speed bonuses and swim or fly speed

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If a creature has a fly or swim speed and gains a bonus to its speed via a power or feat does it apply to all its speeds or just land speed?

Using a pixie monk as an example, if the character takes "fluid motion" does its fly speed increase? What about if the party ranger uses the power "safe passage"

If there has been any rulings on this can you point me in the right direction. Thanks much  
If a creature has a fly or swim speed and gains a bonus to its speed via a power or feat does it apply to all its speeds or just land speed?

Using a pixie monk as an example, if the character takes "fluid motion" does its fly speed increase? What about if the party ranger uses the power "safe passage"

If there has been any rulings on this can you point me in the right direction. Thanks much  


Here are the relevant definitions for the flying case, with the most important parts in italics:


Speed

The distance (in squares) that a creature can move using the walk action.


Published in Player's Handbook, page(s) 283, Rules Compendium, page(s) 316.


 
 
Flying

Some creatures have the innate ability to fly, whereas others gain the ability through powers, magic items, or other attributes. The rules for flight emphasize abstraction and simplicity over simulation. In real life, a flying creature’s ability to turn, the speed it must maintain to stay aloft, and other factors put a strict limit on flight. In the game, flying creatures face far fewer limitations.
    Flight follows the basic movement rules, with the following clarifications.

Fly Speed: To fly, a creature takes the walk, run, or charge action but uses its fly speed in place of its walking speed. A creature that has a fly speed can also shift and take other move actions, as appropriate, while flying.


Published in Dungeon Master's Guide, page(s) 47, Rules Compendium, page(s) 210.



These definitions dictate that the answer to your question is "just land speed", or more precisely: a bonus to speed means you can move more squares with the walk action (and therefore also things like the run action, for which the maximum distance is derived from the maximum distance of the walk action).  It does not also increase your fly speed unless the item / power / feature / whatever specifically says it does. 

EDIT:  The persnickety RAW distinction between speed and fly speed means that bonuses that apply merely to speed don't also apply to fly speed, but it also means that penalties that apply only to speed don't also apply to fly speed.  For example, a pixie in heavy armor has its speed reduced from 4 to 3, but its fly speed remains 6.  (Note again that penalties to speed that explicitly state that they apply to fly speed still affect fly speed.  The slowed condition is an example.)

That's an argument that's made, but it's flawed.  The "just land speed" conclusion is only able to be reached if you ignore the rules for how special movement mode speeds work.  Your speed is whatever you're using at the time for the movement.  Bonuses and penalties to speed apply to the movement mode that you're using.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
That's an argument that's made, but it's flawed.  The "just land speed" conclusion is only able to be reached if you ignore the rules for how special movement mode speeds work.  Your speed is whatever you're using at the time for the movement.  Bonuses and penalties to speed apply to the movement mode that you're using.


Can you elaborate on this?  I thought the RAW argument is fairly straightforward: pixies have speed 4 and fly speed 6.  A bonus / penalty to speed doesn't automatically apply to flight for pixies, because pixies use their fly speed in place of walking speed.  I guess my interpretation assumes that "walking speed" in the Flying definition entry = "speed" in the speed definition entry (the word 'walking' merely clarifies), but otherwise I'm not sure how any other interpretation of RAW is possible.

Also, I know people like to complain about the Character Builder and Customer Service, but both confirm this interpretation.  A pixie in heavy armor has its speed reduced to 3, but its fly speed remains 6.
The Walk action is what defines your speed, and you can take the Walk action while using a special movement mode speed such as flying, swimming, climbing, burrowing, or teleporting.

"Your speed" is whatever movement mode you're using at the time.  All movement that involves "your speed" can be used with special movement modes.  Yes, there is a concept of "ground speed" but almost nothing affects it and it alone. 


You're correct that Builder doesn't handle this properly, and that most people's sense of how this works is the way you describe, but it's not how the rules actually interact.  It would be nice if they defined it more clearly, I agree.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
This is not an instance where all movement modes refer to a base "your speed"; each mode on the pixie has its own speed.   Are you saying that anything that affects "your speed" would affect each mode, such that fluid motion in heroic would give the pixie walk speed 5 fly speed 7?  That is the OPs question. 


