Leader Suggestion for This Party

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Party currently consists of:

A Tiefling Pyro/Summoner
A Tiefling Paladin
A Human Brawler Fighter
An Elf Archer Ranger

We were tossing around either a Half-Elf Valorous Bard or some sort of Warlord...ideas?

RIP George! 4-21-11 RIP Abie! 1-2-13
Funny Forum Quotes
[quote author=82733368 post=532127449]
58115148 wrote:
"You notice a large piece of mold clinging to your toothbrush. What do you do?" "I cast Fireball." "I run like hell!
63797881 wrote:
The standard d4 is somewhat (SOMEWHAT) rounded on the top, the older models are even flat. The Lego is shaped in such a way that in an emergency, you can use one as a makeshift surgical knife.
147742801 wrote:
57457938 wrote:
My wife asked me if her pants made her look fat. What do you think I said?
Wife: Do these pants make me look fat? RedSiegfried: I just killed a bunch of orc women and children.
63797881 wrote:
82733368 wrote:
28.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character (Monk or otherwise) does not require my character to be completely shitfaced, no matter what the name (and fun interpretation) implies.
29.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character does not require ME to be completely tanked, no matter how "in-character" I want to be..
You've got two tieflings, maybe you could find a way to squeeze in two devas? Tongue Out
Well the paladin as tieflings should have a decent MBA, the Fighter sure it has it, the ranger has some BA, and I think even the Pyro could take the feat to make basic attacks from CHA, any kind of warlord would improve the damage output of the party. Str/Int genasi Taclord would be my choice.
If the pyro is a Pyromancer Mage, he gets Magic Missile for free.  Probably not the best use of enabling, but it's there.
@ Celerian: You know, the idea was tossed around for a Deva (actually refluffed into a recently fallen one- a Rakshasa) of some sort, but the player ended up being unable to join.

Also, it's a Summoner Wizard (Tome) with Fire stuff for backup. I think he's aiming at grabbing the Demonomicon for his implement at some point. Cool

@ Max: A Genasi Taclord was one of the top 2 choices for the Leader, but it's looking like the Half-Elf Valorous Bard may be in favor more for RP reasons...not sure yet though.
RIP George! 4-21-11 RIP Abie! 1-2-13
Funny Forum Quotes
[quote author=82733368 post=532127449]
58115148 wrote:
"You notice a large piece of mold clinging to your toothbrush. What do you do?" "I cast Fireball." "I run like hell!
63797881 wrote:
The standard d4 is somewhat (SOMEWHAT) rounded on the top, the older models are even flat. The Lego is shaped in such a way that in an emergency, you can use one as a makeshift surgical knife.
147742801 wrote:
57457938 wrote:
My wife asked me if her pants made her look fat. What do you think I said?
Wife: Do these pants make me look fat? RedSiegfried: I just killed a bunch of orc women and children.
63797881 wrote:
82733368 wrote:
28.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character (Monk or otherwise) does not require my character to be completely shitfaced, no matter what the name (and fun interpretation) implies.
29.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character does not require ME to be completely tanked, no matter how "in-character" I want to be..
Here's what the player put together for a general concept of his build:

He plans on being in Melee, but still capable of Ranged attacks as well, hence the mix of powers. Not sure on the feat progression though, I think that's about his main issue right now. Powers and Equipment are easy enough to choose from in the Handbook, but feats, or more importantly, the order in which they are chosen has proven to be a bit difficult.

level 1
Half-Elf, Bard
Build: Valorous Bard
Eldritch Strike: Eldritch Strike Charisma
Bardic Virtue: Virtue of Valor
Signs of Influence: Ritual Beneficiary
Signs of Influence: Demand Audience
Half-Elf Power Selection: Dilettante
Background: Sidhe Lord (+2 to Diplomacy)
Theme: Sidhe Lord

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 16, Dex 14, Int 13, Wis 8, Cha 18.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 14, Dex 14, Int 13, Wis 8, Cha 16.


AC: 16 Fort: 13 Reflex: 13 Will: 15
HP: 28 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 7

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +6, Intimidate +9, Streetwise +9, Bluff +9, Diplomacy +13

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +2, Dungeoneering, Endurance +3, Heal, History +2, Insight +2, Nature, Perception, Religion +2, Stealth +2, Thievery +2, Athletics

FEATS
Bard: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Blade Initiate

POWERS
Bard at-will 1: Staggering Note
Bard at-will 1: Guiding Strike
Dilettante: Eldritch Strike
Bard encounter 1: Shout of Triumph
Bard daily 1: Stirring Shout

ITEMS
Ritual Book, Adventurer's Kit, Disguise Kit, Faerie Puppet, Feywine Raisin (6), Fine Clothing, Flute, Chainmail, Longsword
RITUALS
Comrades' Succor, Glib Limerick
RIP George! 4-21-11 RIP Abie! 1-2-13
Funny Forum Quotes
[quote author=82733368 post=532127449]
58115148 wrote:
"You notice a large piece of mold clinging to your toothbrush. What do you do?" "I cast Fireball." "I run like hell!
63797881 wrote:
The standard d4 is somewhat (SOMEWHAT) rounded on the top, the older models are even flat. The Lego is shaped in such a way that in an emergency, you can use one as a makeshift surgical knife.
147742801 wrote:
57457938 wrote:
My wife asked me if her pants made her look fat. What do you think I said?
Wife: Do these pants make me look fat? RedSiegfried: I just killed a bunch of orc women and children.
63797881 wrote:
82733368 wrote:
28.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character (Monk or otherwise) does not require my character to be completely shitfaced, no matter what the name (and fun interpretation) implies.
29.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character does not require ME to be completely tanked, no matter how "in-character" I want to be..
Isn't Staggering Note pretty much a mandatory pick for any bard that isn't a Skald?
Isn't Staggering Note pretty much a mandatory pick for any bard that isn't a Skald?



