Agility Fighters

How much work would it be to make agility a 100% viable replacement for Strength for fighters?

I would think there should be more finesse weapons (the double-bladed sword comes to mind) although I guess it's not strictly necessary.

And it seems like Disarm and Trip should be usable with Dex instead of Strength.

Presumably these fighters would be wearing medium or light armor and using their dex bonus for AC, so the only option for equalling Plate would be to find a mithral shirt.

What else would need to be tweaked/added/changed?
 
"Therefore, you are the crapper, I'm merely the vessel through which you crap." -- akaddk
With the basic rules it is not only doable, but expected. Strength is almost pointless as an ability score. Dexterity is so much more useful.

Make your Dexterity based katana wielding fighters and go to town. You have great AC, no penalties to movement or ability checks, a great natural stealth score, great initiative so you can act first, tumble and balance which can be useful especially for improvised stunts.

Alsmot no reason to not go high dex low str as any weapon user.
With the basic rules it is not only doable, but expected. Strength is almost pointless as an ability score. Dexterity is so much more useful.

Make your Dexterity based katana wielding fighters and go to town. You have great AC, no penalties to movement or ability checks, a great natural stealth score, great initiative so you can act first, tumble and balance which can be useful especially for improvised stunts.

Alsmot no reason to not go high dex low str as any weapon user.



That all assumes your DM allows katanas.  But maybe dual wield would work well, too.

"Therefore, you are the crapper, I'm merely the vessel through which you crap." -- akaddk
Why wouldn't your DM allow katanas? They're so cool! They can cut through a tank! I saw it on the internet!

Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid

Copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade.

"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall,

"But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all." -Kipling

 

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57019168 wrote:
I am a hero, not a chump.
Hated Katanas for a long time now. d10 damage speed factor 4 yeah right.
The whole idea just sounds so....whimpy

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

The whole idea just sounds so....whimpy



Say that to Zorro's face....

"Therefore, you are the crapper, I'm merely the vessel through which you crap." -- akaddk
The whole idea just sounds so....whimpy



Say that to Zorro's face....



...I'd take a blind, gimped halfling 3:1 against Zorro.

I'm sorry, that guy doesn't strike me so much as fighter as he does 'commoner with some flair'.

EDIT: I should note though that that is just one example.  The agility fighter archetype itself I have -no- problems with.  I rather like it, in fact, as most of my characters rely on manueverability to begin with. 

"Lightning...it flashes bright, then fades away.  It can't protect, it can only destroy."

"Zorro, you are whimpy...The inadequacy of your baffoon like enemies makes you strong."

EDIT:  Look strong

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey


...I'd take a blind, gimped halfling 3:1 against Zorro.

I'm sorry, that guy doesn't strike me so much as fighter as he does 'commoner with some flair'.



That actually sheds some light on the debate about "Martial Powers".  Clearly some of us like the idea of our characters being superhuman, and some of us like the idea of our characters being...well..."commoners with some flair".  A notch above the rest of the rabble, perhaps, but not able to stand toe-to-toe with dragons.

"Therefore, you are the crapper, I'm merely the vessel through which you crap." -- akaddk
I would play a character that can grapple a dragon and give Zorro a wedgie at the same time.

Now that is some brauny flair.

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

I would think there should be more finesse weapons (the double-bladed sword comes to mind) although I guess it's not strictly necessary.


The double bladed sword? Which one haha?

In any case. Most double-edged swords were not finesse requiring  weapons. Single-edged swords were. For the simple reason that a double-edged sword could kill with both ends and the tip, while a single edge required the wielder to be more agile and skilled with his weapon.

I know that a lot of Chinese double-edged swords were weapons that required such fine mastery because they were shorter and lighter than their European counterparts (A longsword vs a Jian) but also because of the cultural differences of said places.

And no. A broadsword isn't a more fitting comparison to the Jian, since Jian is a one-and-a-half hand weapon like the longsword.

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg)

If I remember well, Zoro from One Piece is fighting sangiri - which means with three blades at the same time.

I would love it so much if that was possible in a D&D game - mecanically speaking.

PS: I know WoD had something like that with Oriental Vampires, since I played one wielding a blade with its tail.
I would think there should be more finesse weapons (the double-bladed sword comes to mind) although I guess it's not strictly necessary.


The double bladed sword? Which one haha?

In any case. Most double-edged swords were not finesse requiring  weapons. Single-edged swords were. For the simple reason that a double-edged sword could kill with both ends and the tip, while a single edge required the wielder to be more agile and skilled with his weapon.

I know that a lot of Chinese double-edged swords were weapons that required such fine mastery because they were shorter and lighter than their European counterparts (A longsword vs a Jian) but also because of the cultural differences of said places.

And no. A broadsword isn't a more fitting comparison to the Jian, since Jian is a one-and-a-half hand weapon like the longsword.

I think he was referring to the ahistorical double sword, darth maul style, not a double edged sword.  Two blades is not the same thing as two edges.
What? You mean like this?

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg)

No, like this: double-bladed sword

Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid

Copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade.

"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall,

"But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all." -Kipling

 

Miss d20 Modern? Take a look at Dias Ex Machina Game's UltraModern 4e!

 

57019168 wrote:
I am a hero, not a chump.
I would play a character that can grapple a dragon and give Zorro a wedgie at the same time.

Now that is some brauny flair.

Chuck Norris: the class?

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I would play a character that can grapple a dragon and give Zorro a wedgie at the same time.

Now that is some brauny flair.

Chuck Norris: the class?



Chuck Norris, the race.

Prequesite: When throwing stat scores, you must throw 24d6 at once and every die roll must be a six.

Benefit: You are Chuck Norris.

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg)

Sorry, I inserted the word "bladed".  It's in the latest playtest packet as simply "double sword".

Maybe if more people actually read the packet instead of posting about how bad it is, we wouldn't have had that bit of confusion...?

Just sayin'. 
"Therefore, you are the crapper, I'm merely the vessel through which you crap." -- akaddk
I would play a character that can grapple a dragon and give Zorro a wedgie at the same time.

Now that is some brauny flair.

Chuck Norris: the class?




haha...

5E Dieties and Demigods, pg. 1



"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey


...I'd take a blind, gimped halfling 3:1 against Zorro.

I'm sorry, that guy doesn't strike me so much as fighter as he does 'commoner with some flair'.



That actually sheds some light on the debate about "Martial Powers".  Clearly some of us like the idea of our characters being superhuman, and some of us like the idea of our characters being...well..."commoners with some flair".  A notch above the rest of the rabble, perhaps, but not able to stand toe-to-toe with dragons.




Which is kind of funny since D&D has never been about "commoners with flair", it's always been about those of amazing ability. Back in the AD&D PH EGG wrote characters were expected to have at least one attribute of 15 or higher, prefeably more. And 15 was truly exceptional compared to the "common folk". A 15 DEX was capable of being an exceptional acrobat, 15 STR a professional athlete/olympic weight lifter, etc. Only a few of the truly gifted ever got even one attribute approaching a 15.