5/22/2013 Feature: "You Make the Card 4: Top 2"

122 posts / 0 new
Last post
This thread is for discussion of the feature article "You Make the Card 4: Top 2", which goes live Wednesday morning on magicthegathering.com.
So it's down to a very good card that seems really bad and a very bad card that seems really good, respectively. My, oh my, I wonder what'll happen.
Man, what is with these crazy short time frames? Is this card being rushed to be included in Theros or something?

"Ah, the age-old conundrum. Defenders of a game are too blind to see it's broken, and critics are too idiotic to see that it isn't." - Brian McCormick

So it's down to a very good card that seems really bad and a very bad card that seems really good, respectively. My, oh my, I wonder what'll happen.



I dread that you are right. I hated blood at first glance, but now have grown to respect it. It probably wont be modern playable, but could be a card in limited and standard.

Revenge is a card that looks good at first, but in reality, it is a really bad, bad card that wont be playable in almost any format. So naturally, revenge will probably win and we'll get stuck with a junk rare that probably can't even have any flavor text.
Revenge is a card that looks good at first, but in reality, it is a really bad, bad card that wont be playable in almost any format. So naturally, revenge will probably win and we'll get stuck with a junk rare that probably can't even have any flavor text.

Or, either one will be costed at six for some reason.

If Revenge triggered when an opponent's card went into the graveyard, it would be awesome. So awesome it'd probably have to be expensive.


Since it relies on discard, it is a junk rare.

I find it endlessly frustrating that each round replaces the previous round so we can't go back and re-read the rules text of the cards that weren't chosen. I'm sure they think this is a feature but it drives me crazy. 
If by some miracle anyone is reading the forums before casting their vote...

Please, please, PLEASE vote for Blood in the Watering Can. It actually does something.

Neither option is going to let us make another Crucible of Worlds, but we don't have to make another Forgotten Ancient/Vanish into Memory either. Revenge of Necromancy is a bad card, and if it wins, people will try it out for a little while before tossing it onto a growing pile of forgettable YMTC cards. Blood could actually be good. We can still save this thing.
The strange thing is, it appears that the vast majority of people who are posting about this contest online realize that RoN is abysmally bad.  You'd have to make it into a Leyline for it to even remotely see play; if you have to pay mana for this ability instead of casting your first turn Duress, it's unplayable.  Hello Geth's Grimoire 2.0, welcome to the junk rare bin.

That said, SOMEONE out there is voting for this thing.  So either it's not "for" people who post about Magic online, or people just are bad at evaluating cards.  Who knows.

BLOOD IN THE WATERING CAN. Yes, my favorite to win is gonna win!
"Possibilities abound, too numerous to count." "Innocent, unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B. Medawar (1969) "Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a different language and a new way of looking at things, the human race has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to learn his language or his new way of looking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan (Beast With a Billion Backs)
Man, if "Revenge of Necromancy" wins, won't that just tell you everything you ever needed to know about the average Magic player?

If you're on MTGO check out the Free Events via PDCMagic and Gatherling.

Other games you should try:
DC Universe Online - action-based MMO.  Free to play.  Surprisingly well-designed combat and classes.

Planetside 2 - Free to play MMO-meets-FPS and the first shooter I've liked in ages.
Simunomics - Free-to-play economy simulation game.

People play different formats. Revenge of Necomancy seems like it could be genuinely good in multiplayer with draw 7s, Syphon Mind etc. I don't see them pricing Blood in the Watering can efficiently enough that it will be particularly good in any format. Recursion is a dangerous tool, so I bet they over-price it out of an abundance of caution. So I pick RoN becuase I think it could be a multiplayer all star. 

For those solely considering two player though, I see the logic of picking blood.
While Blood in the Watering Can looks like the one most likely to be turned into a powerful card, it also seems like the card I would least enjoy both playing with and playing against.

Tap a painland, evoke Shriekmaw, return Shriekmaw to my hand for free, repeat endlessly is just not my idea of a fun game.   

banshee for mana

err maybe the returned creature should have a mana count requirement for return from graveyard to play
People play different formats. Revenge of Necomancy seems like it could be genuinely good in multiplayer with draw 7s, Syphon Mind etc. I don't see them pricing Blood in the Watering can efficiently enough that it will be particularly good in any format. Recursion is a dangerous tool, so I bet they over-price it out of an abundance of caution. So I pick RoN becuase I think it could be a multiplayer all star. 

