double strike and trample while you block with 2 creatures

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Hello again and thanks again in advance for the answer.

I think I was correct but he said he read that trample   can go over the first creature and do damage to me..

I have two creatures out in play he attacks with one creature double strike and trample.
Lets say the creatrure is a 10-9..because of enchantments.
I block with boros reckoner andhigh priest of penance..

He said he can assign 10 damage to boros and zero damage to HPOP since he has trample is the correct.
I thought you have to do leathel damage to what ever is blocking before you can do damage to a player.

2: then my Boros would only can do 3 damage correct  since the other went over him with trample.

Thanks again
Trample allows you to assign extra damage to the opponent, but it doesn't force you to.

If your opponent attacks with a 10/9 and you block with Boros Reckoner and High Priest of Penance, he is free to assign all 10 damage to the reckoner in the first strike step. If he does, you're going to deal 10 damage to something with reckoner's ability.
he can assign 10 to the Boros Reckoner and none to High Priest of Penance, that is correct
that is true even without Trample

your Boros Reckoner will then deal 10 damage to whatever you want.

if his creature is still around in the normal strike damage step he will have to assign at least 1 damage to High Priest of Penance and can have the rest Trample over to you.


all in all, not an optimal play by your opponent, but legal.
proud member of the 2011 community team
In the Dark Ages, trample worked like that - you could assign all damage to the least-tough blocker and deal X-N in trample damage to the defending player, where X is the power of the attacker and N is the lowest toughness among blockers.


Not the case anymore, and hasn't been for a looooong time.  Now, you have to assign lethal damage to all blockers before you can assign any damage to the defending player.
Lets say I am at 7 life and he is at 10 life.. I only block with boros what is the outcome?

1: he has frist strike and trample

2: he has just trample
3: doubkle strike

thanks
in all cases you are most likely dead
if he wants to he can spare you for some reason

he has to assign 3-10 damage to the Boros Reckoner and can assign 0-7 damage to you.
proud member of the 2011 community team
1. He will probably assign 3 to the Reckoner and 7 to you, and you lose before your reckoner's ability can go on the stack.

2. Same as one really, just that your reckoner could potentially deal 3 damage if you give it first strike.

3.  With no trample, all of the first strike damage will get assigned/dealt to your reckoner, this will trigger it's ability allowing you to assign the damage to your opponent and win the game.
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Lets say he has an enchantment attached to his creature above with first strike and trample and I block with the HPOP can I destroy the enchatment to take away the trample?

the enchantment is what is giving him the trample
he has a 10/9 guy 

1:  double strike trample

2: trample first strike only

Thanks
Lets say he has an enchantment attached to his creature above with first strike and trample and I block with the HPOP can I destroy the enchatment to take away the trample?

the enchantment is what is giving him the trample
he has a 10/9 guy 

1:  double strike trample

2: trample first strike only

Thanks

You can destroy the enchantment by using HPOP's ability, but that will be just a little too late to avoid trample damage to you.

Tax evasion is nothing but legitimate self-defense against the theft that is tax collection.

Lets say he has an enchantment attached to his creature above with first strike and trample and I block with the HPOP can I destroy the enchatment to take away the trample?

the enchantment is what is giving him the trample
he has a 10/9 guy 

1:  double strike trample

2: trample first strike only

Thanks

You can destroy the enchantment by using HPOP's ability, but that will be just a little too late to avoid trample damage to you.

on #1 would I be able to destroy the enchantment after the first hit away for double strike in time with HPOP to prevent the next hit of damage?
Unless it's Hexproof or some other condition that you haven't mentioned yet is at play, you may find that creature itself is a better thing to destroy than the trample enchantment.

The HPOP's triggered remove ability will come too late to save you from the same round of trample damage that killed your HPOP (be that first strike or the first-wave-of-double-strike).  Your opponent likely assigned 1 to HPOP and 9 to you, then the HPOP trigger went on the stack, and when it resolved allowed you to destroy a nonland permanent (for which you chose the target when it went on the stack).  

