Initiate of mystra questions

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So outside of actually taking a 3 level dip in cleric, is there any way to obtain the benefits of this feat?
So outside of actually taking a 3 level dip in cleric, is there any way to obtain the benefits of this feat?


Since one of the requirements is actually "Cleric level 3rd", no, you can't.

However,  please tell us the whole story. As in, what are you trying to do and what are you trying that with? If it's finding a way to cast spells in an antimagic field, there are ways around that (although usually they require you to cast the AMF in the first place). If you're trying to buff up and have those buffs work against an AMF-user, there are different ways for that (and some of them are setting-specific!). And so on and so forth.

There's no reason to not tell the full story here - in fact, it frustrates us and works against you if you don't. 

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

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These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style)

[TS] Assassin's Bleed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

Casting in AMFs only requires you to wear a magical fez. And everyone knows fezzes are cool.
Customer Disservice of the House of Trolls Resident Secretly Ron Paul God of Spite and Sloth
I always thought it was the ittybitty cars that made Shriners cool, not the fezzes.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
I'm playing an incantatrix and my DM rules that whenever I encounter an AMF it auto-dispels all of my buffs. So I'm trying to keep my buffs active in an AMF so as to not lose them. 24 buffs is a lot to lose just because of one spell effect.
Buy your DM a dictionary. Also, the tinfoil hat breaks LoE the second it's supressed, so there's that, but it seems your DM is either illiterate or flat-out malicious, so you've got other problems.
Customer Disservice of the House of Trolls Resident Secretly Ron Paul God of Spite and Sloth
Tinfoil hat? LoE?

also: my DM said he knows how AMF works but it's his world and his rules.  
Tinfoil hat?

A shrunk hollow cylinder that, when one goes into an AMF, grows again covers you with a hole no larger than a foot. It then falls, covers you, and blocks LoE.
LoE?

Line of Effect. Blocking it blocks, among other things, emminations like AMF.
also: my DM said he knows how AMF works but it's his world and his rules.  

Then tell him he's being a bit of a douche. Although I'm sure you could rig up a hat that would go off before you hit an AMF, or a contingent spell that teleports you away if you get within a foot of an AMF.
Customer Disservice of the House of Trolls Resident Secretly Ron Paul God of Spite and Sloth
I'll rework my character so he has craft contingency spell seeing as I banned evocation.
I'll rework my character so he has craft contingency spell seeing as I banned evocation.

Or you could try to sneak in a few SCM levels, given that the single most important level in Incantatrix is 3.
Customer Disservice of the House of Trolls Resident Secretly Ron Paul God of Spite and Sloth
I'll rework my character so he has craft contingency spell seeing as I banned evocation.

Or you could try to sneak in a few SCM levels, given that the single most important level in Incantatrix is 3.


Elaborating: SCM is Shadowcraft Mage, which gets an even better version of evocation (and a strong subset of conjuration). Here's the guide.

Also, seconding the douche thing. Antimagic is enough of a hassle without it also undoing all permanent magic effects. 

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

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These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style)

[TS] Assassin's Bleed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

I took 4 incantatrix just to get the bonus metamagic feat. Then a level in Olin Glisir to get another one. I have skill focus (knowledge religion) from Frog God's Fane location so I get into divine oracle for 2 levels because I have no defense against AoEs. How many SCM levels is best? When I get 7th level spells I'll be almost unkillable except by Dispelling, Disjunction, or AMF thanks to limited wish mimicking all the good spells of the Twice Betrayer.
I'm playing an incantatrix and my DM rules that whenever I encounter an AMF it auto-dispels all of my buffs.

Yeah, AMF suppressed buffs, and it's a big counter to spellcasters and all... but when you leave the AMF, they should come back.

