work on your own creatures?


I'm cool with tmost tribes only affecting your own stuff, but the hivemind aspect was what made slivers cool, and it made them even more cool and unique after all the other tribes went the "we only affect your stuff" route.

And if players are legitimately confused by that (Well, after having it pointed out to them once at least), they probably should be playing a different game. That's not even a matter of being elitist, it's a matter of "there's a line." (Compare Time Spiral, while that was one of my favorite blocks it's pretty easy to see how it can create a bit of an information overload).


The planeswalker change is not necessarily less interactive. If you've got a planeswalker and I've got a planeswalker then we've both got more choices than if neither of us has a planeswalker. Like if we both have Chandra Nalaar, maybe you're using your chandra's +1 to try and ping my chandra to death, while I'm using my chandra's -X to try and remove your creatures so my creatures can attack your chandra for damage.


Point, but if we've both got Jace Beleren, then they basically sit around making love to each other. Just like my fanfic. I dunno, I think Johnny summed it up nicely with the whole "Not worrying about what other players control."


Even Maze's End can be interacted with in an interesting way - if you suspect your opponent is only using one copy of some of the guildgates, you could try a little bit of mill or land destruction to throw off their plan.

But the game is far from each player playing solitaire. As long as creatures can attack and block, and Shock vs Giant Growth acts differently depending on which got cast first, the game is interactive. If they wanted to go with your scenario they would have changed all burn spells to sorceries ages ago and put "~ can't block" on every black and red creature.


Well yeah, that was more of using hyperbole for emphasis. Obviously the game's not going to be reduced to solitaire, but when everyone gets to have a Proggy it sorta feels like it sometimes.

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.
The line "you no longer have to worry about what other players control" really bothers me. If this is indicative of the general attitude around the office, WOTC is actively promoting a brand of Magic where you ignore the other players and attack until someone tells you the game is over. That's not a Magic I am interesting in playing.


All right then, why don't you try ignoring your opponent and just attacking every turn. See how well you do. I expect you to make the next pro tour.
In all my years playing magic i have never been so enraged by a ruling. WOTC is making this game to easy for kids now. When I started playing the game was tough but you got used to it and now the game is way to easy for new gamers. Next ruling change is going to be "all players play with their hand revealed to make sure your oppnents dont surprise you with anything your not prepared for.". If it aint broke dont fix it. I believe WOTC is alienating the old fan base by creating a game that is easier for the new comers to learn because lets be honest. they dont make as much money off the old players as they do the new players. This ruling is making the game too casual and i dont know if i am interested in playing the game as much as i used to be. This is pretty much WOTC's way of shutting down a solid level of control and make players less responsible to the goings on of the game. 
Even Maze's End can be interacted with in an interesting way - if you suspect your opponent is only using one copy of some of the guildgates, you could try a little bit of mill or land destruction to throw off their plan.

Pardon, but what does Maze's end have to do with anything here?

In all my years playing magic i have never been so enraged by a ruling. WOTC is making this game to easy for kids now. When I started playing the game was tough but you got used to it and now the game is way to easy for new gamers. Next ruling change is going to be "all players play with their hand revealed to make sure your oppnents dont surprise you with anything your not prepared for.". If it aint broke dont fix it. I believe WOTC is alienating the old fan base by creating a game that is easier for the new comers to learn because lets be honest. they dont make as much money off the old players as they do the new players. This ruling is making the game too casual and i dont know if i am interested in playing the game as much as i used to be. This is pretty much WOTC's way of shutting down a solid level of control and make players less responsible to the goings on of the game. 

Sorry, but I think you're a bit late. After all, M10 was over three years ago now.

Just pointing out that your post could really be read as applying to basically any change to the game's rules ever. Besides which, "It makes the game easier for new players to learn and I don't like that" isn't really the most convincing of arguments.