In the double strike case, either removing the trample enchantment or the creature itself will be enough to stop the second round of damage from hitting you.
You can destroy the enchantment by using HPOP's ability, but that will be just a little too late to avoid trample damage to you.

for the creature with double strike and trample, removing the enchantment giving trample in the first damage step would stop him from being trampled into in the second step

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sorry yes the creature does have hex proof
You seem to misunderstand Trample. (Or your friend does)

If the attacker is 10/10 trample, and attacks; and you block with a 3/3 and a 1/1.

The attacker puts the defenders in 'order' that he is going to damage them. (He chooses 3/3 then 1/1)

Now once damage is being assigned, he must assign between 3 and 10 damage to the 3/3.
No matter how much damage he chooses, *NONE* of that damage will hit the defending player (you.)

If there is any damage left, he must assign at least 1 pt to the 1/1; and could assign all the remaining damage to the 1/1.
No matter how much damage he chooses, *NONE* of that damage will hit the defending player (you.)

After he has dealt at least 3 to the 3/3 and at least 1 to the 1/1; then he can assign the rest of the damage to the defending player, (you)

So, he could put 3, 1, 6 damage; and you would lose both creatures and take 6 damage (and Boros would deal 3 damage.)
Or, he could put 6, 4, 0 damage, and you would lose both creatures and take 0 damage (and Boros would deal 6 damage.)
Or, he could put 10, 0, 0 damage, you would lose the first creature, and take 0 damage (and boros would deal 10 damage)
etc.



If one of the attacking/defending creatures has first strike or double strike; then there are two damage assignments and damage dealing. Between them, the results of the damage may trigger some actions.

So, his 10/10 double strike attacks, you block with those same 2 creatures and give Boros First Strike
he deals 3, 1, 6 damage.
Boros deals 3 damage.

Now the Boros ability triggers, and you can deal 3 damage to any creature or player
Also the HPoP ability triggers, and you can destroy a nonland permanent.

Then the second damage phase (terminology?) happens:

If HPoP destroyed some other card, then the 10/10 has no more blockers, so deals 10 to you directly.

Now, if you choose to use the HPoP abilty to destroy the enchantment on the 10/10, it gets a bit weird.
His 10/10 was blocked, so it is still blocked. Basically, once blocked; it is considered a 'blocked attacking creature' for the rest of combat, regardless of what else happens to the blocking creatures.
Thus if you destroyed the enchantment, his 10/10 would not do any damage to you during the second damage phase.


man this is crazy..lol

Lets see if this works or not: stupid way to do something but think I might have it figure out.

Lets say the main question double strike 10/9 trampler.

I block both boros and hpop...

can he do something like this:

boros does not do 1st strike..

can he assign 10 to hpop and zero to boros... kills hpop and no damage to me then hpop kicks in and destroys something if I want..   boros does 3 damage to his attacking creature since all 10 went to hpop?

if available still his double strike kicks in and both boros and hit each other... (now if I want I can kick the boros for first strike if I want)  so in theory I would take 7 damage and then I would deal another 3 to his creature from boros abilty which would make it 9 so it would also die...


By doing all damage to the HPOP and zero to the boros after hpop dies can he then play.....



$%$^#&*@(

when the abilty of hpop being damged or destroyed can the active player then play an instant  klike tragic slip to kill my boros reckoner and make his double strike trample go un blocked the second time?
can the active player then play an instant like tragic slip to kill my boros reckoner and make his double strike trample go un blocked the second time?

1) Any player can play insntants during every step of combat, not just the active player.
2) Killing the reckoner doesn't "unblock" the trampler. It just allows it to deal all of its damage to defending player since the total damage needed to assign lethal to all blockers is 0.

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Lets say the main question double strike 10/9 trampler.

