Tenser’s Floating Disk and all the crap that comes with it. help/advice on ruiling for/against this

25 posts / 0 new
Last post
im sure most players know about Tenser’s Floating Disk. phb1 pg.312 of 4th edditon.  i am currently having or will end up having issues with this ritual with one of my players. and i want to know how much rule thumping can i use in this scenario.

 the player in question is using the disk (thank god he hasn't figured out he can block doors shut with it.) but he has attempted to do something id hoped he never would have figured out to try and do.

he is a Wizard. not just any wizard but a  low level thunder/lightning wizard. so naturally he is going to have Lightning pillar (arcane powers pg 100ish) and combine it with thunderwave. as you all have no doubt figured out he has surmized that if a creature enters the same square as the disc said creature could be moved using the disk.

so here are the bottomline questions. and if anyone knows what book a ruling for this would be in i would be most greatful.

1. can the disc "shift" i personally do not think so as it is not a creature or a true summons. much like flaming sphere.
2. if a player were to move the disc away from melee while riding it could it provoke an oppertunity attack. (i believe it would) as it is not a shift/slide/push/pull.
3. If a creature steps into the same square as the disc would the creatue be forced onto the disc?
4. If yes to question 3 could the disc be used to force the creature to move with the disc. the issue with this is moving the creature/disc through nearly an entire Lightning Pillar can cause some serious issues.
5. lastly if this is the case would i as the DM be in my rights to give the creature a chance at a saving throw to get off the disc? if there are no rules that i can relay on i might have to resourt to saving throw 14-20 creature steps off the disc 8-13 creature falls off the disc and is knocked prone. 2-7 he goes for a ride. 1 he is knocked prone and falls on the disc.

my logic behind this is under the concept of pulling a rug out from under an enemy. id rather not half to make a janky house rule like that. if there are any rules for something like that in 4e that i've clearly missed?

6. (last second thought here) since the disc does float just above the ground. it counts as ground transport. IE it cannot go over water/lava. but does this allow it to slip over pressure plates?

id be greatful if any more experianced DM's cang ive me any insight on what they would do in this scenario. or if possible any rulings for 4e that would help make the rulings on  this more stable.
So, Tenser's Floating Disk is only 3 feet across, so I doubt it's going to be able to be so imposing that a creature can't enter it's square without stepping on it. However, the player can move the disk as a move action. I figure it would just follow the same rules as regular forced movement.

But I'm just not seeing the problem here. Even if he pushed someone onto the disk (which I do think would require a saving throw to land on top of), he already has tools to push someone into his Storm Pillar, so...no big deal? I mean, going Storm Pillar into a Thunderwave is going to pile on the damage already, and works quicker and faster than using the floating disk. I say let your player go for it so he can have some fun.
currently the player in question is level 2. his thunderwave is onlys trong enough to blast a creature into 2  of the squares assuming it was next to it. with the disc he could move a creature through 5. thats 1d6+4 for him. its giving giving so much to him that its unfair to the other players. positioned properly he could move the target through 5 finishing with a thunder wave making the creature in question take anywhere between 35-70 on the lightning pillar alone.with thunderwaves damage its 40-80  damage in 1 turn for using at will powers with a ritual that lasts 24 hours for 10g. this isn't so much about not letting him have fun as it being more fare to the other players.


If you're so worried about it, cut it before it becomes a problem. Just say that in combat he cannot focus enough (spend actions) to keep the disk afloat while also casting spells, and be done with it. By the way, since the disk moves on its own volition towards the caster once the caster is more than 5 squares away, how would you permanently block a door with this ?

Anyway, this is not all that strong a character. Giving him the benefit would not break the game in the slightest.

