Game of Thrones characters

I was having a discussion with my players about how 4e and 5e seem to be a bit too much about maximising the stat bonus and we started to wonder how viable it would be to build the characters from Game of Thrones tv series.

Now admittedly, in a low magic campaign it won't be possible to build magical pcs but we have a lot of fighters and rogues (and non-magical rangers) and very few of them follow the style encouraged by the stat system of maximising your main stat.

I wondered what people's views on character builds were (class (and build), level, stats,and alignment) and whether they would be viable characters in DDN.  If not, what changes could they make to DDN to make the characters more viable?

 PS Avoid spoilers please!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT4_Fefew78

To quote Ramsay: "If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention."

i called the wedding murders like 20 min before they happened. guess people are dumb, when you piss off a king you get dead quick.

It was the worst kept secret. We had already read the books and we also knew in advance that edisode was going to be about the red wedding lol.

Yep, the book came out 13 years ago. It's probably why there're so many YouTube videos up of people recording the reactions of their friends and family, because they all knew what was coming up and wanted to record for posterity the reactions of the Unsullied who would only just find out about it. ;)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=mux3sFQ46Ck


To quote Ramsay: "If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." 



I fear that link goes to the scene of torture.  Cry
No. The saying "A picture is worth 1,000 words" might not be meant to be taken literally,

But you were taking it literally.

but it's said that way for a reason. The pictures in the TV show are far worse than a typical D&D session, even without attempts to steer it into a Disney cartoon like level of content.

Are images more visceral? Yes. That doesn't change the fact that the content is still very much the same. Hell, the torture which you had in your game, if filmed, would probably be more horrible than anything depicted on Game of Thrones.
No. The saying "A picture is worth 1,000 words" might not be meant to be taken literally,

But you were taking it literally.

but it's said that way for a reason. The pictures in the TV show are far worse than a typical D&D session, even without attempts to steer it into a Disney cartoon like level of content.

Are images more visceral? Yes. That doesn't change the fact that the content is still very much the same. Hell, the torture which you had in your game, if filmed, would probably be more horrible than anything depicted on Game of Thrones.



Of course that torture would be very bad.  I was sickened at the thought of it, and I used it because it was from the book in Greyhawk; a prisoner of Ivid the Undying.  My players fought their way to this unfortunate man and rescued him, then took him to Mount Celestia for healing.

For myself, I always thought the saying of "A picture is worth 1,000 words", might be meant literally, and I always thought it was a challenge to write.
I have friends and family who watch the show saying "Crit.", "Rolled a 1", "Sense Motive check FAILED!" "Should have picked up Diplomacy skill."

Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds. Constitution Based Class for Next!

Actually, it can. You have to not use class however. Use the character advancement table page 5 of the Character Creation pdf to give your character its Background, Skills, and Feats - expert feats are really nice to model non-adventuring characters.

Given that you're stripping out a character class, then no, it can't. If you have to do heavy houseruling to bring him into existence then that just goes to show how right I am. Also, Retainers don't fight for you, so that rules out Bronn as a retainer. Besides, he's far to good a fighter to simply be an NPC Companion.



I'm really sorry f you find that DDN need heavy houseruling to bypass class use for some characters because I don't - for me classes, like skills, backgrounds or feats are a modular element of design. Please enlight me, what kind of heavy houseruling would you need?

Or maybe is that DDN would need too much houseruling in general to make the setting of ASOIAF lives. Well I would say that it needs quite some changes that's true, particularly with races and HP management, but the modular structure of DDN make them easier to assemble in a solid way than any other D&D game that I can think of.

The way I see it, heavy houseruling is not necessary at all because DDN is modular to the fact that you can bypass any element of the game and still enjoy it. Since feat progression is independant of class, like attribute progression and skill dice progression, it makes perfect sense that class is a removable element of the game without much trouble. You could just pick attributes scores alone with the equipments and still create a fun character with this system. That's mainly because any mecanic in the game can fall back to attribute checks.

Since Tyrion is not a combattant nor a spellcaster in any way, I'm pretty sure no one would want him to have the martial or magical talent that would come from a class. Not using a class just put him at his rightfull place when using attack checks (based just upon his strength) - like wizard he just have +0 - and HP wise since he doesn't have any training that would explain why he would be surviving longer in battle like any other hero combattant, he shouldn't have more than his CON mod (since a class would just have given him a hit die on top of that) multiple time the level or not depending on your own view about grittiness in GoT.