Yes, that's what I'm saying.  Speed is defined as "the number of squares you can move with the Walk action" - in the case of a pixie, that's two distinct numbers.  If you get a +1 bonus to "speed" it has to affect them both.  There's nothing in the rules to tell you which is which.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Thanks for the responses I guess this has been debated before.  I suppose I'll have the DM make the call since this isn't so clear cut. 
Thanks for the responses I guess this has been debated before.  I suppose I'll have the DM make the call since this isn't so clear cut. 



Yeah, that's what I was going to suggest.  The wording and rules seem inconclusive, because fly speed could be considered a type of speed (along with ground speed, swim speed, etc.), in which case bonuses and penalties to speed also apply to fly speed, or it could be considered a separate thing from speed (which would then be something like "how far you can get by walking on the ground"), in which case it wouldn't.  I'm not sure that the rules adjudicate clearly between these two interpretations.  The wording for the Slowed condition suggests the latter interpretation, but that's not conclusive.

Anyway, it seems reasonable to expect table variation, and if this is for a home game with a single DM you could just ask him / her and plan accordingly.
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

Last thread where this came up, with the relevant rules ar cited for why Walking Speed and "Special Movement Modes" are different things, despite the latter always having the word "Speed" in them. Confusion comes from overloading the terms "Speed", "Walk", and "Walking", just like "attack."

Here are the relevant definitions for the flying case, with the most important parts in italics:
[...]
These definitions dictate that the answer to your question is "just land speed", or more precisely: a bonus to speed means you can move more squares with the walk action (and therefore also things like the run action, for which the maximum distance is derived from the maximum distance of the walk action).  It does not also increase your fly speed unless the item / power / feature / whatever specifically says it does.


I am not sure if they changed the wording since the last time it was discussed, however these two quotes above seem to unequivocal state that it applies to fly speed as well.

If speed is only defined as the [...] using the walk action. and flying works explicitly by the creature taking [u]the walk [...] action[/u] then any increased that's just defined as speed applies to everything done through the walk action.

If something only applies to a limited use of the walk action it would need to specificall state so (e.g. your walking speed increses by X)
If speed is only defined as the [...] using the walk action. and flying works explicitly by the creature taking [u]the walk [...] action[/u] then any increased that's just defined as speed applies to everything done through the walk action.


Yep, that's pretty much my current logic.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
I am not sure if they changed the wording since the last time it was discussed, however these two quotes above seem to unequivocal state that it applies to fly speed as well.

If speed is only defined as the [...] using the walk action. and flying works explicitly by the creature taking [u]the walk [...] action[/u] then any increased that's just defined as speed applies to everything done through the walk action.

If something only applies to a limited use of the walk action it would need to specificall state so (e.g. your walking speed increses by X)

In the section concerning Special Movement Modes, which is what flying/swimming/burrowing/etc are, it does make that distinction at the beginning of the section. Just not in the general definition of Speed, because despite having "Speed" in the name, Special Movement modes are not "Speed". Read the linked thread.
In the section concerning Special Movement Modes, which is what flying/swimming/burrowing/etc are, it does make that distinction at the beginning of the section.

Yet that is not the definition of speed.
Just not in the general definition of Speed

And thus it does not define speed, it merely elaborates that you can have more specific forms of speed, but it doesn't set one of them as "the one standard speed" (this has been done in the defintion of speed and it's not limited there).

This allows designers to give more limited bonuses to certain subcategories of speeds but if that is not specified then it's just to speed and per definition of speed this includes all of them.
. Read the linked thread.

I read it and disagree. There one definition of speed (in the paragraph with the headline called Speed) and that's it.

Except not. Regardless of the definition of speed, if an entire section of movement modes calls itself out as not being speed  guess what that means? It isn't speed. Because it says so. Though in fairness the RC definition of Speed, under the Speed section, refers to walking. Not taking the Walk action, which are not the same thing.

Look, the term is overloaded, just like "attack."
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