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

Fun fact, what does this to do fun old cards like Leyline of Singularity and Mirror Gallery?  It is sort of half a gallery if you look at what they are intending to do.  I could talk about flavor but I'm afraid that point is better phrased by others than myself.  Effectively I read the changes to legendary and planeswalkers as "we hate delay of game, let us speed it up" and potentially lead to whoever goes first has a better advantage.  Although what really bugs me on the legendary change is not necessarily the we can each have one factor, its the fact that, oh let us say I want to be silly and have four stab wounds on my opponents legendary creature (work with me here, I know I'm stretching out the realism).  Rather than run enchantment removal it turns into play a new copy and get rid of the old one.   I'd be happier with that change in particular if it didn't let you play a new copy and choose which one to keep but rather forced you get rid of both. 
Impossible to express how horrible this change is. Can you hear it? That was the sound of my vorthos dying.

Epic fail wotc. Epic. Fail.
Sorry, but I think you're a bit late. After all, M10 was over three years ago now. .



All due respect, Zammm, but with each of these functional rules changes (which, as MaRo said recently on his blog, they "don't do") they have deliberately skewed the game towards children and new players, and I see a lot of posts -- assuredly, kneejerk and initial reactions --  from established players who find the rules alterations problematic. They cater at the expense of the quality of the game. They are making a selling product, with 50% or more of EACH SET designed to be thrown away in a few months, and a full 80% each year. This level of intellectual waste is horrendous, and the cost is justified by greed for new players, but not retention. The addictive ink handles that bit, or the massive financial investment and desire to secondarily justify the costs spent by staying with the game. There is a sense of financial betrayal involved, effectively insider trading.

R&D used to put up polls and invite commentary. This used to give us, the players who read these websites, access to discussion with them and gain some feedback on coming changes. Some of us are fairly intelligent, certainly as or even more so than those in R&D, merely lacking the information they have. They claim they have market research, but as with the M10 changes this seems to merely consist of Wizards employees going to game shops around Renton, places that have something of an investment in agreeing with R&D. We have no means of evaluating their "market research" or "statistics," especially as R&D is willing to prime, load and influence their decisions based on biases of want and authority we cannot counter.

Now, we hear about these changes coming up on the set's release, when it is too late to discuss them, to enact any possible changes that do not involve errata, and so forth. Pawns in the game of corporate money making. And because we like this game, we keep playing. It's like a junkie that wants to quit, or a smoker caught in a vicious cycle, and WotC is PhillipMorris. However irresponsible they act, they will keep getting to do this because the outcry is not strong enough (remember, it took them well over a year to even THINK that JtMS was a problem, far slower than Clamp). They will respond and adjust only when it cuts into their bottom line, and the various public faces of Magic are complicit. They want to get paid, after all.

This is, sadly, true for many corporations, and my recent experience at one ended when I chose not to bow my head to irresponsible and unethical behavior that was, nonetheless, legal.

"Possibilities abound, too numerous to count." "Innocent, unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B. Medawar (1969) "Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a different language and a new way of looking at things, the human race has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to learn his language or his new way of looking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan (Beast With a Billion Backs)
When I started playing the game was tough but you got used to it and now the game is way to easy for new gamers.


...yeah, I'm calling bullshit on this. What exactly makes this game easier now than then?

Or do you just want to feel smarter than new players since you were here first?
I had forgot to mention the whole thought now of five people (it is 3 to 5 recommended after all) in an edh match all with karn out.  Or as I had discussed with someone else on this, I have Sorin at 6 at the start of my turn, you have a Sorin out as well, I ulti, costing me my Sorin through his lack of loyalty, targeting your Sorin and two other permanents irrellavent to this point.  I now have a Sorin back on my field with starting loyalty that was not the first Sorin.  I know I'm using specific expamples over generalities, but these cards do already exist.

edit:
 
When I started playing the game was tough but you got used to it and now the game is way to easy for new gamers.

 
...yeah, I'm calling bullshit on this. What exactly makes this game easier now than then?

Or do you just want to feel smarter than new players since you were here first?



Unless someone runs mana barbs, no longer do you need to worry about accidentally tapping more mana than you need (outside of not having enough for another spell) or having no choice but to tap that wirewood channeler and either have a card with x in its mana cost or burn yourself for one or more.

edit 2: So, why are loyalty counters on a planeswalker still loyalty counters if there are multiple on the field?
 