I block both boros and hpop...

can he do something like this:

boros does not do 1st strike..

can he assign 10 to hpop and zero to boros... kills hpop and no damage to me then hpop kicks in and destroys something if I want..   boros does 3 damage to his attacking creature since all 10 went to hpop?



That's all correct.

if available still his double strike kicks in and both boros and hit each other...



Both Boros?  You're really confusing things there.  The unnamed 10/9 DS and the Boros Reckoner can hit each other, yes.  The unnamed, presumably still being trample, will likely assign 3 to the reckoner and 7 to you.



(now if I want I can kick the boros for first strike if I want)



It won't do anything.  First strike damage already went by, above.  Now we're about to resolve damage from creatures that didn't deal damage in the first strike pass.


so in theory I would take 7 damage and then I would deal another 3 to his creature from boros abilty which would make it 9 so it would also die...



You're right about the amount of damage, but why is 9 damage causing a 10/10 to die?  Oh, 10/9, nevermind.

I thought the big DS trampler was hexproof?  If it's hexproof the BR can't target it with its triggered ability.   If it wasn't hexproof the HPOP should have killed it when it had the chance.
Your correct it was hex proof It was like a 1/1 hex proof creature with lots of enchantments....  I just starting thinking to fast which clearly I should not...lol

so yes his creature would still live and my would die and trample would go over....


Thanks everyone you can close this thread...
thanks 
You're right about the amount of damage, but why is 9 damage causing a 10/10 to die?  Oh, 10/9, nevermind.

Even forgetting hexproof...nine damage?

3 from the Boros reckoner combat damage and 3 from it's ability = 6?

Am I missing something?

Cheers  
You are missing that rrakness wrote things a bit confusingly, and thatmarkguy agreed to things that were not right.


Lets say the main question double strike 10/9 trampler.

I block both boros and hpop...


I assume this means that you use both Boros and HPoP to block the 10/9 trample creature.



boros does not do 1st strike..


Then he does not get to to damage during the 'first strike damage step' (Could someone give me the actual name for this step?)

can he assign 10 to hpop and zero to boros... kills hpop and no damage to me then hpop kicks in and destroys something if I want..   boros does 3 damage to his attacking creature since all 10 went to hpop?


The attacker picks the order of blocking creatures to recieve damage, he can pick HPoP as first, and Boros as second. He can then assign all 10  damage to the HPoP.
Boros does *not* get to deal damage, since you did not give him first strike. (If you did give him first strike, then he would not get to deal damage in the next step. He can only deal combat damage once, either in the "first-strike" damage step, or the "regular" one; not both.)
The HPoP ability will trigger when damage is dealt.

Between the damage phases, the HPoP ability goes on the stack, and both players also get priority to use abilities and instants. At his point you will get a chance to destroy a target nonland permanent.
At this point, he could cast Tragic Slip on Boros and kill it.

if available still his double strike kicks in and both boros and hit each other...


Yes they both assign and deal damage, because Boros did not deal damage during the last damage step.

 
(now if I want I can kick the boros for first strike if I want)


No.  Well, you can spend the mana and activat the ability, but it will have no effect. The 'first strike' damage step has already passed, so it is too late to deal first strike damage. (If you do activate the ability, you still deal damage during this damage step, since you didn't deal it in the first step.)

 
so in theory I would take 7 damage and then I would deal another 3 to his creature from boros abilty which would make it 9 so it would also die...

This assumes the creature still has Trample.  He could assign anything from 3-10 damage to Boros, but most likely it would be 3, so you would take 7. Boros could then use his triggered ability to deal 3 damage to that creature; for a total of 6 damage, not 9.


when the abilty of hpop being damged or destroyed can the active player then play an instant  klike tragic slip to kill my boros reckoner and make his double strike trample go un blocked the second time?


Yes, but if you removed the Trample ability, or the Double Strike abiity, his creature would do no damage.

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