Ignore resistance or stack damage?

22 posts / 0 new
Last post
Hi everyone, long time lurker, first time poster.

Based off a character concept I've been kicking around, I'm making a Paladin(Blackguard)|Assassin that focuses on charging. Basically, Assassin is to always have CA (Cruel Shroud) and some of the utility powers and feat support; its mainly a Charisma-based Blackguard who utilizes the CA to do maximum Dark Menace and Vice damage every strike.  Hybrid also allows me to pick the Charisma at-will that counts as a basic instead of being stuck with the Strength options. A feat would let me change the daily Assassin power I'm stuck with to a no-roll-required Executioner poison.

My question revolves around damage types.  I can either focus on the radiant side (the at-will and most of the Charisma powers I can pick up have it built in) and stack additional damage bonuses (including a Vanguard weapon), or use some Assassin feats and a Spiderkissed Weapon to ignore resistances, immunities, and insubstantial but with minimal damage bonuses.

If it helps, the people I'm going to play with don't know each other and are making their builds separately, so no radiant mafia. I also don't know the DM or have played with him before, so I couldn't tell you his style.  I've seen the tables of resistances people have compiled, where radiant is the most vulnerable, fire is the most resisted and etc, but that doesn't help a lot when you don't know too much about the game beforehand. Its more of an "if you had to blindly choose, which would you take and why? scenario."

I've only played 4e a little as leader (a bard), and only up to level 9, so any insight into this striker question would be appreciated. Thanks.
Welcome to the harsh light of non-lurkerdom

Radiant is very likely the strongest damage type in the game, and it's quite easy to impart vulnerability to counter resistance. Poison has a lot of fun/weird tricks, but it's simply not ever going to stack up to radiant. And it's always better to take something that gives you bonuses all the time rather than something super situational like ignore insubstantial unless you specifically know that situation will be coming up a lot in the campaign.
Yeah, its always hard to break through to the light and not lurk.  Thanks for the response.
Why would you do this?

Why would you NOT hybrid Exeuctioner at the very least? 
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
For radiant, go damage. 
For radiant, go damage. 


For damage, go radiant.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Why would you do this?

Why would you NOT hybrid Executioner at the very least? 


They did lol
Thats not how I read it, I read it is they hybrided Ossassin, then burned a feat to swap for an executioner poison.
pixie executioner/blackguard with streak of light would satisfy the permanent CA you want, Virtuous Strike is radiant, a paladin power, and a basic attack so both striker benefits apply and Power of the Sun adds radiant vulnerability
Why would you do this?

Why would you NOT hybrid Executioner at the very least? 


They did lol



No, they did not.

Assassin is to always have CA (Cruel Shroud)

That is not executioner.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
You actually quoted the reason I picked Assassin over Assassin(Executioner): I wanted instant CA on everything from creation.  Unless I'm missing something, hybrid Assassin(Executioner) doesn't get shrouds. Pointing out the feat to replace the daily was only to illustrate what I could do with an excess feat (if I have one: I keep waffling on my build plan) to negate one of the downsides of hybrid'ing into a non-compatible primary stat.  Beyond that, Assassin(Executioner) stuff has bad weapon support for what I'm thinking my character would be like roleplaying wise. 
On the pixie executioner|blackguard idea, that's pretty good actually.  I'd have to completely change my character's backstory, as well as shift everything from 2 handers to 1 handers since they act as small creatures with equipment (and the Attack Finesse requirement), but I'll take a look.

Also looking for more opinions on the actual question. I'm going to assume most will answer the same, but it doesn't hurt to get a broader sampling.
You actually quoted the reason I picked Assassin over Assassin(Executioner): I wanted instant CA on everything from creation.  Unless I'm missing something, hybrid Assassin(Executioner) doesn't get shrouds. Pointing out the feat to replace the daily was only to illustrate what I could do with an excess feat (if I have one: I keep waffling on my build plan) to negate one of the downsides of hybrid'ing into a non-compatible primary stat.  Beyond that, Assassin(Executioner) stuff has bad weapon support for what I'm thinking my character would be like roleplaying wise. 