Now if your main complain aside from that is about me choosing Bronn to be his retainer, then really you don't have much to complain about in fact. It's purely aesthetical and can be done otherwise easily. I chose that because I found Tyrion to be a duo character not a solo one. If I had to play this character, I would probably combine him with another PC (Bronn for the matter), playing the two together.
Please enlight me, what kind of heavy houseruling would you need?

...are you serious? You said the system worked just fine. It obviously doesn't. Particularly since it's a class-based system and the very first thing you did was eliminate a class in its entirety. A character who has no class in a class-based system is obviously houseruled.

Now if your main complain aside from that is about me choosing Bronn to be his retainer, then really you don't have much to complain about in fact.

Again, you said the system was perfect for it. I pointed out that, in fact, the Rules-As-Written do not actually work in that way, and that you had to change them in order to make that happen. Again, that's houseruling, and if you're houseruling to make things work, then the Rules-As-Written do not actually work for the setting.

For myself, I always thought the saying of "A picture is worth 1,000 words", might be meant literally, and I always thought it was a challenge to write.

It's not meant to be taken literally. Many of the events which Martin describes don't come close to being a thousand words.
Please enlight me, what kind of heavy houseruling would you need?

...are you serious? You said the system worked just fine. It obviously doesn't. Particularly since it's a class-based system and the very first thing you did was eliminate a class in its entirety. A character who has no class in a class-based system is obviously houseruled.

Now if your main complain aside from that is about me choosing Bronn to be his retainer, then really you don't have much to complain about in fact.

Again, you said the system was perfect for it. I pointed out that, in fact, the Rules-As-Written do not actually work in that way, and that you had to change them in order to make that happen. Again, that's houseruling, and if you're houseruling to make things work, then the Rules-As-Written do not actually work for the setting.



Oh I see. It's not a D&D adaptation of ASOIAF you seek for, it's ASOIAF the game. Noted, my apologies.


The idea of this thread is to adapt it. IMO, to better adapt it you'd need NPC classes like you had in 3E. Something like the Aristocrat class is a much closer approximation. Although even so, yeah, D&D isn't the best place to model a world like ASOIAF if for no other reason than the characters become to powerful after a few levels. I very much doubt there're any Level 20 Fighters running around, and there definitely aren't any Level 20 Wizards who can rain down fire on whole armies.
The idea of this thread is to adapt it. IMO, to better adapt it you'd need NPC classes like you had in 3E. Something like the Aristocrat class is a much closer approximation. Although even so, yeah, D&D isn't the best place to model a world like ASOIAF if for no other reason than the characters become to powerful after a few levels. I very much doubt there're any Level 20 Fighters running around, and there definitely aren't any Level 20 Wizards who can rain down fire on whole armies.



I'm quoting my other post since even with the italic you skipped that part
Since feat progression is independant of class, like attribute progression and skill dice progression, it makes perfect sense that class is a removable element of the game without much trouble.

D&D can still be a class game where some character don't use class at all. I really don't see the problem you do. What element of a class would be necessary to make a non-adventuring character happen? I don't understand.

But If tomorrow they design an non-adventuring class, I would look at it and think again about my vision of DDN.
GoT/ASoIaF just needs either a dedicated noncombatant skill class, a low combat rogue class, or a "pet" class where the "pet" can be a humaniod warrior to work.

Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds. Constitution Based Class for Next!

I usually do not use torture in my D&D games or it is implied if they rescue someone from a NPCs dungeon.

 I did make them squirm late last year when they caught an NPC red mantis assassin they had spared previously as she cut a deal to save her life.  She reappeared later and they captured her and handed her over to the authorities. They were thanked, rewarded and got a bit quesy when the assassin was strung up and the scalpel set came out. I left most of it off camera though. The assassin had earlier spared one of the PCs lives as well and they handed her over for torture (unknown).

 Probably why I like GoT. Bad things happen and no healing surge is going to  save you.

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 

I didn't skip it. I replied to it, because that's not independent of character class. Selecting a class is part and parcel of character creation. Classes, for instance, are where you derive hit points from. So your idea is, once again, houseruled. Which is fine, but that doesn't make it DDN, and we were talking about how well DDN models ASOIAF. If we're talking about houserules then again, my point still stands, because if you have to houserule it then DDN does not model ASOIAF well. And D&D can't be a class-based game without a class. What sort of sense does that make? You're thinking level based.
I usually do not use torture in my D&D games or it is implied if they rescue someone from a NPCs dungeon.

