the Best of the Best — Retrospective

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Retrospective
Sorcery
Name a card. The next time a spell is cast with that name, counter it.
"It pains me to hear such words, for it means one thing above all else—that you're going to learn the hard way."

IMAGE(http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/1/1c/Spr_4p_389.png)

Wouldn't this be better as an enchantment a la Standstill? And shouldn't it cost less than Nevermore?

Embrace imagination.

Lord of YMtC | Ten Rounds Contest Winner

Solphos – A fan set with a 'combo matters' theme

Fool's Gold – The second set of the Solphos block

I designed it with lightspeed, but I did take Declaration of Naught into consideration. Once again, I found myself wanting to do something different. A sorcery doesn't sit around (a vulnerability), and that gives a more resolute force to the operation. For that reason alone, I've adjusted the casting cost at least equal that of something like Absorb—you can single out a specific spell and guarantee it gets countered, so that kind of security should come with a slightly challenging casting cost.

IMAGE(http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/1/1c/Spr_4p_389.png)

Why red?
Is there a really good reason for making this a sorcery rather than an enchantment? Sure it would be "less vulnerable" if it were a sorcery, but why shouldn't players be given the chance to destroy it with a Ronom Unicorn?

Embrace imagination.

Lord of YMtC | Ten Rounds Contest Winner

Solphos – A fan set with a 'combo matters' theme

Fool's Gold – The second set of the Solphos block

It revolves around the confusion or emotional/mental rebellion of another, and so it envelopes red to be symbollic of that.

@Chinkeeyong   It could, but it all depends on how you develop it. That option goes against my intention to do things differently.

IMAGE(http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/1/1c/Spr_4p_389.png)

Needs to be an enchantment. It's very plausible that this counters something twenty turns down the road. It's ridiculous to expect someone to remember every card you've named with one of these for the entire game with no visual cue. You're not really doing this "differently" as much as you are doing it with intentional awkwardness.

Trying to make everything unanswerable is an aspect of poor design. Just embrace that Magic is a game of interactions.

http://nogoblinsallowed.com/

It revolves around the confusion or emotional/mental rebellion of another, and so it envelopes red to be symbollic of that.

@Chinkeeyong   It could, but it all depends on how you develop it. That option goes against my intention to do things differently.



If you're really trying to make it feel Red based on flavor alone, the mechanics need to match up with the flavor.  Even if you try to imply that it's a very emotionally-charged counterspell, it's still just a counterspell.  And a very White themed counterspell too.  It's very pre-planned, and lays down the rules for your opponent rather than surprising them.  It's more like Meddling Mage or Nevermore.

As far as making it a Sorcery instead of an Enchantment, I think it's interesting as-is.  The memory issues aren't much greater than Meddling Mage.  The only objection I'd have to it is that Instants and Sorceries almost never have effects that span more than one turn.

I think if a Sorcery with this effect was put into a design file for real-life MtG it would get turned into an Enchantment in development just because it fills the traditional role of what an Enchantment does, and the people playing the game aren't going to care one way or the other.  It's interesting for designers because it breaks with tradition, but the average customer isn't going to notice.
The World of Eldangard - a three act M:tG block by Fallingman Eldangard Stormfront Ragnarok
For a long moment, I wanted to name this Retrogression.

IMAGE(http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/1/1c/Spr_4p_389.png)

Agreed with others on the color bit.  It certainly isn't a Red card.  The flavor as presented doesn't even feel that Red.  As for the Sorcery/Enchantment debate, a possible way to have it stay an enchantment is to have it exile itself.  Then it would more likely be in view for visual reference, rather than buried in a graveyard.
Given how common cards are that can copy spells, this seems like it has a high chance of creating a lot of unnecessary memory issues by not being an enchantment.
Everything has been said all ready, certainly not a red card and really should be an enchantment.
IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/c1b8574f03c7cff35d72311f1208599a.jpg?v=90000)
Gotta say I agree with the crowd. Feels more an enchantment type and white than red. But I wonder if you would consider making it to where when they cast named card take X amount of damage or counter the spell?