I have Staggering Note.
RIP George! 4-21-11 RIP Abie! 1-2-13
Funny Forum Quotes
[quote author=82733368 post=532127449]
58115148 wrote:
"You notice a large piece of mold clinging to your toothbrush. What do you do?" "I cast Fireball." "I run like hell!
63797881 wrote:
The standard d4 is somewhat (SOMEWHAT) rounded on the top, the older models are even flat. The Lego is shaped in such a way that in an emergency, you can use one as a makeshift surgical knife.
147742801 wrote:
57457938 wrote:
My wife asked me if her pants made her look fat. What do you think I said?
Wife: Do these pants make me look fat? RedSiegfried: I just killed a bunch of orc women and children.
63797881 wrote:
82733368 wrote:
28.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character (Monk or otherwise) does not require my character to be completely shitfaced, no matter what the name (and fun interpretation) implies.
29.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character does not require ME to be completely tanked, no matter how "in-character" I want to be..
Isn't Staggering Note pretty much a mandatory pick for any bard that isn't a Skald?



I have Staggering Note.

I know.  Was making an observation, not a suggestion/critique.  Also, posted that minutes before going to take an accounting final.

Ah, we'll in that case, yes- it is.
RIP George! 4-21-11 RIP Abie! 1-2-13
Funny Forum Quotes
[quote author=82733368 post=532127449]
58115148 wrote:
"You notice a large piece of mold clinging to your toothbrush. What do you do?" "I cast Fireball." "I run like hell!
63797881 wrote:
The standard d4 is somewhat (SOMEWHAT) rounded on the top, the older models are even flat. The Lego is shaped in such a way that in an emergency, you can use one as a makeshift surgical knife.
147742801 wrote:
57457938 wrote:
My wife asked me if her pants made her look fat. What do you think I said?
Wife: Do these pants make me look fat? RedSiegfried: I just killed a bunch of orc women and children.
63797881 wrote:
82733368 wrote:
28.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character (Monk or otherwise) does not require my character to be completely shitfaced, no matter what the name (and fun interpretation) implies.
29.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character does not require ME to be completely tanked, no matter how "in-character" I want to be..
Level 30 version

**EDIT** Still a WIP.

level 30
Half-Elf, Bard, War Chanter, Hordemaster
Build: Valorous Bard
Eldritch Strike: Eldritch Strike Charisma
Bardic Virtue: Virtue of Valor
Signs of Influence: Ritual Beneficiary
Signs of Influence: Demand Audience
Signs of Influence: Welcome Guest
Signs of Influence: Travel in Style
Horde Champion: Horde Champion Charisma
Horde Champion: Horde Champion Constitution
Half-Elf Power Selection: Dilettante
Background: Sidhe Lord (+2 to Diplomacy)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 12, Con 20, Dex 16, Int 15, Wis 10, Cha 22.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 14, Dex 14, Int 13, Wis 8, Cha 16.


AC: 43 Fort: 45 Reflex: 42 Will: 47
HP: 197 Surges: 12 Surge Value: 49

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +22, Intimidate +26, Streetwise +26, Bluff +26, Diplomacy +30

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +19, Dungeoneering +16, Endurance +21, Heal +16, History +18, Insight +18, Nature +16, Perception +16, Religion +18, Stealth +19, Thievery +19, Athletics +17

FEATS
Bard: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Blade Initiate
Level 2: Battle Song Expertise
Level 4: Improved Defenses
Level 6: Battle Cadence
Level 8: Improved Majestic Word
Level 10: Bardic Wayfarer
Level 11: Psychic Lock
Level 12: Disheartening Presence
Level 14: Walk Among the Fey
Level 16: Improved Valor
Level 18: Versatile Master
Level 20: Arcane Familiar
Level 21: Quickened Spellcasting
Level 22: Supreme Majesty
Level 24: Superior Initiative
Level 26: Epic Fortitude
Level 28: Epic Reflexes
Level 30: Epic Will

POWERS
Bard at-will 1: Guiding Strike
Bard at-will 1: Staggering Note
Dilettante: Eldritch Strike
Bard encounter 1: Lesser Dimensional Step
Bard daily 1: Stirring Shout
Bard utility 2: Sidhe Bargain
Bard encounter 3: Echoing Weapon
Bard daily 5: Timeless Trek in Mithrendain
Bard utility 6: Revitalizing Incantation
Bard encounter 7: Scorpion's Claw Strike
Bard daily 9: Song of Discord
Bard utility 10: Mantle of Unity
Bard encounter 13: Dimensional Step (replaces Lesser Dimensional Step)
Bard daily 15: Satire of Evasion (replaces Stirring Shout)
Bard utility 16: Song of Sublime Snowfall
Bard encounter 17: Song of Summons (replaces Echoing Weapon)
Bard daily 19: Satire of Prowess (replaces Song of Discord)
Bard utility 22: Note of Aggression
Bard encounter 23: White Wolves (replaces Scorpion's Claw Strike)
Bard daily 25: Frenzied Rhythm (replaces Timeless Trek in Mithrendain)
Bard encounter 27: Greater Dimensional Step (replaces Dimensional Step)
Bard daily 29: Hero's Beacon (replaces Satire of Evasion)