1: no, but the player as a move action could shift it on his turn
2: yes, it would provoke
3: no
4: not relevant
5: the disk floats in the air, how do you propose an enemy would get on this ? And if so, they get a normal saving throw, just like pushing into difficult terrain, off a ledge, etc
6: yes
1) Shift: I believe the disk can "shift" - moving slowly and carefully (going 1/6th of their normal speed) instead of at normal pace
2) Moving: Yes - no different to if they walked away, or rode away on a horse
3) Forced onto it: I don't believe so. If someone had a desk in a middle of the room, you wouldn't be forced to stand on the desk. You could stand next to it, or maybe be pushed onto the disk, but I don't think a wolf/orc/dragon would casually stand on a magical floating disk - chances are they would avoid that square.
4) If a creature was forced onto it, I'd imagine it like someone with 1 foot on, 1 foot off while they regain their balance. The disk would move away, and they might stumble (giving combat advantage), but not move with it
5) House rules: I prefer the automatic 'no forced movement from being on the disk, but gives combat advantage' they still get a boon from doing their cool trick, and you're still rewarding them for being creative and fun, but not making it a required tactic for every battle, just a cool one.
6)  Movement type: Tenser's disk would go underwater and hover over the bottom of the lakebed - so if there is a person strapped on there, or your food on it, it's going to get wet
7) Storm pillar damage: Why would you calculate damage 5 times for storm pillar? I assume it is like every other damazing area, and the monster can only take that damage once per turn. Even if the ability did not specifically state it, I'd go by RAI or find an obscure reference to it.


Best advice I can give you: Stop worrying about the bugbear of "balance" and move on.

I'm on a journey of enlightenment, learning and self-improvement. A journey towards mastery. A journey that will never end. If you challenge me, prepare to be challenged. If you have something to offer as a fellow student, I will accept it. If you call yourself a master, prepare to be humbled. If you seek me, look to the path. I will be traveling it.

 

Proudly playing in many wrong ways. I'm not afraid of playing wrong according to the rules. Why are you?

 

100 Crack Reply of the Yagamifire. You are already wrong.

Yes, all of those things can and do work. Tenser's Floating Disk, like any other power or ritual, is as powerful as players can figure out or imagine to make it.

If you're not sure how to rule on a given use of something, rule it case by case. Things aren't simulated the same way every time in 4e, as evidenced by skill challenges. If you're not sure how to rule, ask your player what they think is appropriate. It could be they think that no roll would be appropriate, from which you can infer that failing at their idea would not be very interesting to them. If you want them to have a risk of failure, suggest something interesting enough that they'll buy into it. A good model for this would be powers that have an "Effect" line. Something happens even if the power misses.

If all of this versatility is making it hard for you to challenge the player, and the party, point this out, and ask what they think about it. It could be that they like having an easy game, in which case let them have it and focus on getting enjoyment out of the game in some other way than making challenging combat (and don't devote a lot of time to creating combat encounters). It could be that they'd like a game that challenges them despite this creativity, perhaps in order to show off their creativity and have incentive to create more things. If that's what they want, give it to them. If you're not sure how, ask them to collaborate with you.

I have every confidence that shutting this idea down is not going to go over well with the player. The rules are not very clear with situations like this, so anything that puts the brakes on this idea will be coming from you and your interpretations of the rules in order to preserve your idea of how the game should work. That's not a great position for a DM to be in, and players can often tell when the DM is just trying to stop them. They don't like it (and why should they) and there's ongoing tension in the game, especially if the player tries more and more ideas to try to get the DM to give in. Just give in now. Let him do what is clearly fun for him, and find a way to make it work for everyone.

If I have to ask the GM for it, then I don't want it.

Sometimes, I tell my players to "Roll for degree of success". I never say the opposite.

Look at the rules, and you will find that spellcasting enemies can get rid of the disc for you. But that wouldn't make the player happy to have you throw in the "Anti-Me Monster" or the "Nullify Me Monster".  Maybe a good enemy can shoot arrows through the disc, maybe it takes magic damage when enemies shoot magic missles or acid arrows at it. I don't know the 4E rulings on it.

I once had a player who liked to "Levitate the enemy as high as he could", then drop them while other players pelt it with arrows and spells. I was annoyed with it, so I asked my player "Why do you do that?" and he told me that sometimes, he doesn't know a real answer to an enemy he feels hopeless against.  I realized some of my monsters entrances were dramatic enough to make the players a little overparanoid, in a way that distracted them, and made them think they needed to be superman.