Curiously, an Incantatrix could try to Snatch an AMF IIRC, then dismiss it - though aside from being nontrivial, Snatch Spell is a (Su) ability so you can't use it when already in an AMF; it's debatable whether you could even use it on an AMF at all. Though, as a DM, I'd be tempted to allow it, just because it's sort of the Incantatrix's thing. Of course, the Incantatrix already gets enough gravy, so w/e.
Contingent Disjunction on the AMF.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
In your case, you want 3. Also, Twice Betrayer is more than a little douchey unless your DM is on board. Either way, cut the DO and one of the metamagic feat levels.
Customer Disservice of the House of Trolls Resident Secretly Ron Paul God of Spite and Sloth
Nvm, can't take SCM cause I'm a grey elf and I'm certainly not loosing caster levels unless I'm going into Dwoemerkeeper for SLAs and even then I only need to lose 1 to grab a level of cleric. And it's not quite twice betrayer cause I'm not a shadow adept and I don't have initiate of mystra. 
Wait, you're and Elf? And you specialized? Why in the name of the Burning Hate would you even consider doing that?
Customer Disservice of the House of Trolls Resident Secretly Ron Paul God of Spite and Sloth
Nvm, can't take SCM cause I'm a grey elf and I'm certainly not loosing caster levels unless I'm going into Dwoemerkeeper for SLAs and even then I only need to lose 1 to grab a level of cleric. And it's not quite twice betrayer cause I'm not a shadow adept and I don't have initiate of mystra. 


And this is why I asked for the whole story earlier. Letting through just bits and pieces at a time in response to each bit of advice that we give out just frustrates us and bogs you down with advice that won't work. I'm done because of this.

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style)

[TS] Assassin's Bleed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

Cause transmuter is better than the generalist substitution level.
Cause transmuter is better than the generalist substitution level.

No it isn't.
Customer Disservice of the House of Trolls Resident Secretly Ron Paul God of Spite and Sloth
You got me there. Divination domain seems to be what I should have taken. I still need one prohibited school due to incantatrix though which everyone says should definitely be evocation.
You got me there. Divination domain seems to be what I should have taken. I still need one prohibited school due to incantatrix though which everyone says should definitely be evocation.

I dunno. Evocation does have Contingency, and I so you could probably ban, say, necromancy or enchantment, depending on your style, without much pain, but SCM is the best way to go if you can. Maybe try to go off that evil cabal adaption?
Customer Disservice of the House of Trolls Resident Secretly Ron Paul God of Spite and Sloth
Necromancy removes the option for Necrotic Empowerment and Veil of Undeath. Excellent 48 hour buffs. That material component for VoU is intense though. I also need to see how my DM feels about the theory that wizards can learn ANY SPELL IN THE GAME. If he buys it then I need to keep necromancy and Enchantment open for Delay Death, Beastland Ferocity, Death Ward, Favor of Ilmater, Sheltered Vitality, and Greater Heroism. Ill see if my DM goes for that adaptation. 
I've never liked Necrotic Cyst for Wizards. Also, you're Evil? This kind of thing should be specified in the OP.

Also, don't try the "Oh, hey, they can learn everything. Get Lesser Schemas or the like for the important things. If your DM is already being dick, provoking him probably isn't the best idea. 
Customer Disservice of the House of Trolls Resident Secretly Ron Paul God of Spite and Sloth
I'm not evil. But I thought that Alignment restrictions were only for clerics. I thought wizards can cast spells with the evil descriptor even if they were good characters. I just don't know of any other spell that gives +8 to int let alone 2 other scores. It also does not state that you don't get bonus spells or other bonuses thus, I gain a few bonus spells and 4 more activations of metamagic effect per day. Agreed on the second part though. Where are lesser schemas located?
I'm not evil. But I thought that Alignment restrictions were only for clerics. I thought wizards can cast spells with the evil descriptor even if they were good characters.

They can, but casting an Evil spell is a fundamentally Evil act. Thus, you're gonna be falling down the slippery slope very quickly if you use it.
Agreed on the second part though. Where are lesser schemas located?

Magic of Eberron.
Customer Disservice of the House of Trolls Resident Secretly Ron Paul God of Spite and Sloth
I'm not evil. But I thought that Alignment restrictions were only for clerics. I thought wizards can cast spells with the evil descriptor even if they were good characters


Correct - but they're still subject to other restrictions, such as Necrotic Empowerment requiring the Mother Cyst feat (look at its focus), as the Mother Cyst feat clearly says "A creature without this feat cannot cast necrotic cyst spells." Even if you have a way of skipping a feat-based focus, the spell clearly indicates it's a necrotic cyst spell (it draws upon your mother cyst, and says that while it lasts, you cannot cast any other necrotic cyst spells, all of which points to it being a cyst spell itself. Why they didn't do this with a descriptor, I don't know...)
I just don't know of any other spell that gives +8 to int let alone 2 other scores.