ITEMS
Ritual Book, Adventurer's Kit, Disguise Kit, Faerie Puppet, Feywine Raisin (6), Flute, Githyanki Silver Longsword +6, Iron Armbands of Power (epic tier), Boots of Teleportation (epic tier), Eye of Awareness (epic tier), Belt of Vitality (epic tier), Backlash Tattoo (heroic tier), Siberys Shard of the Mage (epic tier), Brooch of Vitality +6, Sapphire Scabbard (paragon tier), Bronze Griffon (paragon tier), Incisive Dagger Dagger +6, Eladrin Spiritmail +6, Eladrin Ring of Passage (paragon tier), Ring of Retreat (paragon tier), Gloves of Dimensional Repulsion (paragon tier)
RITUALS
Comrades' Succor, Glib Limerick
RIP George! 4-21-11 RIP Abie! 1-2-13
Funny Forum Quotes
[quote author=82733368 post=532127449]
58115148 wrote:
"You notice a large piece of mold clinging to your toothbrush. What do you do?" "I cast Fireball." "I run like hell!
63797881 wrote:
The standard d4 is somewhat (SOMEWHAT) rounded on the top, the older models are even flat. The Lego is shaped in such a way that in an emergency, you can use one as a makeshift surgical knife.
147742801 wrote:
57457938 wrote:
My wife asked me if her pants made her look fat. What do you think I said?
Wife: Do these pants make me look fat? RedSiegfried: I just killed a bunch of orc women and children.
63797881 wrote:
82733368 wrote:
28.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character (Monk or otherwise) does not require my character to be completely shitfaced, no matter what the name (and fun interpretation) implies.
29.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character does not require ME to be completely tanked, no matter how "in-character" I want to be..
Ditch Timeless Trek, Discord at 5 and only replaced in Epic if at all. 9 is typically Saga, but with 2 defenders I'll suggest Wail of Anguish. 15 goes to Strike up the Dance or Whispers.

However, Ranger + Mage really just screams "Killswitch" to me here, Magic Weapon, Ranged Attack granting, and the Spell Commander PP grants arcane at-wills.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
I'll let him know the stuff you suggested- any tips on gear? Also, with Killswitch, isn't it a Hybrid? Not sure how a Hybrid will fly, as he shares a distaste for them. I'll pass on the recommendation though. Thanks!
RIP George! 4-21-11 RIP Abie! 1-2-13
Funny Forum Quotes
[quote author=82733368 post=532127449]
58115148 wrote:
"You notice a large piece of mold clinging to your toothbrush. What do you do?" "I cast Fireball." "I run like hell!
63797881 wrote:
The standard d4 is somewhat (SOMEWHAT) rounded on the top, the older models are even flat. The Lego is shaped in such a way that in an emergency, you can use one as a makeshift surgical knife.
147742801 wrote:
57457938 wrote:
My wife asked me if her pants made her look fat. What do you think I said?
Wife: Do these pants make me look fat? RedSiegfried: I just killed a bunch of orc women and children.
63797881 wrote:
82733368 wrote:
28.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character (Monk or otherwise) does not require my character to be completely shitfaced, no matter what the name (and fun interpretation) implies.
29.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character does not require ME to be completely tanked, no matter how "in-character" I want to be..
Sidhe Lord isn't a particularly good choice until at least 11th. The Sidhe House Guard gets dropped if someone sneezes on it and the level 2 utility really only pays off when one gets the War Chanter bonus. It is at 16th that it really, really comes into play.

Rhyme of the Bloodseeking Blade in combo with a Shielding Dagger is very solid option.
Would the Shielding Dagger be off-hand? As for the theme, I don't think he really cares, if anything I believe he was looking at Dune Trader (which I realize isn't OP, but fits his idea)
RIP George! 4-21-11 RIP Abie! 1-2-13
Funny Forum Quotes
[quote author=82733368 post=532127449]
58115148 wrote:
"You notice a large piece of mold clinging to your toothbrush. What do you do?" "I cast Fireball." "I run like hell!
63797881 wrote:
The standard d4 is somewhat (SOMEWHAT) rounded on the top, the older models are even flat. The Lego is shaped in such a way that in an emergency, you can use one as a makeshift surgical knife.
147742801 wrote:
57457938 wrote:
My wife asked me if her pants made her look fat. What do you think I said?
Wife: Do these pants make me look fat? RedSiegfried: I just killed a bunch of orc women and children.
63797881 wrote:
82733368 wrote:
28.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character (Monk or otherwise) does not require my character to be completely shitfaced, no matter what the name (and fun interpretation) implies.
29.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character does not require ME to be completely tanked, no matter how "in-character" I want to be..
Would the Shielding Dagger be off-hand? As for the theme, I don't think he really cares, if anything I believe he was looking at Dune Trader (which I realize isn't OP, but fits his idea)



Yes, Shielding Dagger is off-hand - or for that matter, can be primary hand(and not Shielding). The difference between 1d8 and 1d4 for a Bard tends to be relatively minimal.

If he's going War Chanter, he really should want a source of extra APs especially after hitting 16th. There's two easy to get options:
Sidhe Lord - steal from your friends after spending an AP, grant them a Standard Action at +Con to hit/damage, then use another AP in the same combat. Everybody wins.