But on a plus as someone who favors red/blue decks would love to play this if it was made.
Card is monoblue and needs to be an enchantment. If you want to make up for the fact it might be killed, make it a cantrip or a modified cantrip or something.

Like

: Counter target spell named ~ and draw 1 card.  

That way if they try killing it you can respond by cantripping it.  

I bet you wear blue on St. Patrick's Day, and orange the rest of the year.



Rofl.
Is there a really good reason for making this a sorcery rather than an enchantment? Sure it would be "less vulnerable" if it were a sorcery, but why shouldn't players be given the chance to destroy it with a Ronom Unicorn?


why isn't it an enchantment? because they already made that.

 

120.6. Some effects replace card draws.

 

why are you here when NGA exists and is just better


I bet you wear blue on St. Patrick's Day, and orange the rest of the year.



Rofl.

This should clear up any questions you have.





I would tell you to warn a brotha... but you did.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
This should clear up any questions you have.






Wait.....are you z_b!? Or did I just totally misinterpret when he had this as his profile pic for like a month? I never did catch the reason/subject of all the otters changing pictures...
Etiamnunc sto, etiamsi caelum ruat.
And let me just make one thing very, very VERY clear.

That is not a pic of me. *gahoyven*

LIES!!!  :SHIFTY:
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Lol, well not if you were a silly alt like GM =P

Z_b doesn't strike me as an alt kinda guy though, so I should've figured it wasn't his pic. 
Etiamnunc sto, etiamsi caelum ruat.
This should clear up any questions you have.






Wait.....are you z_b!? Or did I just totally misinterpret when he had this as his profile pic for like a month? I never did catch the reason/subject of all the otters changing pictures...


ZB is bald... and homeless, so no, it couldn't be him.
Nut Eating Resident Sociopathic Eye Forker 2346-strong Squirrel leigon of DOOM Squirrel Overlord of the House of Trolls Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber. ~Plato Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy. ~Ernest Benn The Democrats are the party that says government will make you smarter, taller, richer, and remove the crabgrass on your lawn. The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it. ~P.J. O'Rourke "I actually held public office and I left the only way a politician should, in handcuffs." ~ Chael Sonnen It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it! ~ Upton Sinclair Kicked Adam and Eve out of Missouri. Wears flip-flops in church buildings. Official troller of Kolob.
This is not a trapp
My temple name is Elohim. What is your super-secret temple name?
Riddle me this
How can two people with physical bodies make spirit babies?
*Two points about this gag. Firstly, every writer of anything makes typos and I’m no different. It’s “there but for the grace of God go I” rather than schadenfreude here. The second is something called Muphry’s Law (no, it is Muphry’s, not Murphy’s) which states that any piece correcting or laughing at a typo, spelling or grammatical mistake will contain at least one worse than the original being complained of.
Fun Fact: The entire card was designed around the flavor-text, which I thought up and then put into form.

IMAGE(http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/1/1c/Spr_4p_389.png)

Fun Fact: The entire card was designed around the flavor-text, which I thought up and then put into form.



You clearly need more practice in good top-down design.

Dude! Not cool! Let's keep it PG-13 out here. That's just... disturbing. Revolting, even.

Also, top-down? That means the bottom is on top? Sounds kinda interesting, although I was under the impression bottoms and tops typically prefer their position. Well, no harm in switching things around every so often.
Customer Disservice of the House of Trolls Resident Secretly Ron Paul God of Spite and Sloth
Top down means planning out the most visible layers of the card first, the name, flavor and overall feel. The "bottom" of the card is the functional infrastructure, the cost, the role in the set, the mechanical interactions etc. The card is always presented top-down when the players first see it, the choice of whether you plan the top layers or the bottom layers first is a personal preference ( although that choice Is often easy to see in the final result)
The World of Eldangard - a three act M:tG block by Fallingman Eldangard Stormfront Ragnarok
Those are some very unusual euphamisms, but I'm pretty sure we all know what tops and bottoms are.
Customer Disservice of the House of Trolls Resident Secretly Ron Paul God of Spite and Sloth
Top down means planning out the most visible layers of the card first, the name, flavor and overall feel. The "bottom" of the card is the functional infrastructure, the cost, the role in the set, the mechanical interactions etc. The card is always presented top-down when the players first see it, the choice of whether you plan the top layers or the bottom layers first is a personal preference ( although that choice Is often easy to see in the final result)