Later, I had an enemy wearing a Ring of Feather Fall, and another enemy cast Cloudwalk while being levitated up. I learned for every action in the game, is an equal and fitting reaction. Plan for your players abilities, get a copy of their character sheets and think about the insidious ways those abilities will be used. Then, look for the "counter". Not every enemy has a counter, and the counter doesn't always work. Do not "Block" the player action or "Nullify it" with your "counter". Instead, respond to it, in a way that makes the encounter more interesting.

A good counter is not one that blocks the player action, instead a good counter is one that adds risk or potentiality of failure to it. The point of the failure is to make the use of the disc interesting either way. Maybe an enemy uses passwall or teleports a player to the "other side" of the disc. Maybe the enemy once in the lightning wall, will laugh because he is receiving a spell/effect of some kind to be lightning immune? Maybe a player will dispel that, which is good teamwork and interesting.

Likewise, design situations where the "right answer" is to use the ability. What if there is a large tower and the players all have to stand on the Floating Disk to move up-down safely? What if there is an enemy where the "Right Answer" actually IS to abuse the disc in that way because the party will be screwed if they don't? What if an enemy does it to them? If players really like a specific ability, build parts of the game around that ability. Reward them for their ingenuity. Give the players tests and challenges where they need to use their favorite ability, or spell.

Within; Without.

Here's what I say in these kinds of situations:

"Sounds cool.  Roll whatever you think is appropriate."

I was DMing a game a couple weeks ago where my PCs were fighting on a Zeppelin.  They kept coming up with cool things to do - climbing onto the engine struts, swinging on ropes, making a molotov cocktail out of booze, pissing out the fire they set with the molotov cocktail.  It made for a much more awesome session for everyone.

Also, generally with zones, I believe the monsters only take that damage once per turn.
DM advice: 1. Do a Session Zero. 2. Start With Action. 3. Always say "Yes" to player ideas. 4. Don't build railroads. 5. Make success, failure, and middling rolls interesting. Player advice: 1. Don't be a dick. 2. Build off each other, don't block each other. 3. You're supposed to be a badass. Act like it. Take risks. My poorly updated blog: http://engineeredfun.wordpress.com/
i try to never take away a players ideas/tactics unless its absolutely necessary. a wizard is supposed to be a striker as well, so doing massive damage is kinda what they do, hence the low hp. as a dm, you can always adjust monster tactics and strengths to make up for it. if im understanding his tactict correctly, you can always throw flying monsters at him.
 if he wants to find ways to break the game, i say go for it, you always have a tarrasque.....
Sometimes, I tell my players to "Roll for degree of success". I never say the opposite.

Look at the rules, and you will find that spellcasting enemies can get rid of the disc for you. But that wouldn't make the player happy to have you throw in the "Anti-Me Monster" or the "Nullify Me Monster".  Maybe a good enemy can shoot arrows through the disc, maybe it takes magic damage when enemies shoot magic missles or acid arrows at it. I don't know the 4E rulings on it.

I once had a player who liked to "Levitate the enemy as high as he could", then drop them while other players pelt it with arrows and spells. I was annoyed with it, so I asked my player "Why do you do that?" and he told me that sometimes, he doesn't know a real answer to an enemy he feels hopeless against.  I realized some of my monsters entrances were dramatic enough to make the players a little overparanoid, in a way that distracted them, and made them think they needed to be superman.

Later, I had an enemy wearing a Ring of Feather Fall, and another enemy cast Cloudwalk while being levitated up. I learned for every action in the game, is an equal and fitting reaction. Plan for your players abilities, get a copy of their character sheets and think about the insidious ways those abilities will be used. Then, look for the "counter". Not every enemy has a counter, and the counter doesn't always work. Do not "Block" the player action or "Nullify it" with your "counter". Instead, respond to it, in a way that makes the encounter more interesting.

A good counter is not one that blocks the player action, instead a good counter is one that adds risk or potentiality of failure to it. The point of the failure is to make the use of the disc interesting either way. Maybe an enemy uses passwall or teleports a player to the "other side" of the disc. Maybe the enemy once in the lightning wall, will laugh because he is receiving a spell/effect of some kind to be lightning immune? Maybe a player will dispel that, which is good teamwork and interesting.