 I did make them squirm late last year when they caught an NPC red mantis assassin they had spared previously as she cut a deal to save her life.  She reappeared later and they captured her and handed her over to the authorities. They were thanked, rewarded and got a bit quesy when the assassin was strung up and the scalpel set came out. I left most of it off camera though. The assassin had earlier spared one of the PCs lives as well and they handed her over for torture (unknown).

 Probably why I like GoT. Bad things happen and no healing surge is going to  save you.



Show
wel cat has a sudden resurgence of power, one moment she is crawling with a arrow in her back, the next the grabs waldor frays daugter and stands with no problem that was a use of 2nd wind there.
GoT/ASoIaF just needs either a dedicated noncombatant skill class, a low combat rogue class, or a "pet" class where the "pet" can be a humaniod warrior to work.

Scroll upthread. I think I posted an idea I had for just such a class. It could alternate between a skill-monkey class with no combat abilities, or some minor combat abilities mixed in with skills. The idea was for a class which could emulate characters like Tyrion and Cersei, who're all skills and no combat abilities or proficiencies, and characters like Tywin Lannister, who have skills but some combat abilities and armor proficiencies as well (Whereas characters like the Hound and Jaime Lannister would be straight Fighters).

As for Bronn, that would just be another player. If it were a pet then he would've fought the Mountain, but he didn't, so that makes him a separate PC.

Probably why I like GoT. Bad things happen and no healing surge is going to  save you.

I remember hearing about someone's home Ravenloft game once in which the players were captured by the BBEG save for the Rogue. The Rogue tried to infiltrate the castle and rescue the party but he was then captured, after which the BBEG invited the rest of the party to dinner, serving them a full-course meal which they gulped down as they were all pretty hungry. The BBEG noted how smug and confident they all seemed, correctly stating that it was because they all knew their Rogue buddy had escaped and they expected him to come in and rescue them any minute. He then told them how the Rogue had in fact returned to rescue them only to be captured, and then pointed to the slabs of meat that they'd been cutting and eating from and said, "What do you think you're eating?"

That right there horrified the players far more than any graphic torture descriptions!
Or the crossbow used the knockdown and critical hit tables from combat and tactics in 2nd ed. She still had hit points remaining before they coup de graced herTongue Out. She probably had 2-3 levels of aristocrat which is enough to survive a crossbow bolt ofd8/d10 damage. 

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 

She was still conscious, so therefore she clearly still had hit points, so no need for a Healing Surge.
She was still conscious, so therefore she clearly still had hit points, so no need for a Healing Surge.



Using 3e rules she was exactly at 0 HP.
Suffering the staggard condition, reducing the actions she could take.
then she used a 2nd wind, to boost her hp so she could use full actions to grab the fray wife 
Nope, she still had hit points. She was just hiding because she's a low hit point NPC who can get killed in the next attack. Besides, there is no Second Wind in 3E. And if it were 4E, if she were reduced to 0 Hit Points then she would've been unconscious and dying.
I didn't skip it. I replied to it, because that's not independent of character class. Selecting a class is part and parcel of character creation. Classes, for instance, are where you derive hit points from. So your idea is, once again, houseruled. Which is fine, but that doesn't make it DDN, and we were talking about how well DDN models ASOIAF. If we're talking about houserules then again, my point still stands, because if you have to houserule it then DDN does not model ASOIAF well. And D&D can't be a class-based game without a class. What sort of sense does that make? You're thinking level based.



I don't agree. But I won't fight more since I think I explained my PoV clearly enough.
Nope, she still had hit points. She was just hiding because she's a low hit point NPC who can get killed in the next attack. Besides, there is no Second Wind in 3E. And if it were 4E, if she were reduced to 0 Hit Points then she would've been unconscious and dying.



in 3.X you only went oncouncous when reduced below 0 Hp.
when you where exactly at 0 Hp you where staggerd. 

Indeed there was no 2nd wind in 3rd edition, making it harder to express heroic situations like these often seen in TV series somthing that was corrected with 4th edition.  

Personaly though I think the staggerd/disabled conditions should be even more used then it was upto this point.  