For those solely considering two player though, I see the logic of picking blood.



It really isnt.  It's not even good in multiplayer.  Is Geth's Grimoire good in EDH?  Is Megrim?  Phyrexian Tyrrany?  Those kind of cards are neat and all, but don't make the cut unless you're intentionally making a bad deck in service of some theme.

Look, it's like this.  There are very good cards that turn on Revenge.  Hymn to Torach, Lily, Duress, etc.  Black's got tons of them.  But you do not play do-nothing cards that add marginal value to good cards if your opponent chooses to let them.  You play other good cards with them that syngergize with the rest of your deck.

Revenge is unplayable at any mana cost.  It would need to be a Leyline to even be considered. 
It really isnt.  It's not even good in multiplayer.  Is Geth's Grimoire good in EDH?  Is Megrim?  Phyrexian Tyrrany?  Those kind of cards are neat and all, but don't make the cut unless you're intentionally making a bad deck in service of some theme.



Yes? How is this a question? Have you ever played against a mill or Nath deck? Wheel of Fortune / Memory Jar / etc. are real cards that when combined with things like Grimore create 2-card I'm-pretty-much-winning-the-game combos.

This isn't to say that Revenge of Necromancy is a good card, but you have some lackluster EDH players if you don't consider a card like Phyrexian Tyranny a threat.
Wow worst two make it to the finals. So sad
I guess blood will at least be good in my mimeoplasm edh deck.
Blood in the Watering Can is arguably better than Oversold Cemetery since it can recur early-turn shenangians. It's a far cry from Debtors' Knell, but unless WotC costs it at something like 3BBB (which actually wouldn't surprise me) it might actually see some play in the slower constructed formats.

Revenge of Necromancy is a textbook bad win-more enchantment that probably doesn't work under the rules.

Oy vey.
Blood could be very good, especially in formats I play (EDH) but I'm concerned they will over-cost it. RON is incredibly narrow but if it's aggressively costed at 1 mana it might have potential in older fomats (RON + Hymn or Pox) or EDH (RON + Myojin or Wheel)

I still voted for Blood because it's a much more versatile card. RON is incredibly specific (and would need to cost 1 mana to be playable).
Super-excited to see Blood in the Watering Can make it to the finals! I'm hoping people get smart and vote it in. If you need any help deciding, I wrote a whole article on why Blood is the best.

Seriously, vote #TeamBloodyCan.
My latest set is in public beta! KOR - Kingdoms of Rabiah - Check it out! Like Uncle Istvan? Like Rabiah? Like Homelands? Then check out theScion's Parade of Planeswalkers Got Flavor? Throw it at me in my Gauntlet: theScion vs YMTC thread. Can the combined powers of YMTC defeat our favorite rainbow-faced card crafter?
People play different formats. Revenge of Necomancy seems like it could be genuinely good in multiplayer with draw 7s, Syphon Mind etc. I don't see them pricing Blood in the Watering can efficiently enough that it will be particularly good in any format. Recursion is a dangerous tool, so I bet they over-price it out of an abundance of caution. So I pick RoN becuase I think it could be a multiplayer all star. 

For those solely considering two player though, I see the logic of picking blood.



It really isnt.  It's not even good in multiplayer.  Is Geth's Grimoire good in EDH?  Is Megrim?  Phyrexian Tyrrany?  Those kind of cards are neat and all, but don't make the cut unless you're intentionally making a bad deck in service of some theme.

Look, it's like this.  There are very good cards that turn on Revenge.  Hymn to Torach, Lily, Duress, etc.  Black's got tons of them.  But you do not play do-nothing cards that add marginal value to good cards if your opponent chooses to let them.  You play other good cards with them that syngergize with the rest of your deck.

Revenge is unplayable at any mana cost.  It would need to be a Leyline to even be considered. 

None of those generate mana. RoN generates mana, draws cards, and creates creatures. I see potential combos abounding. Toss it in a storm style deck with draw 7s and your draw engine gets more powerful. Pair it with Mind Slash, and, assuming you keep hitting creatures and lands, you can wipe out the hand of every opponent. I'm sure there are options I'm not thinking of.