This is why we have such a hard time seeing eye to eye. I see the entire development process through a different perspective than you. You've got this method and terminology that you've sought to coin as some kind of gold standard, but their concepts I refuse to make my own—and so you get all offended at me because I make statements that seemingly override your own concepts, making you feel as though your entire establishment of ideology is being unraveled and discontinued. In many cases, this would be for the best anyways, because it's flawed reasoning to being with.

For example, there are no layers of design, it's all a single dimension. Each linear element is juxtaposed with the next, and linked together in an perfect circle. Function and flavor go hand-in-hand. If the operation doesn't match the flavor, then the entire design is illogical and worthless. Cost is a technical concept, but that and mechanics are both apart of functionality—so they cosign with the rest of the elements in succession anyways.

The element that sparks inspiration for the design is just the starting point, and that can be any element of the design—but you still have to come full circle to complete it. You can't just make all the functions match up, yet be detracted from the rest of the design. Nor should only the elements of flavor and image link up. It's all got to be linked together—you can't just have a set of elements linked together, yet the two primary "layers" separate from each other.

If one is missing, both are lost. The entire foundation of a fantasy game—is fantasy, and for that reason flavor is the more predominant element in addition to this. It's in the same respect of what I just said, only stand-alone. Without flavor and realism alone, the design is illogical and worthless (functional or not).

In advanced response to any half-witted logic against this statement (like, a design being useful and powerful is equally as important). The nature of the game is competition—so the foundation of development is to create competitive content. Why would you design something that's not good? That's totally contradictory to the purpose of the game—yet a irresponsible designer is more focused on in-game power, and will often create something that's useful but lacks realism. They just want it to be powerful, so it doesn't actually have a realism about it. That's the ultimate sin of design, and it serves as an example that although functionality is important—it's still second to flavor in all respects. 

Trying to say that functionality is more important would be totally illogical (since not creating competitive content defeats the purpose of development in the first place)—and ignores the fact that trying to backseat flavor and realism is unacceptable (because that's the true foundation of fantasy gaming). It should always be the ruling element, not how powerful or useful it is in game. Trying to say otherwise, or still make that statement (that functionality is equally as important), would just be a logic knot I've already undone.

Flavor is aesthetics, and it's easier to ignore because its impact on the game isn't as commanding. When it's left out, it's not as easy to notice unless you're paying attention to detail. Yet if the card isn't powerful or useful in game, it's going to be totally obvious when it plays out. That's what makes it easy for bad designers to ignore, and harder for inexperienced players to recognize—and above all else, it's irresponsible design all the way through (so recognizing this is very important). Otherwise, we end up where we are now—where bad designers can use half-witted reason and logic knots in an attempt to underrate the importance of flavor and exalt the importance of functionality.

 

IMAGE(http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/1/1c/Spr_4p_389.png)

I read it (and that's two minutes I'll never get back, dammit! ), so I'll translate for you:
You're all wrong. I know better than you do; I know I AM better than you... And half of the Design Team, too! And anyone who bothers to criticize my phenomenal überness is a half-wit.
Two... Ah ah ah! Three.. Ah ah ah! Four... Ah ah ah! Six... Ah ah ah!!
88534793 wrote:
Punctuation exists for a reason, and your neglect of the shift key is to the point where Social Services should be involved.
I don't think he's old enough for that yet.
Two... Ah ah ah! Three.. Ah ah ah! Four... Ah ah ah! Six... Ah ah ah!!
88534793 wrote:
Punctuation exists for a reason, and your neglect of the shift key is to the point where Social Services should be involved.
Wait you guys hadn't seen that rant before? It shows up in any of his threads that make it to over four pages at some point. (Unless they get locked first.)