Well, half the characters in the books, although central for the story, are just nobles, diplomats, commoners and such. They'd probably be just 0-level humans by 2e standards. Don't know how that would go for Next.

The warrior characters would all basically be Fighters, although their fighting styles differ greatly (in 3e terms they'd be fighters with very different feat setups).

The Night's Watch men are of course Rangers, although a non-casting variant would be needed.
 



Or use 4e Warlords Fighters and Rangers..  zero modifications needed. 
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

She was still conscious, so therefore she clearly still had hit points, so no need for a Healing Surge.



Huh... if you dont use a second wind while still concious you need somebody elses help (using a heal check to use it)
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

   
wel cat has a sudden resurgence of power, one moment she is crawling with a arrow in her back, the next the grabs waldor frays daugter and stands with no problem that was a use of 2nd wind there



Yeh thas a second wind.
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

Or use 4e Warlords Fighters and Rangers..  zero modifications needed.

Right, because characters recover from debilitating injuries due to a motivational speech all the time, while individual Fighters are capable of killing eight men within a six-second span single-handedly.

Huh... if you dont use a second wind while still concious you need somebody elses help (using a heal check to use it)

Who says she needed a Healing Surge? She still had hit points left as she clearly didn't go down from that first attack.

Yeh thas a second wind.

Nope, that's a character who's only got a few hit points left, no armor, no weapons, and using a table for Full Cover to keep from getting shot again with a crossbow while she tries to figure out what to do.
 
Indeed there was no 2nd wind in 3rd edition, making it harder to express heroic situations like these often seen in TV series somthing that was corrected with 4th edition.   



Dramatic turn arounds or heroic resurgences, very necessary to me. 
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

while individual Fighters are capable of killing eight men within a six-second span single-handedly.


Not sure what you are talking about... delusions?


Huh... if you dont use a second wind while still concious you need somebody elses help (using a heal check to use it)

Who says she needed a Healing Surge? She still had hit points left as she clearly didn't go down from that first attack.


Your claim she didnt need a second wind because she was concious was wrong... 
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

while individual Fighters are capable of killing eight men within a six-second span single-handedly.


Not sure what you are talking about... delusions?


Huh... if you dont use a second wind while still concious you need somebody elses help (using a heal check to use it)

Who says she needed a Healing Surge? She still had hit points left as she clearly didn't go down from that first attack.


Your claim she didnt need a second wind because she was concious was wrong. 



 In the show one of the fighters used 3.5's great cleave ability on a bunch of level 1 warriors. Or at least how you could depict that ability on screen. Bits of 4th ed on screen are also in there along with 2nd or 3rd ed but overall 4th ed is a poor GoT substitute due to its GoT gritty nature.

 Something like an adaption of SWSE into D&D using NPC classes from 3rd ed, and critical hit tables from 2nd ed combat ad tac tics and 2nd eds  low magic dials for spellcasters makes a bit of sense at least as far as D&D /d20 rules can be stretched short of wrting a custom d20 system (thats doesn't suck).

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 

Not sure what you are talking about... delusions?

If you're going to say that something's a perfect fit, then know what you're talking about, first.

Player's Handbook, page 79, Sweeping Blow. Available to 3rd-Level Fighters. So by 3rd level the Fighter has already broken the setting.

Your claim she didnt need a second wind because she was concious was wrong... 

How was it wrong? She was conscious, therefore she still had hit points. If she still had hit points then you don't need a Second Wind mechanic to explain anything that happened in that situation. We're talking about the latest episode of Game of Thrones, and nowhere in that episode did anyone run up to an unconscious character with a healing kit.
Right, because characters recover from debilitating injuries due to a motivational speech all the time 


D&D doesnt have debilitating injuries.... so what ever do you mean... you mean you added a house rule so hit points meant loosing limbs and such?
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

 How was it wrong? She was conscious, therefore she still had hit points.  


And being concious is a requirement for invoking ones own second wind... you are wrong.
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

Right, because characters recover from debilitating injuries due to a motivational speech all the time 


D&D doesnt have debilitating injuries.... so what ever do you mean... you mean you added a house rule so hit points meant loosing limbs and such?



2nd ed did;) 2nd ed also had the weeks long martial healing thing if you lacked magic (Ned).

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 

And being concious is a requirement for invoking ones own second wind... you are wrong.

Wow, I get the feeling you have some serious reading comprehension problems.