It's an Enhancement bonus; by the time you're casting 8th level spells you can easily have +6 enhancement on your Intelligence continuously.
It also does not state that you don't get bonus spells or other bonuses thus, I gain a few bonus spells and 4 more activations of metamagic effect per day.


It also doesn't say that humans can't bite people in half with their eyes.

Since you regain spell slots when you rest, an increase to your intelligence between rest cycles doesn't give you extra spell slots, you know?
Agreed on the second part though. Where are lesser schemas located?


Google.

Though I'll save you the few seconds: Magic of Eberron.



I'm being snippy because you're still not telling us the whole story, by the way. New details like alignment and current tactics - and even your effective level - are coming up with each new post instead of where they belong, i.e. in the thread starter.

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

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These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style)

[TS] Assassin's Bleed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

Allright, Here's the full character bio and strategy.

Grey Elf (Old Age bracket)
Wizard 3
Master Specialist 2
Incantatrix 4
Olin Glisir 1

Stats. 28 point buy
Str 3
Dex 13
Con 7
Int 24
Wis 10
Cha 10

I have two flaws. Pathetic, Vulnerable

Feats list: I have a lot Due to Embrace the Dark Chaos and Spurn the Dark Chaos. Paid a wizard to cast them on me.

Extend Spell
Iron Will (Otyugh Hole)
Otherworldly
Persistent Spell
Ocular Spell
Easy Metamagic (Ocular Spell)
Magical Aptitude
Skill Focus (Spellcraft) (Master Specialist)
Spell Focus (Transmutation)
Spell Focus (Illusion)
Spell Mastery Polymorph
Uncanny Forethought
Skill Focus (Knowledge Religion) (Frog God's Fane)
Item Familiar
Mother Cyst (no requirement to be evil.) (+8 is greater than +6 and the DM is also regulating magic items.) (If the effect lasts for 48 hours and is renewed before that period is up then I would certainly get those bonus spells.)
Last one yet to be determined.

My DM has decided to adhere to the CustServ ruling that touch spell are considered a fixed range for the purposes of Persistant Spell.

Skill are yet to be properly allocated. Can adjust to meet any prerequisites  necessary. 

The goal was to have many persistent and extended (DM ruled that it works) to have 48 hour buffs so I can have double the norm. AKA 24 due to persistant Fox's Cunning at this point. He is a very frail old man who remains constantly polymorphed as a Monadic Deva with lots of other buff and immunities. The goal was to be untouchable and still have a few slots left to play God and/or Batman somewhat effectively. Any and all ways to improve upon this will help.

Active buff list:
Arcane Sight
Blink, Greater
Contingent Energy Resistance
Fox's Cunning
Globe of Invulnerability, Lesser
Heart of Air
Heart of Earth
Heart of Fire
Heart of Water
Improved Mage Armor (3.0)
Mirror Image, Greater
Polymorph
Rary's Telepathic Bond
Ray Deflection
See Invisibility
Shield
Dragonskin (Red)
Superior Resistance
Tongues 

Any good buffs I'm missing will also help.

My DM also ruled that the divine oracle's Prescient Sense and evasion works with the Starmantle spell so that will be one of the next spells gained. Along with Eyes of the Oracle and True Seeing.

Sorry for sending you down a wild goose chase for so long and for omitting many useful details and house rules. Hope this helps clear some things up.

DM also ruled that spells that just modify yourself and don't harm others will have any evil descriptor removed from them. 

Still need help with those pesky busted AMFs. 
Why not Persist Shapechange instead of Polymorph? Cool
I would if I was 17th level. But instead I am 10th. 5th level spells is as good as it gets at this point.
Is the build just not worth optimizing past where I am?
Oh, so you are!

Well, getting Disjoined at this level would be pretty unfortunate. AMF is a fear I guess but just don't walk into it. I'd think more about not getting dispelled, if I were you, because if you haven't bumped your CL you stand to get several buffs stripped (if not all) pretty easily (a higher-level NPC could easily be hitting you with GDM at a higher CL without any effort). 
Right yes that could be a large issue. How do I go about fixing that.