Resourceful Warlord(grant his friends bonus damage or temps when they spend APs) and then Avenging Spirit. This is actually a bit more on the fun side for tables as you'll spend APs relative to how poorly the party is doing - the worse, the more you spend, and therefore the better the party will then do.
He wants to be a Sidhe Lord; I just meant if he were to take something pre-Paragon, it'd be Dune Trader, then retrain to Sidhe Lord, but I think he'll just keep Sidhe Lord from the get go. The Shielding Dagger off-hand is the one that's an enchant, right? Whereas Parrying Dagger is the one that requires a feat- in any case, would the Shielding Dagger nullify the Swordmage Warding granted by his MC?
RIP George! 4-21-11 RIP Abie! 1-2-13
Funny Forum Quotes
[quote author=82733368 post=532127449]
58115148 wrote:
"You notice a large piece of mold clinging to your toothbrush. What do you do?" "I cast Fireball." "I run like hell!
63797881 wrote:
The standard d4 is somewhat (SOMEWHAT) rounded on the top, the older models are even flat. The Lego is shaped in such a way that in an emergency, you can use one as a makeshift surgical knife.
147742801 wrote:
57457938 wrote:
My wife asked me if her pants made her look fat. What do you think I said?
Wife: Do these pants make me look fat? RedSiegfried: I just killed a bunch of orc women and children.
63797881 wrote:
82733368 wrote:
28.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character (Monk or otherwise) does not require my character to be completely shitfaced, no matter what the name (and fun interpretation) implies.
29.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character does not require ME to be completely tanked, no matter how "in-character" I want to be..
He wants to be a Sidhe Lord; I just meant if he were to take something pre-Paragon, it'd be Dune Trader, then retrain to Sidhe Lord, but I think he'll just keep Sidhe Lord from the get go. The Shielding Dagger off-hand is the one that's an enchant, right? Whereas Parrying Dagger is the one that requires a feat- in any case, would the Shielding Dagger nullify the Swordmage Warding granted by his MC?



Yes, Shielding Dagger is an enchant. Most encounters, you're not going to have the Swordmage Warding up and even then, it is a +2 vs a +3.
Shielding would be consistent though, vs. SMW only being applied when it was feasible- seems like a fair trade to me. Any other good specific gear choices I should let him know about? Or should I just have him grab all the gold/sky blue/blue gear from the Handbook? As far as feats go though, he's really unsure of which route to go- he's new to 4e but use to play back in the day quite religiously so he wants to Op as much as possible, but around his concept which may not be the 'norm' CharOp standards.
RIP George! 4-21-11 RIP Abie! 1-2-13
Funny Forum Quotes
[quote author=82733368 post=532127449]
58115148 wrote:
"You notice a large piece of mold clinging to your toothbrush. What do you do?" "I cast Fireball." "I run like hell!
63797881 wrote:
The standard d4 is somewhat (SOMEWHAT) rounded on the top, the older models are even flat. The Lego is shaped in such a way that in an emergency, you can use one as a makeshift surgical knife.
147742801 wrote:
57457938 wrote:
My wife asked me if her pants made her look fat. What do you think I said?
Wife: Do these pants make me look fat? RedSiegfried: I just killed a bunch of orc women and children.
63797881 wrote:
82733368 wrote:
28.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character (Monk or otherwise) does not require my character to be completely shitfaced, no matter what the name (and fun interpretation) implies.
29.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character does not require ME to be completely tanked, no matter how "in-character" I want to be..
So, it was debated, and while Killswitch is clearly the best choice, he'd like to stay as a Bard/War Chanter, Hordemaster for RP and flavor's sake. That being said, what's the best feat progression for such a build? We looked into gear, so that's taken care of.
RIP George! 4-21-11 RIP Abie! 1-2-13
Funny Forum Quotes
[quote author=82733368 post=532127449]
58115148 wrote:
"You notice a large piece of mold clinging to your toothbrush. What do you do?" "I cast Fireball." "I run like hell!
63797881 wrote:
The standard d4 is somewhat (SOMEWHAT) rounded on the top, the older models are even flat. The Lego is shaped in such a way that in an emergency, you can use one as a makeshift surgical knife.
147742801 wrote:
57457938 wrote:
My wife asked me if her pants made her look fat. What do you think I said?
Wife: Do these pants make me look fat? RedSiegfried: I just killed a bunch of orc women and children.
63797881 wrote:
82733368 wrote:
28.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character (Monk or otherwise) does not require my character to be completely shitfaced, no matter what the name (and fun interpretation) implies.
29.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character does not require ME to be completely tanked, no matter how "in-character" I want to be..
Sidhe Lord Warchanter with a Battlefield Archer could be amusing....
Sidhe Lord Warchanter with a Battlefield Archer could be amusing....



You mean from the AP standpoint?
RIP George! 4-21-11 RIP Abie! 1-2-13
Funny Forum Quotes
[quote author=82733368 post=532127449]
58115148 wrote:
"You notice a large piece of mold clinging to your toothbrush. What do you do?" "I cast Fireball." "I run like hell!
63797881 wrote:
The standard d4 is somewhat (SOMEWHAT) rounded on the top, the older models are even flat. The Lego is shaped in such a way that in an emergency, you can use one as a makeshift surgical knife.
147742801 wrote:
57457938 wrote:
My wife asked me if her pants made her look fat. What do you think I said?
Wife: Do these pants make me look fat? RedSiegfried: I just killed a bunch of orc women and children.
63797881 wrote:
82733368 wrote:
28.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character (Monk or otherwise) does not require my character to be completely shitfaced, no matter what the name (and fun interpretation) implies.
29.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character does not require ME to be completely tanked, no matter how "in-character" I want to be..
Sidhe Lord Warchanter with a Battlefield Archer could be amusing....



You mean from the AP standpoint?



Ye, that's what those 3 have in common ^^. It's +8 hit/damage for 4 rounds on Team Player and has nice synergy with Archer's Glory.
For Feats there is a lot of flexibility. I might enjoy something like:

1. Battle Song Expertise
2. Valenar Weapon Training
4. Resourceful Leader
6. Bard of All Trades
8. Superior Will
10. Heavy Armor Agility
11. Majestic Rescue
12. Superior Fortitude
14. Avenging Spirit
16. Skill Power (Insightful Riposte)
18. Improved Valor
20. Improved Initiative (retrain to Superior at 21)
21. Quickened Spellcasting
22. Supreme Majesty
24. Longarm Virtue
26. Superior Reflexes
28. Bravura Leader
30. Perfect Recovery
Updated the lvl 30 build post with everything we came up with...went with the Bard Taxi route, not sure if we sacrificed too much melee stuff by doing so though?