You're thinking of the wrong deck for the card. Of course you don't toss in Hymn to Tourach, Duress etc. Those are just 1 for 1s or 2 for 1s. Even if you run a traditional discard deck, you run cards that make all of your opponents discard cards like Syphon Mind, Unnerve, Words of Waste, Liliana's Specter etc.

And seriously, who duresses an opponent turn one in multiplayer? We must play in very different metas, because if I do that, I'm down a card compared to everyone else at the table, and I've just made an enemy.

Do you even play multiplayer? 
While Blood in the Watering Can looks like the one most likely to be turned into a powerful card, it also seems like the card I would least enjoy both playing with and playing against.

Tap a painland, evoke Shriekmaw, return Shriekmaw to my hand for free, repeat endlessly is just not my idea of a fun game.



"... at the beginning of the end step."

You get to do it once a turn, and for cards like Shrieky, only once on YOUR turn. Yes, that's powerful, but limited in actual scope. If you have flash creatures, more brokenness can ensue, but this means you have take pain for it. You have to devote space to suboptimal cards for make use of it; you have to build around it. You don't just toss it in anywhere as a dedicated player. Yet, new players can use it because they get their stuff back early on, and that's valuable, too.

Revenge is a wasted slot after a certain point in the game. Watering Can is useful from first play to last.
"Possibilities abound, too numerous to count." "Innocent, unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B. Medawar (1969) "Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a different language and a new way of looking at things, the human race has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to learn his language or his new way of looking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan (Beast With a Billion Backs)
Eh, neither of these are all that great.
I'm not realy happy with either, but pleas no BitWC.
It will be greatly overcosted, and if not and in the right deck its just an Phyrexian Arena.
No way they cost it 1BB,
RoN at least has some hope to go for 1B or 2B and could be used in multiplayer with a lot of Wheel of Fate like effects.
Well gosh, I swear there were some actually interesting cards in the initial batch...

Everyone here is saying Revenge is bad, at basically any price.  I'm not convinced of that, depending upon the cards surrounding it.  However, it would only be useful in a dedicated discard deck, which would be seriously unfun to play against.  So the best case scenario is Revenge is annoying and unfun.

So I guess I need to vote for the boring return-creature-to-hand enchantment.... 
I'm not realy happy with either, but pleas no BitWC.
It will be greatly overcosted, and if not and in the right deck its just an Phyrexian Arena.
No way they cost it 1BB,
RoN at least has some hope to go for 1B or 2B and could be used in multiplayer with a lot of Wheel of Fate like effects.



What IS it with people comparing cards to Phyrexian Arena when they have completely different functionality? Reading is fundamental, dude; this thing triggers at the end of EACH UPKEEP, not just ONE player's. It's like the only thing they think this CAN do it put a card in your hand for life!

Imagine instead that this card read:

"At the beginning of each upkeep, you lose 1 life and draw a card."

Would it be "just [a] Phyrexian Arena" then? Because that's a lot more similar to what this card actually does.

Moreover, in the RIGHT deck this thing does far, far more than just put cards into your hand: It means you rely less on drawing cards to get advantage and can just reuse cards you've already spent, as long as those are creatures. There's a reason why people love Oversold Cemetary, even when "in the right deck," it is "just [a] Phyrexian Arena." The card is powerful, and skill-testing. We are so sorry that you might actually have to put two disparate cards together to use this thing.

Edit: Pfft. Changed "Overgrown Tomb" to "Oversold Cemetary."
"Possibilities abound, too numerous to count." "Innocent, unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B. Medawar (1969) "Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a different language and a new way of looking at things, the human race has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to learn his language or his new way of looking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan (Beast With a Billion Backs)
I must be missing something. How is Overgrown Tomb in any way analogous to Phyrexian Arena? Tempo?
Both of these suck. It's like the upcoming Australian federal election.

The sad thing is at the start there were three that I really liked.

Watering can is a bad design, but powerful. It's a build around card that is trivial to build around (well, unless you're playing Standard) and that has a repeatable effect. It's not as bad as that grove of the burnwillows combo, but it still feels like it puts the opponent in an unwinnable situation once it gets going.