Likewise, design situations where the "right answer" is to use the ability. What if there is a large tower and the players all have to stand on the Floating Disk to move up-down safely? What if there is an enemy where the "Right Answer" actually IS to abuse the disc in that way because the party will be screwed if they don't? What if an enemy does it to them? If players really like a specific ability, build parts of the game around that ability. Reward them for their ingenuity. Give the players tests and challenges where they need to use their favorite ability, or spell.

Great stuff. I would never nullify it or try to get around it unless I'd gotten buy-in from that for the player, but otherwise I agree. I think you nailed at least part of the reason why players do this kind of thing.

I especially like the idea of creating challenges that specifically require this tactic.

If I have to ask the GM for it, then I don't want it.

So I decided to check the errata, because Storm Pillar is basically broken as written. I mean, auto-hitting d6s triggers by forced moment on the class that is the king of forced movement. I mean, with hypnosis alone you could deal 3d6+12 with ease. With at-wills. At level one.

And, yeah, it was nerfed. With the errata, the damage only applies when the creature moves into a square on their own turn. Yeah, a little silly, but at least you avoid pumping out daily level damage right out of the gate with at-wills. Would probably be better if it was an attack vs. reflex, but what are you going to do? I mean, it's 4 years old now.
The disk probably can't carry anything large until the wizard gets a 40 on his arcana. Even of medium creatures, a not considerable number will weight more than 500lbs (so needing a check of 25).

Also RAW - the disc does not excert any forced movement on the enemy. RAW the disc would move and the creature would be left in the same square. To excert any forced movement, that would be have to be explicitly asserted.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
the disk can do whatever the dm allows. it would make a person very happy to succeed on a good idea. but what if i told you, for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. so if you move the disk, the enemy moves his foot and...... its the end of your standard action. 

it would dissapoint me, because i had a different picture of that ability in my head. but i could quit or adapt. 

Troll king

I definitely sympathise with you, OP. One of my players has been using the disc for all sorts of things that are hard to adjudicate. 

It really needs to be case-by-case imo. I'm not sure what you mean about it being unfair to the other players that the wizard is using the disc to his advantage, unless you mean he clears the room before anyone else has any fun. In that case, I'd say scale up your monsters' HP to bring the challenge back for the whole team without having to debate about the wizard's ideas.
the disk can do whatever the dm allows. it would make a person very happy to succeed on a good idea.

Exactly.

but what if i told you, for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. so if you move the disk, the enemy moves his foot and...... its the end of your standard action.

it would dissapoint me, because i had a different picture of that ability in my head. but i could quit or adapt. 

Exactly. Except that doesn't need to be the end of it, if the DM is willing to have an out-of-game discussion about enabling player creativity.

If I have to ask the GM for it, then I don't want it.

I definitely sympathise with you, OP. One of my players has been using the disc for all sorts of things that are hard to adjudicate. 

It really needs to be case-by-case imo. I'm not sure what you mean about it being unfair to the other players that the wizard is using the disc to his advantage, unless you mean he clears the room before anyone else has any fun. In that case, I'd say scale up your monsters' HP to bring the challenge back for the whole team without having to debate about the wizard's ideas.



TFD has no RAW in-combat uses, so if you write one in, then on your own head be it.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
I definitely sympathise with you, OP. One of my players has been using the disc for all sorts of things that are hard to adjudicate. 

It really needs to be case-by-case imo. I'm not sure what you mean about it being unfair to the other players that the wizard is using the disc to his advantage, unless you mean he clears the room before anyone else has any fun. In that case, I'd say scale up your monsters' HP to bring the challenge back for the whole team without having to debate about the wizard's ideas.



TFD has no RAW in-combat uses, so if you write one in, then on your own head be it.


Right, it's just a disc that floats a foot above the ground and holds stuff of 250lbs+. Nothing says it can't have in-combat uses, however. 
Right, it's just a disc that floats a foot above the ground and holds stuff of 250lbs+. Nothing says it can't have in-combat uses, however. 



I'd be interested to hear some of the things your players use the disc for. Rituals seem to get a lot of play in our games but I don't see much in the way of that one in particular.

For any decision or adjudication, ask yourself, "Is this going to be fun for everyone?" and "Is this going to lead to the creation of an exciting, memorable story?"