Does anyone know the effective Teleport range with all the enhancers and stuff? I have a feeling we miscalculated for the PC & Ally's Teleport mods when we finished so I'd like to get accurate #'s for them.

The Arcane Familiar is a Dimensional Pet by the way; since I don't think it lists it.
RIP George! 4-21-11 RIP Abie! 1-2-13
Funny Forum Quotes
[quote author=82733368 post=532127449]
58115148 wrote:
"You notice a large piece of mold clinging to your toothbrush. What do you do?" "I cast Fireball." "I run like hell!
63797881 wrote:
The standard d4 is somewhat (SOMEWHAT) rounded on the top, the older models are even flat. The Lego is shaped in such a way that in an emergency, you can use one as a makeshift surgical knife.
147742801 wrote:
57457938 wrote:
My wife asked me if her pants made her look fat. What do you think I said?
Wife: Do these pants make me look fat? RedSiegfried: I just killed a bunch of orc women and children.
63797881 wrote:
82733368 wrote:
28.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character (Monk or otherwise) does not require my character to be completely shitfaced, no matter what the name (and fun interpretation) implies.
29.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character does not require ME to be completely tanked, no matter how "in-character" I want to be..
And this folks, is how to properly ask CharOp to build a character for you without getting yelled at because you don't want to learn optimization yourself
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Lol thanks Z; I can't say we didn't try...went over em again but still seems like the #'s are off

And in going the Taxi route- did we sacrifice too much combat capabilities?
RIP George! 4-21-11 RIP Abie! 1-2-13
Funny Forum Quotes
[quote author=82733368 post=532127449]
58115148 wrote:
"You notice a large piece of mold clinging to your toothbrush. What do you do?" "I cast Fireball." "I run like hell!
63797881 wrote:
The standard d4 is somewhat (SOMEWHAT) rounded on the top, the older models are even flat. The Lego is shaped in such a way that in an emergency, you can use one as a makeshift surgical knife.
147742801 wrote:
57457938 wrote:
My wife asked me if her pants made her look fat. What do you think I said?
Wife: Do these pants make me look fat? RedSiegfried: I just killed a bunch of orc women and children.
63797881 wrote:
82733368 wrote:
28.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character (Monk or otherwise) does not require my character to be completely shitfaced, no matter what the name (and fun interpretation) implies.
29.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character does not require ME to be completely tanked, no matter how "in-character" I want to be..
And in going the Taxi route- did we sacrifice too much combat capabilities?

One complaint I'd have is that I would not want to play a Bard without Superior Will by level 10.
Lol thanks Z; I can't say we didn't try...went over em again but still seems like the #'s are off And in going the Taxi route- did we sacrifice too much combat capabilities?



Quite honestly - if you've got a Sidhe Lord War Chanter with a relatively maxxed out Cha/Con score and the other PCs know to donate action points, it shouldn't ever be a problem.

Your 30th level stats are off - you should have +4 to Con/Cha.
I'll mention to him about Superior Will but its up to him. As for the stats, something may have de-selected in the builder, I'll look into it. Does anybody know the #'s for personal and ally Teleports from the build? I'm not at my laptop right now so I can't go through and look.
RIP George! 4-21-11 RIP Abie! 1-2-13
Funny Forum Quotes
[quote author=82733368 post=532127449]
58115148 wrote:
"You notice a large piece of mold clinging to your toothbrush. What do you do?" "I cast Fireball." "I run like hell!
63797881 wrote:
The standard d4 is somewhat (SOMEWHAT) rounded on the top, the older models are even flat. The Lego is shaped in such a way that in an emergency, you can use one as a makeshift surgical knife.
147742801 wrote:
57457938 wrote:
My wife asked me if her pants made her look fat. What do you think I said?
Wife: Do these pants make me look fat? RedSiegfried: I just killed a bunch of orc women and children.
63797881 wrote:
82733368 wrote:
28.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character (Monk or otherwise) does not require my character to be completely shitfaced, no matter what the name (and fun interpretation) implies.
29.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character does not require ME to be completely tanked, no matter how "in-character" I want to be..
It looks like the mods are roughly +12 to teleport distances for the Bard, and +14 for allies; is that about right? Would that mean the Bard's 'speed' becomes Teleport 18 per round?? Also, the +Teleport boosters would also apply to the Incisive Dagger's built in Teleport, making it a 22 square Teleport, right? Anything else that was missed? The powers that were earlier recommended as changes were kept for flavor reason, but if they prove to be troublesome, he'll retrain.

**EDIT**

Here's the lvl 30 build, I think I fixed the issues.

Show
level 30
Half-Elf, Bard, War Chanter, Hordemaster
Build: Valorous Bard
Eldritch Strike: Eldritch Strike Charisma
Bardic Virtue: Virtue of Valor
Signs of Influence: Ritual Beneficiary
Signs of Influence: Demand Audience
Signs of Influence: Welcome Guest
Signs of Influence: Travel in Style
Horde Champion: Horde Champion Charisma
Horde Champion: Horde Champion Constitution
Half-Elf Power Selection: Dilettante
Background: Sidhe Lord (+2 to Diplomacy)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 12, Con 26, Dex 16, Int 15, Wis 10, Cha 28.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 14, Dex 14, Int 13, Wis 8, Cha 16.