Revenge of Necromancy doesn't need to cost zero like some are claiming, it's comparable to Megrim but with a broader range of effects. The problem is that it still only goes in one deck type, and an existant one at that (the megrim deck, which is only a casual archetype anyway). If it could create a new archetype like I thought mummification or eldritch rites would have been able to, I would have liked it more.


In reply to the above poster, overgrown tomb should be Oversold Cemetery
Oh, oversold cemetary. That makes sense.

A funny error in a post berating someone for thier lack of reading skills though.


I have little interest in either of these but between the two I'll take the megrim any day of the week. BitWC is just a boring engine from my perspective.
If Blood in the Watering Can wins I hope the name stays the same. Savor the flavor!
Oh, oversold cemetary. That makes sense.

A funny error in a post berating someone for thier lack of reading skills though.


I have little interest in either of these but between the two I'll take the megrim any day of the week. BitWC is just a boring engine from my perspective.



What has mistyping a name (which you got) have to do with reading skills?

"Possibilities abound, too numerous to count." "Innocent, unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B. Medawar (1969) "Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a different language and a new way of looking at things, the human race has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to learn his language or his new way of looking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan (Beast With a Billion Backs)
The best card in the top 8, Eldritch Rites, got unjustly disqualified so out of spite I voted for the design abortion that Revenge of Necromancy is.

IMAGE(http://i1.minus.com/jbcBXM4z66fMtK.jpg)

192884403 wrote:
surely one can't say complex conditional passive language is bad grammar ?
What has mistyping a name (which you got) have to do with reading skills?



I didn't get it, someone had to point out what you meant.

It's funny because you're berating someone for missing a fairly fine detail (every upkeep vs your upkeep), then you get a cardname wrong in the very same post. Humans make mistakes when reading, writing and thinking.

But I recognise your username now; you're the guy who has insanely boring nitpicky arguments with everyone. So forget I said anything. No sale.
Blood in the Watering Can for the win.

Shame Eldritch Rites couldn't make it. 
IMAGE(http://pwp.wizards.com/1205820039/Scorecards/Landscape.png)
I'm not realy happy with either, but pleas no BitWC.
It will be greatly overcosted, and if not and in the right deck its just an Phyrexian Arena.
No way they cost it 1BB,
RoN at least has some hope to go for 1B or 2B and could be used in multiplayer with a lot of Wheel of Fate like effects.



What IS it with people comparing cards to Phyrexian Arena when they have completely different functionality? Reading is fundamental, dude; this thing triggers at the end of EACH UPKEEP, not just ONE player's. It's like the only thing they think this CAN do it put a card in your hand for life!

Imagine instead that this card read:

"At the beginning of each upkeep, you lose 1 life and draw a card."

Would it be "just [a] Phyrexian Arena" then? Because that's a lot more similar to what this card actually does.

Moreover, in the RIGHT deck this thing does far, far more than just put cards into your hand: It means you rely less on drawing cards to get advantage and can just reuse cards you've already spent, as long as those are creatures. There's a reason why people love Oversold Cemetary, even when "in the right deck," it is "just [a] Phyrexian Arena." The card is powerful, and skill-testing. We are so sorry that you might actually have to put two disparate cards together to use this thing.

Edit: Pfft. Changed "Overgrown Tomb" to "Oversold Cemetary."


Wow it is so much skilltesting to put BitWC with the painlands.....
Its just a card that ends up overcosted and is already overrated by most people on the forum here.
Im not saying it is bad, i just think that there were far more interisting cards that didnt even make the top 8.
And on the Phyrexian Arena note: both get you 1 card for some damage, ok PA not each turn and so on, but the princible is very close. Its just a reanimation twist. And an other note... PA combos with BitWC..... wich again is so much skilltesting.
I can see now how RoN has applications in decks with a bunch of wheel-type effects, but other than that, meh. BitWC all the way!

Revenge is a card that looks good at first, but in reality, it is a really bad, bad card that wont be playable in almost any format. So naturally, revenge will probably win and we'll get stuck with a junk rare that probably can't even have any flavor text.



It will be a crap rare, but is a junk rare not one that's also worthless? This card like Megrim would have a lot of casual appeal so will always be worth something and in demand.