DMs: Dungeon Master 101  |  Session Zero  |  How to Adjudicate Actions  |  No Myth Roleplaying  |  5e Monster Index & Encounter Calculator
Players: Players 101  |  11 Ways to Be a Better Roleplayer  |  You Are Not Your Character  |  Pre-Gen D&D 5e PCs

Content I Created: Adventure Scenarios  |  Actual Play Reports  |  Tools  |  Game Transcripts

Follow me on Twitter: @is3rith

I definitely sympathise with you, OP. One of my players has been using the disc for all sorts of things that are hard to adjudicate. 

It really needs to be case-by-case imo. I'm not sure what you mean about it being unfair to the other players that the wizard is using the disc to his advantage, unless you mean he clears the room before anyone else has any fun. In that case, I'd say scale up your monsters' HP to bring the challenge back for the whole team without having to debate about the wizard's ideas.



TFD has no RAW in-combat uses, so if you write one in, then on your own head be it.


Right, it's just a disc that floats a foot above the ground and holds stuff of 250lbs+. Nothing says it can't have in-combat uses, however. 



Welcome to the community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758..." title="community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...">Munchkin Fallacy.

Don't know why that link didn't work, but here it is in full: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... 
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Right, it's just a disc that floats a foot above the ground and holds stuff of 250lbs+. Nothing says it can't have in-combat uses, however. 



I'd be interested to hear some of the things your players use the disc for. Rituals seem to get a lot of play in our games but I don't see much in the way of that one in particular.


Tenser's disk has been our most used ritual in our campaigns, possible becaue our first characters used it, so it was in our minds that there was creative stuff (so we didn't go looking for other alternatives). It's been used to cross dangerous rivers (safely strapped to it underwater, instead of hopping along slippering rocks), used a a taboggan (instead of dangerous sliding down), used as a mode of transport (arcana instead of endurance for a gruelling trek). In battle it's been more limited, but off the top of my head it was used to make things a little awkward for a monster (Getting in the way), being used to cart the item the monsters wanted to safety, a handy mobile torch and for near unconscious wizards to collapse onto when they used all their actions attacking (then falling prone onto it as a free action).

Welcome to the community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758..." title="community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...">Munchkin Fallacy.

Don't know why that link didn't work, but here it is in full: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... 



Perhaps what she means to say is that it can be used in a combat scene, not necessarily that it "grants CA" or "causes forced movement."

Because I could imagine a scenario in which the characters pile a drum of flammable liquid or gunpowder on top of it, light a fuse, and shove it off to float into a group of monsters. 

Point being, there's room for plenty of creativity in a fight scene with these sorts of things (perhaps it could be said that's where most creativity happens due to the threat level) while still following the rules. DMG page 42 would cover any improvised action/attack you'd want to make with a Tenser's floating disc.

For any decision or adjudication, ask yourself, "Is this going to be fun for everyone?" and "Is this going to lead to the creation of an exciting, memorable story?"

DMs: Dungeon Master 101  |  Session Zero  |  How to Adjudicate Actions  |  No Myth Roleplaying  |  5e Monster Index & Encounter Calculator
Players: Players 101  |  11 Ways to Be a Better Roleplayer  |  You Are Not Your Character  |  Pre-Gen D&D 5e PCs

Content I Created: Adventure Scenarios  |  Actual Play Reports  |  Tools  |  Game Transcripts

Follow me on Twitter: @is3rith

Right, it's just a disc that floats a foot above the ground and holds stuff of 250lbs+. Nothing says it can't have in-combat uses, however. 



I'd be interested to hear some of the things your players use the disc for. Rituals seem to get a lot of play in our games but I don't see much in the way of that one in particular.



For example, the first time the ritual was used was a "just because we wanted it to" situation. The players were facing a totally dark room, and lacked a wizard to cast the Light cantrip. (He happened to be busy that week) So the gnome with the Tenser's Floating Disc ritual decided to become a beacon of light based on the flavor text included with the drow power Darkfire. (Yes, a drow has darkvision, but they didn't care, they wanted to make the gnome into an amusing lamp) The gnome also didn't care that this power would give monsters combat advantage, simply because it was funny. So the gnome hopped up on the disc, got lit up, and floated into the room to light a path, while using her telekinesis to push monsters out of her way before they could get her. She basically spent the whole encounter standing on the disc. 