AC: 43 Fort: 48 Reflex: 42 Will: 50
HP: 203 Surges: 15 Surge Value: 50

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +22, Intimidate +29, Streetwise +29, Bluff +29, Diplomacy +33

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +19, Dungeoneering +16, Endurance +24, Heal +16, History +18, Insight +18, Nature +16, Perception +16, Religion +18, Stealth +19, Thievery +19, Athletics +17

FEATS
Bard: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Blade Initiate
Level 2: Battle Song Expertise
Level 4: Improved Defenses
Level 6: Battle Cadence
Level 8: Improved Majestic Word
Level 10: Bardic Wayfarer
Level 11: Psychic Lock
Level 12: Disheartening Presence
Level 14: Walk Among the Fey
Level 16: Improved Valor
Level 18: Versatile Master
Level 20: Arcane Familiar
Level 21: Quickened Spellcasting
Level 22: Supreme Majesty
Level 24: Superior Initiative
Level 26: Epic Fortitude
Level 28: Epic Reflexes
Level 30: Epic Will

POWERS
Bard at-will 1: Guiding Strike
Bard at-will 1: Staggering Note
Dilettante: Eldritch Strike
Bard encounter 1: Lesser Dimensional Step
Bard daily 1: Stirring Shout
Bard utility 2: Sidhe Bargain
Bard encounter 3: Echoing Weapon
Bard daily 5: Timeless Trek in Mithrendain
Bard utility 6: Revitalizing Incantation
Bard encounter 7: Scorpion's Claw Strike
Bard daily 9: Song of Discord
Bard utility 10: Mantle of Unity
Bard encounter 13: Dimensional Step (replaces Lesser Dimensional Step)
Bard daily 15: Satire of Evasion (replaces Stirring Shout)
Bard utility 16: Song of Sublime Snowfall
Bard encounter 17: Song of Summons (replaces Echoing Weapon)
Bard daily 19: Satire of Prowess (replaces Song of Discord)
Bard utility 22: Note of Aggression
Bard encounter 23: White Wolves (replaces Scorpion's Claw Strike)
Bard daily 25: Frenzied Rhythm (replaces Timeless Trek in Mithrendain)
Bard encounter 27: Greater Dimensional Step (replaces Dimensional Step)
Bard daily 29: Hero's Beacon (replaces Satire of Evasion)

ITEMS
Ritual Book, Adventurer's Kit, Disguise Kit, Faerie Puppet, Feywine Raisin (6), Flute, Githyanki Silver Longsword +6, Iron Armbands of Power (epic tier), Boots of Teleportation (epic tier), Eye of Awareness (epic tier), Belt of Vitality (epic tier), Backlash Tattoo (heroic tier), Siberys Shard of the Mage (epic tier), Brooch of Vitality +6, Sapphire Scabbard (paragon tier), Bronze Griffon (paragon tier), Incisive Dagger Dagger +6, Eladrin Spiritmail +6, Eladrin Ring of Passage (paragon tier), Ring of Retreat (paragon tier), Gloves of Dimensional Repulsion (paragon tier)
RITUALS
Comrades' Succor, Glib Limerick
RIP George! 4-21-11 RIP Abie! 1-2-13
Funny Forum Quotes
[quote author=82733368 post=532127449]
58115148 wrote:
"You notice a large piece of mold clinging to your toothbrush. What do you do?" "I cast Fireball." "I run like hell!
63797881 wrote:
The standard d4 is somewhat (SOMEWHAT) rounded on the top, the older models are even flat. The Lego is shaped in such a way that in an emergency, you can use one as a makeshift surgical knife.
147742801 wrote:
57457938 wrote:
My wife asked me if her pants made her look fat. What do you think I said?
Wife: Do these pants make me look fat? RedSiegfried: I just killed a bunch of orc women and children.
63797881 wrote:
82733368 wrote:
28.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character (Monk or otherwise) does not require my character to be completely shitfaced, no matter what the name (and fun interpretation) implies.
29.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character does not require ME to be completely tanked, no matter how "in-character" I want to be..
Where in the world are you getting +12 and +14 teleport distance?

Incisive Dagger is +6 to the distance you teleport with Teleportation Powers
Eladrin Armor is +3 to the distance you teleport
Eladrin Ring of Passage is +1 to the distance you teleport
Ring of Retreat is +1 to the distance of teleports when you use a Teleportation Power.
Gloves of Dimensional Repulsion is +2 distance when teleporting others with Teleportation Powers.
Do you have the Dimensional Pet? +1 to the distance you teleport (and I would really use a Claw Familiar so that you can use a Shield, your AC is trash)
That's +12 for you teleporting when you use a Teleportation Power, but only +5 if there's no keyword. Teleporting other creatures with Teleportation Powers is a +3 (Gloves and Retreat), and a +0 if there's no keyword.
I'd also like to point out that Boots of Teleportation are Rare, if you have a Rare, I'd expect it to be Headband of Intellect for +1 Hit Always.


Edit: You have much better things to take in Epic than Epic Defenses x3. Take the Ref to patch that Defense; get rid of Improved Valor +3 THP/round is trash. Find something else to take - Majestic Rescue and Saving Breath, MC Warlord and Multiclass Mastery, Dual Implement Spellcaster, Armor Proficiency Scale and Armor Specialization Scale ...
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Ok I see what he did wrong- he was apply ALL the bard's teleport mods to allies as well; no big deal thanks for clearing it up. What would you suggest for other feats in epic?
RIP George! 4-21-11 RIP Abie! 1-2-13
Funny Forum Quotes
[quote author=82733368 post=532127449]
58115148 wrote:
"You notice a large piece of mold clinging to your toothbrush. What do you do?" "I cast Fireball." "I run like hell!
63797881 wrote:
The standard d4 is somewhat (SOMEWHAT) rounded on the top, the older models are even flat. The Lego is shaped in such a way that in an emergency, you can use one as a makeshift surgical knife.
147742801 wrote:
57457938 wrote:
My wife asked me if her pants made her look fat. What do you think I said?
Wife: Do these pants make me look fat? RedSiegfried: I just killed a bunch of orc women and children.
63797881 wrote:
82733368 wrote:
28.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character (Monk or otherwise) does not require my character to be completely shitfaced, no matter what the name (and fun interpretation) implies.
29.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character does not require ME to be completely tanked, no matter how "in-character" I want to be..
I'd go for the Scale set, and with having a Shield he'd be +3 AC +1 Ref. Use the feat slot from Improved Valor for Superior Will for another +1 Will and saving vs Daze/Stun at start of turn. For a melee character, Level +16/14/13/17 is much better than Level +13/18/12/20. And yes, I'm aware this means no Eladrin Armor, you can switch to Eladrin Boots instead of the Rare boots and wear Benefactor Armor/Soulwarding/Black Iron/Agile/etc. There's a lot of strong choices for a Leader. Epic Leaders that want to stand in Melee need to turn their focus to being a lot more defensive because the best tactic for a DM is 100% Kill the Leader.