Or, either one will be costed at six for some reason.

 

RoN is a way worse card than Geth's Grimoire (in traditional duels) so no way it'll cost more than 3 mana.

That said, SOMEONE out there is voting for this thing.  So either it's not "for" people who post about Magic online, or people just are bad at evaluating cards.  Who knows.

 

Both, in that the vast majority of magic players do not play competitively and do not care really about card evaluation.

Man, if "Revenge of Necromancy" wins, won't that just tell you everything you ever needed to know about the average Magic player?

 

A lot of players need to learn a lot more about the average Magic player. I really hope they don't stop learning after this one.

 
By the way, I don't know why people keep comparing Raise Dead to 'Draw a card'. The former can be a lot stronger because it gives you choice of which card to grab and if it goes back into your grave you can keep drawing the same card every turn.


A card has to be either usable or worth the cost of the pack to not be a junk rare. Casual cards can sometimes get high prices, but only if they are used in a wide range of decks (especially if used in EDH). Also, there is a much higher printing volume (ie, higher supply) these days. There is no way that revenge could be worth $5 when similar niche casual cards are anywhere from 50c to $2.
Wow it is so much skilltesting to put BitWC with the painlands.....
Its just a card that ends up overcosted and is already overrated by most people on the forum here.
Im not saying it is bad, i just think that there were far more interisting cards that didnt even make the top 8.
And on the Phyrexian Arena note: both get you 1 card for some damage, ok PA not each turn and so on, but the princible is very close. Its just a reanimation twist. And an other note... PA combos with BitWC..... wich again is so much skilltesting.



Yes, because Blood with Painlands is teh tex! I mean, it's so skill-intensive, you don't even need to use creatures!

Seriously, do you listen to yourself say this first and congratulate yourself on it first, or cackle THEN praise yourself ofr your awesomeness?

Blood requires creatures, and if you can control that creature, you can control the effect it brings, be it Shriekmaw, Acidic Slime, Sakura-Tribe Elder etc. You can use it WITH Dark Confidant to speed up the rate of creature use on the cheap without having to spend an additional card. It's not merely CA, like Arena, but is also CQ, like Cemetary. It is both if you are also using Elvish Visionary. Flash creatures work overtime, so you can use this and not have to wait for your turn to come 'round before c=Snapcaster Mage]flashing back[/c] whatever cheap instants you've got.

This is where skill comes in, as you not only have the cards built for it, but you are deliberately using cards to trigger it. This is in comparison to the newer or more casual player who uses this to recur blockers to stall the game, pulls this in Limited and decides that he can use it to recur a critter or two when the other player gets a hit in, and so forth.

But that's fine.

Your other option is a card that stops working when your opponent is empty of hand. At which point ... it does nothing.
"Possibilities abound, too numerous to count." "Innocent, unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B. Medawar (1969) "Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a different language and a new way of looking at things, the human race has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to learn his language or his new way of looking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan (Beast With a Billion Backs)
Revenge of Necromancy has been popular the whole time because it is a great design that we don't get to see often enough. One of black's themes is discard, but your run of the mill discard spells aren't great because there's hundreds of them. Oftentimes, we see triggers that cause discard like DUndercurrents and PQuandary, but those don't create a discard deck.

If you want discard as a theme, there's not a lot of options. Megrim is outclassed by the (still uncared for) LCaress, and we also have QftNStone which is unpopular. But these classic examples all have the same problem, converting discard into raw life loss. Nath is usually his own boss, so GGrimoire is kind of the best one can muster. RoNecromancy is a chance to see another high-quality build-around tool for a still relatively unexplored piece of the color pie.

The blue mind mage gets a host of mill spells with either the goal being the inherent win condition of it, or those that benefit from it such as ISpawn or JPhantasm. The black mind mage on the other hand doesn't automatically win the game for getting the opponent down to no cards in hand nor has seen as much support as other mind mages. This is a theme that now has the chance to bring about a key piece of a cool new deck that has always been mediocre, and fans of black are excited at the opportunity to finally get some more love.
Is it possible to get a redo on this whole thing, wizards can learn from their mistakes, and we will all just pretend this fiasco leading to a mediocre and a less than mediocre card made it to the final 2?