Another example, the gnome has attempted to "scoop" up low-intelligence monsters (like kobolds or beasts) and try to spin them off the disc. 

She has also carted around a halfling rogue on the disc because once the gnome moved away more than 5 squares, the halfling would effectively be pulled along with her by the disc, meaning he shifted without provoking opportunity attack.  
That seems reasonable. The second example (spinner) is on par with a terrain power. So there I'd have a skill check preceding an attack roll to make it happen with interesting failure as a possibility depending on the context.

The last example is probably a slide (forced movement) rather than a shift, but either way it gets past the OA. I could see some players and DMs looking askance at that last one as it's a pure benefit without any cost or tradeoff. I think an Acrobatics check or the like on par with a stunt might be good enough to "balance" it out (with interesting failure as a possibility, of course).

For any decision or adjudication, ask yourself, "Is this going to be fun for everyone?" and "Is this going to lead to the creation of an exciting, memorable story?"

DMs: Dungeon Master 101  |  Session Zero  |  How to Adjudicate Actions  |  No Myth Roleplaying  |  5e Monster Index & Encounter Calculator
Players: Players 101  |  11 Ways to Be a Better Roleplayer  |  You Are Not Your Character  |  Pre-Gen D&D 5e PCs

Content I Created: Adventure Scenarios  |  Actual Play Reports  |  Tools  |  Game Transcripts

Follow me on Twitter: @is3rith

Hmm, not really seeing much in the description that implies much direct use for combat certainly not in an “offensive manner”. Certainly not to allow forced movement or stuff.

Why? Well from the description (page 312 PHB)
It's 3' in diameter, so would takes up most of a 5' square, and it floats 1' off the ground, and moves upto your base speed to be within 5 squares of you if you move more than 5 squares away from it..
- When it moves isn't specified, I think I'd say either at the end of the caster's turn, or last in initiative order for simplicity sate.
Or the caster can choose to move it, as you can move it your speed (aka walking pace) for a move action.
Very pointdly never mentions causing difficult terrain, cover or any form of forced movement.
If it is more than 5 squares from the caster for 2 consecutive rounds then it goes pop.

Also if I remember any maths at all 5' square is an area of 25 square feet, a 3' circle is approx an area of 7 squarefeet, so the disc technically only fills 28% of the square.


So... I'd Extrapolate.

It floats 1' of the ground is and is a smooth disc, so I'd personally say it doesn't count as difficult terrain

It's a knee high disc, not a waist high wall, and so doesn't grant cover. Not even to midgets.

It's a slowly moving disc that can't hurt you, no one really gives a **** if it's behind you, so it doesn't grant flanking or anything.

Although it can carry quite a lot, I imagine that if pushed by pretty much anything vaguely the same size then it'll yield, then try and return.

If you get BODILY THROWN ACROSS THE ROOM IN A BLAST OF THUNDER! Then a smooth disc 1' of the ground isn't going to change much. So does not stop or change any forced movement.

If you end your square in the square you can choose to be on or off the disc. There is still more than enough space in the 5' square not to be on the damn thing and just kick it out of the way.
If the disc moves away with you on it, you can choose to step off it for a free action.

This means:
You could end your move on it, then the caster could move you for a move action. Allowing you to move futher than normal. I'd assume this counted as “walking” for opportunity attacks, but may let you ignore some types of difficult terrain.
- I'm cool with this, caster loses his move action to move someone else. Cool, it's not like he can do this multiple times to move superfast unless he always ends up back in the square with the disc.
... and the disc will try and reach the caster or go pop anyway.

- So technically there is the possibility of being stuck on it if you're stunned or unconscious or dump your dying friend on it and move them to safety... cool.

And yeah you could move explosives or similar with it. Cool.

And nope, none of this is RAW, but I think it's fairly reasonable conclusions.

Rules As Written are rules as they are written.

Rules as they are written might still be contradictory, incomplete, confusing or unbalanced.

The right interpretation of the rules is the one that works for you and your gaming group.

 

A DM's judgement is the final authority in the game.

But if the DM is not running the game for the enjoyment of their players, then why are they running it at all?

Sign In to post comments