SOUND THE ALARM, SOUND THE ALARM!

Someone thinks that support (ie. mechanics) has any impact on how they roleplay their character!

Anyway, Executioner has better support than the Assassin, and CA is trivial, it's also not stat dependant so you aren't wasting class powers you can't use.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
There are so many ways to get CA, and going Ossassin mainly for Cruel Shroud is a pretty steep opportunity cost. Something like Cunning Stalker (or as mentioned, Streak of Light) is still going to be pretty reliable at a much lower cost.

I feel like I should regret giving any info besides my actual question. I had something particular in mind for my character, and wanted to optimize within that scope.



SOUND THE ALARM, SOUND THE ALARM!

Someone thinks that support (ie. mechanics) has any impact on how they roleplay their character!


I'm not trying to roleplay a character I optimized; I'm trying to optimize a character I already created for roleplay. My paladin who went through certain life events I already wrote out has an easier time explaining why its poison instead of radiant damage, than he would why he's a pixie in a half-orc assassin's guild (just an example).


Cunning Stalker makes more sense, even if its not 100% CA (part of my character RP plan). Asking the DM to revise my backstory is always an option since it hasn't started up yet.


But yeah, sorry for not going 100% optimization on this, I was mostly asking about radiant stacking vs. ignoring reductions. I only gave the rest so you'd know access to radiant/poison powers and feats. This lurker has learned to stick to the actual question.

Refluff.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
 No thanks, I like my concept.  But I did get my question answered, thanks for the help.
I would suggest that, if you're married to a character concept, don't ask questions you might not like the answers to

in this forum they're going to tell you the right answer, the optimized answer

other forums would be more useful for the answers you want to hear, talking to your DM about changing the damage type for your divine attack as described in Book of Vile Darkness, etc. but these are not Char OP type solutions, around here people are going to tell you to avoid shrouds, and that there are less awful ways to ensure CA

I would also point out that a charge-based character can get really dull and if you're in this more for the fun than for the optimization you might want to pick something with more action variety
Your concept of an evil paladin using poison and radiant. mmkay, pack this one up as a CharOp success!
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
Never said it was evil. Blackguards can be anything but Lawful Good. Never said poison and radiant, it was either/or.
 

I would suggest that, if you're married to a character concept, don't ask questions you might not like the answers to



Its not that I don't like the answers, its that I'm confused why everyone is answering a question I never asked. I only posted the rest to set up the radiant vs. poison question.

Thanks for the warning on the dullness of charging.  I like the fighting aspects of the game, but RP is usually up there for me. Most of the "optimal" builds seem pretty repetitive, which is something I can live with, but I do appreciate the advice on that.

Its not that I don't like the answers, its that I'm confused why everyone is answering a question I never asked. I only posted the rest to set up the radiant vs. poison question.


The same reason a dentist will suggest braces or a filling for a cavity during a routine checkup, or a mechanic will point out worn brakes after an oil change; it's called professional integrity.

People do come here looking for advice, and even with us repeating things like "vampires are horrible" they put on blinders and only listen to the people who pander to their idea; so they show up to a game with what they think is an optimized character "from the forums" so they choose to 'play up' (LFR term, meaning selecting an Adventure Level higher than the average party level) and either cause a TPK or just suck horribly.

Our assupmtion is simple: People don't come to char-op if they're perfectly fine playing a bad character.

In your case, asking about radiant damage vs poison resist pierce tells us that you want your character to deal more damage, that you even have to ask about about radiant vs poison tells us that you don't understand a lot of the game (poison is horrible, radiant is amazingly powerful), so we're going to assume that you didn't realize other choices you made are irrational with regards to the goal of "make a better character"
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
So much suck, all too often.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
Sign In to post comments