What exactly makes this game easier now than then?

New World Order.
IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/c6f9e416e5e0e1f0a1e5c42b0c7b3e88.jpg?v=90000)
When I started playing the game was tough but you got used to it and now the game is way to easy for new gamers.


...yeah, I'm calling bullshit on this. What exactly makes this game easier now than then?

Or do you just want to feel smarter than new players since you were here first?



Do you do anything besides White-Knighting everything Wizards do?

I mean, I really don't care about this change outside of how illogical it is, but it's still tiresome to see you always defend whatever Wizards do, without ever questioning anything. Haven't they ever done something that you disagreed with?
The entire purpose of the Legend Rule is flavor. The rule exists as an attempt to accurately represent an individual character being summoned: There can be only one. This change undermines that. It literally takes a rule that exists only because of flavor, and removes the flavor from the rule.

How is that a good change? 



Let me echo that!
I do feel that we Vorthos-Players are underrepresented in the general feedback and may just end up unnoticed in the white noise of massive player response.
There is no doubt in my Mind that the current legendary rule had to be changed. From a flavor standpoint there is no reason why cloning a Legend should kill it for example. The new rules however only adress that issue if another player clones your Legend, not if you do it yourself. Matt Tabak's Article even gives an example for a stupid interaction under the new rule (Progenitor Mimic)
Why not just check if the same legendary card is in play more than once? (the game rules should support that, since the attribute "Commander" is attached to the card, too)

I don't believe denying blue access to certain kill spells in commander is a bad thing though. They still have (a little less powerful) ways to deal with troublesome commanders.

WotC hinted at wanting to change the Legendary rules a few times and whenever I read those articles, I was looking forward to the change, believing they would come up with an improved ruling. I guess it's my fault for being too optimistic.
There may be 'good' reasons for what they did and maybe it really improves tournament play. I guess it's their way of saying: "**** casual players"
(Maybe it's the only way they can show us their love) But I refuse to believe that they wouldn't have found a better solution, if they really cared for non-tournament magic. (they could've given destroyed planeswalkers one last instant activation if destroyed by the planeswalker rule for example; Edit: or they could make Planeswalkers of the same Subtype "fight" each other (deal damage equal to respective Loyalty). This would lead to max one standing.)

The other rules changes are all right I guess. I'm not too happy about the Additional-Lands one, mainly because it seems counterintuitive for players who have a firm grasp on the game's rules, but that's a non-issue compared to the planeswalker/legend rules changes.


When I started playing the game was tough but you got used to it and now the game is way to easy for new gamers.


...yeah, I'm calling bullshit on this. What exactly makes this game easier now than then?

Or do you just want to feel smarter than new players since you were here first?

 As far as game play, this makes clone effects much much worse in EDH, as well as, again, removing a layer of skill from mirror matches. You no longer have to worry about what your opponent has on their field, this, in my mind, makes the game easier. Geists in standard was almost untouchable unless you also ran a geist for the removal but that was where you needed to think. "ok after i kill Geist what is my next move" now you no longer have to worry about it. idk maybe youre right. maybe this ruling is needed in some illogical way that i can not see right this moment.
My inner Vorthos died a little today.

Nevertheless, after thinking about this for a few minutes, I'm pretty sure this change will play better and make my overall enjoyment of the game greater.
Still a bit torn, but to be fair, using Clone as a creature destrution spell felt wrong too.
 
RPJ - well that escalated quickly

 While he's certainly exaggerating a bit, I suspect that RP Jesus and I are getting a similar feeling about R&D these days.  They're treating players like rich, overworked parents treat a spoiled only-child.

"Aw, did things not work out how you wanted?  We'll take away all those nasty-old drawbacks.  Just don't cry."



+1

IMAGE(http://i1.minus.com/jbcBXM4z66fMtK.jpg)

192884403 wrote:
surely one can't say complex conditional passive language is bad grammar ?
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