I NEVER CLAIMED SHE USED A SECOND WIND.
Right, because characters recover from debilitating injuries due to a motivational speech all the time 

D&D doesnt have debilitating injuries.... so what ever do you mean... you mean you added a house rule so hit points meant loosing limbs and such

4th Edition Player's Handbook, pg. 293.

DYING: When your current hit points drop to 0 or lower, you fall unconscious and are dying.
4th Edition Player's Handbook, pg. 295.

DEATH SAVING THROW:
When you are dying, you need to make a saving throw at the end of your turn each round. The result of your saving throw determines how close you are to death.
Lower Than 10: You slip one step closer to death. If you get this result three times before you take a rest, you die.
Sooo... 4th Edition D&D... I guess you've never heard of it?
Not sure what you are talking about... delusions?

If you're going to say that something's a perfect fit, then know what you're talking about, first. 



Right... Ive made many more characters without sweeping blow than with... incredibly difficult not to choose a particular power if you feel it doesnt fit (not)

Warlords make awesome Nobles and Diplomats and also Rangers by default have no magic in 4e.

No clerics required to have the normal D*D intensity of game either.


 
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

Right... Ive made many more characters without sweeping blow than with... incredibly difficult not to choose a particular power if you feel it doesnt fit (not)

Ah, so the class is a perfect fit so long as you purposefully disregard a good chunk of its powers and abilities. Gotcha.

Warlords make awesome Nobles and Diplomats

How many diplomats have you ever seen running around in full plate with a greatsword? And how many Nobles have you seen yell at a man who was unconscious and bleeding to death only for that man to stop bleeding and regain immediate consciousness without any indication that he was on death's door only a moment ago?

and also Rangers by default have no magic in 4e.

They should. Then it might explain Spray of Arrows (PHB, pg. 108). So which Game of Thrones character can fire nine arrows in a six-second span and kill as many men in that time?

No clerics required to have the normal D*D intensity of game either.

It wouldn't be Game of Thrones, though.

 
 In the show one of the fighters used 3.5's great cleave ability on a bunch of level 1 warriors.  



Thats also the sweep ability that he whines about being utterly unrealistic.
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

I get the impression that you're not familiar with the 4E rules or Game of Thrones. At no point did any character at any point in any episode of that series kill eight men simultaneously because, guess what, it's not realistic. If a single man is surrounded by eight men at once then he's going to die. What he's not going to do is twirl like a top and take out all eight at once. They didn't even do anything that resembles cleave. They killed each guy one at a time.
Right... Ive made many more characters without sweeping blow than with... incredibly difficult not to choose a particular power if you feel it doesnt fit (not)

Ah, so the class is a perfect fit so long as you purposefully disregard a good chunk of its powers and abilities. Gotcha.


Nope you just disregard what isnt needed.
Warlords make awesome Nobles and Diplomats

How many diplomats have you ever seen running around in full plate with a greatsword?

Ones that are front line which isnt far from the norm ..   most of my warlords are in light armor (leather jerkins easily visualized)... works just fine.


And how many Nobles have you seen yell at a man who was unconscious and bleeding to death only for that man to stop bleeding and regain immediate consciousness without any indication that he was on death's door only a moment ago?


That isnt how you describe somebody who staggers to there feat fighting on past injury because they have been motivated ... its flavor text. (and if you failed a save or needed to spend a healing surge you are not mark free in a mechanical sense).


and also Rangers by default have no magic in 4e.

They should. Then it might explain Spray of Arrows (PHB, pg. 108). So which Game of Thrones character can fire nine arrows in a six-second span and kill as many men in that time?


Want to see a real life guy doing it he loads three arrows with one grab and fires them in 1.6 seconds.. 

 

  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

 
 In the show one of the fighters used 3.5's great cleave ability on a bunch of level 1 warriors.  



Thats also the sweep ability that he whines about being utterly unrealistic.



 I have no problem with it. It is probably a little unrealistic since it is a TV show but at least is plausable. As I said you could cobble togather something using various parts of 2nd ed, 3rd and 4th to make a GoT character. The default brutality would be pre 3rd ed even using optional rules from various 2nd ed books for magic levels, critical hits, NPC classes from 3rd, some powers from 4th ed and maybe action points from 4th ed. Healing surges and clerical magical healing are right out a single 2nd wind may be acceptable though. Level 6 would be epic level on this world.

 Fear is the Mind Killer