And then Retrain Blade Initiate into Multiclass Mastery, through which you'll take Blade Initiate and Resourceful Leader (2 feats for the price of 1!)

Also, why Hordemaster? As a Bard you can be picking up Fatesinger, with MC Warlord you can be a warmaster, or just be a Destined Scion at the very least.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
I have other issues ... Battle Presence isn't very good, even when you get Supreme Majesty, Dual Implement Spellcaster is outright adding more damage. It's being taken too early anyway, you'd want Improved Init (retrain to Superior at Epic), or Superior Will at that level.

It's probably a player preference thing, but Gith Silver + Psychic Lock is just weak, you're affecting 1 attack every 2 combats when you could be doing +Enh to damage on Implement Powers (and freeing up your Arm Slot for Counterstrike Guards, Bracers of Mental Might, or Rapidstrike Bracers) and +Dragonshard to damage on Melee Powers - ie. using a Radiant Longsword with the Shard of Radiance.

Disheartening Presence is meh, replace this with Majestic Rescue.

Why have Walk Among the Fey? Converting Slides into Teleports only matters if you can boost those teleports, and the only Slide->Teleports that can be boosted are ones affecting you. He doesn't have any of those. Literally any feat I've mentioned is a better choice here.

If you look about 10 posts up, I made some suggestions on powers. Whatever you do, get rid of Timeless Trek in Mithrendain and Scorpions Claw Strike, please.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Alright I'll make the suggestions later, thanks.
RIP George! 4-21-11 RIP Abie! 1-2-13
Funny Forum Quotes
[quote author=82733368 post=532127449]
58115148 wrote:
"You notice a large piece of mold clinging to your toothbrush. What do you do?" "I cast Fireball." "I run like hell!
63797881 wrote:
The standard d4 is somewhat (SOMEWHAT) rounded on the top, the older models are even flat. The Lego is shaped in such a way that in an emergency, you can use one as a makeshift surgical knife.
147742801 wrote:
57457938 wrote:
My wife asked me if her pants made her look fat. What do you think I said?
Wife: Do these pants make me look fat? RedSiegfried: I just killed a bunch of orc women and children.
63797881 wrote:
82733368 wrote:
28.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character (Monk or otherwise) does not require my character to be completely shitfaced, no matter what the name (and fun interpretation) implies.
29.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character does not require ME to be completely tanked, no matter how "in-character" I want to be..
I've gotta retool it tomorrow, I was working on it now but it's taking longer than I thought. Will post the build when finished.
RIP George! 4-21-11 RIP Abie! 1-2-13
Funny Forum Quotes
[quote author=82733368 post=532127449]
58115148 wrote:
"You notice a large piece of mold clinging to your toothbrush. What do you do?" "I cast Fireball." "I run like hell!
63797881 wrote:
The standard d4 is somewhat (SOMEWHAT) rounded on the top, the older models are even flat. The Lego is shaped in such a way that in an emergency, you can use one as a makeshift surgical knife.
147742801 wrote:
57457938 wrote:
My wife asked me if her pants made her look fat. What do you think I said?
Wife: Do these pants make me look fat? RedSiegfried: I just killed a bunch of orc women and children.
63797881 wrote:
82733368 wrote:
28.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character (Monk or otherwise) does not require my character to be completely shitfaced, no matter what the name (and fun interpretation) implies.
29.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character does not require ME to be completely tanked, no matter how "in-character" I want to be..
Any better?

Multiclass Mastery wasn't letting me retrain Blade Initiate then re-select it, so I just put AIP: Heavy Blade in its place in the beginning.

Show
level 30
Half-Elf, Bard, War Chanter, Warmaster
Build: Valorous Bard
Eldritch Strike: Eldritch Strike Charisma
Bardic Virtue: Virtue of Valor
Signs of Influence: Ritual Beneficiary
Signs of Influence: Demand Audience
Signs of Influence: Welcome Guest
Signs of Influence: Travel in Style
Arcane Implement Proficiency: Arcane Implement Proficiency (heavy blade group)
Half-Elf Power Selection: Dilettante
Quickened Spellcasting: Eldritch Strike
Background: Sidhe Lord (+2 to Diplomacy)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 14, Con 24, Dex 15, Int 15, Wis 10, Cha 26.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 12, Con 14, Dex 13, Int 13, Wis 8, Cha 16.