It did show up slightly early in this thread.

You should see his crazy Nissa/Soren pairing rants where he basically calls out Soren as Maro's self insert fanfic character.

He's completely insane, like Grover Norquist, Jeffrey Dahmer, and Van Gogh post drinking and drugs put together level crazy.

I can't explain myself, I'm afraid, Sir, because I'm not myself you see. -Alice

He's completely insane, like Grover Norquist, Jeffrey Dahmer, and Van Gogh post drinking and drugs put together level crazy.

Isn't it a bit insulting comparing them? I mean, what di the drugs ever do to you to deserve that kind of abuse?
Customer Disservice of the House of Trolls Resident Secretly Ron Paul God of Spite and Sloth

-Snip-
And that's why flavor is more important than a card actually working

 



This argument is still no more logical than the last 50 times you've given it.

-Snip-
And that's why flavor is more important than a card actually working

 



This argument is still no more logical than the last 50 times you've given it.

He does have a picture of a Yugioh card, though. I'm leaning in his favor.

/sarcasm
"The real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development." -Albert Einstein Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander Half of the Ambiguously Gay Duo House of Trolls, looking for a partner Wondering what happened to the Star Wars forums?
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Star Wars Minis has a home here http://www.bloomilk.com/ and Star Wars Saga Edition RPG has a home here http://thesagacontinues.createaforum.com/index.php
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141722973 wrote:
And it wasn't ****. It was subjectively concensual sex.
57036828 wrote:
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
75239035 wrote:
I personally don't want him decapitated.
141722973 wrote:
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
58115148 wrote:
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas. (ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)
Wait you guys hadn't seen that rant before? It shows up in any of his threads that make it to over four pages at some point. (Unless they get locked first.)

It did show up slightly early in this thread.

You should see his crazy Nissa/Soren pairing rants where he basically calls out Soren as Maro's self insert fanfic character.

He's completely insane, like Grover Norquist, Jeffrey Dahmer, and Van Gogh post drinking and drugs put together level crazy.

Hey, Vincent Van Gogh was a brilliant man who suffered from a debilitating disease that got in the way of his art rather than inspired it. His art is very much a response to the artistic advances of his period, and he was at the forefront of a revolution in how we treat color, form, and space. He was a gifted writer, a deeply empathetic individual, and even in his darkest moments was still clever and witty.

It is really, really, REALLY not ok to compare him to Kevin. I'm sorry, but the way pop culture has turned Van Gogh into ThE CrAzY ArTiSt has a very real negative impact both upon the mentally ill and upon people who work in creative fields, and it's just not related at all to historical truth.
Coming Soon to the Magic: Expanded Multiverse: FRAGMENTS: A Shards of Alara Anthology
(Click through to view the cover and announcement page)Want to get your work in the Expanded Multiverse? Come join the project! Oh, and check out my blog, Storming the Ivory Tower: making sense of academia, media, and culture twice weekly.
Wait you guys hadn't seen that rant before? It shows up in any of his threads that make it to over four pages at some point. (Unless they get locked first.)

It did show up slightly early in this thread.

You should see his crazy Nissa/Soren pairing rants where he basically calls out Soren as Maro's self insert fanfic character.

He's completely insane, like Grover Norquist, Jeffrey Dahmer, and Van Gogh post drinking and drugs put together level crazy.

Hey, Vincent Van Gogh was a brilliant man who suffered from a debilitating disease that got in the way of his art rather than inspired it. His art is very much a response to the artistic advances of his period, and he was at the forefront of a revolution in how we treat color, form, and space. He was a gifted writer, a deeply empathetic individual, and even in his darkest moments was still clever and witty.

