We over I

26 posts / 0 new
Last post
Just to begin I will point out that I know most people will not like this idea but its something that fits nicely within my group, I'm merely looking for ideas from the community for features to add.

I have started adding bonus custom feats that benefit the party as a whole for good teamwork which are small but give the party as a whole a unique edge. One example is a natural high from victory, if no player falls in a combat encounter the party recover 1d4 hit points.

Anyone willing to help me out with ideas for minor boons like this?

If anyone is interested this only started because of unique abilities I gave some elven soldiers being able to cast spells through their squadmates weapons because they had spent their lives training together, to which the party quickly picked up on the fact that was what they are now doing.
+1 for teamwork feats.

And teamwork classes.

And teamwork options (rogue's distract).



It's something that's sorely missing from 5e. 

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

You took an elven example, I can't agree with anything now.
Sorry.
Wouldn't this just enable some jackhole to "optimize" an entire party?

"No, you can't play a Dwarf Ranger.  We need this Half-Celestial dragonborn Bard I worked up to work perfectly with the builds I gave to Fred and Bill."

"What the hell are you doing?!   You need to take a level of Monk at fifth!"

"Okay, um, Fred, give that +3 scimitar to Amy.  I don't care that you've wanted one for three months, the math works out better if Amy has it!"
These feats are for the DM to hand out as I play it. Not for players to take. Reward, not entitlement.

I am only asking for a little help with ideas, please at least respect that much.
Wouldn't this just enable some jackhole to "optimize" an entire party?

"No, you can't play a Dwarf Ranger.  We need this Half-Celestial dragonborn Bard I worked up to work perfectly with the builds I gave to Fred and Bill."

"What the hell are you doing?!   You need to take a level of Monk at fifth!"

"Okay, um, Fred, give that +3 scimitar to Amy.  I don't care that you've wanted one for three months, the math works out better if Amy has it!"

You don't need teamwork feats for that.

"No, you can't play a dwarf ranger.  We need a cleric for our party".
"What the hell are you doing?  You need to take a level of monk at fifth for the AC bonus".
"Give the paladin the +1 plate, and leave the fighter with the scale, the math works better".

All of that has pretty much been there since day 1.  Teamwork feats won't make people more, or less, of a dick.



Adding "you can cast a spell from a willing ally"
and"you regain 1d4 HP if no ally fell unconcious"
Will just make things better IMO.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Wouldn't this just enable some jackhole to "optimize" an entire party?


So somebody liking the ability to optimize as a team is "obviously" a bad person? and will do so coercively and force others?
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

Wouldn't this just enable some jackhole to "optimize" an entire party?



You operate under the misconception that people would be obligated to listen to said jackhole.  Just as it is now, such things would be, at best, suggestions that the individual player and/or rest of the party could overrule.
Teamwork feats won't make people more, or less, of a dick.

Oh yes it will, because it would be another vector for doing so.
You operate under the misconception that people would be obligated to listen to said jackhole.

"STFU, Steve!" only has a very slim chance of 'Steve' leaving and/or not being a grumpy ass the whole damn time.

"Party Optimizer" is really just another annoying personification of onetruewayism.


Oh crap, topic:
This seems like the sort of thing that's better done ad-hoc, instead of picking from a list made beforehand.
Teamwork feats won't make people more, or less, of a dick.

Oh yes it will, because it would be another vector for doing so.




And then the group throws the dick out, and the problem solves itself.
Teamwork feats won't make people more, or less, of a dick.

Oh yes it will, because it would be another vector for doing so.
You operate under the misconception that people would be obligated to listen to said jackhole.

"STFU, Steve!" only has a very slim chance of 'Steve' leaving and/or not being a grumpy ass the whole damn time.

"Party Optimizer" is really just another annoying personification of onetruewayism.

Again, "You must be a healing cleric, with spell X and feat Y" happens just as much with or without teamwork feats.

The only way it could really add to someone being a dick is if feat(ure) requires an ally to do or have something.
Group X: "For each ally who has Group X, gain +1 to X".
Tag Team: "When another character does X, you get to do Y".

Which i agree, should be avoided.  Either someone feels pressured to take it, or someone feels they wasted their resourced.  Neither is good.

Instead, you need to make sure it's self controlled.
Group X: "You give +1 X to each ally".
Tag Team: "When you do X, an ally can do Y".

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

So... Yea...

Has anyone read, understood and is willing to help with what I asked? I said my piece on this being a bad approach for most people to avoid you telling me that this is a bad approach.

Now thank you for all repeating me in a nice plethora of ways but could you either make a thread to debunk this one seperately or at least add something constructive.

This thread has been a great example of one of the biggest problems of the forum. The point is often lost into needless debate.