The employees running this thing should be a bit embarassed. This wasn't the fans making the next card. This was an awkward stumble in the dark to find people that tweaked preexisting cards.
Reposting from MTGS, Xenophire:

Instead of taking a reactive approach to people's posts and poor logic, I'm going to switch it around and make a proactive post here:

Allow me to explain why as someone who voted for Eldritch Rites and who started out never wanting to see BitWC win, and whose 2nd favorite was Revenge of Necromancy, why I now want BITWC to be printed more than my original favorite:

Standard: First of all, you should mostly ignore Standard when taking YMTC4 mechanic playability into consideration. YMTC historically has not seen print until a year after it has concluded. That means that not only will Innistrad have rotated out, so will Return to Ravnica.

But let's be serious here for a moment: Trends show one thing, and that is that discard has not been a force to be reckoned with since the Black Summer. Not since then had any deck played more than one discard spell in Standard. The reason for this is simple: Discard spells are generally overcosted or hit too few targets to be worth the mana, and Black is rarely played as a mono-colored deck outside of fringe homebrew decks, which makes discard even weaker because there are always better ways to gain card advantage. Even now, Rakdos's Return is only $5 Mythic because it's benefits are marginal and there are so many better options to gain card advantage, and so it will continue to be as history has proven.

Taking damage, however, is part of any game and creatures with excellent ETB or LTB abilities continue to be printed which gives you great value. If this card costs , where X is some amount of mana, then it's even splashable.

Modern:

Discard is only seen in two forms in Modern: Liliana of the Veil and Thoughtseize. Some times they are included in the same deck such as was with Jund when it was popular, but many times it's the same story as with Standard: A deck may play one discard spell, and more often than not it's in the sideboard instead of the main deck, making trying to throw Revenge of Necromancy in just any deck just silly. Some times Inquisition of Kozilek sees play, but it's usually only if the player couldn't afford Thoughtseize. They're never played side by side. And why should they be? Modern is a fast format and good discard spells are far and few inbetween.

BitwC, however, could be amazing in Modern. Almost every deck runs fetchlands and shocklands making the activation requirement easy as hell, and just look at the creatures that are rampant in Modern. Snapcaster Mage, Kitchen Finks, Vendilion Clique, Sakura-Tribe Elder, Eternal Witness, Murderous Redcap, Qasali Pridemage, Voice of Resurgence, Obstinate Baloth. Do you guys realize how easy it would be to return any of those in your graveyard to your hand with this enchantment? Do you see the potential value here? Imagine running this as a two-of in Melira Pod decks where even Birthing Pod can net you a card.

It's also a good trick. Imagine chump blocking with a Snapcaster Mage after having used a fetch that turn and then dropping this in your second main phase and getting your Snapcaster Mage back, getting another blocker later on and another spell with his ETB ability. This card has a ridiculous amount of potential. And a great bonus: This triggers at the end of each end step, which means if you have to chump block on their turn, you may get a creature back. It will make opponents have to play around it due to powerful ETB abilities.

Legacy is very much the same as with Modern in terms of the potential value.

Also consider what you're voting for will have an effect on Block constructed and limited. Revenge of Necromancy will provide little value in Block where you'll have even less discard spells than already available in Standard at any given time, and in draft or sealed it'll be even worse. BITWC will provide you with value if you go into black in limited by giving you more blockers and the use of any ETB abilities creatures you have may be using.

After all that, if you still feel the need to vote for Revenge of Necromancy, then I wish you the best of luck, but I will say that you're sacrificing an opportunity to make a card that will make many more people happy. While my reasoning is heavily based on constructed competitive play, consider that even in casual formats more people will be playing creatures than they will discard decks. Trends and history have shown that discard has been and will continue to be a poor strategy, let alone relying heavy on that strategy for a card that does nothing by itself. Consistency is the key here, whereas you can't control what your opponent draws to discard if they haven't already played that card, and inconsistency is frustrating.
"Possibilities abound, too numerous to count." "Innocent, unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B. Medawar (1969) "Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a different language and a new way of looking at things, the human race has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to learn his language or his new way of looking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan (Beast With a Billion Backs)
Sign In to post comments