It is really, really, REALLY not ok to compare him to Kevin. I'm sorry, but the way pop culture has turned Van Gogh into ThE CrAzY ArTiSt has a very real negative impact both upon the mentally ill and upon people who work in creative fields, and it's just not related at all to historical truth.

I really liked the DW episode with van Gogh.
"The real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development." -Albert Einstein Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander Half of the Ambiguously Gay Duo House of Trolls, looking for a partner Wondering what happened to the Star Wars forums?
Show
Star Wars Minis has a home here http://www.bloomilk.com/ and Star Wars Saga Edition RPG has a home here http://thesagacontinues.createaforum.com/index.php
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141722973 wrote:
And it wasn't ****. It was subjectively concensual sex.
57036828 wrote:
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
75239035 wrote:
I personally don't want him decapitated.
141722973 wrote:
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
58115148 wrote:
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas. (ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)
...Yeah that was pretty great, actually.

It's honestly the only episode of the modern series that I've seen. I need to watch more, clearly. 
Coming Soon to the Magic: Expanded Multiverse: FRAGMENTS: A Shards of Alara Anthology
(Click through to view the cover and announcement page)Want to get your work in the Expanded Multiverse? Come join the project! Oh, and check out my blog, Storming the Ivory Tower: making sense of academia, media, and culture twice weekly.
I'm going to have to agree with Keeper; Van Gogh was no more crazy than Tycho Brahe, the astronomer who cut off his own nose.

@chia: What's DW? Designing Women?
Two... Ah ah ah! Three.. Ah ah ah! Four... Ah ah ah! Six... Ah ah ah!!
88534793 wrote:
Punctuation exists for a reason, and your neglect of the shift key is to the point where Social Services should be involved.
...Yeah that was pretty great, actually.

It's honestly the only episode of the modern series that I've seen. I need to watch more, clearly. 

Tennant is the best of the three, but Smith is good as well. I like Eccleston a lot but the episodes he's in are hideously low budget.

Edit: I think my favorite of the new series is the episode where the Doctor+Martha go to the end of the unvierse, with Cap'n Jack hanging on; and the couple epsiodes right afterwards. Saying anything more would be spoilers but it was fantastic.
"The real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development." -Albert Einstein Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander Half of the Ambiguously Gay Duo House of Trolls, looking for a partner Wondering what happened to the Star Wars forums?
Show
Star Wars Minis has a home here http://www.bloomilk.com/ and Star Wars Saga Edition RPG has a home here http://thesagacontinues.createaforum.com/index.php
Show
141722973 wrote:
And it wasn't ****. It was subjectively concensual sex.
57036828 wrote:
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
75239035 wrote:
I personally don't want him decapitated.
141722973 wrote:
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
58115148 wrote:
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas. (ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)
I'm going to have to agree with Keeper; Van Gogh was no more crazy than Tycho Brahe, the astronomer who cut off his own nose. @chia: What's DW? Designing Women?

Doctor Who. Here we go.
"The real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development." -Albert Einstein Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander Half of the Ambiguously Gay Duo House of Trolls, looking for a partner Wondering what happened to the Star Wars forums?
Show
Star Wars Minis has a home here http://www.bloomilk.com/ and Star Wars Saga Edition RPG has a home here http://thesagacontinues.createaforum.com/index.php
Show
141722973 wrote:
And it wasn't ****. It was subjectively concensual sex.
57036828 wrote:
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
75239035 wrote:
I personally don't want him decapitated.
141722973 wrote:
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
58115148 wrote:
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas. (ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)
I’ have removed content from this thread because discussion of illegal activities is a violation of the Code of Conduct.

You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_...

Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks.You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively.

If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the Report Post button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
 
it doesn't state that though in the CoC. That's very important and the statement you made wouldn't hold up in a court of law unless the CoC did state that.

IMAGE(http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/1/1c/Spr_4p_389.png)