Again... Please help.
So... Yea... Has anyone read, understood and is willing to help with what I asked? I said my piece on this being a bad approach for most people to avoid you telling me that this is a bad approach. Now thank you for all repeating me in a nice plethora of ways but could you either make a thread to debunk this one seperately or at least add something constructive. This thread has been a great example of one of the biggest problems of the forum. The point is often lost into needless debate. Again... Please help.



I'm not sure if you're aware, Orwellian, but Pathfinder has a slew of teamwork feats that might help get your creative juices flowing and/or give you ideas to crib.  I'm sorry that's about all I can offer, but I do remember them being -very- evocative (a couple in particular for a group of rogues were outright deadly as I recall, even though individually it didn't seem like much).

"Lightning...it flashes bright, then fades away.  It can't protect, it can only destroy."

"STFU, Steve!" only has a very slim chance of 'Steve' leaving and/or not being a grumpy ass the whole damn time.



And if such disruptive behavior continues, the choice of 'Steve' leaving is taken out of 'Steve's' hands.
Thanks anjelika I've never actually picked pathfinder up before other than some artwork books. I think ill have a look now.
Only those players come up with reasons to this idea being bad, who would firsthand try to abuse it and force onto other players their ideas and needs. The best response to this would be: "You want a cleric with feat x and spells a, b and c, and don't like what I'm doing? THEN YOU PLAY IT!"

That being said, ignore Qmark, TS. Like someone already said - it won't make people be ****s towards others more than they would usually be, in spite of his arguments.

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg)

Orwellian Haggis


Try a dice pool. If the party fulfills your definition of "teamwork" they get a d6 added to the parties dice pool. Any character can use that dice to add to one die roll of any OTHER player, at which point the die is expended. (You may want to cap the number that can be banked and/or the number that can be spent on one task.)

This has the virtue of being incredibly flexible so you don't need a table of mini-rewards, and encourages teamwork in both earning the reward and in spending it.

It has the vice of being a really bad idea in a gaming group containing the above referenced jackholes.

Thanks anjelika I've never actually picked pathfinder up before other than some artwork books. I think ill have a look now.


My pleasure.  All the rules are available online, so it won't set you back anything to check them out.  pfsrd.(something).  org, I think.  Been a while.

"Lightning...it flashes bright, then fades away.  It can't protect, it can only destroy."

Again... Please help.


Again, this is something that needs to be ad-hoc'd at the table, at the time, because it's inherently situational.

But, something offhand would be to let casters have some way of 'transferring' slots.
"Oh man, I'm out of fireballs."
"Um... hey DM, can I give Bill one of my level-3s?"
Teamwork feats are a great idea. And if you don't like them, Qmark and other potential haters, don't use them!
Thanks for the helpful posts now. As for being ad hoc, that is the plan I just like having other peoples ideas, it can add great new perspectives and ideas for when I simply can't think of anything suitable. The dice pool is a nice idea which I think I might add as a more widespread idea in my worlds as a representation of military discipline as the group are playing as a squad of ex soldiers. The dice pool cap will generally be based on military rank as well as how many can be taken at once. I'm also thinking of giving players who are currently playing as a couple in game some equivelant to lovers comfort in skyrim when they rest together .
Hi folks,

This is an interesting concept. But please avoid inappropriate references in your posts.

Thanks,

Monica

Monica

Wizards of the Coast Online Community Coordinator

A friendly dragon.

I like it. I like it alot.
It has TONS of potential.

Job Well Done:
Prerequisite: An encounter is resolved where none of the party members drop below zero HP.
Benefit: During the next encounter, each party member receives a +1 morale bonus to all saves.

Chain Formation:
Prerequisite: Each party member must be adjacent to another party member.
Benefit: Arcane or divine spells can use any party member as an originating point.




My best quote was deemed innapropriate... But understandable. Ill just go over it again better. I will limit the lovers comfort to prevent character relations for pure mechanical benefit.

Thanks again for the dice pool idea, my mind has been racing with ideas on how to regulate it in a way similar to morale.
No problem. It's hardly an original idea - "Shadowrun" and the group Karma Pool comes to mind - but it does seem to serve the purpose you are after with a minimum of fuss.
I really dig this idea. I think sharing/learning skills might be a good ad hoc feat. Say a really stealthy character helps guide and aid a less stealthy one. Giving up an HD to heal allies.
Are you looking for more one to one teamwork, or everyone did well, so here's a reward?
Ooo... ambush momentum. Not everybody's play style, but if the party kills all enemies in one round of combat, it is considered silent and cannot alert nearby enemies.
"What's stupid is when people decide that X is true - even when it is demonstrable untrue or 100% against what we've said - and run around complaining about that. That's just a breakdown of basic human reasoning." -Mike Mearls