AC: 46 Fort: 43 Reflex: 43 Will: 45
HP: 216 Surges: 14 Surge Value: 54

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +22, Intimidate +28, Streetwise +28, Bluff +28, Diplomacy +32, Endurance +27

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +18, Dungeoneering +16, Heal +16, History +18, Insight +18, Nature +16, Perception +16, Religion +18, Stealth +18, Thievery +18, Athletics +18

FEATS
Bard: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Arcane Implement Proficiency (retrained to Multiclass Mastery at Level 21)
Level 2: Battle Song Expertise
Level 4: Improved Defenses
Level 6: Saving Breath
Level 8: Improved Majestic Word
Level 10: Toughness
Level 11: Armor Proficiency: Scale
Level 12: Majestic Rescue
Level 14: Gritty Determination
Level 16: Fleet-Footed
Level 18: Versatile Master
Level 20: Vexing Flanker
Multiclass Mastery: Blade Initiate
Multiclass Mastery: Resourceful Leader
Level 21: Armor Specialization (Scale)
Level 22: Supreme Majesty
Level 24: Superior Initiative
Level 26: Bard Implement Expertise
Level 28: Epic Reflexes
Level 30: Quickened Spellcasting

POWERS
Bard at-will 1: Guiding Strike
Bard at-will 1: Staggering Note
Dilettante: Eldritch Strike
Bard encounter 1: Lesser Dimensional Step
Bard daily 1: Stirring Shout
Bard utility 2: Sidhe Bargain
Bard encounter 3: Echoing Weapon
Bard daily 5: Song of Discord
Bard utility 6: Revitalizing Incantation
Bard encounter 7: Prescient Warning
Bard daily 9: Wail of Anguish
Bard utility 10: Mantle of Unity
Bard encounter 13: Dimensional Step (replaces Lesser Dimensional Step)
Bard daily 15: Strike Up the Dance (replaces Stirring Shout)
Bard utility 16: Song of Sublime Snowfall
Bard encounter 17: Song of Summons (replaces Echoing Weapon)
Bard daily 19: Satire of Prowess (replaces Wail of Anguish)
Bard utility 22: Note of Aggression
Bard encounter 23: White Wolves (replaces Prescient Warning)
Bard daily 25: Frenzied Rhythm (replaces Song of Discord)
Bard encounter 27: Greater Dimensional Step (replaces Dimensional Step)
Bard daily 29: Hero's Beacon (replaces Strike Up the Dance)

ITEMS
Ritual Book, Adventurer's Kit, Disguise Kit, Faerie Puppet, Feywine Raisin (6), Flute, Iron Armbands of Power (epic tier), Strikebacks (heroic tier), Eye of Awareness (epic tier), Shadow Band, Belt of Vitality (epic tier), Backlash Tattoo (heroic tier), Siberys Shard of the Mage (epic tier), Brooch of Vitality +6, Sapphire Scabbard (paragon tier), Bronze Griffon (paragon tier), Soulwarding Elderscale Armor +6, Rhythm Blade Dagger +6, Cunning Longsword +6, Dimensional Stride Boots (paragon tier), War Ring (paragon tier)
RITUALS
Comrades' Succor, Glib Limerick


RIP George! 4-21-11 RIP Abie! 1-2-13
Funny Forum Quotes
[quote author=82733368 post=532127449]
58115148 wrote:
"You notice a large piece of mold clinging to your toothbrush. What do you do?" "I cast Fireball." "I run like hell!
63797881 wrote:
The standard d4 is somewhat (SOMEWHAT) rounded on the top, the older models are even flat. The Lego is shaped in such a way that in an emergency, you can use one as a makeshift surgical knife.
147742801 wrote:
57457938 wrote:
My wife asked me if her pants made her look fat. What do you think I said?
Wife: Do these pants make me look fat? RedSiegfried: I just killed a bunch of orc women and children.
63797881 wrote:
82733368 wrote:
28.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character (Monk or otherwise) does not require my character to be completely shitfaced, no matter what the name (and fun interpretation) implies.
29.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character does not require ME to be completely tanked, no matter how "in-character" I want to be..
I really couldn't decide on feats, so there's a few placeholders in there, and I still have no idea why the damn CB wouldn't let me retrain Blade Initiate into MM then re-select it...it did at first then unchecked itself or something.
RIP George! 4-21-11 RIP Abie! 1-2-13
Funny Forum Quotes
[quote author=82733368 post=532127449]
58115148 wrote:
"You notice a large piece of mold clinging to your toothbrush. What do you do?" "I cast Fireball." "I run like hell!
63797881 wrote:
The standard d4 is somewhat (SOMEWHAT) rounded on the top, the older models are even flat. The Lego is shaped in such a way that in an emergency, you can use one as a makeshift surgical knife.
147742801 wrote:
57457938 wrote:
My wife asked me if her pants made her look fat. What do you think I said?
Wife: Do these pants make me look fat? RedSiegfried: I just killed a bunch of orc women and children.
63797881 wrote:
82733368 wrote:
28.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character (Monk or otherwise) does not require my character to be completely shitfaced, no matter what the name (and fun interpretation) implies.
29.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character does not require ME to be completely tanked, no matter how "in-character" I want to be..
Bump plz.
RIP George! 4-21-11 RIP Abie! 1-2-13
Funny Forum Quotes
[quote author=82733368 post=532127449]
58115148 wrote:
"You notice a large piece of mold clinging to your toothbrush. What do you do?" "I cast Fireball." "I run like hell!
63797881 wrote:
The standard d4 is somewhat (SOMEWHAT) rounded on the top, the older models are even flat. The Lego is shaped in such a way that in an emergency, you can use one as a makeshift surgical knife.
147742801 wrote:
57457938 wrote:
My wife asked me if her pants made her look fat. What do you think I said?
Wife: Do these pants make me look fat? RedSiegfried: I just killed a bunch of orc women and children.
63797881 wrote:
82733368 wrote:
28.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character (Monk or otherwise) does not require my character to be completely shitfaced, no matter what the name (and fun interpretation) implies.
29.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character does not require ME to be completely tanked, no matter how "in-character" I want to be..
Captain Steven Rogers.  That's my suggestion.
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